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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/6/2008 9:29:57 PM
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colliefan
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There is so much apostacy on the EC USA's web site it is difficult to fit it all into a single post. Let me give it a try. I will italize items from their site. Followed by my comments. No where on the site is the Thirty Nine Articles of the Anglican faith mentioned which is the foundational document of the Anglican Church. No wonder since the EC USA is a apostate church!
The beauty of the Episcopal tradition is that it is open to questions and new possibilities, as well as ancient teachings. Imagine a spiritual practice that is both grounded in tradition and open to new possibilities.
And what are these possibilities? What about being grounded in Scripture AND tradition
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Baptism is the sacrament whereby people become Christians, and thereby members of the Church
Q: What is Holy Baptism?
A: Holy Baptism is the sacrament by which God adopts us as his children and makes us members of Christ's Body, the Church, and inheritors of the kingdom of God.
No people become Christians bu accepting Christ as savior.
*************************************************************
Q: What are the Holy Scriptures?
A: The Holy Scriptures, commonly called the Bible, are the books of the Old and New Testaments; other books, called the Apocrypha, are often included in the Bible.
Q: What is the Apocrypha?
A: The Apocrypha is a collection of additional books written by people of the Old Covenant and used in the Christian Church.
The Thrity-nine articles deny the authority of the Apocrapha. Also, no mention of II Tim 3:16
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Christians may disagree regularly, however, on how to interpret or apply what the Bible says
The support of homosexuality is given by the above statement. No where does it mention the supremacy of the scriptures in the life of a Christian.
Q: Why then do we live apart from God and out of harmony with creation?
A: From the beginning, human beings have misused their freedom and made wrong choices.
No mention of sin as an offense against a Holy God. In the section of “Who is Jesus to You” no one mentions Jesus is his/her savior in that he died for his/her sins. No mention as a sinless sacrifice. No where does it mention his second coming
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: What does this mean?
A: This means that the universe is good, that it is the work of a single loving God who creates, sustains, and directs it.
No, the universe is also in a fallen state.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/6/2008 9:31:05 PM
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colliefan
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Facedown,
You still have not answered my questions from a previous post
cf
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/6/2008 9:44:49 PM
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prophet
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quote:
The beauty of the Episcopal tradition is that it is open to questions and new possibilities, as well as ancient teachings. Imagine a spiritual practice that is both grounded in tradition and open to new possibilities.
Isnt this emergent traits? 
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/6/2008 10:38:17 PM
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Ps103
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Rowan's LATEST
There is no hope. None.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/6/2008 10:51:07 PM
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prophet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
Rowan's LATEST
There is no hope. None.
Ps
Those letters were 8 years ago.... 
Maybe he will repent?
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/6/2008 10:53:24 PM
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Ps103
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Ya, I know he wrote them eight years ago, but no one but the woman he was writing to saw them till now.
Don't know why it surprised me...
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/7/2008 6:27:04 AM
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facedown
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prophet
if you beleive what i wrote is somehow in contrast to that which is written n scriptures, please feel free to point that out.
colliefan
i really wish you'd reference exactly where your quoting from.
interesting thing about your comments; though, is that it's like your really having to try and find something to say. "oh my god! they said on their websie that humans, from the very beginning have messed up and live apart from God! - they are going straight to hell!"
i mean seriously, i know you have your beefs. if you want me to comment on them, that's fine. but i need some source material here, not just your observation. and again, here's the link to the catechism.
ps103
greetings. i'm not certain an article that tries to cite something 8 years ago is worthy of suggesting "no hope".
and have the entire letters been made public? or just snippets?
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/7/2008 3:46:41 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
colliefan
i really wish you'd reference exactly where your quoting from.
Didn't you read my post that indicated the text in italics was from the EC USA's web site? You still have not answered my questions such as these
So homosexuality is applaued and scripture dengrated. This is the position of the ECUSA. How do you support teaching that "Christianity must change or die. That Chiristianity and Islam are but two paths to the same god
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/7/2008 3:50:51 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
oh my god! they said on their websie that humans, from the very beginning have messed up and live apart from God! - they are going straight to hell!"
Which is the gospel truth for those who reject Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/7/2008 8:25:46 PM
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prophet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
prophet
if you beleive what i wrote is somehow in contrast to that which is written n scriptures, please feel free to point that out.
Your quote:
quote:
rather, love isn't self-seeking, it actually empties itself of everything in pursuit of the other. love also isn't provoked, nor does it take account a wrong suffered - it doesn't keep track of them. she isn't ever demanding, and doesn't ever stop being patient, never stops believing, never stops hoping - never gives up. and it never comes to an.......
i think i have shown you... just a part of your emergent thinking...to be pluralsitic in the name of 'love'
John 3: 19-20......
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. F9 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
HE is a Holy God, not just lovely....
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/7/2008 8:29:46 PM
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colliefan
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From the 39 Articles of Faith
XVIII. Of obtaining eternal Salvation only by the Name of Christ.
They also are to be had accursed that presume to say, That every man shall be saved by the Law or Sect which he professeth, so that he be diligent to frame his life according to that Law, and the light of Nature. For Holy Scripture doth set out unto us only the Name of Jesus Christ, whereby men must be saved
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/7/2008 9:15:48 PM
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facedown
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colliefan
yes, i've read your posts. i noticed the italics, and reconginzed it from the site. and i've addressed your questions as being insufficient - please be more specific. find something from the site - or any epsicopal church site that you have a specific issue with regarding homosexuality, or that "christianity and islam are two but two paths to the same god". also, please go to the site and do some digging into the last general convention. again - i need something with context, and clearly referenced - not just your observations.
the "gospel truth" is that folks who say that from the very beginning, people have messed up and live apart from god - the folks who say this are going to hell? trying to follow your remark here, which doesn't seem too clear.
prophet
you believe that that specific quote is "anti-scripture"?
or do you think that one passage is all there is? have i ever suggested that god is not "holy"?
colliefan
please feel free to post something specific from the creeds you believe to be contrary to the word of god, which is, by the way our confession of faith (nicene and apostles). or, feel free to browse through http://www.episcopalchurch.org/visitors_10898_ENG_HTM.htm and do the same.
and again, i guess we're looking for something that is soooo deplorable, it makes you want to spit on us anglicans, and condemn us to hell.
pax
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/7/2008 9:45:24 PM
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prophet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
prophet
you believe that that specific quote is "anti-scripture"?
or do you think that one passage is all there is? have i ever suggested that god is not "holy"?
Its anti scripture when the whole Truth is not meted out. In your writings, you are solely immersed in a psuedo kinda love not decsribed in scriptures.
Will homosexuals inherit the kingdom of God?
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/7/2008 9:47:20 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
and again, i guess we're looking for something that is soooo deplorable, it makes you want to spit on us anglicans, and condemn us to hell.
If you haven't noticed I go to a church that is part of the Anglican Mission in the Americas
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/7/2008 9:54:02 PM
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colliefan
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Facedown,
You still have not answered my question if you believe that Spong's thesis that "Christianity Must Change or Die" is correct.
You still have not answered my question if the ordination of Robinson, a practicing homosexual as a bishop in the EC USA is correct.
You still have not answred my questions about from the EC USAs web site.
I will see if I can find the precise quote from Schorri
Time mag interview
look for what she says about Jesus being the only way to heaven
more apostacy
< Message edited by colliefan -- 8/7/2008 10:21:19 PM >
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/8/2008 5:33:11 AM
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facedown
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colliefan
i have attempted to answer your question(s) - of course most of these answers have been how I am unable to answer them in their present form - asking for more context, and source material to work off of. i've also addressed the fact that i'm not in a position to comment a whole lot on spong - who by the way, does not represent the whole of ecusa or the ac.
i don't know what his thesis entails, and at this point, i could care less. are you aware of what the present status is on the ordination of deacons, priests, and bishops? what questions from ecusa's website?
as written i don't have a whole lot of issue with the statement from time magazine, and the reason is, because it requires one to deduce a conclusion one way or the other. regarding the other link, looks like the author had some decent things to say, though i admit, i didn't read the whole thing.
the anglican communion is pretty wide - from ultra radical conservatives to ultra radical liberals (if i can use those terms) to every where in between, and sure enough in the pews there are folks even outside those labels. but you'll find, should you maybe visit a local parish or two, that most of the folks you'll encounter are somewhere in the middle - full affirmation of the creeds, and like most of us, with a lot of questions, and a whole lot of room for God's grace.
we typically don't understand that 'salvation' is found/kept/verified by making sure that on a 100 multiple question test, one must answer all 100 correctly. fidelity (faith/faithfullness) isn't bound in our words or conceptions.
rather, we bond with each other in unity through the creeds and a deep desire to "go in peace, to love and serve the LORD, thanks be to god, hallelujah"
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/8/2008 6:03:48 AM
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facedown
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prophet
it's anti-scripture when the whole truth is not meted out? great, then what you've written is anti-scripture. in fact, what everyone writes is anti-scripture then.
you see, what happens is, we will read what another says, and because of our pre-conceptions and interpretations, will assume what another means. if we see certain key-words, we pounce as hard as we can, trying to denounce the other. take, for example the specific quote:
"...rather, love isn't self-seeking, it actually empties itself of everything in pursuit of the other. love also isn't provoked, nor does it take account a wrong suffered - it doesn't keep track of them. she isn't ever demanding, and doesn't ever stop being patient, never stops believing, never stops hoping - never gives up. and it never comes to an......."
an obvious paraphrase of some pauline passages. but somehow in this, you see or conceptualize a meaning that demands god isn't holy, or "set-apart". however, if one contemplates on what this means, there could be nothing more holy, and nothing more set apart, nothing so astounding that it is unapproachable, and still this love walked among us, taught us, suffered and died for us, rose from the dead and ascended and is reconcilling the whole world.
and this love, it compels us, because we are so convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. and he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for him. so, there is no worldly point of view to regard anyone. so, when i think of your last question, i find it an insufficient one (at best) - why even ask that question? is this to point out one thing? or maybe to suggest that all other forms of contact, and love is okay? or maybe it's just to validate oneself.
here's what i understand jesus to say about your question: you think you've known me, but all this time, because of you're pride, you have not. while you said to me "yes sir" you didn't go, and those who you demanded were apart from me, because you believed to have said "no sir" to me, actually did go. you see, many of those who stood off at a distance, shunned by you as robbers, evildoers, adulterers, and the like, all those who you boldly declared you were not like, it was some of those who would not even look up to me, but simply desired mercy who have been justified.
collifan
no, i haven't noticed (post 114). i'm not sure if i really dig the "mission in america" for a variety of reasons. and i don't write all of this to somehow take away what you and your community has gone through, nor to attempt to say that you all have no idea what love is. so please don't take it in that way. i totally understand the frusteration, rage, or anger. i do wish that in the past that dialoge had been made much easier for all to actually be heard. things are what they are now; however. and the best we can do is to try to continue to reconcile ourselves to one another, even as we are with god. loving our neighbors as ourselves, not counting trespasses, but forgiving them, even as god forgives ours.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/8/2008 4:58:27 PM
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colliefan
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Facedown,
I have given repeated evidence of where the EC USA violates Scripture and the 39 Articles of Faith on which the church is based. The way that church is currently structed and government makes it little different from that of the Unitarian Universalist Church. Both deny that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. For me the following describes the EC USA
Rev 3:1 - 6 (ESV) 1“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. 3Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you. 4Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. 6He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/8/2008 8:30:42 PM
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prophet
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FaceD
Will homosexuals inherit the kingdom of God?
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/8/2008 8:46:02 PM
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colliefan
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facedown,
In light of the EC USA's liberal drift away from scipture and adherance to the doctrine in the 38 Articles how to you handle these verses:
2 Cor 6:14 - 15 (ESV) 14Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15What accord has Christ with Belial?£ Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
1 Tim 6:3 - 4 (ESV) 3If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound£ words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 4he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions,
Titus 1:9 (ESV) 9He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound£ doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/9/2008 1:14:02 PM
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facedown
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colliefan
no. you've given some pretty vague observations without a whole lot of meat.
we, just as with any other tribe in the anglican community use the bcp.
prophet
did i not already address that question?
collifefan
the more important question, is how we do authentically incarnate our faith and our role in the reconcilliation of the world in light of the entirty of scripture, not just one selction or another. certainly, this is a question we must constantly be asking of ourselves. kind of like the teaching of the samaritan who helped another in need - there was (and is) questions regarding this very question of "what do we do?" - folks had many instructions to "stay clean" at the same time as having instructions to "help those in need". in this story, the priest and levite chose to follow the "keep clean" instructions at the sake of the "help those in need" instructions. then, along comes this outsider, one who the hebrews prayed god would smite off the face of the earth, and "helped those in need".
and then, jesus turns the question upside down (originally 'who is my neighbor') and asks "who was the neighbor?" in so doing, jesus aligns the listner (original, as well as you and i) to the one who was half dead in need of rescue/saving/healing/etc. truly profound, especially in light of who had a hand in the redemptive action.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/9/2008 1:31:15 PM
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facedown
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collifan
out of curiosity, Anglican Mission in the Americas, uses what prayer book and what chatechism?
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/9/2008 1:37:49 PM
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colliefan
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facedown,
You are dancing all around and have not answered my questions! Why does the EC-USA go against scripture and church doctrine! Love that isn't based on scripture is just "sloppy agape."
How can one be in a position of authority in the church and deny that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven? How cam one be in the position of authority and say we come to salvation by our experiences. How can one be in a position of authority and be in a lifestyle condemed by scriptue?
I have given you specific examples of where the EC-USA in in violation of both Scripture and Church doctrine. Yet you continue to claim that we must come together in love and ignore the differences. A church that is not built on the gospel cannot stand against the winds that is bound to come in the following years?
What is your view of scripture? What is your view of the thirty-nine articles of faith?
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/9/2008 1:42:26 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
collifan
out of curiosity, Anglican Mission in the Americas, uses what prayer book and what chatechism?
Parishes differ widely. Some are more formal, mine is informal in the use of vestments and things such as a prayer book. Our order of service is printed in a bulletin. Use the Apostles Creed 99% of the time. Sometimes use the Nicene Creed.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 8/9/2008 1:47:27 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
and then, jesus turns the question upside down (originally 'who is my neighbor') and asks "who was the neighbor?" in so doing, jesus aligns the listner (original, as well as you and i) to the one who was half dead in need of rescue/saving/healing/etc. truly profound, especially in light of who had a hand in the redemptive action.
Neither had any help in the sense of a redemptive action. Jesus Christ was/is the only one who can redeem us from our sins. We act because we have been redeemed from the bondage of our sins. What you are stating is the lie of liberation theology.
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