|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/11/2008 8:51:11 PM
|
|
|
backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
quote:
And they do. No one in this country is denied health care for lack of ability to pay.
Yes they are.
Again, facts to back this up??
quote:
BTW, if you do go to an ER without insurance, they have the right to bill you for the full cost of whatever care they provide. They don't have to write that off, though many hositals will write off at least part of it if you bother to ask. Whatever isn't written off is typically pursued to the full extent of the law.
What's written off is almost 2/3rds of the money owed, according to the article above. What other business would offer a 65% discount to those who have trouble paying, or who aren't willing to pay?
Quoting Samuelson;
quote:
That includes the uninsured. In 2008, their care will cost about $86 billion, estimates a study for the Kaiser Family Foundation. The uninsured pay about $30 billion themselves; the rest is uncompensated.
$56 BILLION DOLLARS goes uncompensated!! Ya' think that might be a reason costs are so high?
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/12/2008 9:43:12 AM
|
|
|
Kath
Posts: 17119
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: offline
|
triode,
An email has been sent to your account. If you did not receive it please contact community@salemwebnetwork.com
Sincerely
Kath
Volunteer Assistant Administrator
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message as I am unable to discuss it further.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns allowing time for a response during normal business hours.
Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.
Please review our FAQ for an explanation of this policy.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/12/2008 2:52:49 PM
|
|
|
solo_soprano22
Posts: 2472
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
|
quote:
Again, facts to back this up??
You've asked me that already, and back when you first asked I told you where you could find 'em. :) I think you were asking about Medicaid and being turned down; it's the same source.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/13/2008 12:18:17 AM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 1286
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
quote:
Thanks to our government the husband was given an Anthrax shot in the military which KILLED his pancreas. Army threw him out and the only thing they offered him was to pay for his diabetic supplies NOTHING MORE! Thank you Army! Wow. Just WOW. I know the military sinks pretty low sometimes but this is awful. She should sue the military on her husband's behalf. He might end up with disability and health benefits at the very least.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/13/2008 3:51:16 PM
|
|
|
backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
quote:
Again, facts to back this up??
You've asked me that already, and back when you first asked I told you where you could find 'em. :) I think you were asking about Medicaid and being turned down; it's the same source.
You cited a medical ethics book by Gregory Pence. Can you cite anything from that source that would back up your claims?
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/13/2008 7:52:08 PM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 3140
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
Wow. Just WOW. I know the military sinks pretty low sometimes but this is awful. But it is not the individual military health providers that "sink pretty low", rather it is their broken system of attempted universal free care which cannot support appropriate quality in certain situations. This is exactly like what we will see when socialized medicine comes to America, Heaven forbid!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/13/2008 10:56:21 PM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 1286
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
quote:
But it is not the individual military health providers that "sink pretty low", rather it is their broken system of attempted universal free care which cannot support appropriate quality in certain situations. No, it's the MILITARY. Period. Not their health providers. They kicked him out because of something THEY caused and then denied him benefits he needs, which I'm finding is a lot more common than I was aware. This vet should have the same benefits but the military likes to get rid of people and not give benefits even when they should.
However, that is a separate issue from military retiree health benefits. I come from a military background, have several family members who are retired from the military and they are thankful and very happy with their coverage. None of my relatives with military coverage (ARmy, Navy and Marines all three) have any serious complaints with the system.
I would take FREE military coverage over none any day of the week and twice on Sundays. 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/13/2008 11:05:38 PM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 3140
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
You're not getting it, relady. The system forced an immunization on an individual patient that was not medically indicated. The system had inadequate resources to care for the complications of said immunization. The system used an administrative process instead of a medical one to eliminate his benefits. This kind of broken system will be rampant in socialized medicine, I guarantee you!
quote:
I would take FREE military coverage over none any day of the week and twice on Sundays. All military outpatient clinics are closed on Sundays. 
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/13/2008 11:18:51 PM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 1286
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
quote:
The system forced an immunization on an individual patient that was not medically indicated. The system had inadequate resources to care for the complications of said immunization. Well, whether it was needed or not may be debatable -- the military gives everything to everyone as a matter of course. If he was headed to where they thought an Anthrax vax was necessary, that is probably why he got it.
Now, I don't believe they don't have inadequate resources at all - they are more than able to care for their active and retired members. There is no reason at all that they should not be able to care and extend coverage to their member in such condition as this vet.
If by socialized healthcare you mean the government takes over and runs the whole kit 'n' kaboodle, then I'd probably tend to agree with you.
quote:
All military outpatient clinics are closed on Sundays. LOL. 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/13/2008 11:36:01 PM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 3140
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
Now, I don't believe they don't have inadequate resources at all - they are more than able to care for their active and retired members. Actually, military physicians are now almost entirely family physicians and surgeons, designed to meet the needs of a young and healthy force susceptible to combat injuries. The management of diabetes is beyond the expertise of these primary providers. The vast majority of retirees are now cared for under the TriCare system utilizing primarily civilian specialists. Almost all military docs are greatly overworked and grossly underpaid which is why retention is such a huge problem. The system is broken and it serves as a sober reminder of what bureaucratic intrusion into healthcare leads to!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/14/2008 12:30:19 AM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 1286
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
quote:
Almost all military docs are greatly overworked and grossly underpaid which is why retention is such a huge problem. I'm not making a case for the military doctors to be taking care of people like this vet. However, the MILITARY itself should have discharged this young man and given him health benefits so that he has insurance (since he is now uninsurable) and should have treated him in the same manner they treat retirees.
I do not see the military system as broken - I see the military as not doing what they should do for the vets acquire serious health issues because of the military.
I see no reason why a somewhat socialized health insurance system should HAVE to be a bloated bureaucratic mess. Of course, it COULD become that, but it doesn't HAVE to be.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/14/2008 10:09:44 AM
|
|
|
whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 6/21/2008
Status: offline
|
The Bible says to be WISE--- not a WISE ASP
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/14/2008 10:13:10 AM
|
|
|
whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 6/21/2008
Status: offline
|
I agree with the misuse of the funds Sophie-- its very true the scoundrels in the system misdirect the overwhelming bulk of our tax dollars into 'administration', 'studies' and the like. But the point is, those SCOUNDRELS should be CUT OFF from the funds, NOT those people that are desperately in need of them, and to whom the funds are SUPPOSED to be directed.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/14/2008 3:11:51 PM
|
|
|
whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 6/21/2008
Status: offline
|
John, Im TELLIN Ya== you NEED the rainbow connection !!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/14/2008 5:27:38 PM
|
|
|
Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
I agree with the misuse of the funds Sophie-- its very true the scoundrels in the system misdirect the overwhelming bulk of our tax dollars into 'administration', 'studies' and the like. But the point is, those SCOUNDRELS should be CUT OFF from the funds, NOT those people that are desperately in need of them, and to whom the funds are SUPPOSED to be directed.
Oh I agree with you as well! It's just that there is no way on earth they are going to be if the majority of the population is going to look to them for help. We will end up with even more of our tax dollars going to "administrative fees", as they will need more people to handle the increase.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/14/2008 6:50:03 PM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 1286
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
quote:
Having been in the military and a coming from a military family it more like there is no point in complaining. The system is what it is and you just deal with it... Been there, too, as a dependent. The care I received while I was pregnant with my son was second to none. Some of the more routine care, not so much. But looking back on it compared to my doctor and care I receive now...they were/are comparable. My family members who are military have a complaint now and then but overall they are very pleased with their level of care. They don't have any more complaints overall compared to the level of complaints I or my non-military family member have.
Of course, it could all stem from a glass half empty or glass half full perspective. I always saw that particular military bene as a glass half full. Perhaps you just tend toward the glass half empty perspective.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/14/2008 7:01:07 PM
|
|
|
whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 6/21/2008
Status: offline
|
THANK You GOD THANK You God THANK you God---- my CUP RUNNETH OVER...AMEN and AMEN [gotta LOVE You JESUS !!!}
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/15/2008 5:11:16 PM
|
|
|
backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
I see no reason why a somewhat socialized health insurance system should HAVE to be a bloated bureaucratic mess. Of course, it COULD become that, but it doesn't HAVE to be.
Yes, it does HAVE to be. Government programs are by definition and necessity bureacracies. The more government is involved, the messier it gets. It's true with Medicare and Medicaid, it's true in all countries with socialized medicine, and it will be for all of us with UHC.
quote:
But it is not the individual military health providers that "sink pretty low", rather it is their broken system of attempted universal free care which cannot support appropriate quality in certain situations. This is exactly like what we will see when socialized medicine comes to America, Heaven forbid!
drmark hits another home run!
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/15/2008 9:26:58 PM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 3140
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
drmark hits another home run! Golly whiz, brb, they're only pitchin' up underhand softballs so far! Truth is this is one big slam dunk of an issue. Name one public service that governmental bureaucracy does better than profit driven private enterprise. Socialism is dead in the water and Western Europe's bloated tax structures prove it.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/15/2008 9:56:33 PM
|
|
|
womaninchrist
Posts: 456
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
|
Why do people keep holding up socialized medicine as if it's evil when there are so many clear examples showing that our current system of privatized insurance is not only a very far cry from perfect but that it also fails to serve quite a lot of people as promised (whether overtly or via implications). People have insurance and can't afford copays and deductibles or there aren't any doctors in the system taking new patients or only the out-of-network doctors will take new patients or maybe the insurance company thinks nothing of denying basic care or maybe they have no trouble accessing care but they find that they keep getting substandard care...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/15/2008 10:01:31 PM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 3140
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
So how will replacing the broken health insurance system with socialized medicine improve the situation, wic?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/19/2008 1:35:23 PM
|
|
|
Mrs.X
Posts: 2957
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
quote:
And they do. No one in this country is denied health care for lack of ability to pay.
Yes they are.
Again, facts to back this up??
Lets say you don't have insurance and your foot really hurts. So you go to the ER and pay $100 to be seen by an ER doctor. The ER doctor says you have to see a podiatrists. Well, that podiatrist will only take you if you can pay upfront. So, yeah, the ER will help you as much as they can, but when you need a specialist (sometimes) you have to pay up front. Happened to my friend last year. So, yeah, she's walking around on a gimpy foot because she can't affford to see the podiatrist.
In other countries where there is socialized healthcare, they have a really high sales tax, but they don't always tax stuff like regular groceries, some have a tax on junk food, movie theatre tickets, new computer, etc, like a luxury tax. I wouldn't have a problem with that, might even encourage Americans to eat less junk food and kick us in the pants if we get the "gimme gimmes" too badly like so many of us do. Gotta have the big screen and the biggest SUV and fastest computer, etc. Might help us be a little less greedy if that kind of stuff is taxed really high.
For the rest of us who don't make good money and who don't have private healthcare, we need something. Ya'll can keep your private healthcare or pay for your medical bills with a private doctor if you want to, but for the rest of us who don't have the money to do that, we need socialized healthcare.
A friend from Australia has the government healthcare plan (forgot the name of it), and she sees government doctors. When she had a problem with her baby and she wasn't getting the answers she needed from the government doctors, she paid to see a private doctor. If we had something implemented like that in the US, then go ahead and pay for private healthcare, or pay your private doctor bill with your own money if you feel the government is not giving you good care. I don't have healthcare, and I'd be willing to see OK doctors for no cost (since I can't afford it) than see no doctor at all.
I guess I just don't see what the problem is? You'd still get to keep your private insurance through your job, and the rest of us would get socialized care. What is wrong with that?
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
