CherishedbyGod wanted this (Full Version)

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1dblthnk02 -> CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 9:20:17 AM)

Okay, as requested from another thread, let's discuss my apostacy.

CherishedbyGod,
Let me start by saying that I hope you are entering into this topic cautiously. I do not want to persuade you or any other Christian (or people of other faiths, for that matter) to follow my example. Dropping the baggage of one's own religion is a very personal choice that one must make very, very carefully. I had to be sure, and it took time.
However, I also believe the same thing about entering into a religion. Thus, I did not proselytize as a Christian; that's one of the many reasons why a made a lousy one. But as far as I'm concerned, choices about religion should be personal and uncoerced by fear or other emotions.

Second, it would facilitate our discussion more if I waited to simply answer whatever questions are paramount in your mind. Besides, I don't really know where to begin!



mvic -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 9:53:14 AM)

If I may enter the discussion: albeit addressed to CherishedbyGod.

You are correct: leaving one's Faith/Religion is a personal matter.

You are correct: entering into Religion is also a personal matter.

However, I hope you can forgive Christians for trying to encourage others to follow their Faith. After all, that's what their Lord Jesus asked them to do.

I will not try to convince you to come back to Christianity. You seem to have made up your mind. However, I will pray for you. You can't stop me doing that.

God bless you.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 9:59:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic
I hope you can forgive Christians for trying to encourage others to follow their Faith. After all, that's what their Lord Jesus asked them to do.

Exactly-- it comes with the territory. There's nothing to forgive.

quote:

I will not try to convince you to come back to Christianity.

The way that I interpret the bible, it's not even supposed to be possible.

quote:

However, I will pray for you. You can't stop me doing that.

Nor would I try to.

quote:

God bless you.

Thanks.



mvic -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 10:08:40 AM)

Sorry to come back so quickly.

It IS possible for someone who has left Christianity to come back to it.

I did.

When I was young I knew it all ... so I left Christianity to the fools who want to believe in it.

As I grew up I became a fool too !!! I proved to myself that God exists, that Jesus is His only Son etc ...

Can I convince you to believe also? I doubt it.

That's why I'm still praying.

God bless.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 10:17:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic
It IS possible for someone who has left Christianity to come back to it.
I did.

Again, it comes down to personal belief. This one of those unresolvable points of theology.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 11:06:04 AM)

I havn't read your posts on other threads, so I don't know what has caused you to loose faith, but I will just tell you that Jesus really does love you and will be waiting for you with open loving arms.

I know too, that i can't conviince you that God is real. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. I too am praying for you. God Bless.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 11:39:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

Okay, as requested from another thread, let's discuss my apostacy.

CherishedbyGod,
Let me start by saying that I hope you are entering into this topic cautiously. I do not want to persuade you or any other Christian (or people of other faiths, for that matter) to follow my example. Dropping the baggage of one's own religion is a very personal choice that one must make very, very carefully. I had to be sure, and it took time.
However, I also believe the same thing about entering into a religion. Thus, I did not proselytize as a Christian; that's one of the many reasons why a made a lousy one. But as far as I'm concerned, choices about religion should be personal and uncoerced by fear or other emotions.

Second, it would facilitate our discussion more if I waited to simply answer whatever questions are paramount in your mind. Besides, I don't really know where to begin!


Hi there! Thank you for coming "up here"...I did want to ask you some more questions and the moderators probably would have come in at some point in the current events folder and told us it was off topic. However, since you and what has happened to you is much more important to me than the political scene, I wanted to pursue your comments where you stated, several times, "I am apostate".

I guess my first two questions are:

1. I am curious, since you describe yourself as apostate why you choose to post quite a bit on a Christian Forum. I think it is great you do and I know there are some atheists and agnostics that post here but, why you, if it is not too personal to ask?

2. My second question is, regarding your answer when you answered Jhud, regarding your faith, that "it was a small church". Can you elaborate on that for me? Also would you mind sharing what kind-of church it was?



Kat_D -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 11:41:28 AM)

quote:

Let me start by saying that I hope you are entering into this topic cautiously. I do not want to persuade you or any other Christian (or people of other faiths, for that matter) to follow my example.

Don't worry, you won't. For the majority here, it would take more than a disgruntled ex-Christian to take us away from the One who loves us, died for us, has a personal relationship with us, provides for us, made us free and has given us a new and abundant life in Him.

We meet people that have chosen to turn their back on the Lord every day...people who either got mad at Him about something (usually caused by their own poor choices) and turned their back on Him out of spite; were willful and didn't want to live by His rules; or just didn't "count the cost" of following Jesus Christ. While our hearts break for them, it is their choice.

I have no questions for you. Like I said, we have all met many like you and frankly, "there is nothing new under the sun"...like you said, it's a personal choice and you and you alone will have to live with the aftermath of that choice.

27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it-- 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.' -Luke 14

Like the rest of my friends here, I will pray for you. We can't do anything that will make you return to the Lord...but He can.

Edited for spelling.



Liveloved -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 1:40:17 PM)

quote:

Dropping the baggage of one's own religion


Welcome! I hope you hang around and talk about the choice you've made and why. . . I, for one, enjoy listening and learning and trying to understand. Your being truthful about yourself helps me, so thank you.

In your opening paragraph, you have said alot. This one phrase, in particular, says much. "Dropping the baggage of one's own religion" sounds like a cumbersome and uncomfortable place to be. I am glad you put it down. You are being truthful and that is the first prerequisite for knowing God. So by putting down the baggage you were carrying, you are one step closer to God than before. And since I am a believer in Jesus, you've moved in the right direction!

What led you to put it down? (Be as specific as you can be but I'll certainly understand your right to privacy as well.) Bless ya![:)] LL



rcjames -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 1:42:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:

I will not try to convince you to come back to Christianity.

The way that I interpret the bible, it's not even supposed to be possible.


Of course the very basic question exists and has not been answered;

Were you ever saved to begin with or are you like the folks in Matt 7 that thought they were sayed, but were not.

We are admonished to "Examine ourselves"

(2Co 13:5) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

And Jesus Himself speaks to "Many" who thought they were saved, but were not;

(Mat 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(Mat 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

(Mat 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Please note that these folks were "Active Christian acting folks"; they went to Church, prophesied in the Name of Jesus, cast out demons, and done many wonderful works (possibly giving to the poor, praying for folks, trying to love and care for the sick and destitute) But Christ says I never knew you.

Sad situation.

I have found in over 45 years of ministry that this in the most common experience of folks; thinking they are or were saved, when such is not the case.

Maybe all you need is Jesus.

Thanks
RC



SuspenseWriter -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 2:07:56 PM)

Agreed, RC. This whole thing rings false. If the OP truly wants nothing to do with Jesus and Christianity, why post at all on a Christian forum? Why not just knock the dust off your feet, walk away, and hang with like-minded people? The whole thrust of his post seems disingenuous at best, and utterly weird at worst.



allisonbrett -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 2:12:01 PM)

Since many of us are not aware of your reasonings for apostacy could you expand on what you believe and why? Also, if you don't mind explaining your former beliefs in the Christian faith.

Thanks! [:)]



1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 2:26:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow
I know too, that i can't conviince you that God is real. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. I too am praying for you. God Bless.

Thank you; I appreciate your kindness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
1. I am curious, since you describe yourself as apostate why you choose to post quite a bit on a Christian Forum.

Good question. What it comes down to is that I enjoy the variety of topics on this particular site, and I always like to spar with conservative Christians.
I don't mind that they disagree with me, but when they are so often very vocal, politically activist, and they almost consistently get their facts wrong (as do most far-right conservatives), I can't just stay silent.

quote:

2. My second question is, regarding your answer when you answered Jhud, regarding your faith, that "it was a small church". Can you elaborate on that for me? Also would you mind sharing what kind-of church it was?

Like I said, that was actually just my attempt at humor. Jhud was taking a pot-shot at me when I said that my intellect outgrew my faith, and he replied, "It must have been a very small faith." So, I jocularily replied, "It was a very small church," kind of like an old vaudeville routine.

In truth, I have been in several churches of various sizes and denominations, including so-called non-denominational groups. I was never Roman Catholic, or Orthodox for that matter. I have always leaned towards Evangelicalism, although I have looked into the fringe groups a few times (LDS, Watchtower, etc.)
I converted at age 11, and I was water baptized by the time I was a young adult in spite of the fact that I have always intellectually struggled with the bible and the gospel message.

What else would you like to know?



1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 2:44:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Don't worry, you won't [...]
Like the rest of my friends here, I will pray for you. We can't do anything that will make you return to the Lord...but He can.

Thank you. I would like to be frank when answering people's questions, I just don't want to evangelize-to-the-negative, so to speak.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved
I hope you hang around and talk about the choice you've made and why. . . I, for one, enjoy listening and learning and trying to understand. Your being truthful about yourself helps me, so thank you.

I'm glad to be so well-received, and I'll answer anything that I truthfully can.

(I kind of feel like I'm on a phone-in talk show . . . )

quote:

In your opening paragraph, you have said alot. This one phrase, in particular, says much. "Dropping the baggage of one's own religion" sounds like a cumbersome and uncomfortable place to be. I am glad you put it down. You are being truthful and that is the first prerequisite for knowing God. So by putting down the baggage you were carrying, you are one step closer to God than before. And since I am a believer in Jesus, you've moved in the right direction!

It's interesting that you think this; I never considered Jesus or his disciples to be non-religious people. In fact, they were very pious about their Judaism, both culturally and religiously. It was the basis of the gospel.

quote:

What led you to put it down? (Be as specific as you can be but I'll certainly understand your right to privacy as well.) Bless ya!

It happened by degrees: "line by line, precept by precept, a little bit here and a little bit there" as the bible puts it. The gospel message has a lot of appeal in certain categories, but I couldn't make sense of the big picture. The more that I studied the bible and history in general, the more I began to see some major problems.

I also have a huge problem with the religious mindset that says that it doesn't have to make sense, and in fact if the evidence seems to cast doubt onto scripture, then I am to disregard the evidence. This is intellectually irresponsible as far as I'm concerned. Sticking one's head in the sand isn't faith, at least not the kind of faith that I want anything to do with.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 2:47:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

quote:

ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow
I know too, that i can't conviince you that God is real. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. I too am praying for you. God Bless.

Thank you; I appreciate your kindness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
1. I am curious, since you describe yourself as apostate why you choose to post quite a bit on a Christian Forum.

Good question. What it comes down to is that I enjoy the variety of topics on this particular site, and I always like to spar with conservative Christians.
I don't mind that they disagree with me, but when they are so often very vocal, politically activist, and they almost consistently get their facts wrong (as do most far-right conservatives), I can't just stay silent.

quote:

2. My second question is, regarding your answer when you answered Jhud, regarding your faith, that "it was a small church". Can you elaborate on that for me? Also would you mind sharing what kind-of church it was?

Like I said, that was actually just my attempt at humor. Jhud was taking a pot-shot at me when I said that my intellect outgrew my faith, and he replied, "It must have been a very small faith." So, I jocularily replied, "It was a very small church," kind of like an old vaudeville routine.

In truth, I have been in several churches of various sizes and denominations, including so-called non-denominational groups. I was never Roman Catholic, or Orthodox for that matter. I have always leaned towards Evangelicalism, although I have looked into the fringe groups a few times (LDS, Watchtower, etc.)
I converted at age 11, and I was water baptized by the time I was a young adult in spite of the fact that I have always intellectually struggled with the bible and the gospel message.

What else would you like to know?


Thanks so much for answering me! I want to know alot more but have to take off for most of the rest of the day.

Don't take off tho, OK? I'll be back later this Pm (California time).



1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 2:58:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames
Of course the very basic question exists and has not been answered

Exactly. It's the old "Can a born-again believer ever truly lose their salvation?" conundrum.

quote:

Were you ever saved to begin with or are you like the folks in Matt 7 that thought they were sayed, but were not.

I guess that only the Lord could have answered that. He saves based on his promises, not mine. Correct?

quote:

I have found in over 45 years of ministry that this in the most common experience of folks; thinking they are or were saved, when such is not the case.

What is the litmus test for the saved? Can we really know what someone else is or is not in the eyes of God?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter
Agreed, RC. This whole thing rings false. If the OP truly wants nothing to do with Jesus and Christianity, why post at all on a Christian forum?

I never said that I don't want anything to do with Christians. I can still relate to them in a way that only another Christian could, and visa versa.

quote:

Why not just knock the dust off your feet, walk away, and hang with like-minded people? The whole thrust of his post seems disingenuous at best, and utterly weird at worst.

I'm sorry to have made you suspicous of me. I started the thread because CherishedbyGod expressed the desire for it, so I obliged. You certainly don't have to participate in it if you feel set up in any way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: allisonbrett
Since many of us are not aware of your reasonings for apostacy could you expand on what you believe and why? Also, if you don't mind explaining your former beliefs in the Christian faith.

Thanks!

Wow-- that's a tall order. I would need to write a short book to do all that. Perhaps you should break it down into some more specific questions.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 3:03:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
Thanks so much for answering me! I want to know alot more but have to take off for most of the rest of the day.
Don't take off tho, OK? I'll be back later this Pm (California time).

I'm on California time, too. Right now I've got to jump off as well, but I will certainly check back in.



atheistinpeace -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 5:25:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter

Agreed, RC. This whole thing rings false. If the OP truly wants nothing to do with Jesus and Christianity, why post at all on a Christian forum? Why not just knock the dust off your feet, walk away, and hang with like-minded people? The whole thrust of his post seems disingenuous at best, and utterly weird at worst.


This thread is for 1dblthnk02 to field questions (by the looks of things), so I'd rather let that be the case, but the point above is one I really wanted to respond to. There's nothing weird about wanting to engage with followers of a position you yourself have abandoned. I don't post on any atheist forums, simply because there's often little to be gained from agreeing with others' opinions. It's far more interesting to discuss things on which you might disagree with someone - whether or not you're trying to establish which position is factually correct (NOT the reason I'm on this site), or whether you'd simply like to understand opposing views better (and be better understood yourself - lots of misconceptions about atheism I've encountered here).

Hope that helps.

AiP



CherishedbyGod -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 7:48:58 PM)

AiP,

Thanks for that input....



CherishedbyGod -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 8:18:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

I also have a huge problem with the religious mindset that says that it doesn't have to make sense, and in fact if the evidence seems to cast doubt onto scripture, then I am to disregard the evidence. This is intellectually irresponsible as far as I'm concerned. Sticking one's head in the sand isn't faith, at least not the kind of faith that I want anything to do with.


This is mind-boggling to me that a so-called Christian would insinuate what I emboldened....

You are very brave to allow yourself to be so vulnerable and field/answer all our questions[:D] I have seen a few replies to you that come across as somewhat harsh but you seem to take them in stride quite well...

I was thinking, earlier today, how you were/are involved with quite the heated discussion with Jhud but the Lord kindof interrupted you as He has a way of doing with those He dearly loves[;)]

You have a very interesting back-ground and, it is interesting to me that you were involved in Jehovah's Witnesses and LDS. I won't go into the cult thing, but those are extremely performance-based. That, along with another post I saw of yours, makes me wonder if religion was stressed to the exclusion of relationship with God in the "churches" you were involved in...

For you post much of "religion" and it sounds as if it was quite a burden to you instead of a joyful journey that most of us have discovered? Did you ever find joy in God?

And, forgive me if this is too personal, but would you care to share with us how you "see" God now?

One more thing, for now...When I saw your reply to someone and you wrote "the Lord", I will be honest with you, that made me cry....I have to believe that was God's longing heart towards you, manifesting Himself through me.........He loves you soooo very, very much.....

Edited: I found the post by you I was looking for...on this thread...

"Thus, I did not proselytize as a Christian; that's one of the many reasons why a made a lousy one"

Can you elaborate on the quote of yours I copied?



SonInMe1 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 9:23:36 PM)

quote:

You are very brave to allow yourself to be so vulnerable and field/answer all our questions


No question.

quote:

Dropping the baggage of one's own religion


I think we all should do this, saved people that is. Before I was saved I hated religion and not much has changed. I love Jesus, not man's interpretation of Jesus. I love Him working through me, not jumping through hoops to prove my salvation to judgemental leagalists. I obey Christ, not man's church traditions.

Church is great and I even promote my church....www.cbglades.com....but church is not my God. I love my pastor's sermons and agree wiuth 99% of what he preaches but he is not Jesus Christ.

I read the bible praying for revelation. I go to a small group bible study where we learn from books written by pastors and biblical scholars but my knowledge comes from the Holy Spirit supported by the bible, not man and his "interpretations".

The bible is complete and inerrent. There is only contradiction if there is no faith in the entirity of the bible. Taking one scripture alone cannot make doctrine and many churches and denominations do this. A zeal for God is important, even key but leaning on our intellect alone willonly confuse us.

Intellect is a gift from God so we might understand all we can about God. God's mind is beyioond our ability to understand...and who would want a God we could truly and completely understand? That...would make us God.

To some questions, there are no answers. No definite answers anyways. Why does God do this and why does God do that? Fact is, I don't know and I am not so sure its important for me to know God's every decision and why he makes those decisions.

My part is faith. Its not always easy to have faith. Faith demands a trust in something that may not always be evident. Intellect demands for things to be proven, to be seen, to be touched and to be experienced. Faith points to understandings beyond our ability to...understand.

Its not really excuse making. I am far from believing in excuse making. Its believeing in something bigger than yourself. That WE are not the end all be all of existance.

I don't have all of the answers you might be looking for..and no one else here has those answers either. If you meet someone with all the answers? Run from them. They are mistaken.

Bottom line is...we want you back and you can come back. No matter how poorly we represent this, it is the bottom line of who we are and what we want. All discussions...should...be to this end.

I am not sure I can say the words that will convince you to seek the Lord again, but I pray you will. I doubt we can debate you back to God. I dobt we can prove God to you. In all probability, this thread will degenerate into exactly the opposite.

Jesus loves you. Even if we fail to represent it, we do too. You might not find all the answers you are seeking here...or even if you come back to Christ....but its the...place to be.

God bless you in your search and I pray that the truth you need to see will be provided for you.



makarizo -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/16/2008 9:54:35 PM)

Joh 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

Joh 16:13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth

I am inclined to agree with rcjames theory...... too much milk, not enough meat.

trying to think of a good question, but I can't think of one.
I always believed, but when I was 14, I had the revelation, and what happened after that, makes no sense to someone who hasn't experienced it.



Liveloved -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 1:11:48 AM)

Hey, thanks for responding to my questions! I commended you for dropping your religious baggage because that is not what God is all about and is part of the sin burden man LOVES to carry and Jesus came to do away with. Religious baggage is all the manmade junk. Give it up. Throw it out. What Jesus wants is a relationship with us. It's not about WHAT we believe. It's about WHO we believe.

So I'll ask you a very basic question. Do you see yourself as a sinner and separated from God?

I won't ask more. I'll wait until you answer. Thanks![:)] LL



BibleL7 -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 1:25:52 AM)

I find it interesting that you say you have intellectual differences with Bible. If you would care to discuss them you can PM me or email me at BibleL7@yahoo.com I personally had not found anything that contradicts the Bible or Gospel message. And since Cherished thinks you are genuine I would be interested in discussing it with you.



Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this (6/17/2008 9:35:51 AM)

This from a current events folder:
quote:


ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Intellect: Intellect alone is a dead-end street.


So is life.

quote:

As for the Christianity part: In another Thread you call yourself an "ex-Christian"; I've news for you: One is either a born-again Christian or they are not!! One may be a backsliden Christian, a fallen Christian, a Christian who has fainted, a blind Christian, A deaf Christian, a Lamed/crippled, in mind and/or spirit, Christian, a carnal/babe Christian, a non-practicing Christian, but there is no such thing as an "ex-Christian".


Well, here is a thread in the General Faith forum if you want to discuss this with me more.

1dblthnk02, Just wanted to let you know I'm here listening for now; So far, Liveloved is doing so much better at communicating with you on this subject (from my view point) than I possibly could, so I'm just going to listen-in and let the two of you continue for now.



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