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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/25/2008 7:51:33 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
Would you say a woman surviving unharmed, left laying on the floor of her house while a tornado ripped everything else up of the foundation around her as she lay there praying for and praising God for saving her, would that be a miracle to you.
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If she was spared because God answered her prayers, then yes. But, then again, I am sure that there are many, many other people who died while praying for God to save them as well. How can we know that she wasn't just flat-out lucky?
It is most likely true that people have prayed to be saved, yet still died in what ever they faced. But as a Christian, I will say that for me, there is no such thing as luck. Trying to attribute a miracle of God to luck is just a non believers way to otherwise explain away something they can not explain. God only has to show me once that He is still in the miracle business as some people say, and I do believe that He is. This is just one example.
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Would you also conclude that when she went back( i am not sure when, maybe later, maybe the next day) that in the corner laying on the bare foundation where her home used to be, sat her grandmothers bible opened to psalm 75 where it states " 3 When the earth quakes and its people live in turmoil, I am the one who keeps its foundations firm." Would that not also be a miracle in itself, and in my opinion God declaring to everyone who hears of it, that He is the reason for that miracle?
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Again, if God did it, then of course it was a miracle.
But there are a couple of other factors to consider: coincidence and apophenia. Iow, sometimes things occur together in a happy simultude, and other times we tend to see significance and order in things that are actually pure chance.
I don't know which is which in this case.
Again, if this happened all on its own, you might try to explain this away as just a coincidence. But with this along side this woman being saved from the tornado, I don't see how anyone could say this is just coincidence. Especially since it wasn't just that the bible was left there, or even that it was opened, but what passage it was open to. Like I said, to me it is a clear sign that God was letting us know that He was behind the deliverance of this woman. I would say this is clear proof that He is there and watching, and intervening at times to show us He is still here and He is real. And again, as a Christian, I don't believe in coincidence. I never have, even before I was saved.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/25/2008 8:19:32 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2340
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lufia
1dbl, i have a question. You said that once you were a believer. Did you said the sinners prayer? you certainly know what i mean.
I love your questions...so simple and sweet....
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/25/2008 8:20:16 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
In truth, I have been in several churches of various sizes and denominations, including so-called non-denominational groups. ... I have always leaned towards Evangelicalism,
I've done this too; here's my story:
Have I ever gotten angry at my Heavenly Father, God? Did you ever get angry with your flesh and blood father? Well, I did; on more then one occasion. The Last time I got angry with God, I was so... angry, I took every book, tape, picture, piece of jewelry, along with every piece of literature I could find, including My Bible, out to the Burning Barrel. I didn't ever want to hear of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or see Anything in my house that would remind me of them again.
I Got Angry and Quit!!
I said, "It's Not fair that You won't answer my prayer in this; So forget it! It's all a lie. You don't love me! It's just one big joke on me! Everybody else has a Home Church; Why Not ME? Can't You see, Can't You understand; I'm lonely? I just can't believe You Love Me! Haven't I tried? Haven't I looked? It must be true, You just Don't Love Me.!"
So I set fire to everything, which would remind me of Him. And as I did, My Heart Broke; For I Loved Him So Much; And I cried. I sat on those back steps of ours; and I cried. Heart Wrenching, Body Shaking Groans, Sobs, and Tears of pure anguish and distress.
But....
Out of the midst of the storm came God's Word,
"Peace Be Still! Though Heaven and earth shall pass away? My Word shall never pass away. For I have put my laws in your mind and written them on your heart. For you are my child. Be Still and know that I Am God. All things are possible, Only Believe."
And I knew this was truth. Once again I confessed my lack of understanding of His ways and my selfishness of wanting my way, my desire, in my timing. Once again I knew He had everything under His control, for His purpose (Our profit ... one day.) and once again, I knew He loved me!! Once again, I put my life, trust, faith in Him and His Word! Oh Yes, I've thrown my share of temper tantrums, and when I have, I've been the most miserable person this side of Hell!
Have you ever failed at anything; thrown in the towel; given up? Have you ever felt like you failed 3rd grade 17 times? I Have... And The Pain of it is beyond description! I've failed so much so, that I've been almost too embarrassed and ashamed to ask for forgiveness again... But I have, because I Know He is the only one who can forgive me and make me whole again; and He is the only one who can reason with the hearts of those I've hurt, so that they too can find forgiveness for me; for their healing from bitterness.
Pat
This is so powerful Pat, I think I know what you are talking about. May God bless you for sharing this.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/25/2008 8:25:59 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Remember, the prodigal son didn't come back for "spiritual" reasons. He came back because he was hungry. God will do that. He will birth something in a prodigal son to bring him back.
Hopefully this is why you are here.
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Well, I don't seem to go away, do I.
That is why I don't blame SuspenseWriter (post # 11, first page) for being incredulous of me. If I am done, then what am I still doing here? I'm like a ghost who haunts Christians instead of moving on. I must admit that I don't have any cleaner of an answer than to say, "I like being here."
I hope you understand that to us, it is not just a coincidence that you are here, or even like being here. I think God has brought you here so you can see from us that we all struggle at times, and even get mad at God at times, and quit on Him. But the good news is that He never quits on us. May God bless you and lead you back to Him.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/25/2008 8:44:39 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
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quote:
For one thing Christianity is not a religion; it is a personal relationship with Jesus, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who is taking us to His Father, the God of gods.
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All religions are personal relationships with deities. I don't know of any religion wherein there was no relationship with a diety, dieties, or spiritual beings of some kind. If there is not, then what you have is more of a philosophy than a religion.
You see, but a relationship entails a two way street, an exchange, and I think it would be safe to say, but don't quote me here, that the God of creation is the only one who has actually reached out to man, and offer us a personal relationship with Him. I think all other religions are one way streets that lead to a dead end.
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Personally I think if you get rid of ALL the Baggage and get back to where you left your faith, and get some straight teaching under your belt, you have the makings of a giant fighter; a twenty-first century Caleb [Numbers 13:30, and, 14:24].
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Thank you for the compliment. But who are these folks who have the straight teaching that I must get under my belt?
I'll tell you: they all do. Just ask them. They all have the real deal right there in their particular organization or denomination. Everyone else is wrong, you know. The Holy Spirit graced only those select folks of that particular set of doctrines with the truth.
You see, it turns out that God is a respecter of persons, and the Holy Spirit does not lead all Christians into all truth, and apparently Christ did not truly want all of his followers to be one.
This is baggage. The whole idea that you have to "get it right" and get under the "correct" discipleship is baggage. Who can possibly get to the truth when literally everyone is so blasted right?
I agree with you. The division in the church, the denominations and doctrines, which lead every one to think they are the only ones who have it right is really hard to understand. It is very confusing. It also leads many people away. This is why we need not bother with doctrines and denominations and do as Paul said, and focus on Christ. Thats it, focus on Him, believe in Him, lean on Him, call on His name , "For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified." as he put it.
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You must choose to believe that Christ is indeed God’s Son who died for your personal rebellion and sin. You will never be convinced or have peace with God any other way. No overwhelming proof will come your way before you make your decision.
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Well, I have found that conviction and peace remain elusive even after I made my decision. That is why I changed my mind in the first place.
Just a little insight on me. I actually said the prayer, and gave my life to the Lord when I was 21. I an going to be 32 in a few weeks, and I would say that in my faith I am 8 months old. When I spoke those words and gave my life to Him, they were empty words. I went to church for a little while, prayed and sang while I was there, but that was it, and a few months later I was done with it. I always knew it to be true, but I wasn't ready to give up my life yet. I was having to much fun in my life of sin, and I knew to be a true Christ follower, some wholesale changes needed to be made. I was not ready to make them though. It wasn't until ten years later, failed relationship after failed relationship, bad job after bad job, and being told that I should be dead by my doctor to bring me back to Him. Like I said, we all struggle, we all backslide, we all question and doubt at times, but He never quits on us. He won't quit on you.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/25/2008 9:02:55 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
How many Christians walk the walk perfectly?
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Hey, even people with a limp can still walk their walk. Others may need crutches, braces, walkers, or canes but they still manage.
As for me, I'll just take the bus . . .
Ah, you see, you are a comedian, I had a little laugh. As for how many Christians walk the walk perfectly, the answer, just one, but He was not a Christian, He was the Christ. As for the rest of us, I am sure you noticed that we all fall way short.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/25/2008 9:21:34 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
quote:
I do not believe the word of God is legend.
I don't either!!
I believe this  :
John 1:1-5,
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.
In Him was life, and that life was the Light of men.
And the Light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not.
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was the Word of God incarnate!!
John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
I also believe the OT and NT confirm and verify each other.
I agree completely Pat. I also want to add to this that Jesus is wisdom, Proverbs 8
" 22 “The Lord formed me from the beginning,
before he created anything else.
23 I was appointed in ages past,
at the very first, before the earth began.
24 I was born before the oceans were created,
before the springs bubbled forth their waters.
25 Before the mountains were formed,
before the hills, I was born—
26 before he had made the earth and fields
and the first handfuls of soil.
27 I was there when he established the heavens,
when he drew the horizon on the oceans.
28 I was there when he set the clouds above,
when he established springs deep in the earth.
29 I was there when he set the limits of the seas,
so they would not spread beyond their boundaries.
And when he marked off the earth’s foundations,
30 I was the architect at his side.
I was his constant delight,
rejoicing always in his presence.
31 And how happy I was with the world he created;
how I rejoiced with the human family!
32 “And so, my children,[a] listen to me,
for all who follow my ways are joyful.
33 Listen to my instruction and be wise.
Don’t ignore it.
34 Joyful are those who listen to me,
watching for me daily at my gates,
waiting for me outside my home!
35 For whoever finds me finds life
and receives favor from the Lord.
36 But those who miss me injure themselves.
All who hate me love death.”
< Message edited by SavedByGraceMD -- 6/25/2008 9:48:59 PM >
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/25/2008 9:32:46 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2340
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
Ah, you see, you are a comedian, I had a little laugh.
He is hysterical...
Did you see this one?
"Ah...a closet Benny Hinn fan...." quote, CherishedbyGod
"Actually, I am a fan of Benny Hinn's closet: row after row of the same suit!" - quote, Michael
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/25/2008 9:38:23 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
Ah, you see, you are a comedian, I had a little laugh.
He is hysterical...
Did you see this one?
"Ah...a closet Benny Hinn fan...." quote, CherishedbyGod
"Actually, I am a fan of Benny Hinn's closet: row after row of the same suit!" - quote, Michael
Yeah he has had some good ones. I also liked the Kooksville comment. It is a shame that he doesn't realize the gifts he has. The God given gifts, he was given so he could bring glory to God, and help lead others to Christ. I think though that the Lord is bringing him back slowly but surely. Mike just may not see it yet.
< Message edited by SavedByGraceMD -- 6/25/2008 9:49:22 PM >
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/25/2008 11:20:09 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 715
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Where did you get that; College?
No, actually many theologians, historians, and archaeologists will be quick to point out that the oldest versions of scripture have variances. For instance, the oldest versions of Mark's gospel end at verse eight. The more recents copies vary in the material that now comprise verses nine thru twenty.
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ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
Michael, I read something from Spurgeon this AM that I apply now to you... It is obvious "that Christ has not forgotten thee because thou hast not quite forgotten Him".....
Interesting . . .
I do like that one.
Btw, welcome back.
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BTW, this is not my agenda...and I am greatly saddened that you think that way of me...I certainly don't believe Michael thinks that way of me...
Michael thinks you are a kitten, my dear.
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ORIGINAL: Lufia
1dbl, i have a question. You said that once you were a believer. Did you said the sinners prayer? you certainly know what i mean.
Yes, I do. And, yes, I did.
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/26/2008 2:35:52 AM
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OneJohn410
Posts: 1230
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
Okay, as requested from another thread, let's discuss my apostacy.
CherishedbyGod,
Let me start by saying that I hope you are entering into this topic cautiously. I do not want to persuade you or any other Christian (or people of other faiths, for that matter) to follow my example. Dropping the baggage of one's own religion is a very personal choice that one must make very, very carefully. I had to be sure, and it took time.
However, I also believe the same thing about entering into a religion. Thus, I did not proselytize as a Christian; that's one of the many reasons why a made a lousy one. But as far as I'm concerned, choices about religion should be personal and uncoerced by fear or other emotions.
Second, it would facilitate our discussion more if I waited to simply answer whatever questions are paramount in your mind. Besides, I don't really know where to begin!
Hi 1dblthnk02,
We've agreed to disagree a little bit in another branch(?) of this forum, and I was just exploring around in it and came across this continuation of at topic you had going with Jhud?
Being invited by association as having read through a lot of this, I would be caller 136 (posts in this thread), or maybe split that by three... caller 45.2. Make it 45. To get the .2 I'd need to grow a pair of wings. Thank you for taking my call, if you like.
You mention intellect being a real challenge to just 'flat out' belief. I wonder if that is at all due to considering the Bible to be lacking somehow? For instance, that we can read Jesus grew up during his childhood, yet there's no Tom Sawyer or Huck Finn or any stories about what His life was like or perceived to be like by others (you did share a Mark Twain quote).
I ask this sharing that the Bible for me was a wonderful collection of neat stories about Jesus and stories about heroes and villians and God's protection and His punishment on those who opposed Him, and I could go on. It was not until I came to the end of myself, and asked the Lord to save me from my miry pit (those are really powerful things), that virtual cataracts were gone and I read and had new insight into the Bible. And so I don't view the Bible as being the absolute knowledge in my life, only with the knowledge and certainty the love Father God has for me. I don't ignore the Bible. I just no longer feel the need to explain everything by what the Bible says.
All that to ask what role the Bible has had in your life, and if you are wanting to prove you have something to believe in by reading it today, or reflecting on what all you have memorized. Actually also to ask if you've read just this one book A Case for Christianity.
In His awesome peace,
OneJohn410
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/26/2008 2:56:59 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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quote:
quote:
Can I ask what would it hurt to believe in Jesus? I mean if you said in your heart I believe, what would happen?
To you?
That's how I got where I am at today.
I'm confused 
You said to yourself I believe in Jesus, and became a ?non-believer?
Ok. your not in harm's way , right? If you hollered out your window and said I believe in Jesus , you would still be ok in the am?
Like you don't live in Iran or something, right?
humor me.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/26/2008 7:59:39 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3393
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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My advice?
Don't let christians get between you and Christ.
The bible is inerrent. People are not. Saved people are not. If someone tells you differently, they are sinning.
I've been studying and growing and..falling back...and growing some more since 1996. I doubt I know a drop of what there is to know about God...and there is a whole bunch more that we cannot know.
That is why faith is so important. Faith won't let fallable people get between you and God. Faith won't let differing interpretations confuse you. Faith will bind you to God, much more than knowledge because lets face it.
We are not God and never will be and we cannot understand it all. Gee if we understand a little, we are doing really well.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/26/2008 10:04:59 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 715
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
It is most likely true that people have prayed to be saved, yet still died in what ever they faced.
If it is a miracle when someone's life is spared in a dangerous situation while they pray, then what is it if they are not spared even though they prayed?
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But as a Christian, I will say that for me, there is no such thing as luck.
But there is chance, which is all that "luck" really is. It's playing the odds.
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Trying to attribute a miracle of God to luck is just a non believers way to otherwise explain away something they can not explain.
I could likewise say that "miracle" is just the religious answer for something that the faithful cannot explain. The church has done this throughout time: anything that they didn't have a ready answer for became an ethereal "mystery" that science would later give us the real answer to.
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But with this along side this woman being saved from the tornado, I don't see how anyone could say this is just coincidence.
Because coincidences happen, my friend. I mean, look at the whole list of those famous Lincoln/Kennedy correlations: almost too spooky to be coincidences, eh? But does that prove that there is a God or Jesus Christ?
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And again, as a Christian, I don't believe in coincidence.
And I don't believe in miracles, at least not the things that are so often attributed to the miraculous. Fair enough?
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I hope you understand that to us, it is not just a coincidence that you are here, or even like being here.
Sure, I can understand that.
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You see, but a relationship entails a two way street, an exchange, and I think it would be safe to say, but don't quote me here, that the God of creation is the only one who has actually reached out to man, and offer us a personal relationship with Him.
Let me put it this way: what god of which religion expressly did not do this? Be specific, please.
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I think all other religions are one way streets that lead to a dead end.
Define "dead end," please.
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This is why we need not bother with doctrines and denominations and do as Paul said, and focus on Christ.
But this is precisely how the different denominations got started in the first place. No one starts a different brand of Christianity because they were satisfied with what they broke away from.
We can say that the Holy Spirit inspired the Protestant movement and the Reformation, but does that signifythat the Holy Spirit was on holiday during the centuries prior?
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I was having to much fun in my life of sin
Why is it that sin is so much fun, and piousness is such a drag? Isn't Chrisitianity supposed make us rejoice in righteousness?
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Like I said, we all struggle, we all backslide, we all question and doubt at times, but He never quits on us. He won't quit on you.
Then maybe I have nothing to worry about . . . ?
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Ah, you see, you are a comedian, I had a little laugh.
Now there's a miracle for you: I am actually a sourpuss supreme. I'm trying to don humor, and it does happen occassionally. However, I am feeling a hankering to get back to the Current Events folder and start hollering at righties again.
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/26/2008 10:25:18 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 715
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneJohn410
Hi 1dblthnk02,
Hello.
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We've agreed to disagree a little bit in another branch(?) of this forum, and I was just exploring around in it and came across this continuation of at topic you had going with Jhud?
. . . Or somebody-- I think that it actually might have been JimboFletch.
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Being invited by association as having read through a lot of this, I would be caller 136 (posts in this thread), or maybe split that by three... caller 45.2. Make it 45. To get the .2 I'd need to grow a pair of wings.
That would make you a .2 angel.
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Thank you for taking my call, if you like.
No problem, caller. What's on your mind (and remember to turn down your radio, please)?
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You mention intellect being a real challenge to just 'flat out' belief. I wonder if that is at all due to considering the Bible to be lacking somehow?
That is part of it.
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All that to ask what role the Bible has had in your life, and if you are wanting to prove you have something to believe in by reading it today, or reflecting on what all you have memorized.
The bible is a great book. Imho, everyone should read it. There are parts that drag on and are difficult to follow, but a lot of it is wonderful in a very unique way. And call me a weirdo, but I love the way that the KJV reads. Reading Christ's words for the first time can be a very powerful, very moving experience. Even though I have found that the overall message of Christianity comes up short, that does not change the literary value of the book.
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Actually also to ask if you've read just this one book A Case for Christianity.
No. I have read The Case for Faith, and The Case for Christ.
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ORIGINAL: tracydolls
I'm confused
You said to yourself I believe in Jesus, and became a ?non-believer?
That is correct.
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Ok. your not in harm's way , right? If you hollered out your window and said I believe in Jesus , you would still be ok in the am?
Like you don't live in Iran or something, right?
humor me.
Sure, I could. I could also shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, but why would I do that?
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ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
My advice?
Don't let christians get between you and Christ.
The bible is inerrent. People are not. Saved people are not. If someone tells you differently, they are sinning.
Actually, isn't Christ's presence manifest where two or more gathered in his name?
Also, Hebrews 10 comes to mind: "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is"
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Faith won't let differing interpretations confuse you.
Quite frankly, that has not been my experience.
< Message edited by 1dblthnk02 -- 6/26/2008 10:31:31 AM >
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/26/2008 10:48:51 AM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2340
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
Why is it that sin is so much fun, and piousness is such a drag? Isn't Chrisitianity supposed make us rejoice in righteousness? - end quote
It is the very opposite of a drag.
No....Christianity is rejoicing in Christ and then righteousness follows...or, at least it should if it is a healthy, loving relationship between Jesus and His lover.
My friend, you have it backwards....
You mentioned going back to the current events folder. I have been meaning to tell you how much it touched me that you were defending Carol McCain against Christians that seem somewhat...uh...not quite as sensititve in that area.
That blessed me so much, Michael....
< Message edited by CherishedbyGod -- 6/26/2008 12:32:37 PM >
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/26/2008 10:49:27 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 688
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
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ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Where did you get that; College?
No, actually many theologians, historians, and archaeologists will be quick to point out that the oldest versions of scripture have variances. For instance, the oldest versions of Mark's gospel end at verse eight. The more recents copies vary in the material that now comprise verses nine thru twenty.
 "The oldest versions of scripture have variances. For instance, the oldest versions of Mark's gospel end at verse eight"?? At verse 8?? Sorry, but that would be Mark 16:8; but I do not consider the following to be a "variance":
Mark 16:9-20: These verses are missing in some of the oldest manuscripts of Mark. Most scholars believe the end of the original scroll of Mark was lost, thus later copyists wrote these verses to give an appropriate conclusion to the account. They summarize the appearances of Jesus after His resurrection which are also recorded in the other Gospels and Acts (quick brief: i.e. Mark 16:9-11 see Luke 24:11; Mark 16:12-14 see Luke 24:36-43; Mark 16:15-18 see Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:19-20 see Luke 24:50-51).
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many theologians, historians, and archaeologists will be quick to point out that the oldest versions of scripture have variances
I hope you'll forgive me for believing 'scholars' and/or 'Bible Teachers'; over "theologians, historians, and archaeologists"; who agree that :
The source of the Bible is God, and all scripture is given by the inspiration of God. “Inspiration” means that the Word was “God-breathed”, or divinely created. God purposed that it be beneficial to us as a governing or guiding factor in our lives.
11 Timothy 3:16-17 says that “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works”.
1. Who is the Author of the Word?
A. Holy Spirit
1. God used man as a vehicle to make known His revelation.
2. David, as well as Isaiah (authors of Old Testament scripture), were prompted to speak by the Holy Ghost (Acts 1:16 and Acts 28:25).
B. The Holy Ghost is the source of infallible revelation.
1. God’s Word is not devised by man’s intellect.
2. It is not subject to private interpretations (11 Peter 1:20).
II. God’s Word is a source of Power
A. Dividing power, as a “sword” (Hebrews 4:12).
B. Reflecting power, as a “mirror” (James 1:22-25).
C. Cleansing power, as “detergent” (Ephesians 5:26; John 15:3).
D. Reproductive, as a “seed” (1 Peter 1:23).
E. Nourishing power, as “food” (Milk of the Word – 1 Peter 2:2).
F. Guiding power, as a “lamp” (Psalm 119:105; 11 Peter 1:19).
G. Power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:16).
III. What will reading the Word of God do for us?
When we receive His Word and appropriate it in our lives, it produces and shall prosper that which He sends it to (Isaiah 55:11).
A. Cleanse our ways (Psalm 119:9).
B. Produces Faith (Romans 10:17).
C. Begins a process of change, and our minds come in harmony with God’s thoughts and purpose for our lives (Psalms 19:7).
D. Brings peace that we can obtain in no other way (Isaiah 55:8-12; Philippians 4:7).
IV. Is God’s Word complete in itself?
God’s Word, both Old and the New Testament, is totally complete in itself!!
A. One shall not add to, nor diminish from, the Word of God (Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32).
B. We are warned of the consequences of adding to or taking from God’s Word (Revelation 22:19).
V. The Bible is:
A. Perpetual (Matthew 5:18).
B. Eternal (1 Peter 1:25).
C. Not Bound (11 Timothy 2:9).
VI. What is the Purpose of God giving us The Bible?
A. It authenticates the divinity of Jesus Christ (John 20:31; 1 John 5:13).
B. It is an instruction manual for spiritual discernment and for living a holy, successful life before God (11 Timothy 3:16-17).
1. Doctrine
2. Reproof
3. Correction
4. Instruction in Righteousness.
The Word Of God is the standard by which something can be judged as right or wrong (Isaiah 8:19, 20). It was written for our learning (Romans 15:4), and for our admonition; training us by both instruction and warning (1 Corinthians 10:11). It is imperative that the Word of God be obeyed! Our obedience is proof of our love for Christ and it assures us of God’s love towards us (John 14:21). It is our responsibility to be a “doer”, and not only a “hearer” of God’s Word (James 1:23-25).
Pat
< Message edited by Pat-rebel_lady -- 6/26/2008 10:57:54 AM >
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/26/2008 11:06:44 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 688
Joined: 4/12/2005
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ORIGINAL: Lufia
What a great testimony! Amen and God bless you Pat
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ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
This is so powerful Pat, I think I know what you are talking about. May God bless you for sharing this.
Thank you; I had no intentions of posting that here, I haven't posted it anywhere in a long time, but for some reason out of the blue I felt lead to do so; I appreciate the kindness you have shown in mentioning it.
God bless,
Pat
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/26/2008 11:48:58 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 688
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
Gosh, Pat,
Please forgive me if I offended you! If I did, I certainly did not mean too. I was joking around with Michael.
Again, please forgive me for doing whatever I did to offend you; I certainly know not what it is 
1.) I took: "Well, there are alterations in the Word of God, my dear lady." as being laced with sarcasm; sorry if I took it wrong.
2.) I did not take what you told me: "I have been trying to figure out how to lure him" and "This thread has been a prep." as your joking around with him. But if you say they were [joking around] I'll give you the benefit of the doubt --- you are forgiven.
Pat
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/26/2008 12:02:13 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
It is most likely true that people have prayed to be saved, yet still died in what ever they faced.
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If it is a miracle when someone's life is spared in a dangerous situation while they pray, then what is it if they are not spared even though they prayed?
It is just called life. People live, and people die. But the positive is that we exercise our faith right up until the end. We pray to be saved, or to be delivered from the storm, or the sickness. Maybe when that prayer is not answered it is answered. Maybe our death is the answer. Maybe our death is the miracle that delivers us from unimaginable amounts of pain and suffering. But I am not trying to speak for God, nor am I trying to define what a miracle is. You asked for an example because you haven't seen any in the news lately, and I gave you an example which you have tried to play off as luck and coincidence.
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But as a Christian, I will say that for me, there is no such thing as luck.
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But there is chance, which is all that "luck" really is. It's playing the odds.
Thats right, it is just probabilities. If I stand on the train tracks, there is a very high probability I will get hit by a train, but if I don't, does that mean it was luck, or that my watch was fast and the 9:05 will be right on time.
Again, in our need to explain everything, we attribute clear miracles of God to just plain dumb luck. For those who don't believe in God, how can they possibly see a miracle, if they don't see the miracle worker. So they need a new way to justly explain what happens in those instances. Just because every prayer is not answered the way we want them to be, doesn't mean they are not answered.
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Trying to attribute a miracle of God to luck is just a non believers way to otherwise explain away something they can not explain.
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I could likewise say that "miracle" is just the religious answer for something that the faithful cannot explain. The church has done this throughout time: anything that they didn't have a ready answer for became an ethereal "mystery" that science would later give us the real answer to.
No we can't explain miracles either, we just recognize them when we see them, and give that glory to the one who deserves it. We don't know why they happen or why they don't happen.
But in my opinion, science tries to explain away the things of God, but has failed miserably at doing so.
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But with this along side this woman being saved from the tornado, I don't see how anyone could say this is just coincidence.
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Because coincidences happen, my friend. I mean, look at the whole list of those famous Lincoln/Kennedy correlations: almost too spooky to be coincidences, eh? But does that prove that there is a God or Jesus Christ?
Very spooky, almost enough coincidence there to deny the existence of God. It is also a coincidence that your name is Mike, and so is mine. Woah, spooky.
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And again, as a Christian, I don't believe in coincidence.
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And I don't believe in miracles, at least not the things that are so often attributed to the miraculous. Fair enough?
Nope, not at all fair, you big meanie. My attempt at humor, I know, not funny. We disagree. My eyes are open to the infinite possibilities of God, and your eyes are open to the finite possibility of man. So we will obviously see differently when it comes to this area. Like I previously said, how can you possibly see a miracle, if you don't see the miracle worker.
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You see, but a relationship entails a two way street, an exchange, and I think it would be safe to say, but don't quote me here, that the God of creation is the only one who has actually reached out to man, and offer us a personal relationship with Him.
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Let me put it this way: what god of which religion expressly did not do this? Be specific, please.
Lets take 2
Muslims and Islam- they believe Allah does not love anyone who does wrong and must earn their own way to paradise, through good works, or as some believe, the martyrs death.
So where is Allah reaching out to the Muslims in this belief. This is a one way, I must do works faith.
Hinduism-Hindus believe that through devotion, meditation, good works and self control, they will be delivered from samsara, and be reunited with Brahma. They don't believe in a personal loving God, and believe that each person is God, or a part of God.
Again, a one way street, they must earn it.
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I think all other religions are one way streets that lead to a dead end.
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Define "dead end," please.
Well dead end streets, end. These religions lead to death, because no man can earn his way into heaven.
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I was having to much fun in my life of sin
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Why is it that sin is so much fun, and piousness is such a drag? Isn't Chrisitianity supposed make us rejoice in righteousness?
Sin is fun, until it comes time to face the consequences for it. It is also very fleeting leaving only the desire for more sin.
Faith is more than just fun, faith in Christ is fulfilling, and it does make me rejoice, on a daily, hourly basis. I rejoice in knowing that my eternal life is secure in the hands of Jesus, and that His love is never ending, even though there are many times I don't deserve it. This life my friend, is not it. Death is not the end, but the beginning.
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Ah, you see, you are a comedian, I had a little laugh.
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Now there's a miracle for you: I am actually a sourpuss supreme. I'm trying to don humor, and it does happen occassionally. However, I am feeling a hankering to get back to the Current Events folder and start hollering at righties again.
Righties, hah, funny yet again.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/26/2008 12:34:57 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2340
Status: offline
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"Actually also to ask if you've read just this one book A Case for Christianity"
I wonder if this person is thinking of "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis? If you don't know, Michael, he was a very intelligent atheist....until 
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/26/2008 12:42:13 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2340
Status: offline
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quote:
Don't let christians get between you and Christ.
He hasn't...There is something worse between Christ and him...
Michael, When are you going to forgive God?
< Message edited by CherishedbyGod -- 6/26/2008 1:21:44 PM >
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