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RE: Why are we like this? (Christians) - 6/20/2008 10:58:31 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 341
Joined: 6/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
Jesus mixed with all sorts of sinners. Since Jesus is our representative, how could a church Not follow into His footsteps?
Please define what you mean by "Mixed with all sorts of sinners".
Thsnks
RC
Sweet Precious Jesus mixed with Mary Magdalene who, I believe was a prostitute; the woman at the well, who was an adulteress; and Zachaeus (sp?) who was a dishonest tax-collector and I am sure some other sinners. All these sinners realized their sins/problems and wanted to change their lifestyle and they did indeed when they repented and became followers of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Likewise, if a sinner (whatever his/her sin) comes to your church wanting to attend, would you turn him/her down OR welcome and embrace him/her in the same way Jesus did, esp. if they realized their sinful state and wanted to sincerely repent?
If Sweet Jesus, our role model, embraced sinners, shouldn't we follow his suit? Weren't we all sinners before we submit our life to Him?
Yes, Jesus did present the Truth to all sorts of people. He did not, however, forge close friendships with them, unless they repented of their ways and followed Him.
The woman at the well...we have no reason to believe he spent time with her other than the incident at the well. It is not known whether Mary Magdelene was a prostitute, only that she was demon possessed prior to meeting Jesus. She then followed Him. Zaccheus repented of his sins and was saved.
So if one wants to say "Jesus mixed with sinners," there is truth in that statement. But those that he "hung-out" with had repented and turned from their old, sinful lives to follow Him.
Following His example, we welcome all to Him with open arms. We proclaim His gospel to them, pray for/with them, give them practical help if needed. We are to stop there until, and if, they accept the gift of salvation. If they reject it, we do not align ourselves with them or engage in personal friendship with them.
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RE: Why are we like this? (Christians) - 6/21/2008 9:24:14 AM
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redeemedsaint
Posts: 494
Joined: 12/5/2005
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I'll give my two cents worth for what it is. The church is a place for the sick, not the well. We should welcome all kinds of people, even though some are in a sinful lifestyle. If we love on them, like Jesus has loved on us, they will see the difference in our lives and wonder how can I change? Instead of beating a Bible over people's heads and tellling them they are going to hell, we need to love on people with our actions. I have been mentored for the past three years by a gentleman who has never condemned me for my past, but just loved on me and has gotten me involved in the Word and I am seeing for the first time as to who I am in Christ. He does tell me the truth and at times I may not want to hear it, but he does it because he cares for me and wants God's best for me. If others would only heed this example.
_____________________________
Woody
Get off the track cause the freight train is coming - Coach Bobby Lee Duke from Facing the Giants
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RE: Why are we like this? (Christians) - 6/21/2008 10:04:25 AM
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Cloak
Posts: 4071
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: redeemedsaint
I'll give my two cents worth for what it is. The church is a place for the sick, not the well. We should welcome all kinds of people, even though some are in a sinful lifestyle. If we love on them, like Jesus has loved on us, they will see the difference in our lives and wonder how can I change? Instead of beating a Bible over people's heads and tellling them they are going to hell, we need to love on people with our actions. I have been mentored for the past three years by a gentleman who has never condemned me for my past, but just loved on me and has gotten me involved in the Word and I am seeing for the first time as to who I am in Christ. He does tell me the truth and at times I may not want to hear it, but he does it because he cares for me and wants God's best for me. If others would only heed this example.
Brilliantly said redeemedsaint, thank you, you saved me the time and effort to respond to Peter Gunn which would only be a redundancy if only my last post was CAREFULLY read, it would be self-explanatory! 
You, and those sinful biblical character, and in fact all of us previous sinners, are a living proof that "With God All things ARE possible."
Blessings!
_____________________________
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Why are we like this? (Christians) - 6/21/2008 1:59:00 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 341
Joined: 6/12/2008
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Cloak, you're right...no one is saying we aren't to love, accept and welcome ALL into our churches. Who do you hear saying that? And there is no scripture that teaches "Bible beating". We're to speak the Truth in love. But what most people miss is that there is no true love without Truth. God is Truth, Love, Holy, Savior...you can't divide God and you can't divide how we present Him to the world. And sometimes the Truth can be hard to swallow, but it's not our Truth to tinker with.
We were ALL in the same position before God prior to accepting His gift of salvation. And we all had to have a believer to bring that gift to our attention. "What do you have that you were not given?"
Mary Magdelene, the woman at the well, a person raised in a Christian home but not saved, a homosexual, Saul of Tarsus, a Wiccan, Zaccheus, a Buddhist, you, me...you name it. There is no difference between any of these people UNTIL they accept the gift of salvation!
Until one accepts Christ, we (as Christians) are to have no fellowship with them. (Make sure you understand the correct meaning of fellowship.) It's only after they are saved that we can develop a fellowship, and relationship, with them. The relationship between Woody and his Christian mentor is a perfect example...completely appropriate.
We love the unsaved, we communicate the Truth of the gospel to them, we provide for their physical needs as much as is appropriate, we pray for them. The rest is up to the Holy Spirit.
You and I may well be on the same page...so forgive me if I'm not understanding...it's kind of hard for me to tell from your aforementioned post. But it still seems to be a common thread among a lot of people that "Jesus hung out with the dregs of society, so we should too." I don't think a lot of people are really seeing that correctly.
< Message edited by Peter_Gunn -- 6/21/2008 2:06:11 PM >
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RE: Why are we like this? (Christians) - 6/21/2008 3:10:48 PM
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Cloak
Posts: 4071
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
Until one accepts Christ, we (as Christians) are to have no fellowship with them. (Make sure you understand the correct meaning of fellowship.) It's only after they are saved that we can develop a fellowship, and relationship, with them. The relationship between Woody and his Christian mentor is a perfect example...completely appropriate.
Well-said Peter except for this part: We CAN continue to show them God's love even when they're still sinners just the way Jesus did. In fact our love, prayers and friendship for them could be quite healing and toning to them. Only in case the relationship becomes destructive, stuck or stagnant to our safety or the other person refuses stubbornly to change or is not genuine only then, for our safety, it is better to set boundaries and keep our distance from them WHILE continue to pray for them secretly.
_____________________________
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Why are we like this? (Christians) - 6/21/2008 7:05:48 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3591
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
But those that he "hung-out" with had repented and turned from their old, sinful lives to follow Him.
The disciples were a bunch of messed up people who had no clue until Jesus left and they were Holy Spirit indwellt. They made a ton of mistakes sufferiung from pride and foolishness.
If Jesus only hangs out with the righteous...then He is a very lonely God.
There is a degree that we fellowship with the unsaved. We love people to the Lord but we do not take on their ways or be conformed to the world they live in.
We shouldn't close ourselves in our white ivory towers and let the world go to hell.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Why are we like this? (Christians) - 6/21/2008 7:42:01 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3758
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
But those that he "hung-out" with had repented and turned from their old, sinful lives to follow Him.
The disciples were a bunch of messed up people who had no clue until Jesus left and they were Holy Spirit indwellt. They made a ton of mistakes sufferiung from pride and foolishness.
If Jesus only hangs out with the righteous...then He is a very lonely God.
There is a degree that we fellowship with the unsaved. We love people to the Lord but we do not take on their ways or be conformed to the world they live in.
We shouldn't close ourselves in our white ivory towers and let the world go to hell.
What is that degree? The bible says we are not to break bread with and remove from the church a brother who won't repent...
John
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RE: Why are we like this? (Christians) - 6/23/2008 5:30:53 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1609
Joined: 3/30/2008
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Can I ask how did anyone get saved? If sinners should be thrown out of the Church , how did any of you guys(sinners) get saved, were you thrown out?
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RE: Why are we like this? (Christians) - 6/23/2008 11:31:52 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3591
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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quote:
What is that degree?
As long as the fellowship does not cause you to stumble. We are called to be in the world, just not of the world.
Expelling the immoral brother had a purpose...so satan would "work" on him. So he could be reconciled.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Why are we like this? (Christians) - 6/23/2008 10:07:11 PM
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endless_night
Posts: 67
Joined: 6/17/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
Can I ask how did anyone get saved? If sinners should be thrown out of the Church , how did any of you guys(sinners) get saved, were you thrown out?
What?
_____________________________
The Fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments. His praises endures forever.
Psalms 111:10
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RE: Why are we like this? (Christians) - 6/23/2008 10:30:22 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1419
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline
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And you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life. John 5:40
Those were Jesus' words to those who did this. His word to us is no different. He who has an ear let Him hear.
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RE: Why are we like this? (Christians) - 6/23/2008 11:11:18 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3758
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
As long as the fellowship does not cause you to stumble. We are called to be in the world, just not of the world.
That's pretty vague...
quote:
Expelling the immoral brother had a purpose...so satan would "work" on him. So he could be reconciled.
Or not...
John
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RE: Why are we like this? (Christians) - 6/24/2008 8:48:02 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3591
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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1Corinthians 5:5
5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
Sounds like handing him over to satan had a purpose...so his sinful nature could be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
Reconciliation. If he is truly saved, he will come back. If he wasn't then he was never the immoral brother, but just immoral.
quote:
As long as the fellowship does not cause you to stumble. We are called to be in the world, just not of the world.
That's pretty vague...
How specific do you want it to be? Jesus ate with sinners. He did not engage in sin but He was there with them. He fellowshiped with them. He was the christian example and I am sure He influenced many away from their lifestyles of sin.
< Message edited by SonInMe1 -- 6/24/2008 8:54:02 AM >
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Why are we like this? (Christians) - 6/25/2008 11:49:54 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3758
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
1Corinthians 5:5
5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
Sounds like handing him over to satan had a purpose...so his sinful nature could be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
Reconciliation. If he is truly saved, he will come back. If he wasn't then he was never the immoral brother, but just immoral.
As I stated, or not...
quote:
How specific do you want it to be? Jesus ate with sinners.
Anyone Jesus ate with was a sinner... Even His mother...
quote:
He did not engage in sin but He was there with them. He fellowshiped with them.
We are instructed NOT to have fellowship with them...
quote:
He was the christian example and I am sure He influenced many away from their lifestyles of sin.
Of course Jesus knew beyond any doubt who He was dealing with... We don't...
John
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