Inlaws driving us crazy (Full Version)

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michie04 -> Inlaws driving us crazy (6/16/2008 2:05:18 AM)

Hi, have been reading forums for quite a while and hope someone give some good advice.

It's a long, long story with the trouble starting a long time ago but I'll try my best to keep it short. The latest squabble was just last week.

DH's father has gone into a nursing home. DH has enough money to pay for his care, he also owns some land. This is was his choice as his health didn't allow him to live alone and his wife now deceased.

DH's sister and brother seem to be worried that somehow they will not get their expected inheritance for many reasons. Or maybe it is that they think they deserve more.

We were called into a meeting with them (DH's sis, brother and his wife).
One of the first things that came up was that Brother said that Dad told them that we had told him that we thought that they all were trying to beat us out of something...I suppose they meant the inheritance or money.

Anyways, things from then on got pretty heated. We of course were upset that they would think such a thing of us. Or that Dad would say something like that as we have never in our lives ever said such a thing. Or implied it.

I said that if they thought that badly of us that we would say such a thing that I would leave and never go back (we were at Dad's house for the meeting...he wasn't there). Brother-in-law half-heartedly said he believed me.

Then I said well, I hope they would believe me/us because all we have ever done was stay in Our Town and worked, raised our family and otherwise minded our own business. (Unlike them I might add...altho I didn't say so to them) Well, his wife the sister-in-law spoke up and said loudly..."well, we sure know that!!" I said,
what do you mean by that"?

She proceeded to lambast us for not doing enough for Dad and that they had to do all the work, etc etc.

Now I need to point out here that Brother and wife was always at DH's parents house every weekend of their lives. They have no children. They even got into farming with Dad, buying some land together and sharing equipment. They took over the bill paying, etc, when Dad went to the home a few months ago.

They (mainly Brother's wife) also have been harping for years and years about my husband not helping out with the farming and that he should feel obligated to. (We
always thought that when you were married that your own family came first and that you should concentrate on making a living for yourselves, not helping someone else make theirs.)

Back to the visit....it also came out that since Brother and his wife have been taking care of depositing checks and bill paying, that they have been apparently snooping through past checks and found where Dad had loaned our daughter 3500 dollars last year. She had written up an agreement that was signed by her Grandfather and herself that she would pay it back by the fall of this year.

Well, Brothers wife took photo copies of the cancelled check and the written agreement (which I have no idea where they found that, forgot to ask). We were very upset that they would violate our daughter's privacy in that way, as this was to be kept private between her and Grandpa. She didn't even want us to know.

Now, they then told us that supposedly Dad felt guilty about loaning her the money, so he told them to write out checks for that same amount to themselves...Sister and Brother. And that DD could pay us back instead Dad.

Most of this time Sister is sitting there not saying a word because of the back and forth early in the visit between me and her. She basically started it with telling me that I had an attitude when we came in and that we kept them waiting, etc, and that she wasn't going to take any cr_p off me. Well, that didn't sit well with me and I told her that she could stop with the intimidation tactics and that I wouldn't take anything off her and that was a FACT! She then pretty much shut up for the rest of the time and it was all between us and Brother/wife.

I will add that Brother told DH a few weeks ago that Sister and Brother's wife have also been snooping through Dad's stuff at the house and went through past phone bills to see who all he called and how often. (He has a couple lady friends and I suppose they are afraid one of them might get some money or something).

Next, the there was a meeting with all of them at the lawyer's ofc to make sure the check writing was okay and there was an issue with Dad's retirement that the retirement people were questioning since all the ck's had been going to Brother's house.

Sister brought up to the lawyer that she thought Brother and wife should be getting paid for all the extra work they do. Never mind that they already have in Dad's will that they will get their third plus extra for all the work done. Brother even had Dad put in the will that if he (Bro) should die before Dad, that his wife would get the third.

There's much more to the story. Dad has never really treated my DH nearly as well as the others, neither Grandparents paid much attention to our kids (she said once it was because Brother, number 1 son, couldn't have any....never mind that she forgot that when Sister started having kids).

We are at the point where we are about ready to tell them to take DH's part of the inheritance and just leave us alone. All we have had is this attitude from them that just because we didn't hang around Mom and Dad all our lives like them, that we are to be treated like outcasts from the family.

I personally think they are greedy, money hungry people and have wanted to push us out of the family from the beginning...esp. by Brother's wife. She's the one that has been going on and on ad nauseum about us not doing enough and we should feel obligated. And saying things in the past that weren't true.

Never mind that my husband dropped everything when they called to go to their house and fix their plumbing, etc. Or stayed all night with Dad when he was having panic attacks and would call him in the middle of the night to come. We both took him to a special doctor (200 mile round trip) on several occasions. I guess those things don't count.

Question is what would you do with a family like this? I hope to hear from you, thanks for "listening."

BTW, I always thought that an inheritance was a gift, not a right. I know that when we are gone and if there is anything to pass on, that our children will share equally...it matters not to us if one has done more than another. We love them equally.



Szaftoo -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/16/2008 9:51:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michie04
BTW, I always thought that an inheritance was a gift, not a right. I know that when we are gone and if there is anything to pass on, that our children will share equally...it matters not to us if one has done more than another. We love them equally.


Welcome.

Unfortunately money and what people expect from an inheritance have split families apart. I have friends and distant family members who haven't spoken in years because of what you describe. It starts with a comparison of who was more involved and did the most work. It then goes to who deserves it more or who needs it more. There are family meetings and all this before the person even passes away. An inheritance is money that is passed on when a person dies. It doesn't have to be family, it can be to a church a charity or friend. Bottom line is this is up to your FIL and whatever he stipulates in a will or trust.

Just my opinion, I value my relationship with my sister more than I do whatever money my parents leave me. Again, welcome.



soundDRwife -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/16/2008 10:37:28 AM)

There not much you can do with a family. Seems stuff like this always bring out the worst in people. All you can do is Pray and do to your best! Remembering your family in prayer!



michie04 -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/16/2008 12:30:25 PM)

I must say that I really don't care if I ever see these people much. That may sound harsh, but the reality is that they have never been much of a family anyway.

Brother's wife had her time on the stage in front of all the family at a "family bbq" at Easter time about 20 years ago. She basically accused my husband of not doing enough for his dad and he should be "obligated to". Of course DH's parents apparently agreed with her. It really escalated into a big argument. Of course everyone of them sides with SIL.

And I was "guilty" of trying to cause trouble because I dared to suggest that a letter she had written to us about what they wanted for an upcoming anniversary for DH's parents was out of line. She made mention in the letter what they wanted to do and we could go along with it or else if we didn't we were trouble makers. Again, they sided with SIL.

I got up from my chair and said that if they were going to argue, that I would just go home. SIL literally jumped up and down, I'm not kidding, and said "see, I told you she was guilty!" Of what? Daring to try to put a stop to HER trouble-making ways?

For all these 20 plus years, this woman has been trying causing trouble one way or another. The worst part is that the parents, her husband and now the DH's sister are believing whatever she says and allowing her to basically run things. She knows more about DH's Dads business than DH does.

DH had a half way decent relationship with his sister altho not real close, but now she has gone over to their side. My husband thinks that it's because she is just as greedy and wants to side with them because they don't have children and she hopes they'll leave their money to her children.

My parents and siblings have all passed on. It is just DH and I and our children. We would have like to have had a good relationship with his side of the family, but that seems impossible now. We are sad, but we'll make it. We have a wonderful relationship with our children and good times together. I'm not so sure but what they are all jealous about that.

My next question is would you just keep your distance from these people?
I know my DH will call his dad often in the nursing home and go see him now and then. Or do you just pretend that you don't know what they really think of you?



soundDRwife -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/16/2008 3:15:50 PM)

I would try to keep distance as much as possible. Do to the best of your ability and they don't like it,Oh well. Most of all Pray for them.



jaimestarcross -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/16/2008 5:27:26 PM)

Since there is a will --- any other talk with the family doesn't
really matter unless someone is trying to challenge or change the will... I avoid
family meetings about who should get what money... abide by the will, do not be
"guilted" into signing away your inheritance or paying a family member that the will provides money for "tending" to business matters.... I'm in charge of my mom's affairs and it's really not much to setting up bill payments through her bank account. The monthly statements come regularly and everything is in good shape. I even pay some bills online... again it's not that hard. I've eliminated writing checks.

Keep the peace by staying out of those "money talks" - all they do is
cause family tension/disharmony. Not worth the trouble.

Any legal matters need to be settled with your lawyers present.

*Speak with your daughter and get legal counsel and ask the lawyer
about the matter of repaying a loan to a elderly family member who's
in a care facility.



Szaftoo -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/16/2008 8:14:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michie04

My next question is would you just keep your distance from these people? I know my DH will call his dad often in the nursing home and go see him now and then. Or do you just pretend that you don't know what they really think of you?


This is just my opinion and only applies to me and my family. I will admit I have one difficult family member and I choose to ignore them. I am always cordial but don't get involved in arguing or drama. I think I owe it to my husband to relate to his family and get along and he really appreciates it. It's also important to me that I set a good example in front of my kids and I want them to have healthy relationships with their cousins. I try and live my life so if other people talk bad about me, no one will believe it.

I think you need to do whatever you and your husband feels works for you. You may have to keep your distance, however, understand it could hurt your husband and your kids later.



stampinlady -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/16/2008 8:48:01 PM)

quote:

Keep the peace by staying out of those "money talks" - all they do is
cause family tension/disharmony. Not worth the trouble.

Any legal matters need to be settled with your lawyers present.

*Speak with your daughter and get legal counsel and ask the lawyer
about the matter of repaying a loan to a elderly family member who's
in a care facility.


Good post and I second the paying back the loan. Get all payments and loan agreements in writing so that no one can come back and accuse you of not paying. This happened to my mother and it just added to the an already bad situation.[:'(]



michie04 -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 1:58:38 AM)

I'm glad to get your opinions, didn't know how many responses I'd get since you don't know me.

In reply to the one about seeing a lawyer about repaying the loan. I probably didn't explain in my first post very well. Since DH's brother and sister wrote themselves checks on Dad's account to equal what he had loaned our DD, they told us that she didn't need to repay it to him. But to us as that would then make us all "even".

I have to confess that we are still very angry that Brother's wife took it upon herself to make photo copies of the check and DD's letter to her grandfather promising to repay and sent a copy to DH's sister also, when all the while our DD thought this was a private agreement between her and her grandfather. Sorry if you disagree, but I think this is hideous. An invasion of privacy, really. I couldn't have done it to my niece or nephew.

It's as if they thought we were trying to get money from DH's dad through our DD or something. If we were that hard up, we would have just asked him ourselves. LOL

And as to the idea that if we were to keep our distance, it might hurt my DH and kids later. Well, they sure have inflicted a world of hurt on us over the years, but we've tried as one poster said to be cordial anyway. It sure hasn't helped us any. Also, our kids are adults and think these relatives are greedy and selfish and the aunt is a big trouble maker.



PatricksPeaches -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 2:07:39 AM)

My first thought is this, is your dad in his right mind? I ask this because maybe you could gently discuss it with him. Maybe an outside source could be brought in to mediate the situation? Don't know if that helps you but just my thoughts.



michie04 -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 2:41:00 AM)

Thanks for your post, PatricksPeaches. I'm not sure (and I'm not joking) that any of them are in their right minds really. DH's dad has told several lies over the years, DH's sister is in her late forties and has temper tantrums like a child would. The brother has been (in our opinion) brainwashed by his wife, a certified trouble-maker.

So, we don't really know if we could believe anything he says. Frankly, we don't trust any of them. Sad, isn't it?

I touched on this in another thread, but DH's parents never treated him or our children as well as the others in the family. We have never known why. We were really surprised to find out that he actually gave our DD a loan. They never so much as ever bought our children a box of pencils in all the years they were going to school and college as a show of affection.



Kat_D -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 2:43:30 AM)

Wow! What a pathetic state of affairs.

How sad for your father-in-law that his family is arguing and bickering over his money while he is laying helpless in a nursing home. I need to be honest...according to the account you gave, everyone at that meeting behaved badly. Unless I missed something, there were no innocent parties there. I hope someone can have the maturity to step up and take the high road...for your father-in-law's sake.

[sm=shakinghead.gif]



michie04 -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 2:54:09 AM)

Kat, I think you need to reread the posts if you think my DH and I are "bickering over the money".

We have never asked for any money nor will we ever. The others are the ones who are busy trying to tell us that we haven't earned what DH will supposedly receive according to the will. They want to be compensated for all the weekends of their lives that they hung onto the apron strings while we lived our own lives.

Our only problem is with the fact that we can't get them to see that we were not obligated to help his parents make a living and if his Dad chooses to include my DH in his will, well that is his business.

And the other problem is with them violating our daughter's privacy by copying personal correspondence between her and her grandfather regarding a loan she had with him.

As for poor father-in-law, he has been telling...according to BIL...lies about us. As he has done in the past.



Kat_D -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 3:09:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michie04

Kat, I think you need to reread the posts if you think my DH and I are "bickering over the money".

We have never asked for any money nor will we ever. The others are the ones who are busy trying to tell us that we haven't earned what DH will supposedly receive according to the will. They want to be compensated for all the weekends of their lives that they hung onto the apron strings while we lived our own lives.

Our only problem is with the fact that we can't get them to see that we were not obligated to help his parents make a living and if his Dad chooses to include my DH in his will, well that is his business.

And the other problem is with them violating our daughter's privacy by copying personal correspondence between her and her grandfather regarding a loan she had with him.

As for poor father-in-law, he has been telling...according to BIL...lies about us. As he has done in the past.


If I misunderstood I apologize, but from your account I still maintain that no one at that meeting took the high road of a peacemaker.

If you are a Christian, the Bible is clear about how we are to behave in a situation like the one you are faced with:

43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. -Matthew 5

10 "Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; 11 not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; 12 rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; 13 distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality. 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse." -Romans 12



michie04 -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 3:32:08 AM)

I'm not really sure what your point in all this is, Kat. With all due respect, you weren't at the meeting, so you don't really know what we said or how we acted.

And as a Christian myself, I don't really need you to tell me how I/we should have acted according to scripture. What does that have to do with the OP? As I've already said, you don't have a clue as to what we said or did so don't go jumping to wrong conclusions or judging others.



Szaftoo -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 9:44:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michie04

I'm not really sure what your point in all this is, Kat. With all due respect, you weren't at the meeting, so you don't really know what we said or how we acted.

And as a Christian myself, I don't really need you to tell me how I/we should have acted according to scripture. What does that have to do with the OP? As I've already said, you don't have a clue as to what we said or did so don't go jumping to wrong conclusions or judging others.


Michie, I hope I don't offend, however, I think Kat is basing her replies on your description of the situation. There are several references to things you said personally and many times when you threatened to leave a discussion when you didn't like the outcome. She is not judging you, she is simply make an observation and trying to help which is what you asked for in the OP.



amybreit -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 10:39:13 AM)

My dad had a similar situation in his family, when his mom died. I wasn't born yet, so i don't know all the details, but he didn't speak to most of his siblings for years while I was growing up. Most of them lived in the same small town that we did & I could've passed my aunt/uncle or cousins on the street & not even known it. It took one of his brothers getting cancer for all of them to put down their stubborn pride & get back to being a family. I pray it doesn't take something like that for your dh's family to work this out. Unfortunately, I'm not sure there is much you all can do to remedy the situation right now. Pray & make sure you don't say things you'll regret, but if they choose to act that way, really what can you do?

One other note, I would tell your dd to pay her grandfather back. If there was an agreement for her to pay your FIL, she should pay him back. Unless he specifically tells her that he has forgiven her debt to him. Just because he gave money to other family members doesn't absolve her of her debt to him.



michie04 -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 1:05:22 PM)

Okay, I will respond to a couple of things then I have to get ready to go to work.

Sorry, I haven't learned to put sentences in the quote box yet.

First to the poster that said something to the effect that "many times when you threatened to leave the discussion when you didn't like the outcome".
Frankly, I do find that sentence offensive. And what "outcome" do you speak of?

There was only one time that I said I'd leave during this conversation and that was when they were yelling at us and saying we told dad this lie that he claims we said. That was just my way of trying to get across how we wouldn't be a party to their telling these lies and if they believed it, then there was nothing more we could say. You'd have to know my BIL to get what I mean. It takes drastic measures to get thru his hard head.

And the "several references to things I said personally" were only after being yelled at and just defending myself. And I'm not sure where you get the "several" at. Again, just defending ourselves and it was definitely not a situation where you just sit there and sip your tea. Mostly, they were just questions we asked of them. Such as the one I asked of SIL about what did she mean by what she said.

And one more time...about the loan. According to the inlaws, and in agreement with DH's dad, the loan to DD is forgiven. She is to pay US back, not him since the brother and sister got the same amount.

One last thing before I go. I guess I knew when I wrote about this that there are really no answers to dealing with people who lie to you, or want to cause trouble. I guess I just wanted to vent and maybe get a little understanding/sympathy.

I really didn't stop to think that there would be those who would point out my shortcomings/mistakes. And how is that trying to help, I would add?

BTW, I'd be a fool if I said I never have made mistakes in my life. I'm sure you have too.

I'm still finding it amazing that I haven't heard anyone say how they think what they did to my DD in invading her privacy and embarrassing her
(just to refresh memories...the loan was to be kept private between her and grandpa) was hideous. And no, I don't expect there to be an answer on what to do about it....again, I guess I was just looking for agreement here.



Ps103 -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 1:32:54 PM)

Re the loan: It depends. If the sister and brother are supposed to be looking out for his financial affairs, then they have every right to look through the checks and bills and determine who your FIL owes money to, and who owes him money. That is now their job.

How they handled it may not be the best way, but considering the family dynamics, it may have been the only way--I do not know.

But I do not think they are invading her privacy in any way by "finding out" that your FIL loaned her the money. That, in and of itself, is not wrong. After he became unable to manage his own finances, there was no such thing as a "private loan."



1mlasp -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 1:53:52 PM)

Wow! Too much drama for me!

This is a sad situation. It sounds like the relationship between your husband's sister and her husband isn't so extremely bad off that it can't be restored with a bit of work if the motivation is there. At least they recognize that FIL was spreading lies about you two (if I read that correctly). I would encourage salvaging this relationship, but your husband should take the lead. It sounds like everyone in the family is content to let the women battle things out, then side with whoever argues the loudest.

As for your FIL, unless he is mentally incompetent (as I read it, he is obnoxious and troublesome, but not incompetent) he is in his right legal mind to make these financial decisions. If he has entrusted one of his sons to help him handle his financial affairs, then he has the right to do so. He may even give this son legal power of attorney. Everybody will have to accept that that is where the chips fall if that is the case.

I think it is horrible that your SIL violated your daughter's privacy with all the copies of the loan agreement. Have you considered that this is a violation of your FIL's privacy as well? But there are worse violations of privacy. I would steer clear of this sister-in-law. Also, accept that, right or wrong, the family has accepted one brother over the other and to them, you may be perceived as the troublemaking SIL.

Sucks, doesn't it? Sorry. [sm=icon_smile_sad.gif]



Kat_D -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 1:58:00 PM)

Yes, after my mother became unable to manage her own affairs, I received power of attorney for her and I definitely would have looked at a loan like that to be sure no one had been taking advantage of her. I was charged with looking out for my Mother's best interests...and a loan of that size definitely would have tweaked my interest.



michie04 -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 2:08:56 PM)

Thank you 1amlsp for your understanding. You've pretty much nailed it.

As for the power of attorney...both son's are joint powers of attorney. That includes my DH. But he has never questioned any of them or snooped through private papers, etc. Just a reminder, the loan with our DD was made last year while Grandpa was living at home on his own. He still makes his own decisions, just lets the BIL take care of his "paperwork" so to speak, since he is not at home to do it himself anymore.

How about this...the 2 SIL's snooped through FIL's phone bills for the past year or so to see how many times he called his 2 "lady friends" and are now worrying themselves sick about the fact that they might get some money out of him. It's all about the money to them. They are so afraid they won't get what they deem is due them.

Off to work now. I need to go in early today.



Karaboo2 -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 4:22:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michie04
As for the power of attorney...both son's are joint powers of attorney. That includes my DH.


How is that POA set up?? Is it set up that any decisions must be made jointly? Or can each person make decisions independently of the other?? That detail, in and of itself, can be very important in figuring how things are to be handled legally.



laura... -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 4:45:08 PM)

quote:

DH's father has gone into a nursing home. DH has enough money to pay for his care, he also owns some land.


Why would your DH plan to pay for his father's care when his father has income and owns property? Your FIL's assets should be set up to pay for any care and needs that insurance and/or Medicaid will not pay. Chances are that by the time your FIL's expenses are paid there won't be any inheritance to fight over.



daisies4u -> RE: Inlaws driving us crazy (6/17/2008 4:56:17 PM)

Wow. This is alot of drama. I am just sitting here wondering what I would do in a situation like this.

My first thought was.... I wouldn't be involved in a situation like this. In the grand scheme of things, does any of this really matter? You and your husband are not accountable to his family. They can rant and rave all they want, but you are both adults. You don't have to listen to it. As long as your husband is ok with the amount of help he has given his father, you don't owe any other family members any explanation.

If you know that family meetings are going to escalate to arguments, then don't go. You have a choice as to how involved you are in all this. Especially you, as you are the "in-law". You really don't have a say, except to be there for your husband.

The main thing is I don't understand is...if the FIL has written his will and left your husband a third of everything, there is nothing the other family members can do about it. He is a grown man and that was his decision. Who cares if the rest of the family doesn't agree? That is their perogotive. It is too late. What is the point of all the bickering? Just because the other family members are not happy with it does not mean that you should allow yourselves to be dragged into thier "drama".



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