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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 3:26:30 PM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leslie_JnJs_mom
Call me crazy but isn't that what he does? I have heard him a couple of times on Sean Hannity but his main thing is parenting, unless he did a major change lately.
He also delves into politics. For example, in order to let FOTF keep 501(c)3 status, he made an announcement from his home that he, individually, supported George Bush in the 2004 elections.
The times I've heard FOTF on the radio, I hear him complain about liberals and various ____ agendas several times in a typical broadcast. These are the complaints that the nasty "liberal media, ruled by the anti-God agenda" loves to focus on and "deliberately misconstrue."
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/26/2008 3:46:25 PM
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davemiller7
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"If the rest of the world...................." Does it really matter if the rest of the world doesn't agree with our stance on abortion? We are, after all, a sovereign nation, not beholden to what the EU or any other country or group of countries think. Now if, for instance, France and Germany want to think of abortion as a form of birth control, that's up to them. We as Americans don't need to conform to their ideas and way of life. We earned the right to be sovereign through the blood of many American servicemen. The "world" isn't going to take that away from us unless we, as weak-kneed "let's all just get along" types give away our rights and ideals. And that is exactly what I'm reading, by a few, here in this thread.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Which, to bring it all the way back to the OP, is the point that Mr. Dobson misses in Obama's speech. In his speech, he says right up front that it's ok to take a position based on your faith. But, he continues, you need to express that opinion in a way that is convincing to a person of a different (or no) faith if you wish to be effective. It's not heresy - it's just being practical. If the rest of the world just doesn't think of it as murder, regardless of how preposterous that may seem to you, dancing up and down on the "murder soapbox" isn't a productive activity unless you're just out to get some good exercise.
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/26/2008 3:52:53 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2129
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Hey Dave,
Sorry - probably didn't say that exactly right.
I had intended my point to be that if you want to make legislative progress and move the country in a certain direction, we have to be able to make our argument in a way that other people here are likely to be able to get their heads around. Didn't mean that to say we're obligated to conform to non-US thoughts and ideas.
Since we live in a society that is very diverse, we have to use language and rationale that isn't restricted to the evangelical universe.
Within the evangelical universe, of course, we're free to use our own language and rationale as we understand it.
< Message edited by GroupW -- 6/26/2008 3:59:03 PM >
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 3:56:18 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
Posts: 887
Joined: 9/6/2007
From: SW Missouri
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I knew he supported George Bush in 04 but I thought that he returned to family programing. I do not get to listen alot but when I do it is usually somthing for parents. The last one was for moms of preschoolers which is me.
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leslie_JnJs_mom
Call me crazy but isn't that what he does? I have heard him a couple of times on Sean Hannity but his main thing is parenting, unless he did a major change lately.
He also delves into politics. For example, in order to let FOTF keep 501(c)3 status, he made an announcement from his home that he, individually, supported George Bush in the 2004 elections.
The times I've heard FOTF on the radio, I hear him complain about liberals and various ____ agendas several times in a typical broadcast. These are the complaints that the nasty "liberal media, ruled by the anti-God agenda" loves to focus on and "deliberately misconstrue."
_____________________________
<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 4:06:46 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leslie_JnJs_mom
I knew he supported George Bush in 04 but I thought that he returned to family programing.
LOL - there are many who wish that were true!
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/26/2008 4:09:50 PM
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davemiller7
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OK, apology accepted. Glad we got that misunderstanding cleared up. We are left with a real dilemma, though. If we have to incorporate every group's opinions into our laws, we're never going to get anything accomplished, no matter who is in the White House. We need to have a good foundation on which to base our laws. If it isn't on Christian principles, then I fear we're on a slippery slope.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Hey Dave,
Sorry - probably didn't say that exactly right.
I had intended my point to be that if you want to make legislative progress and move the country in a certain direction, we have to be able to make our argument in a way that other people here are likely to be able to get their heads around. Didn't mean that to say we're obligated to conform to non-US thoughts and ideas.
Since we live in a society that is very diverse, we have to use language and rationale that isn't restricted to the evangelical universe.
Within the evangelical universe, of course, we're free to use our own language and rationale as we understand it.
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 4:10:50 PM
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ElmerFishpaw
Posts: 140
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The "flying saucers took me to another planet one night" people are nutty like Dobson, but I do not HATE them.
Nut means nut ... that is all.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
Disagreement with someone like Dobson doesn't mean hatred. I mean there is a difference.
Oh, so words like "nut" and other degrogatory terms found in these threads just mean "disagreement"?
Something tells me the left can express themselves better than that.....
_____________________________
"Aurora Borealis is Latin for flying saucer headlights"
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/26/2008 4:16:41 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2129
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
OK, apology accepted. Glad we got that misunderstanding cleared up. We are left with a real dilemma, though. If we have to incorporate every group's opinions into our laws, we're never going to get anything accomplished, no matter who is in the White House. We need to have a good foundation on which to base our laws. If it isn't on Christian principles, then I fear we're on a slippery slope.
-Dave
I hear you on that. It's a huge balancing act, though. Obviously, living in a democratic republic that's very diverse, no one group can just have it's way on everything. To some degree, we DO have to allow for everyone's opinions.
Yet, there are going to be issues that one group or another just can't live with. I'm not saying that we should back off on things that we've decided we can't live with, just that when you choose to enter the public arena to duke it out on that issue, the most productive path is to be able to explain and defend it using language and logic that is independent of your faith and accessible and persuasive to a person of a different background and belief system.
I think that was the point of Obama's speech - it's stupid to think you have to leave your faith at the door when you enter the public arena. It's also stupid to pursue policy objectives by using ONLY the logic, literature, and language that are dominant within your faith but not understood or assented to outside it.
< Message edited by GroupW -- 6/26/2008 4:24:59 PM >
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 4:40:01 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2200
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quote:
The "flying saucers took me to another planet one night" people are nutty like Dobson, but I do not HATE them.
Nut means nut ... that is all
Okay, and since when did the idea of championing traditional family values, and looking out for the welfare of our children and speaking out against agendas by certain groups that would harm them....since when did that become "nutty"?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/26/2008 4:52:13 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3807
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
I think virtually everyone here understands that all too well. What so many fail to understand is that screaming "MURDERER!" at these people is not making the point and it's all to reminiscent of the nutjobs that went around bombing abortion clinics in the not too distant past. We can't act like nutballs if we don't want to be associated with nutballs.
Many here DON'T think its murder...
John
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 4:53:35 PM
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ElmerFishpaw
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He is nutty to me anyways....not to you I guess, in the people he associates with...I mean come on, Ted Haggard?, in order to "cure" him or "deliver" him from gayness? His thinking that gay marriage will destroy marriage? (bad marriages destroy marriage, not two people of the same sex who love each other and are commited.....that is another thread). He borders or is in paranoia, of course I'm no dime store shrink like most people here, just my opinion, but paranoia to me is nutty.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
The "flying saucers took me to another planet one night" people are nutty like Dobson, but I do not HATE them.
Nut means nut ... that is all
Okay, and since when did the idea of championing traditional family values, and looking out for the welfare of our children and speaking out against agendas by certain groups that would harm them....since when did that become "nutty"?
_____________________________
"Aurora Borealis is Latin for flying saucer headlights"
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 4:57:43 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3807
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
Oh, so words like "nut" and other degrogatory terms found in these threads just mean "disagreement"? Something tells me the left can express themselves better than that.....
Tafkam - If there were a zoo with examples of classic political ideologues in them, you'd be a perfect candidate for the pen marked "Kneejerk Right-Wing Conservative" vis-a-vis your apparent belief that anyone who disagrees with your politics must be a gutter snipe lefty.
American politics, as a whole, is a very broad spectrum.
Only zealots (left or right) maintain their own politics along staunch ideological lines with no exceptions for a middle ground or the other side of the political ballyard (i.e. "Law & Order" Republicans like Tom Ridge and Rudy Guliani being pro-choice on abortion rights).
Oh, and for the record: Dobson is indeed a nutbag.
I would love to hear what is consider the "middle ground" regarding abortion... Only 1750 a day and not the usual 3500 murdered in the womb?
John
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/26/2008 5:01:29 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
If its such a rightious thing then maybe Obama's mom should have considered the proceedure.
Thanks
RC
I hope I'm not the only one that considers this offensive. I don't think comments like this reflect well on Christians, regardless of what we believe about Mr. Obama.
What is the truth is that Obama supports the murder of unborn children... That's not up for debate, it's a fact... If a person who supports the murder of 3500 unborn children daily gets hit by a bus I for one will not be losing any sleep over it...
John
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/26/2008 5:07:53 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
If its such a rightious thing then maybe Obama's mom should have considered the proceedure.
Thanks
RC
I hope I'm not the only one that considers this offensive. I don't think comments like this reflect well on Christians, regardless of what we believe about Mr. Obama.
What is the truth is that Obama supports the murder of unborn children... That's not up for debate, it's a fact... If a person who supports the murder of 3500 unborn children daily gets hit by a bus I for one will not be losing any sleep over it...
John
Fine, but let's not adopt the language of violence in order to fight violence. That does noone any good.
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 5:14:54 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2200
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quote:
not to you I guess, in the people he associates with...I mean come on, Ted Haggard?, in order to "cure" him or "deliver" him from gayness? His thinking that gay marriage will destroy marriage?
Well, as a Christian I would hope you would also pray that God would deliver Ted Haggard from the abomination known as homosexuality.
Are you saying that Scripture is "nutty" because it condemns this lifestyle?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 5:32:26 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1068
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
If a person who supports the murder of 3500 unborn children daily gets hit by a bus I for one will not be losing any sleep over it...
Where is the data or source to support this number (e.g. 3500 abortions in America daily)?
quote:
If a person who supports the murder of 3500 unborn children daily gets hit by a bus I for one will not be losing any sleep over it...
So the lives of American citizens who are pro-life are more important to you than those who support basic abortion rights (regardless of their political stripe)?
< Message edited by todd_t -- 6/26/2008 5:45:39 PM >
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 5:34:27 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
Well, as a Christian I would hope you would also pray that God would deliver Ted Haggard from the abomination known as homosexuality.
But isn't homosexuality a choice? If so, it would seem that Haggard knew exactly what he was doing when he consciously began a long-term relationship with a male escort.
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 5:37:35 PM
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ElmerFishpaw
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The way some people interpret the scripture is nutty.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
not to you I guess, in the people he associates with...I mean come on, Ted Haggard?, in order to "cure" him or "deliver" him from gayness? His thinking that gay marriage will destroy marriage?
Well, as a Christian I would hope you would also pray that God would deliver Ted Haggard from the abomination known as homosexuality.
Are you saying that Scripture is "nutty" because it condemns this lifestyle?
_____________________________
"Aurora Borealis is Latin for flying saucer headlights"
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/26/2008 5:39:30 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1068
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quote:
I hope I'm not the only one that considers this offensive. I don't think comments like this reflect well on Christians, regardless of what we believe about Mr. Obama.
No, you're not alone.
It is (to put it mildly) a crude comment not unlike Ralph Nader accusing Obama of trying to "talk white" during his interview with the Rocky Mountain News this week.
But then again, maybe I'm way off-base here, and should start wishing death on those I disagree with politically.
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 5:47:38 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5842
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Where is the data or source to support this number (e.g. 3500 abortions in America daily)?
You're right, 1.28 million a year might be conservative. Thanks for pointing that out.
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 5:53:34 PM
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hnt
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Quite frankly, if Dobson wants to take a stand then FINE....but he should at least listen to what the man says before saying things. He allowed his ego to get into it. I'm not a big fan of Obama, but at least I heard what he said...and then what Dobson said...and wondered HOW the heck did he come up with that conclusion??
Obama mentioned if we kick all of the 'non' believers out of the country which form of Christianity would be running it. Would it be Dobson or Sharpton form of christianity.
Personally, I could see that as a war as well! Although I think Dobson would have a better chance than Sharpton! They certainly wouldn't be the only ones throwing their hats into that race! I can't even imagine the chaos that would cause! He was using their names as an example for his opinion.
Did Dobson grasp this? Apparently not.
Dobson offended because he never said we should kick people out of the country.
Dobson was offended because he didn't know WHERE he came up with that idea.
Dobson is offended because he was compared to a racist.
Dobson says we can't be compared because he is a minister, and Dobson is not.
The list goes on.......
The point is Obama never said that to begin with! Dobson twisted it enough to make it seem like an attack.
That was just ONE of the first points that he did this to. If he doesn't like Obama he needs to come up with something a bit better than comments like that if he wants to be taken seriously. He does come across as kind of nutty when he does that.
Does he do good for his opinions and ministry with families? I'm sure he does in alot of realms. When it comes to things like this maybe he needs to listen to what he is being said on ALL fronts before making becoming offended, and feeling attack.
People aren't going to listen to him WHEN he does have a point if he continues!
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 6:14:29 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1672
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ElmerFishpaw
The "flying saucers took me to another planet one night" people are nutty like Dobson, but I do not HATE them.
Nut means nut ... that is all.
Hey. I take offense to that. I WAS taken to another planet. The little green men on this planet all followed different religions, but they all were able to sway each other with their OWN religious arguments. The Paedians were able to convince the Xurogs, Quornians, and Baftars that since Paeda formed Sirius at 11:50 PM, all Flurging should stop for precisely three minutes at that time every day. This caused the Xurogs some serious problems with their temple because Flurging means putting out fires caused by their Red giant star, and the Xurog temple is made of carbon.
The Xurogs have also been pushing for the view that since Xuros ordered that all non-Xurogs should be thrown into Beetlejuice, this should be carried out, and many people are supporting this move as well.
If only things could work like they did in Betelejuice's planetary system...
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 6/26/2008 6:22:41 PM >
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 6:21:22 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
Posts: 887
Joined: 9/6/2007
From: SW Missouri
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Okay, and since when did the idea of championing traditional family values, and looking out for the welfare of our children and speaking out against agendas by certain groups that would harm them....since when did that become "nutty"?
Oh boy I guess that means I am a nut
_____________________________
<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 6:27:10 PM
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ElmerFishpaw
Posts: 140
Joined: 7/18/2007
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Xurogs were never know for quality construction. They do what they can with the abundance of carbon and now they have to suffer for it. The beings which took me had 9 arms, tough thing waving bye bye.
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: ElmerFishpaw
The "flying saucers took me to another planet one night" people are nutty like Dobson, but I do not HATE them.
Nut means nut ... that is all.
Hey. I take offense to that. I WAS taken to another planet. The little green men on this planet all followed different religions, but they all were able to sway each other with their OWN religious arguments. The Paedians were able to convince the Xurogs, Quornians, and Baftars that since Paeda formed Sirius at 11:50 PM, all Flurging should stop for precisely three minutes at that time every day. This caused the Xurogs some serious problems with their temple because Flurging means putting out fires caused by their Red giant star, and the Xurog temple is made of carbon.
The Xurogs have also been pushing for the view that since Xuros ordered that all non-Xurogs should be thrown into Beetlejuice, this should be carried out, and many people are supporting this move as well.
If only things could work like they did in Betelejuice's planetary system...
_____________________________
"Aurora Borealis is Latin for flying saucer headlights"
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/26/2008 7:09:09 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2129
Joined: 11/16/2007
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As in all politics, everything eventually drifts into absurdity....
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