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ORIGINAL: relady

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If it's un-Christian to let people sit by and rot on the wayside, then socialized medicine is un-Christian, because that's just what people do in countries with socialized health care. People don't die in this country for lack of ability to pay for care.

Uh, hate to burst your bubble, but yes, they do. If you don't have money & insurance, you don't get the care you need. There have been several stories on the news in recent years about just this very subject.

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ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22

ORIGINAL: relady

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If it's un-Christian to let people sit by and rot on the wayside, then socialized medicine is un-Christian, because that's just what people do in countries with socialized health care. People don't die in this country for lack of ability to pay for care.

Uh, hate to burst your bubble, but yes, they do. If you don't have money & insurance, you don't get the care you need. There have been several stories on the news in recent years about just this very subject.

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Wow. I thought everyone knew that people die here and don't get care because of lack of money.

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I have known cancer patients who could have survived, but insurance didn't want to pay for anything.

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These things happen in the good ole USA; just because you or anyone else hasn't heard of them doesn't mean it doesn't happen...unfortunately, people do die here because they had no way to pay.

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Any facts to back that up? As I've posted before, I once had a life-threatening illness, without health insurance (my choice), and got the care I needed, no questions asked. By law, they had to. If anybody dies because they were refused care, it's more likely a legal issue.

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ORIGINAL: .nile.

I believe that the US could provide an income based tiered structure supplementary system for medical care to all its citizens so that the people would provide extra coverage and coverage for those that are in need and this would still be competition for medical care in hospitals because the constituents are billed for services provided.

'Give and it will be given a good measure pressed down and overflowing will be poured into your lap.'

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ORIGINAL: triode

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Any facts to back that up? As I've posted before, I once had a life-threatening illness, without health insurance (my choice), and got the care I needed, no questions asked. By law, they had to. If anybody dies because they were refused care, it's more likely a legal issue.

Thank you for sponging off those of us who have insurance (by choice).

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ORIGINAL: .nile.

I believe that the US could provide an income based tiered structure supplementary system for medical care to all its citizens so that the people would provide extra coverage and coverage for those that are in need and this would still be competition for medical care in hospitals because the constituents are billed for services provided.

'Give and it will be given a good measure pressed down and overflowing will be poured into your lap.'

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ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist

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ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22

I DO think healthcare is a right, not a privilege. It should not be a privilege here to have decent healthcare. To think that it's something that you should only get if you're "good enough" or "have enough" is crazy, in MY opinion (not the person, but the opinion itself). I respect others' opinions and the person him- or herself, but I can disagree with whomever I wish to disagree with. I think some people's opinions and views on things are vitrolic...and very un-Christian. I don't think Jesus would tell us to let those who can pay (or be insured) be taken care of...and let those who cannot sit by and rot on the wayside. But if someone thinks that way, that's what right in their own mind.

If it's un-Christian to let people sit by and rot on the wayside, then socialized medicine is un-Christian, because that's just what people do in countries with socialized health care. People don't die in this country for lack of ability to pay for care. People DO die in Europe, Canada, Cuba and everywhere else.
Some facts:

This is a survey of Canadians done in '05 to see what their priorities would be in improving health care. Their answers are frightening.
http://www.readersdigest.ca/mag/2005/04/health.html

Here's what's happening in Scotland:
Cancer patients are still waiting up to seven months for treatment.
Patients are supposed to be treated within 62 days of urgent referral, but figures showed only three areas in Scotland were meeting those targets every time.
In the worst cases, sufferers were kept hanging on for 265 days.
related article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6192150.stm

In Australia, more people dying while waiting for treatment - http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23762958-3102,00.html

How can you say universal health care will be an improvement, Solo? Are you so immersed in propoganda that the tragic realities of socialized care don't get through?

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ORIGINAL: tracydolls

Makes me kinda of wish Bo would hurry and win so some people could get the care they need.

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ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly

This message is not aimed at any particular person unless the shoe fits--- just a truth that any intelligent christian already knows in his heart ==
Its time for the uber rich christians in this country to get over themselves and start doing what God says to do-- of course we know THAT will never happen -- didn't happen in Jesus day even -- so socialized medical care is an option and saying no to it is saying just forget the poor and the jobless and the majority of the people in this country and just go on grasping all those dollars in your tight little fists and keep fooling yourselves that you will be able to buy your way into heaven. I have NO patience for the rich and NO patience for those who just jabber away about why they don't like socialized medicine, while giving NO clue as to what can be done for the millions who have NO health care available to them in one of the richest nations in the world. That attitude is just horse ****.
[the stars are mine] Someday we will ALL find out how Jesus feels about the way so many people in this world and even in this country have been dehumanized and ignored and sentenced to pain, and even death, while others slobber away in greed and excess== you can find out NOW if you have a Bible handy. But then why bother with the BIBLE? You have all the answers already, right? Good luck.

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ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly

You said "I once had a life-threatening illness, without health insurance (my choice), and got the care I needed, no questions asked. By law, they had to. "

So you let us taxpayers pay for your care right?
Just asking--

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I have a story to tell. In January, 1993 I was working as a substitute teacher in Calif. I did not have health insurance, mostly because I was young and healthy and didn't think I needed it. Besides, as soon as I was hired by the district the next school year, I would have full bennies. Unfortunately, I was hit by a nasty pneumonia bug and ended up in the ER, then in the hospital (it nearly killed me). In the ER, they asked if I had insurance and I said 'no'. They treated me anyways. By law, they HAD to. As I was being discharged later, an administrator approached me and said they did not have my insurance info for billing. I told her I didn't have insurance, whereupon she blinked a bit and said "oh, well, we'll take 25 % off you bill". That was my first clue about what happens when someone else is paying your medical bills. Costs go UP!
The irony of this story is that from my hospital bed I watched Bill Clinton's innaugeration on TV. A few months later, Hilary started her universal health care campaign. Some of the main points she argued were that "millions of Americans are denied health care because they don't have insurance", "people are being turned away from hospitals because they don't have coverage". "If you oppose it, you're for letting people die", or words thereof. My recent experience told me otherwise. That was my first clue as to what the universal health care push was and is all about. A government power grab based on lies and demagoguery.

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This message is not aimed at any particular person unless the shoe fits--- just a truth that any intelligent christian already knows in his heart ==
Its time for the uber rich christians in this country to get over themselves and start doing what God says to do-- of course we know THAT will never happen -- didn't happen in Jesus day even -- so socialized medical care is an option and saying no to it is saying just forget the poor and the jobless and the majority of the people in this country and just go on grasping all those dollars in your tight little fists and keep fooling yourselves that you will be able to buy your way into heaven. I have NO patience for the rich and NO patience for those who just jabber away about why they don't like socialized medicine, while giving NO clue as to what can be done for the millions who have NO health care available to them in one of the richest nations in the world. That attitude is just horse ****.
[the stars are mine] Someday we will ALL find out how Jesus feels about the way so many people in this world and even in this country have been dehumanized and ignored and sentenced to pain, and even death, while others slobber away in greed and excess== you can find out NOW if you have a Bible handy. But then why bother with the BIBLE? You have all the answers already, right? Good luck.

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I told her I didn't have insurance, whereupon she blinked a bit and said "oh, well, we'll take 25 % off you bill". That was my first clue about what happens when someone else is paying your medical bills. Costs go UP!

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And we will find out how Jesus feels about those who advocate socialism, which at it's core is Godless and de-humanizing, and socialized medicine, which will cause pain and suffering to multitudes of His children.

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We'll all need luck if this kind of covetous, envy-driven class warfare rhetoric wins out and we end up with universal health care. And we will find out how Jesus feels about those who advocate socialism, which at it's core is Godless and de-humanizing, and socialized medicine, which will cause pain and suffering to multitudes of His children.

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ORIGINAL: triode

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We'll all need luck if this kind of covetous, envy-driven class warfare rhetoric wins out and we end up with universal health care. And we will find out how Jesus feels about those who advocate socialism, which at it's core is Godless and de-humanizing, and socialized medicine, which will cause pain and suffering to multitudes of His children.

Is Jesus a capitalistic, free market loving, Republican? So people that want some form of health care that will cover people who CANNOT afford it, who believe that health care is a right, who believe everyone should be covered from conception to grave, are engaging in class warfare? How do you figure that? I'm coveting what exactly? Some one's lack of insurance?

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ORIGINAL: relady

No, those of us who have insurance are subsidizing your lack of insurance, so we are paying through our increased premiums, the other 75% of your bill. Dude, you are making our case for us. Thank you so much.

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What do you think would have happened had you had to have drugs that cost hundreds of dollars per month? Think the pharmaceutical company would have just given them to you? What if you needed those drugs to live and you didn't have the money? Would you expect those of us with insurance to continue to pay rising premiums so you could get your drugs free? Hopefully? Nice, thanks buddy

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I'm paying more premiums every year to offset the costs of people like you without insurance and proud of it. Oh, but that's ok, I guess, because in this case, it benefits you. Never mind about your fellow man and what your lack of insurance might be costing him or her. That's not suffering that Jesus would worry about. LOL.

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ORIGINAL: triode

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We'll all need luck if this kind of covetous, envy-driven class warfare rhetoric wins out and we end up with universal health care. And we will find out how Jesus feels about those who advocate socialism, which at it's core is Godless and de-humanizing, and socialized medicine, which will cause pain and suffering to multitudes of His children.

Is Jesus a capitalistic, free market loving, Republican? So people that want some form of health care that will cover people who CANNOT afford it, who believe that health care is a right, who believe everyone should be covered from conception to grave, are engaging in class warfare? How do you figure that? I'm coveting what exactly? Some one's lack of insurance?

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ORIGINAL: triode

Maybe I'm as dumb as you think, because you lost me: What's that got to do with my questions?

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ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist

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ORIGINAL: .nile.

I believe that the US could provide an income based tiered structure supplementary system for medical care to all its citizens so that the people would provide extra coverage and coverage for those that are in need and this would still be competition for medical care in hospitals because the constituents are billed for services provided.

'Give and it will be given a good measure pressed down and overflowing will be poured into your lap.'

The best idea to come down the pike recently are health savings accounts. They are designed to create market pressure to bring down the costs of care and medication.
http://www.healthsavingsinfo.com/market.htm
THIS is the type of thinking and policy making we need to improve our HC sysytem, not failed socialistic panaceas that create more problems.

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ORIGINAL: Dubya

I haven't read through all of the posts in this thread so please excuse me if this has already been said.

I agree with backrowbaptist that the uninsured have no impact whatsoever on premiums for those who choose to have insurance. The biggest costs involve litigation and the threat of litigation. In many cases, the largest expense in a medical practice is malpractice insurance. Some of the outrageous expenses incurred from a hospital stay are for tests and treatments based on CYA in an effort to prevent lawsuits.

It seems to me that tort reform (which has been vehemently opposed by both political parties) can lower medical costs more than almost anything else.

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This message is not aimed at any particular person unless the shoe fits--- just a truth that any intelligent christian already knows in his heart ==
Its time for the uber rich christians in this country to get over themselves and start doing what God says to do-- of course we know THAT will never happen -- didn't happen in Jesus day even -- so socialized medical care is an option and saying no to it is saying just forget the poor and the jobless and the majority of the people in this country and just go on grasping all those dollars in your tight little fists and keep fooling yourselves that you will be able to buy your way into heaven. I have NO patience for the rich and NO patience for those who just jabber away about why they don't like socialized medicine, while giving NO clue as to what can be done for the millions who have NO health care available to them in one of the richest nations in the world. That attitude is just horse ****.
[the stars are mine] Someday we will ALL find out how Jesus feels about the way so many people in this world and even in this country have been dehumanized and ignored and sentenced to pain, and even death, while others slobber away in greed and excess== you can find out NOW if you have a Bible handy. But then why bother with the BIBLE? You have all the answers already, right? Good luck.

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And there a was a comment made by another person about beating the money out of the rich....