pastor not following procedures? (Full Version)

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buckifn -> pastor not following procedures? (6/19/2008 2:20:36 PM)

How would you handle it if your Pastor refuses to follow by-law procedures? Would you find another church or stay there and push for his being disciplined up to and possibly including dismissal?



rcjames -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/19/2008 2:58:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: buckifn

How would you handle it if your Pastor refuses to follow by-law procedures? Would you find another church or stay there and push for his being disciplined up to and possibly including dismissal?


How about a little more informaation. there might be some things a Pastor would or could do that would merit leaving, but others things that would not merit leaving.

I mean is he not wedaring a tie in the office, or is he stealing from the offering; both of those things could fall under not following by law proceedures, but shold be handled is much different ways.

Thanks
RC



DaveW -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/20/2008 7:49:24 AM)

Who is the pastor accountable to in your congregation? The board, the congregation, denominational headquarters?



BibleL7 -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/20/2008 8:20:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: buckifn

How would you handle it if your Pastor refuses to follow by-law procedures? Would you find another church or stay there and push for his being disciplined up to and possibly including dismissal?


How did you come to the church and how long ya been there? if you have been there long time and is otherwise good church then check those by-laws of what needs to be done if you are not long time member then did the Lord lead you there to help? Is this not following by-law procecedures go against the Articles of Faith or is it a matter of not holding meetings when he should? Too much vageness to say.



colliefan -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/20/2008 4:10:20 PM)

Have you taken this issue to church leadership?



buckifn -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/20/2008 4:32:14 PM)

quote:

Have you taken this issue to church leadership?


I am part of the church leadership and so was asking about taking it to the next level which would be state overseers...


The chain of command so to speak goes like this..local church leaders, state overseers, regional, and then national.

Yes, there are bylaws which addresses the issue...without a lot of details the issue in a nutshell is the Pastor acted on his own without any input from the leadership on financial matters which requires a vote by the leadership team. He presented $$$$ information without our scrutiny or approval and we are not talking about small amounts of money here...

His report was processed and our concerns brushed away.

I have been at this church over 9 years so the time really isn't a factor.

There is a lot I can't discuss here, but that is the basics.



rcjames -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/20/2008 7:23:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: buckifn
His report was processed and our concerns brushed away.

I have been at this church over 9 years so the time really isn't a factor.

There is a lot I can't discuss here, but that is the basics.


So he went to the congregation for approval, while bypassing the other leaders?

If it is written into the bylaws that he was to get the leadership approval first, then the subject should be addressed with the Pastor. Call a leadership meeting and ask him why he neglected to follow written procedure.

Thanks
RC



buckifn -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/20/2008 8:59:49 PM)

quote:

So he went to the congregation for approval, while bypassing the other leaders?




No, he went to nobody..he did this himself and announced it to the congregation in the middle of a service in a way that led everyone else to believe the board researched, reviewed, and voted to accept the results.



armydude -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/20/2008 9:58:55 PM)

I agree with RC... Ask him first. Then if needed you can go on to other avenues. I believe in handling things at the smallest level possible first...



Roberta_ -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/20/2008 11:48:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: armydude

I agree with RC... Ask him first. Then if needed you can go on to other avenues. I believe in handling things at the smallest level possible first...


I agree!



rcjames -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/21/2008 9:28:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: buckifn
No, he went to nobody..he did this himself and announced it to the congregation in the middle of a service in a way that led everyone else to believe the board researched, reviewed, and voted to accept the results.


Then the leadership should have a meeting, call the Pastor in and ask him why this infraction of the guidelines occured.

Don't make it a witch hunt, have a copy of the procedures, read the appropriate part, and ask why he did not follow them. Then let him answer fully and without interference. Then ask any other questions concerning this matter that anyone else has. (do not let all the leadership start complaining about everything they think the Pastor has done; keep it on the one subject). Again let him answer fully without interruptions.

Then dismiss him and decide within the guideline for this as written what if anything should be the next step.

All the leadership must be civil and Biblical in the addressing of this matter.

Usually in matters such as this a sincere apology from the Pastor and his seeking the leaderships forgiveness is sufficient, sometimes the Pastor would need to speak to the congregation and say that he did not follow proceedure (if he did not) and state that that will not happen again, and ask their forgiveness.

Thanks
RC

Thanks
RC



armydude -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/21/2008 12:34:35 PM)

Excellent answer RC!



buckifn -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/21/2008 1:00:45 PM)

Thank you rc. We have called a meeting for Sunday evening. Unfortunately this is not a matter where an apology alone will be sufficient because there has to be accountability for the money.



rcjames -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/21/2008 1:26:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: buckifn

Thank you rc. We have called a meeting for Sunday evening. Unfortunately this is not a matter where an apology alone will be sufficient because there has to be accountability for the money.


I would think that if the monies was spent on the personal uses of the Pastor then restitution wound be part of the apology and seeking forgiveness.

If it was spent on the Church (sunday school supplies, better sound system, upgrading computers etc. ) then it can be discussed

If the monies were spent on supporting a mistress or a trip to vegas; then there is not much to discuss.


Thsnks
RC



Teaching_The_Way -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/21/2008 7:02:11 PM)

Pastors should never be lead by by-laws, He is to be led Only by the power of God and the Holy Spirit!

As JESUS said: As it is written Mark 7:7

7 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'
NIV



rcjames -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/21/2008 8:15:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBaileyKQFan

I agree Teaching-The-Way, and a church should not be in subjegation to any denominational headquarters, local, state, national, or universal or any thing else other than the local assembly of believers.


Would you please give some New Testament Scripture to support this notion?

Thanks
RC



buckifn -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/21/2008 10:38:27 PM)

quote:

Pastors should never be lead by by-laws, He is to be led Only by the power of God and the Holy Spirit


This thread is not a debate for that...it is a given in our church and my question is based on bylaws being an established given.

I'm sure you can open another thread for that discussion if you wish.



DaveW -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/21/2008 11:33:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBaileyKQFan

Its not one scripture, but the basic principle that Paul goes and establishes local churches and leaders for those churches. The churches that Paul started were, as far as I have read, not ruled over by Paul, or anyone else. They were autonomous.
no way were they autonomous. That is not in there or implied. If that were the case the various congregations had the option to accept or reject the judgment of the apostles in Acts 15. As I read it, the decision was binding on all congregations.

So much for autonomy.



BibleL7 -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (6/22/2008 2:52:26 AM)

I would say as it is the Lords money and there are set procecures for spending such monies then the pastor needs to be dismissed regardless of what it was spent on. This is clearly theft and if he would steal once from the Lord I dont see how saying he would not do it again could be trusted. As one who signs checks without set procedures I would not dare spend money for anyting other than regular expenses without consulting at least the board of trustees and or the congregation.



Teaching_The_Way -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (10/13/2008 5:54:28 PM)

My point is that we need to be very careful about adding laws/rules to the Bible and Christians.

Jesus has talked about that by telling the Pharisees that they lay upon men heavey burdens, and yet they do not left a fingure to remove them.

God Bless :)



GroupW -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (10/13/2008 6:50:38 PM)

For the record, RC's answers here are showing the wisdom gained over some years of leadership. I can't disagree with a single word he wrote. Biblical, logical, and effective advice.

BT



ffbruce -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (10/14/2008 10:59:24 AM)

I'm curious to know how this turned out.

The OP was written in June, and it's now October.

I hope that resolution, understanding and unity has been restored.



JimboFletch -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (10/14/2008 12:16:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Teaching_The_Way

My point is that we need to be very careful about adding laws/rules to the Bible and Christians.

Jesus has talked about that by telling the Pharisees that they lay upon men heavey burdens, and yet they do not left a fingure to remove them.

God Bless :)

When a man becomes pastor of a church that already has rules and bylaws, he accepts those by taking the position. He may lead the church to revise those but he is being a dictator - not an undershepherd of Christ - by changing them without due process and through godly leadership.

BTW, Pharisees were more like ungodly pastors that ruled others lives by force of their position than they were like laymen within a church. So you've described "pastors" that become dictators after taking a position of godly leader.



LoyalGypsy -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (10/14/2008 12:22:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: buckifn

quote:

Have you taken this issue to church leadership?


I am part of the church leadership and so was asking about taking it to the next level which would be state overseers...


The chain of command so to speak goes like this..local church leaders, state overseers, regional, and then national.

Yes, there are bylaws which addresses the issue...without a lot of details the issue in a nutshell is the Pastor acted on his own without any input from the leadership on financial matters which requires a vote by the leadership team. He presented $$$$ information without our scrutiny or approval and we are not talking about small amounts of money here...

His report was processed and our concerns brushed away.

I have been at this church over 9 years so the time really isn't a factor.

There is a lot I can't discuss here, but that is the basics.



Sounds like the democrats have infiltrated



buckifn -> RE: pastor not following procedures? (10/14/2008 8:36:03 PM)

quote:

I'm curious to know how this turned out.


Things are on the positive swing atm. I don't feel like giving specifics, but I do appreciate all who attempted to help..

we do have policies in place on who can sign what and we also have church discipline procedures...

we didn't put the matter to a vote on whether or not to retain our pastor..we prayed for a set amt of time and all agreed it was a given to keep him here...and the discipline given was accepted and we are moving forward.

I have no earthly idea what your post could mean gypsy so have no response either except to say it has nothing to do with anything you said. and politics has NOTHING to do with it..and I am not a person who is into debating politics very much anyhow.

God Bless



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