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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 9:06:31 AM
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whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
God's will on this earth can only be thwarted by our greed or our disobedience.
Nope...
Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Isaiah 43:13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
Isaiah 42:9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
Isaiah 43:13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
John
God's will in that individual's LIFE, not in general, John. You think disobedience to God doesn't thwart God's will for your life? [I mean the universal you, not you personally, although the personal you applies to each of us too.. not just a personal accusation is what I mean here]. I know He doesn't give up and comes about His purposes and His will no matter what we do as He is soverign. BUT we CAN cause our own bumps in the road and pitfalls if we disobey Him. Sometimes He leaves us down there for quite awhile too. Remember Jonah? Maybe thwart was a poor choice of words, but God's will for us is not forced down our throats, it has and always will entail our obedience to it.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 9:33:54 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
God's will for us is not forced down our throats, it has and always will entail our obedience to it.
Ok, so God's will is not forced on us, but once we are Christians we are then going to force it on others? As in forcing them to donate their wealth to the poor?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 9:41:43 AM
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whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Well, John, again - 75% of Americans live in a 100% privatized healthcare system. Please explain how on earth the government is responsible for the healthcare calamity of ever rising costs on drugs, services when it is not even involved for 75% of us.
Peace and God bless,
WOW very well put !! You NAILED it.
Although in fairness I must say my observation has been that although the handling of the 25% by government HAS gone awry, it has NOT been largely on the FEDERAL level. Once again it has been at the state and local level where greedy agencies have seen a nice fat juicy feast awaiting them with federal funds and as usual THEY have mucked it up.
What we really need is some good old fashioned big brother whacking of the state and local agencies.
When I demanded to see how the federal money being funneled into the state for my sons' care was actually being distributed I was denied access to that information. I asked my local representative to look into it and she did, but reported that she TOO was denied access. Now why would THAT be I wonder?
I am NOT a big government control freak by any stretch of the imagination, but I DO think the federal government needs to police the state and local governmental agencies and private agencies that accept and supposedly distribute the federal money for the programs for the poor and disabled.
The same would be true for socialized medical care. Left to themselves at least THIS state and its county governmental and private agencies can NOT be trusted.
In THIS state, more and more private health agencies are popping up and gobbling up the funds without actually distributing them. Case in point, although my boys are ENTITLED by state and federal regs to many hours of care, I have not been provided with ANY in over a year, although the multi-layered agencies in charge continues to bill for "services" for them.
And every month they heap on more and more useless and meaningless paperwork, cut more and more people from eligibility [You can either be too smart to qualify, or not smart enough apparently], bring in more and more layers of administration....and provide less and less service down on the client care level.
THAT's what is wrong with the system, NOT the federal program in and of itself.
Actually at the federal level the Title 19 Waiver Medicaid program[for keeping disabled in their homes and out of institutions] is quite flexible and sound. The STATES opt to pick it up or not, and often its "not" because they have to have some matching funds. BUT, the STATE makes its own regs and submits them to the feds for approval before getting the funds.
Every year our state has further perverted the original intention of the simple program instituted here in 1988 which was designed by a brilliant parent of a disabled young lady and a for once honest and practical state employee of the health care system. The mother had written to President Reagan because she was so frustrated that she could get no help at all for her daughter if she kept her at home.....only could get help in the form of institutionalization. I believe that is how the original program became a reality.
The plan for the federal program as implemented in this state was simple and extremely effective, with clearcut, user friendly regs, and a minimum of administrative layers and useless red tape. But alas, now that the greedy have gotten on what they consider to be the "gravy train", its been all downhill since then.
FORCING the state and local agencies to COMPLY with the regs they agree to, is what the federal government needs to do to stop the corruption at the state and local level. Even at the state level they keep claiming they can't do anything to the local agencies that don't follow their own regs.
BUT the state and local levels sure can make the caregivers and the clients comply, or they get BOOTED off the program.
Any federal healthcare program would face the same problem and would require VERY TIGHT and effective policing. I know people don't like policing by the government as a whole, and neither do I, but some people in positions of power NEED policing.... all the way from the bottom to the top. We have to have ZERO tolerance for corruption and misuse of funds in government.
< Message edited by whos_your_dolly -- 6/26/2008 5:32:42 PM >
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 9:55:06 AM
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whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 6/21/2008
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They shouldn't have to have it forced on them should they? Not the Christians anyway. It's God's idea and supposedly we are all trying to follow His word as Christians. Personally I don't have alot of time to worry about anyone other than those I am taking care of, and all the forcing I'm trying to do involves the corrupt agencies at the state and local level.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
God's will for us is not forced down our throats, it has and always will entail our obedience to it.
Ok, so God's will is not forced on us, but once we are Christians we are then going to force it on others? As in forcing them to donate their wealth to the poor?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 9:57:22 AM
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whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
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HEY I can reply to MYSELF !! LOL !!
Just saying bye for now--- had my coffee and now got to get my business up and running and my guys fed, and all... laters.
dolly
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 11:13:08 AM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
Posts: 897
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My mom in a RN in Maine. She always has at least a couple of patients who came to the US from the free heathcare country of Canada to get treatment here and pay for it.
I was watching a show called worst teeth in Britain on the BBC last night. Some girl was so afraid of dentists she had not gone in 10 years. She ended up getting on a waiting list that was 2 years long for a specialist. So in my opinion the rest of the world can keep their free health care I would rather pay for it and not wait years to see the doctor.
_____________________________
<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 11:18:34 AM
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Zhi
Posts: 1445
Joined: 7/31/2007
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To answer a few comments previous...
Yes, the current healthcare system in our country could be deemed somewhat broken.
The thing is, though, that the answer to that is not to pick some other arbitrary system and hope it doesn't get MORE broken as a result. Especially in light of the fact that there's pretty convincing evidence that it would certainly BE more broken if we handed it over to the government, since they've broken basically every other social program they've ever been handed.
Status quo is better than making things worse. If you want to change something, you need to make all reasonable efforts to ensure that the results will be better.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 5:24:10 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
They shouldn't have to have it forced on them should they? Not the Christians anyway. It's God's idea and supposedly we are all trying to follow His word as Christians. Personally I don't have alot of time to worry about anyone other than those I am taking care of, and all the forcing I'm trying to do involves the corrupt agencies at the state and local level.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
God's will for us is not forced down our throats, it has and always will entail our obedience to it.
Ok, so God's will is not forced on us, but once we are Christians we are then going to force it on others? As in forcing them to donate their wealth to the poor?
No they shouldn't have to have it forced on them. That was my point. Why is it that when you are a Christian you should give out of the kindness of your heart and in obedience to God, but if you're not a Christian oh well the Christians think you need to give more? What kind of message is that?!?
And by the way, you "not having time to worry about anyone else" is your entire problem in this issue. You are worried about yourself and your family and you think it will be good for you so you don't even want to hear about the negative side of universal healthcare. What happens when you discover universal healthcare is not all it's cracked up to be? I guarantee you will be in a lot bigger mess than you're in now as far as getting medical treatment goes. I don't want that for you or anyone else.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 5:24:17 PM
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whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 6/21/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
To answer a few comments previous...
Yes, the current healthcare system in our country could be deemed somewhat broken.
The thing is, though, that the answer to that is not to pick some other arbitrary system and hope it doesn't get MORE broken as a result. Especially in light of the fact that there's pretty convincing evidence that it would certainly BE more broken if we handed it over to the government, since they've broken basically every other social program they've ever been handed.
Status quo is better than making things worse. If you want to change something, you need to make all reasonable efforts to ensure that the results will be better.
If you will look into the Federal healthcare programs, such as Title 19 Medicare Waiver, you will find that the basic plans and regulations put forward by the federal government are often broad based and flexible---- allowing for innovation at the state and local level.
The feds offer funding to states for a particular need [ie dealing with the disabled financially] . They then ask the individual state [if it agrees to a certain amount in matching funds] to establish and submit a comprehensive plan for how they will meet that need in their state, using the financial help they will recieve and partially match.
Then the feds decide whether or not to fund the state's plan. I often wonder how many plans have been rejected. Then the state is SUPPOSED to set up and run the program in compliance with those agreed-upon Regs which become legally binding once both parties agree and sign [federal and state].
BUT unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anywhere to go from THERE. Once the plan or Regs as they are most often referred to , is in effect, and the funds start to arrive, the state and local agencies at least in this area start to play the "how can we capture the greatest amount of money while doing as little as possible with it to help the people we are supposed to be helping"
It becomes just another cash cow and the people who actually need, and qualify for the help are thwarted at every turn with paralyzing , "catch 22" style policies drempt up by the state and local agencies to perpetrate the fraud.
The breakdown seems to be at a level maybe one step removed from the Director of a local agency, but sometimes it is with that director level.
There are SO many really amazing hard-working underpaid and undervalued professionals at the case management level, which is one step above the delivery of services level.
The state and local agencies themselves, at SOME nebulous level, have become geniuses at subverting the noblest of plans, and perpetrating brilliant scemes to derail a potentially brilliant program offered by the Feds. It ALMOST makes me laugh. I just can't fathom WHY ??
Doesn't it make more sense to try to use the program to solve the problem? It ain't gonna go AWAY !!
Socialized medicine could go either way...
It could be another cash cow to be abused and misused on the state and local level if left unpoliced with some REAL ammunition, not just threats nobody listens to.
OR
It could be an successful, efficient, humane, financially sound, blessed solution to the mess we have now.
How we make that happen is the issue. We can't give into despair and say it just will NEVER happen-- to do that is akin to doubting God isn't it? He says all things are possible through Him, and He says to care for the poor and needy, and He says He places in power whom He wills, and He says we have the right to come before Him with our needs and wants, and that He wants us to prosper and BE IN HEALTH, so why NOT??
Nobody seems to have any other ideas anyways !!
I have been told by federal representative who have come into the state proportedly to check out how the state and local agencies are using federal money
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 5:35:59 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
How we make that happen is the issue. We can't give into despair and say it just will NEVER happen-- to do that is akin to doubting God isn't it? He says all things are possible through Him, and He says to care for the poor and needy, and He says He places in power whom He wills, and He says we have the right to come before Him with our needs and wants, and that He wants us to prosper and BE IN HEALTH, so why NOT??
Nobody seems to have any other ideas anyways !!
The problem is that the current system doesn't work. You can wish for it to be fixed overnight, but odds are it's not going to happen. Be realistic. It has nothing to do with doubting God either. It has to do with the reality of the situation. If you are putting all of your faith in God to take care of the needy regardless of what's going on, then why are you fighting so hard for the government to help?
Also, I do not think it is wise to go along with and agree with a system destined for failure for the simple reason that there is nothing else being offered right now. I love how everyone who is in favor of socialized healthcare keeps on demanding the opposition give them an alternative or get out of the way. As if those in favor of socialized healthcare came up with that idea by themself. 
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 5:45:26 PM
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whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 6/21/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
They shouldn't have to have it forced on them should they? Not the Christians anyway. It's God's idea and supposedly we are all trying to follow His word as Christians. Personally I don't have alot of time to worry about anyone other than those I am taking care of, and all the forcing I'm trying to do involves the corrupt agencies at the state and local level.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
God's will for us is not forced down our throats, it has and always will entail our obedience to it.
Ok, so God's will is not forced on us, but once we are Christians we are then going to force it on others? As in forcing them to donate their wealth to the poor?
No they shouldn't have to have it forced on them. That was my point. Why is it that when you are a Christian you should give out of the kindness of your heart and in obedience to God, but if you're not a Christian oh well the Christians think you need to give more? What kind of message is that?!?
And by the way, you "not having time to worry about anyone else" is your entire problem in this issue. You are worried about yourself and your family and you think it will be good for you so you don't even want to hear about the negative side of universal healthcare. What happens when you discover universal healthcare is not all it's cracked up to be? I guarantee you will be in a lot bigger mess than you're in now as far as getting medical treatment goes. I don't want that for you or anyone else.
The reason I don't have time is because I have too many things to do just to keep the household here running and the guys fed and toileted and medicated, and bathed, and clothed, and set up with their various devices, and running a business and sleeping [yes I do still try to sleep occasionally] to do anything else. Plus BTW I am almost 65.
I don't count on anything or anyone but God, but He just may decide to go with subsidized medical care. Who knows. Doesn't look like many billionaires are stepping up to the plate. Or churches/Christians either.
I questioned whether or not we should go onto a program in the beginning because I still thought God was going to raise up my sons like He did with the cripple in the Bible, and thought by taking any help from a place that tried to label them retarded might somehow be the wrong thing to do. I finally won the battle with one son, since he is CLEARLY brain injured, and has shown over and over his intelligence, level is nowhere near retarded. Its just his body that doesn't work.
Through the years God has allowed my guys to remain disabled. Only He knows why. My older son seems to know. I have never seen anyone get the results to prayer he does, nor have I ever seen anyone so obviously thrilled to be communing with God through prayer.
Actually my younger son seems to be smart enough to act dumb !! He just wants to listen to music and have his slaves [me and dad] do all the dirty work... and that is an attempt to bring a smile.
I think God has shown us He can use the government to help us. Of course there will always be PEOPLE trying to mess it up. But maybe through our persistence in action, and especially in PRAYER we will be able to see a successful program to help those that need it.
If the church would only wake up and realize how far they are straying by refusing to take the charge God has given them to take care of the needy, there would be NO issue. But Alas, by and large, the church has, up until now at least, seemed to have turned a deaf ear.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 5:50:17 PM
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whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 6/21/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
To answer a few comments previous...
Yes, the current healthcare system in our country could be deemed somewhat broken.
The thing is, though, that the answer to that is not to pick some other arbitrary system and hope it doesn't get MORE broken as a result. Especially in light of the fact that there's pretty convincing evidence that it would certainly BE more broken if we handed it over to the government, since they've broken basically every other social program they've ever been handed.
Status quo is better than making things worse. If you want to change something, you need to make all reasonable efforts to ensure that the results will be better.
So who can we TRUST to run a health care program? Is God capable of influencing our leaders sufficiently to produce a system that DOES work? Whether or NOT they profess to be Christian? Well we know He CAN, and has done it at times, but it that His Will in this case? I don't know... just asking.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 5:51:53 PM
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whos_your_dolly
Posts: 87
Joined: 6/21/2008
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But what if someday you don't have enough money to pay for it?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leslie_JnJs_mom
My mom in a RN in Maine. She always has at least a couple of patients who came to the US from the free heathcare country of Canada to get treatment here and pay for it.
I was watching a show called worst teeth in Britain on the BBC last night. Some girl was so afraid of dentists she had not gone in 10 years. She ended up getting on a waiting list that was 2 years long for a specialist. So in my opinion the rest of the world can keep their free health care I would rather pay for it and not wait years to see the doctor.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 7:57:45 PM
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freakofnature
Posts: 819
Joined: 1/17/2008
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So... if socialized health care is sooooooooo great! And CANADA has it soooooo gooooood and theirs is the model we should follow, can some one answer this for me:
Canadian Health Care We So Envy Lies In Ruins, Its Architect Admits
A little quote from the man himself:
quote:
"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it, We are proposing to give a greater role to the private sector so that people can exercise freedom of choice."(emphasis mine)
quote:
Canada isn't the only country facing a government health care crisis. Britain's system, once the postwar inspiration for many Western countries, is similarly plagued. Both countries trail the U.S. in five-year cancer survival rates, transplantation outcomes and other measures....
The problem is that government bureaucrats simply can't centrally plan their way to better health care.
A typical example: The Ministry of Health declared that British patients should get ER care within four hours. The result? At some hospitals, seriously ill patients are kept in ambulances for hours so as not to run afoul of the regulation; at other hospitals, patients are admitted to inappropriate wards.
EDIT-
I really really wish I could post the whole article here but a TOS would certainly not be in my favor. I do highly recommend that you read the entire article
< Message edited by freakofnature -- 6/26/2008 8:04:59 PM >
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 8:02:00 PM
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Stronger2day
Posts: 106
Joined: 5/26/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Do you have a better solution for the current healthcare climate that allows for 45-47 million Americans to go without health insurance?
Peace and God bless,
I've seen this number for the uninsured tossed around a lot lately. I wish we could analyze the data a bit more. For instance, I personally know of a couple folks who complain when they have to go to the doctor because it is $$ and they 'cannot afford health insurance'. I guess I find it interesting that they are always dressed to the nines, can afford nice mobile phones, gym memberships and even a * new car *- but cannot afford insurance? Before you start yelling, I realize this isn't the norm, but it does make me wonder about the data. Is there a small % of people who CHOOSE not to prioritize expenditures in order to purchase insurance?
_____________________________
"The journey from your mind to your hands is shorter than you're thinking. Be careful if you think you stand, you just might be sinking."
(Slow Fade/Casting Crowns)
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 9:10:53 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
Posts: 897
Joined: 9/6/2007
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I believe there is. Most jobs that can pay that well offer health insurance. We are not rich by any stretch of the imagination yet we have health insurance, very good health insurance. Dh's job offers it plus dental which is also very good. His job is not a big fancy job. He works for a home improvment wherehouse. He is our only income and by many standards it would not be called alot but we do ok. We have nice cars and have a nice home but are nowhere near rich.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stronger2day
I've seen this number for the uninsured tossed around a lot lately. I wish we could analyze the data a bit more. For instance, I personally know of a couple folks who complain when they have to go to the doctor because it is $$ and they 'cannot afford health insurance'. I guess I find it interesting that they are always dressed to the nines, can afford nice mobile phones, gym memberships and even a * new car *- but cannot afford insurance? Before you start yelling, I realize this isn't the norm, but it does make me wonder about the data. Is there a small % of people who CHOOSE not to prioritize expenditures in order to purchase insurance?
_____________________________
<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 9:14:16 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2472
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stronger2day
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Do you have a better solution for the current healthcare climate that allows for 45-47 million Americans to go without health insurance?
Peace and God bless,
I've seen this number for the uninsured tossed around a lot lately. I wish we could analyze the data a bit more. For instance, I personally know of a couple folks who complain when they have to go to the doctor because it is $$ and they 'cannot afford health insurance'. I guess I find it interesting that they are always dressed to the nines, can afford nice mobile phones, gym memberships and even a * new car *- but cannot afford insurance? Before you start yelling, I realize this isn't the norm, but it does make me wonder about the data. Is there a small % of people who CHOOSE not to prioritize expenditures in order to purchase insurance?
I think everyone knows people that are like that. The only people I know who are truly that destitute live in the projects and can't afford necessities (let alone even a junk car).
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 9:31:07 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Do you have a better solution for the current healthcare climate that allows for 45-47 million Americans to go without health insurance?
I don't have to offer a "better solution" to make the point that it's not a good idea for the government to be in control of health care...
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 9:36:28 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Well, maybe now YOU were given it in the services and did not like it, but to those without any health insurance, 45-47 million Americans without health insurance - I'm sure they would take it- my neighbor would.
Who knows I had to work 16+ hours a day for less than minimum wage...
quote:
What, then, is your solution, John, to the 45-47 million Americans without health insurance? What is your solution to rising drug and services costs? What is your solution to the hard working people that have to sell their house to pay for medical costs?
Not the government...
quote:
BTW, Obama is not advocating a single payer system for health insurance - only Nader is. And, you're right - Obama is not gold - whatever that means!
Sorry for the typo... Obama is ungodly, heretic, heathen, wicked, murderer, etc.... Is that clear enough?
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 9:43:46 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
God's will in that individual's LIFE, not in general, John.
He doesn't have one for everything and everyone and another when man throws Him a curve... There is His declared will and His secretive will...
quote:
You think disobedience to God doesn't thwart God's will for your life? [I mean the universal you, not you personally, although the personal you applies to each of us too.. not just a personal accusation is what I mean here].
No... And I mean that for the universal me, me personally and if I am ever on Mars as well...
quote:
I know He doesn't give up and comes about His purposes and His will no matter what we do as He is soverign. BUT we CAN cause our own bumps in the road and pitfalls if we disobey Him. Sometimes He leaves us down there for quite awhile too. Remember Jonah? Maybe thwart was a poor choice of words, but God's will for us is not forced down our throats, it has and always will entail our obedience to it.
God will is backed by the power that created all things and raised Christ from the dead... It's not bound by the whiims of man... The collective will of every person ever born couldn't move God's hand...
His word doesn't return void....
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 9:46:44 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
They shouldn't have to have it forced on them should they? Not the Christians anyway. It's God's idea and supposedly we are all trying to follow His word as Christians. Personally I don't have alot of time to worry about anyone other than those I am taking care of, and all the forcing I'm trying to do involves the corrupt agencies at the state and local level.
Where do you get this idea that the federal government is the answer and somehow the fountain of truth and justice?
John
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 9:46:48 PM
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Stronger2day
Posts: 106
Joined: 5/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
No... And I mean that for the universal me, me personally and if I am ever on Mars as well...
Just spit out my drink....the Mars thing caught me off guard.
_____________________________
"The journey from your mind to your hands is shorter than you're thinking. Be careful if you think you stand, you just might be sinking."
(Slow Fade/Casting Crowns)
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/26/2008 11:06:44 PM
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Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly
So who can we TRUST to run a health care program? Is God capable of influencing our leaders sufficiently to produce a system that DOES work? Whether or NOT they profess to be Christian? Well we know He CAN, and has done it at times, but it that His Will in this case? I don't know... just asking.
Yes, God is capable of influencing people. It is not impossible. But do you normally go through your life making decisions that you know are not the best and then expect God to clean up the mess? Expect God to make sure everything works out because you didn't have the time to study the possible consequences? I don't think this is a very good way to go about it. Trusting in God is one thing, but it does not absolve people of their responsibility to make intelligent decisions. You yourself said the government does NOT run the programs it has now correctly, but that maybe if it's God's will universal healthcare will work? What will you say when it doesn't? That it was God's will for people all over this country to be enslaved to a corrupt government for every stitch and bandage?
You need to be honest about it. Do you think universal healthcare would be a good idea if put into action right now and the government stayed the same course as they do with medicaid and medicare?
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/27/2008 7:17:19 AM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1072
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stronger2day
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Do you have a better solution for the current healthcare climate that allows for 45-47 million Americans to go without health insurance?
Peace and God bless,
I've seen this number for the uninsured tossed around a lot lately. I wish we could analyze the data a bit more. For instance, I personally know of a couple folks who complain when they have to go to the doctor because it is $$ and they 'cannot afford health insurance'. I guess I find it interesting that they are always dressed to the nines, can afford nice mobile phones, gym memberships and even a * new car *- but cannot afford insurance? Before you start yelling, I realize this isn't the norm, but it does make me wonder about the data. Is there a small % of people who CHOOSE not to prioritize expenditures in order to purchase insurance?
Well, the people that I know without health insurance are not dressed to the nines - in fact my neighbor, who at the moment was dropped from her insurance, ran a local charity for 20+ years - a person, in my mind, deserves to have free healthcare due to the many, many people she helped over the years.
I would say the best resource to ask such questions would be the horse's mouth, US Census Bureau:
"There were 36.5 million people in poverty in 2006, not statistically different from 2005. The number of people without health insurance coverage rose from 44.8 million (15.3 percent) in 2005 to 47 million (15.8 percent) in 2006."
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/010583.html
And here is info from them on source + accuracy:
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/p60_233sa.pdf
Hope this helps, Peace and God bless,
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RE: Socialized Medical Care - 6/27/2008 7:29:39 AM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1072
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
Do you have a better solution for the current healthcare climate that allows for 45-47 million Americans to go without health insurance?
I don't have to offer a "better solution" to make the point that it's not a good idea for the government to be in control of health care...
John
John, again, the only candidate for presidency supporting a single payer system (ie, government controlling everything) is Nader - none of the other 'biggies' are.
And, again, 75% of us live in a 100% privatized healthcare system - Medicare\Medicaid cover ONLY those that are over 65 years of age; a select few disabled people below age 65 & SOME (but NOT ALL) low income peoples - facts that you can find on the Medicare\Medicaid websites themselves. My co-workers and I are average Americans - we have health insurance provided by our employer. The health insurance companies are private entities. The health clinics, hospitals that we go to are private entities. The pharmacies where we buy our medications are private entities - who buy the drugs from the big privately owned drug companies. I get my insurance thru my husband's employment because it is much better. The company I work for - my co-workers have to pay ~ $6,000 / year in health insurance - so they are left at the mercy of the privately owned health clinics, pharmacies, hospitals that over inflate the costs of medecines and services - so YES, they pay attention to how grossly overpriced medications, services are in this 100% privatized healthcare climate in the US.
And on top of this, there are 45-47 million Americans without health insuance.
Most people describe the aforementioned 100% privatized healthcare system that we live in as broken. Therefore, 100% privatized healthcare plainly does not work in this country. Now, I asked you what your solution is - please stop dodging the question.
Thank you in advance, Peace and God bless,
< Message edited by Lizahana -- 6/27/2008 7:36:30 AM >
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