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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/6/2008 10:01:44 PM
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Marcus.
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Here's another strike against the liberal Anglican bishops.
Anglican bishops in secret Vatican summit
By Jonathan Wynne-Jones, Religious Affairs Correspondent
Last Updated: 1:33PM BST 06/07/2008
They met senior advisers of the Pope in an attempt to build closer ties with the Roman Catholic Church, The Sunday Telegraph has learnt.
Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, was not told of the talks and the disclosure will be a fresh blow to his efforts to prevent a major split in the Church of England.
In highly confidential discussions, a group of conservative bishops expressed their dismay at the liberal direction of the Church of England and their fear for its future.
Story continues
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/8/2008 9:26:11 AM
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Marcus.
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Church of England to consider introducing 'super-bishops' to avert crisis over women
Riazat Butt, religious affairs correspondent
The Guardian, Monday July 7, 2008
The Church of England will today consider a plan to create a new tier of clergy in an attempt to avert a split over women bishops.
The plan for "super-bishops", who will oversee parishes opposed to women bishops, is one of several proposals to be discussed at a meeting today of the Church of England's national assembly, the General Synod, taking place in York.
More than one thousand traditionalist clergy have threatened to leave the Church of England, with some demanding men-clergy only churches or spiritual "gender havens".
Story Continues
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/9/2008 8:32:06 PM
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9drtr
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This story, unfortunately, displays two problems with the Anglican Church at this point: the leadership doesn't get the problem, and the conservatives aren't really united.
The problem isn't over female clergy, but a whole host of issues, including female clergy.
We, the conservatives, have very different values from each other. While we all despise what the liberals have done to the Church, we don't by any means agree with each other. Personally, I have no problem with female clergy, and the congregation I belong to would not join a group of Anglicans completely opposed to female clergy.
The liberal bishops are trying to divide their opposition. And it will work.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/9/2008 9:10:31 PM
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prophet
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Its so sad to see the AC disintegrate into politicking mass of people. 
Forsaking Truth for power .....
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/14/2008 11:36:34 AM
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Marcus.
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Jul 10, 2008 10:38 | Updated Jul 14, 2008 9:58
Keeping the communion holy
By LELA GILBERT
ext week marks the beginning of the Lambeth Conference, an international gathering of Anglican bishops held in Britain every 10 years. It is hosted by the archbishop of Canterbury, currently Rowan Williams, head of the worldwide Anglican Communion. This year, however, the Lambeth Conference was pre-empted by a historic and controversial gathering in Jerusalem. The Global Anglican Future Conference (GAFCON), held at Jerusalem's Ramada Renaissance Hotel from June 22-29, brought together 1,148 orthodox Anglican lay and clergy participants, including 291 bishops representing millions of conservative Anglican Christians, many of them African.
In his opening remarks at GAFCON, the outspoken archbishop of Nigeria, Peter Akinola, described the necessity for such a gathering. "We have found ourselves in a world in which Anglican leaders hold onto a form of religion but consistently deny its power. We have a situation in which some members of the Anglican family think they are so superior to all others that they are above the law, they can do whatever they please with impunity.
"As a communion we have been unable to exercise discipline. In the face of global suspicion of the links of Islam with terrorism, Lambeth Palace [official residence of archbishop of Canterbury] is making misleading statements about the Islamic law, Shari'a, to the point that even secular leaders are now calling us to order! We can no longer trust where some of our communion leaders are taking us."
Story Continues
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/14/2008 3:58:05 PM
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colliefan
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The rushing water is flowing faster and the roar of the falls is getting louder. I do not see how a split can be avoided.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/14/2008 4:01:08 PM
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Marcus.
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It may be necessary to prevent the apostacy from completely over taking the Church.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/14/2008 8:31:07 PM
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prophet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
It may be necessary to prevent the apostacy from completely over taking the Church.
Apostasy has already taken over the AC. Those who are maintaining that label are just living self deception becuase AC will always be tied to Canterbury which is already in apostasy.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/14/2008 9:33:11 PM
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Marcus.
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Idk. There seems to be some Churches within the AC that still hold to orthodox belief but they seem to be ready to leave, if they haven't already.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/14/2008 10:21:56 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
becuase AC will always be tied to Canterbury which is already in apostasy.
Don't say always. When the break comes the center probably will be somewhere in Africa.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/14/2008 10:33:14 PM
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prophet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
becuase AC will always be tied to Canterbury which is already in apostasy.
Don't say always. When the break comes the center probably will be somewhere in Africa.
CollieF
The AC is tied to Canterbury as tradition. Its no use calling yrself Anglican just for the sake of that. Its self deluding. Its like calling yrself an American without yr recognition of your flag.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/15/2008 12:17:15 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
The AC is tied to Canterbury as tradition. Its no use calling yrself Anglican just for the sake of that. Its self deluding. Its like calling yrself an American without yr recognition of your flag.
Tradition for its own sake is dead. The split is over the essencials of Scripture and what will come from it is a stronger church. The half that values tradition over scripture will slowly die.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/15/2008 5:07:03 PM
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amosgirl
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I am a Christian first, an evangelical second and an anglican third. I attend the closest bible-believing church to my home which happens to be anglican. It's a 10 minute walk away - I can see it from my window as I type this post. I live in an isolated rural area.
I don't think many Americans appreciate just how conservative evangelical many British Anglicans are.
I went to a conference called New Word Alive back in April which had been organised by a group of mainly Anglican church leaders. The keynote speakers were John Piper and Don Carson who were more than happy to share fellowship with their Anglican brothers.
There are many of us who would feel much more comfortable attending a PCA, Lutheran (Missouri Synod) or even a Southern Baptist Church than darkening the door of an Episcopal Church in the USA.
The 39 Articles of the Church of England could give any Baptist Church a run for its money in terms of hardline doctrine that doesn't pull its punches.
I guess we are the English descendants of the non-separatist puritans who followed the separatist pilgrims to the US Colonies. It's not that we don't believe in separation from heresy: any decent evangelical clergyman will protect his pulpit with an iron rod. It's just that we don't necessarily believe we have to start a new denomination. After all, the Church of England is not really a denomination any more than the Church in Ephesus was a denomination. This is our national church and if we leave it we're leaving it in the hands of heretics - and our nation in an even worse spiritual state than it already is.
The difficulty with current developments is the way it pervades the whole church. When women's ordination was passed in 1992, people were free to move to a church which had a male clergyman which may only involve an additional couple of minutes in the car. OTOH if the next Bishop of Carlisle is female then I'm stranded. I'd have a couple of hours' drive before I could be under the authority of a male bishop.
The same also goes for clergymen. They will either have to transfer to a church in a different diocese or submit - potentially against their conscience - to the authority of a female bishop.
What was voted down last week was safeguards which would have protected clergymen from being left in this awkward situation.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/15/2008 5:12:16 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
The 39 Articles of the Church of England could give any Baptist Church a run for its money in terms of hardline doctrine that doesn't pull its punches.
This document was one of the reasons I made the move to my current church.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/15/2008 7:20:40 PM
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Marcus.
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The Scripture outlines the requirements for priests and bishops. It's a black and white issue. I don't know any person who has the authority to override God's Word. Redefining it for themselves is sinful.
Corrected Capitalization
< Message edited by Marcus. -- 7/15/2008 10:24:33 PM >
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/15/2008 8:05:02 PM
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prophet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
The Scripture outlines the requirements for priests and bishops. It's a black and white issue. I don't know any person who has the authority to override God's Word. redefining it for themselves is sinful.
Amen!
Problem is with the AC, they have a hard of hearing for the Word of God since times past. They lack church discipline in that, they have failed to disciplne church leaders who have acted against their own articles. The seed of unrighteousness has been sown long time ago,, eg Spong, Jenkins.
It is called leaven in the scriptures and it has leaven the whole lump.
The result is they are calling unrighteousness, righteousness and darkness, light.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/16/2008 2:49:47 AM
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prophet
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Pope rides to Rowan's rescue 
Exclusive: Vatican shuns defectors and backs calls for Anglican unity
By James Macintyre, Religious Affairs Correspondent
Wednesday, 16 July 2008
The Pope is leading an unprecedented drive by the Roman Catholic Church to prevent the fragmentation of the worldwide Anglican Communion ahead of the once-a-decade gathering of its 800 bishops, which begins today, The Independent has learnt.
http://www.independent.co.uk:80/news/uk/this-britain/exclusive-pope-rides-to-rowans-rescue-868695.html
In his first public comments on the Lambeth Conference, Pope Benedict XVI has warned Anglican leaders that they must find a "mature" and faithful way of avoiding "schism". On top of this the Pope has:
* Sent three cardinals to the conference in Canterbury, including one of his top aides from the Vatican, to act as personal intermediaries between the two churches;
* Let it be known that he does not support the defection of conservative Anglicans to the Roman Catholic Church;
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/16/2008 8:26:31 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
* Let it be known that he does not support the defection of conservative Anglicans to the Roman Catholic Church;
Conservative Anglicans are not going to move to the RCC. I guess this shows his value of scripture.
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/16/2008 9:17:12 PM
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prophet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
* Let it be known that he does not support the defection of conservative Anglicans to the Roman Catholic Church;
Conservative Anglicans are not going to move to the RCC. I guess this shows his value of scripture.
Martin Luther must be rolling..... 
quote:
Sent three cardinals to the conference in Canterbury, including one of his top aides from the Vatican, to act as personal intermediaries between the two churches;
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/16/2008 10:28:32 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Martin Luther must be rolling.....
as is Thomas Crammer
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/17/2008 12:57:17 AM
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Marcus.
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I thought Luther started out wanting to reform the RCC and not split off himself?
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/17/2008 10:59:04 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Actually, I don't blame him for that. With Anglo-Catholics, it would work easily, but just being a conservative Anglican doesn't necessarily mean one should look at the Catholic Church as a refuge.
Can you explain the term "Anglo-Catholi"c and how their beliefs differ from those stated in the 39 Articles?
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RE: Anglican conservatives plan strategy - 7/18/2008 1:14:05 PM
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Ps103
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They hold to the "Branch Theory"--that Anglicanism, Catholicism and Othodoxy are really all one church--just different branches, which keeps the church "one, holy, catholic and apostolic." (Roman Catholics and Orthodox do not agree with this theory, btw)
They believe in Transubstantiation.
They do not highly regard the 39 Articles, and find them divisive with Roman Catholicism.
Believe in all seven sacrements.
There is more, but I don't think there is much more that is agreed to by all that consider themselves Anglo-Catholic.
John Henry Newman was one--read something of his and you will get a feel for it.
My point is that Anglo-Catholics should not be deterred from swimming the Tiber, because they really are 3/4 of the way there, anyway. The only thing that seperates them is authority, and most would not have much of a problem with that.
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A quote that comes to mind was along hte lines of "Stop throwing the weeds from your garden onto our side of the fence" 