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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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Mutatuion and selection are the mechanims of evolution. There is no doubt mutation and selection occur and they drive evolution. I don't understand how you can deny they are mechanisms.

We've been through this before. You've claimed that ID has methods and mechanisms, but you were unable to come up with anything resembling mechanisms that the Designer would have used. Do you have any new information to share about the mechanisms that ID proposes the Designer used?

Actually, I am glad you joined us - perhaps you can tell us where the words on the screen came from?

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

The methodology is cladistics.

So your little link tells us this:

Assumptions
There are three basic assumptions in cladistics:

1. Change in characteristics occurs in lineages over time.
2. Any group of organisms is related by descent from a common ancestor.
3. There is a bifurcating, or branching, pattern of lineage-splitting.

Isn't that assuming the organisms in question evolved?

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Clades are organized by synapomorphies, a list of shared features. The accuracy of the organization of any clade is the number of syanpomorphies that can be detected. Without time travel it is impossible to produce a bullet proof clade, but the fact remains that drastic violations of the accepted nested hierarchies are not seen. We do not see feathered fish.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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Clades are organized by synapomorphies, a list of shared features. The accuracy of the organization of any clade is the number of syanpomorphies that can be detected. Without time travel it is impossible to produce a bullet proof clade, but the fact remains that drastic violations of the accepted nested hierarchies are not seen. We do not see feathered fish.

But it assumes evolution.

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Synapomorphies do not. Clades are organized by shared features. It does not assume that these features were transmitted through vertical genetic transfer from a common ancestor. If the nested hierarchies did not exist then it would be impossible to produce clades within the methodology of cladistics.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
So you gave me the link, I read the link, I listed the assumptions. That list clearly shows evolution is assumed in cladistics. It is in fact the basis for cladistics.

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It is assumed that the branching is due to evolution, but evolution is not needed in order to construct the clades.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
This is dealt with. Where is your explanation for how "neuronal activity, electricity, optics" produce specific words in response to other postings?

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Neuronal activity moves the fingers. Fingers move the keys on the keyboard. Keys send electricity through the computer. Computer sends electricity through the cable. Cable sends electricity to the router. Router sends lasers to the next router. Run the order in reverse to get to your computer. Voila, words on your screen. Or do you think the words are the product of internet angels?

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
What cause the specific neuronal activity to occur in the specific way neccesary to produce the activities from which the words result? Is it random?

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External stimulation produced an unpredictable but completely natural pattern of neuronal activity

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

So in order for specific words to appear on the screen, which external stimulation of neurons must occur?

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Like I said, it is unpredictable. You can't ask for specific products from a chaotic, unpredictable process.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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Mutatuion and selection are the mechanims of evolution. There is no doubt mutation and selection occur and they drive evolution. I don't understand how you can deny they are mechanisms.

We've been through this before. You've claimed that ID has methods and mechanisms, but you were unable to come up with anything resembling mechanisms that the Designer would have used. Do you have any new information to share about the mechanisms that ID proposes the Designer used?

Actually, I am glad you joined us - perhaps you can tell us where the words on the screen came from?

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I'll take that a no -- You have no new information to share. But feel free to continue your little tap-dance.

Oh... I see you have. Good show!

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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I'll take that a no -- You have no new information to share. But feel free to continue your little tap-dance.

Oh... I see you have. Good show!

Well, as we have established, my information such as it is, is more reliable than your own, as it isn't merely an unpredictable response to external stimuli - unless you are claiming to have something more?

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You are assuming facts not in evidence here. Where do you think we've established your information was more reliable than mine? Or that my responses have a different basis than yours?

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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Like I said, it is unpredictable. You can't ask for specific products from a chaotic, unpredictable process.

Well, there you go - that is in a nutshell why my words and thoughts are more reliable than your own - mine are the product of a mind capable of choosing responses based on information provided.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
It has nothing to do with better and worse evidence, but the existence of a mind capable of discerning between the two. I have one, it appears atheists don't.

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Actually, your responses are just as unpredictable as mine.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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Actually, your responses are just as unpredictable as mine.

An unpredictable neural apparatus can't have a real opinion on the matter.

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If you want to define the discussion as "Jhud is always right" then there is really no reason to discuss.

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So I can ignore your opinion?

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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So I can ignore your opinion?

If a neural apparatus could reliably recognize an opinion to ignore, it might.