Hiring Middle-Aged Women (Full Version)

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PaleHawkWoman -> Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/14/2008 4:56:09 PM)

This is for you men who are employers, but not limited to employers.

What criteria and advice would you give for middle-aged women who are seeking employment? I am thinking of changing jobs and my husband's first bit of advice was that I should dye my hair(it's salt-n-pepper). My hair is waist-length but I always put it up in a bun or twist, or pull it back with a barrett. I'm 48, 30 lbs overweight, but always dress and conduct myself professionally. I have a bachelor's degree from an Ivy League university, 10 yrs experience in my current position, and other varied experience in clerical, retail, and customer services. I have a wide range of knowledge and interests, get along well with others, and enjoy pitching in on a project or tackling a new challenge. I am punctual, and very seldom use a sick day. I do not gossip or get involved in personal politics in the office.

Does my silver hair and weight really matter that much?



9drtr -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/14/2008 5:58:59 PM)

It wouldn't matter to me, but it might to some.



NoShow -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/16/2008 10:24:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman

get along well with others, and enjoy pitching in on a project or tackling a new challenge. I am punctual, and very seldom use a sick day. I do not gossip or get involved in personal politics in the office.


The above are all things that I would find as assets and matter much more than:

quote:

Does my silver hair and weight really matter that much?


Not to me. But I work in accounting and finance. It could matter to others, depending on what area you're in (silly, but a reality).



sylvan -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/18/2008 11:33:11 AM)

I doubt the problem is physical. Remember this isn't a date, it's a job interview.

Nonetheless, I personally like salt-n-pepper hair. Aside from the fact that I find it personally attractive, I thing it conveys many other things such as wisdom. I think it also evokes a nurturing quality (reminiscent of mother, grandmother, comfort, trust, happy times). If I had any concern with your hair it would be the length. Don't get me wrong, I personally prefer women with long hair but I'm not sure how professional it is? I thought Meryl Streep looked great with her short gray hair in the movie The Devil Wears Prada. I guess it all depends on your potential employer though, or the person conducting the interview.

I would recommend that you work on interview skills first. Know who you're targeting and what this person/company wants to hear (or not hear) in an interview. But, don't be afraid to be yourself or a woman (feminine) either. I think women often think they have to act like men and it often doesn't translate very well. Have a game plan and be comfortable.

I'd focus on physical stuff only if it helps make you comfortable, helps give you confidence, helps you relax and sell yourself to a potential employer.



colliefan -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/18/2008 1:06:25 PM)

quote:

Does my silver hair and weight really matter that much?


If it matters to that person, it probably isn't a place where you would want to work.



Coffee_Drinker -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/18/2008 2:43:59 PM)

Hair and weight matter?

Only if it matters to you. This would be more of a self-confidence/self esteem issue than a professional issue.

I'm 51 and if you were qualified for the position and had a good work history and/or references then I would hire you. Middle aged people have much less "drama" in their lives than a younger person.



timf -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/18/2008 5:04:09 PM)

What criteria and advice would you give for middle-aged women who are seeking employment?

Depends on the type of work you are looking for. Retail sales in upscale malls may place a greater emphasis on appearance than factory work.

I admit to an employment bias in that when I was a manager, I was very reluctant to hire anyone under 30. They would have so many social and personal issues that unless they had exceptional performance it was a drain on productivity.

As an employer the first thing I looked for was an interest in the type of work. A person who likes the work usually does better than someone who has other interests.

One difficulty today is that many human resource departments do not let managers talk to employment candidates until they have met the requirements of the HR department. This in itself can be a big hurdle.

You may want to follow the two page approach of resume writing where the first page is narrative for the HR department and uses terms like empowerment, core values, diversity, and refer to education, and other politically desirable experiences, and certifications. The second page list a brief resume that focuses on work history with an emphasis on the similarities to the position for which you are applying. The HR department usually reads the first page and doesn't understand the second page. The hiring manager usually ignores the first page and focuses on the actual experience.

As long as your clothing and grooming choices are mostly conventional, you shouldn't attract negative attention. Something like a purse the size of a backpack can leave a "red flag" in the mind of an interviewer.



APZR -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/19/2008 11:17:54 AM)

Hair color or the length isn't as important as keeping your hair well kept and groomed. Don't go in looking all Hippie or like you just crawled out of the bed... that indicates a self esteem problem, and lack of motivation.

As it's been so long since your last job search and interview, it may be worth spending a few hundred bucks on an interview coach. They'll look over your resume, and help ready you for a job search.



1mlasp -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/19/2008 2:41:08 PM)

I'd hire you in a heartbeat based on your description of your work ethic.

As for the appearance (and unfortunately, we live in a society where it does matter), I don't know if dying your hair is necessary, but I would consider cutting it. A bun can appear too "matronly" with the salt-n-pepper hair, so I would change one or both. Can't envision what a twist looks like, but the barrett screams "hippie" to me with the long hair.

Investing in an interview coach is a good idea, but I would check out some on-line stuff for free first.



PaleHawkWoman -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/19/2008 4:19:31 PM)

Thanks for all of the advice. I will look into the resume format suggested.

I do keep my hair clean and neat. A twist is when the hair is pulled straight back and then rolled to meet the back of the head and pinned into place. It is very elegant in appearance especially when using fashionably-styled pins. When pulled back with a barrett, I have it curled or wavy and the barrett is stylish and elegant, an accessory to my outfit. Since my hair is kept at waist-length, it is not overly long and curling it does shorten it up to just below my shoulder blades. Mostly, I braid it and roll it into a bun or chignon, and then pin it in place with a stylish holder or pins.

I have no problems with my body- losing weight for me is more a matter of improving my health than my self-esteem. My face is fairly free of lines and if I did dye my hair I would look to be in my 30's.

My weak area is in computer applications(Quark/Excell) so I am going to enroll in classes to update all of the clerical computer application skills, includine Windows/MicroSoft office. My strength is in relating to people. I can talk to just about anyone and get along with most. I'm creative and able to take things out of the box to examine all facets and ascertain viability of this point or that one or if a facet of one set of facts can tie into a completely different issue. I enjoy research and problem-solving.

The reason middle-aged folks have less drama is because we've realized life is waaaay too short for such a waste of time and energy. I believe it was Aristotle some 3500 years ago who observed "Youth is wasted on the young." Some truths are indeed self-evident.



1mlasp -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/19/2008 4:29:11 PM)

I have to admit that I almost fell asleep during your hair explanation, it sounds more technical than the computer skills that you say you lack. [;)]

As for those, Office Team and Apple (I believe) have free online courses where you can get proficiency in various software programs. I am weak in spreadsheet programs myself, but was able to take their beginning course and demonstrate some competency with their included test. I would register with one of those agencies. Free stuff is always good.



PaleHawkWoman -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/19/2008 5:13:29 PM)

Free IS always good. I guess I feel better having someone present in the flesh to walk me thru it and explain things as I go. I'm not a computer tech-savy person, and sometimes I'd rather get a root canal than mess with a computer (this from someone who can fix a tractor and do basic car maintenance or change out the brake pads). I do appreciate the convenience of most program uses with computers, tho, and am not such a luddite that I eschew their usage. I feel unfamiliar with them and learning new things often appears more of a challenge to me then it might to most folks.

Oh, sorry about the hair thing. Good thing I wasn't trying to explain how to fit a corset or some other of the mysterious articles women sometimes wear. I'd have lost you for sure!



APZR -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/19/2008 6:22:27 PM)

quote:

(this from someone who can fix a tractor and do basic car maintenance or change out the brake pads)


Ooookay... you are HIRED!! [;)] [:D]
Seriously, don't forget to list mechanical skills in your list of talents. You'd be amazed at how many people I've let go because they couldn't figure out how to trouble shoot and "fix" a GFIC plug. Oops, the power on the computer went out, but the lights are still on... guess I can't do anything today. [:@]



colliefan -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/20/2008 4:01:23 PM)

quote:


I believe it was Aristotle some 3500 years ago who observed "Youth is wasted on the young."


I have always heard this was attributed to Mark Twain. But like all good writers, I wouldn't be surprised if he "stole" it from another source.[8D]



PaleHawkWoman -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/21/2008 3:23:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: APZR

quote:

(this from someone who can fix a tractor and do basic car maintenance or change out the brake pads)


Ooookay... you are HIRED!! [;)] [:D]
Seriously, don't forget to list mechanical skills in your list of talents. You'd be amazed at how many people I've let go because they couldn't figure out how to trouble shoot and "fix" a GFIC plug. Oops, the power on the computer went out, but the lights are still on... guess I can't do anything today. [:@]


You're kidding... someone actually doesn't know how to check a plug or fuse? I'm feeling more tech-savy already!

My husband suggested farming full-time. Right now all I have time to do is maintain the place. If I could work it full time and run it as a business, I might be able to turn a small profit. I've long wanted to replant the orchards, start a vineyard and a blueberry patch, put in some bee hives, and clear some more of the old fields for rasing corn, beans, and squash to sell at market. We have timber that has reached marketability (50-75 yr old hardwoods) and the earnings from that could be used to hire a contractor and get the place fenced off properly(our property is mostly steep hills and there is no way I can drag all the fencing supplies back up in there myself) for additional livestock grazing. Too, I'd love to make some large movable poultry coops and raise chickens for eggs and meat for the organic crowd.

It would certainly be more satisfying than working for someone else. The income would be less, and saving for retirement would be difficult. Thankfully my husband has access to health insurance thru his employer.
I'm seriously considering this. Thoughts?



PaleHawkWoman -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/21/2008 3:34:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:


I believe it was Aristotle some 3500 years ago who observed "Youth is wasted on the young."


I have always heard this was attributed to Mark Twain. But like all good writers, I wouldn't be surprised if he "stole" it from another source.[8D]


Didn't Soloman say "There is nothing new under the sun"? Ah, but truth is ageless regardless of where it comes from. If I had the choice of going back and reliving my youth or staying where I'm at with all of the wisdom and memories I've collected and the life I have now, I'd stay right where I'm at. Looking back, I'm amazed at how stupid I was as a teen and young adult. I wasted a lot of my time on stuff that wasn't worth the time it took to even notice it. Thankfully for most of us as we grow older, we develop a filter to sift out that stuff instead of getting involved in it.



tbrobinson -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/25/2008 9:13:23 PM)

First of all, having hired alot of folks, running a 600 person business unit you would be hired.

What do I look for:

1. Work ethic.
2. Responsibility
3. Humility
4. Will you fit with the team
5. Do you understand the concept of servant leadership.
6. Are you honest.

Hair, dress, etc does not matter for us.

Skills can be learned.

Just be honest in the interview and communicate that you want to grow, work with a team, and support the organization.

As for the farm, you have to do a real cost benefit analysis. Sounds like the income might be a few years off, can you wait?

God best for you and your family

tim
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman

quote:

ORIGINAL: APZR

quote:

(this from someone who can fix a tractor and do basic car maintenance or change out the brake pads)


Ooookay... you are HIRED!! [;)] [:D]
Seriously, don't forget to list mechanical skills in your list of talents. You'd be amazed at how many people I've let go because they couldn't figure out how to trouble shoot and "fix" a GFIC plug. Oops, the power on the computer went out, but the lights are still on... guess I can't do anything today. [:@]


You're kidding... someone actually doesn't know how to check a plug or fuse? I'm feeling more tech-savy already!

My husband suggested farming full-time. Right now all I have time to do is maintain the place. If I could work it full time and run it as a business, I might be able to turn a small profit. I've long wanted to replant the orchards, start a vineyard and a blueberry patch, put in some bee hives, and clear some more of the old fields for rasing corn, beans, and squash to sell at market. We have timber that has reached marketability (50-75 yr old hardwoods) and the earnings from that could be used to hire a contractor and get the place fenced off properly(our property is mostly steep hills and there is no way I can drag all the fencing supplies back up in there myself) for additional livestock grazing. Too, I'd love to make some large movable poultry coops and raise chickens for eggs and meat for the organic crowd.

It would certainly be more satisfying than working for someone else. The income would be less, and saving for retirement would be difficult. Thankfully my husband has access to health insurance thru his employer.
I'm seriously considering this. Thoughts?



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/25/2008 10:42:09 PM)

I don't own a business, or do any hiring, but my advice would be to stop worrying about your appearance, and let your credentials do the talking.



PaleHawkWoman -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/27/2008 5:10:19 PM)

I am weighing a cost and viability analysis at present. This includes applying for agricultural grants, certification classes for master or organic classifications, costs of supplies and equipment, insurance, marketing, and transportation to market in addition to time spent.

My husband does make enough money to pay our living expenses and put away some in savings, plus he has access to health insurance through his employer. Most of my income has been going to our savings accounts. We would have to tighten up just a bit, but rarely spend money on anything but absolute necessities anyway. Extras such as tickets to a Predators' home game would have to be dropped, and I wouldn't be able to afford airline tickets to fly out to see my younger daughter and my grandchildren.

It will take 3 yrs or so to turn a profit, and since it would be business losses in the interim we could claim it when filing our tax returns. I believe with very frugal management I could keep expenses down; I will not be hiring employees or buying on credit, nor will I be taking out any business loans. The land is owned free and clear, and the farm insurance is paid by the hunters who lease it for the fall hunting season. The main costs for clearing the land will be gas, gas mix, bar-and-chain oil, spare chains and some maintenance for the chainsaws; gas, oil, bearing grease, and power steering fluid for the tractor; blades for the bush hog; and gas, oil, and cord for the weed whacker. I use the spent oil to mix with kerosene for making "creosote" to coat fence posts with. The fence posts are set in concrete, so there's another expense, but not right now.

I am working with folks from the Ag Extension Office here, so I do have expert advice. I also have this in prayer before the Lord.

One of the plus's would be being able to donate fresh produce to the local food bank and some of the meal programs serving the poor and homeless. I've been using plastic peanut butter jars and making up soup-in-jar recipes which a friend's church gives out for their food pantry. Paired with Jiffy Mix cornmeal muffin or biscuit mix, (bought on sale at 25 cents a box), it provides a complete meal for a family. We've been talking about a program showing people in the inner city and other low-income areas how to put in small gardens in their yards or in boxes on their porches or windows to grow some fresh vegetables, greens, and herbs. Interestingly enough, you can use food stamps to buy the seeds for food plants. Some of the perennial plants, like bluberry bushes, are also very ornamental and have beautiful fall foliage.

BTW, gentlemen, it IS nice to know that many employers still value experience, work ethic, and attitude over youthful appearance. Thank you all for your input.



colliefan -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/28/2008 2:27:06 PM)

quote:

Extras such as tickets to a Predators' home game would have to be dropped,


You mean hockey isn't a necessity? I guess there is a good reason why I am still single. Seat selection day for the Canes next season I am still arguing with my dogs if I can justify seats in the "lower bowl" section of the RBC Center.[8|]



PaleHawkWoman -> RE: Hiring Middle-Aged Women (6/29/2008 11:08:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:

Extras such as tickets to a Predators' home game would have to be dropped,


You mean hockey isn't a necessity? I guess there is a good reason why I am still single. Seat selection day for the Canes next season I am still arguing with my dogs if I can justify seats in the "lower bowl" section of the RBC Center.[8|]


I love hockey, and love cheering my favorite team on, but that is an extra. I told my 16-yr-oldson if he wanted to go to the games he could get a job and buy the tickets himself. Welike sittin up in the top deck, as close to cell block 306 as we can get (that's where the hockey nuts sit) as they are loud, proud, and loads of fun.



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