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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/14/2008 12:47:24 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6963
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
Manners go both ways. IMHO it is all right to ASK politely to have someone remove their hat, for example. But, Abiyah brings up a good point. They may have a legitimate reason for keeping their head covering on.
I remember these particular verses:
Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
-1 Corinthians 11:4-5
Still, it may be cultural. I do know that if I had come to the table with a hat on, my parents or grandparents would have, at the very least, told me to remove it. It still rankles me to see an adult male, especially over 50, sitting at a table or entering church with a hat on. However, I wouldn't say anything in either case.
Those are the verses that I was thinking of and I share your sentiments.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/14/2008 12:57:11 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1054
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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To me, it's a matter of respect, for the place where you are, or the people you are with. I also was told several times in my younger years, to take my baseball cap off indors and at the table. I took it off out of respect for where I was and who I was with. Respect like that is largely missing from our society today. As if we hadn't noticed. 
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
Manners go both ways. IMHO it is all right to ASK politely to have someone remove their hat, for example. But, Abiyah brings up a good point. They may have a legitimate reason for keeping their head covering on.
I remember these particular verses:
Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
-1 Corinthians 11:4-5
Still, it may be cultural. I do know that if I had come to the table with a hat on, my parents or grandparents would have, at the very least, told me to remove it. It still rankles me to see an adult male, especially over 50, sitting at a table or entering church with a hat on. However, I wouldn't say anything in either case.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/14/2008 1:50:54 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3642
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
-1 Corinthians 11:4-5
Well, bless you, Jimbo, my friend, but what people who read this do not understand is that when the priest went into the Temple before the L-rd, he always wore a headcovering by HaShem's command. Even when he went into the Most Holy Place, he wore a headcovering by His command. And what many forget is that when men prayed, even then, they pulled a wrap around themselves, including their heads, in order to closet themselves away before HaShem -- thus, the traditional tallit (prayer shawl or cloth head covering) finally came about in order to also carry their tzitzit (fringe). Following that, they eventually brought about the kipah, which is continually worn, because one is in constant prayer as well as constantly in the presence of the Holy One.
The priest and the people covered their heads while in prayer -- the priests by command of G-d and the people because they shut out the world and enclose themselves alone with G-d. Did Paul go against these -- even against G-d in writing that men should not cover their heads? No. Paul was talking about hair as a covering.
Yes, I know that people disagree. That's up to them.
And yes, I know that this is not a headcovering thread.
But this is in answer to things brought up under clothes worn within the congregation, and the Scripture was brought up in discussing what is and is not worn.
The historical context must be taken into consideration along with the whole Scripture.
And let me add that there are some women in my synagogue who disagree with me. I will also add that I often wear hats -- shopping, while I work, to the synagogue, etc. And when I am called to read Torah, I wear a headcovering -- not because it is biblical to do so but because it is traditional.
So if one of the men from my congregation comes to your church, public meeting, or table wearing his kipah, baseball cap, or other hat, ask. If He tells you it is out of respect for G-d, don't ask him to remove it; respect G-d by blessing him for being a brother.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/14/2008 2:15:21 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Well, bless you, Jimbo, my friend, but what people who read this do not understand is that when the priest went into the Temple before the L-rd, he always wore a headcovering by HaShem's command.....
....The historical context must be taken into consideration along with the whole Scripture.
But since this passage was written to the church at Corinth, how many of the readers do you suppose had ever served as priest, much less entered or even had seen the Temple? I'm guessing something less than one.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/14/2008 2:39:35 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3642
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
....The historical context must be taken into consideration along with the whole Scripture.
But since this passage was written to the church at Corinth, how many of the readers do you suppose had ever served as priest, much less entered or even had seen the Temple? I'm guessing something less than one.
Exactly. Thank you for seeing my point. This was to the congregation at Corinth, specifically, where the prostitutes served. This was a matter of separating the believers from the fashion of the day.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/14/2008 8:56:17 PM
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ddave12000
Posts: 77
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I remember these particular verses:
Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
-1 Corinthians 11:4-5
Still, it may be cultural. I do know that if I had come to the table with a hat on, my parents or grandparents would have, at the very least, told me to remove it. It still rankles me to see an adult male, especially over 50, sitting at a table or entering church with a hat on. However, I wouldn't say anything in either case.
One problem I see in using these verses is that no one (at least not in the circles I've been around) is requiring women to cover their heads in church, so why would we hold men to this standard?
that said, I'm of the mind that it's not polite to wear hats to places like restaurants, church, etc. Just the way I was raised.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/14/2008 11:46:42 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 501
Joined: 7/14/2005
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I've been to a few black churches and the women most certainly DO wear hats to church, and some big, elaborate ones at that.
I'd say respect the culture of the church you go to or visit so long as what is practiced is not a violation of scripture. And feel free to ask if you are not sure.
A lot of peopleI know are in house churches, and the attire is casual. My mother goes to a Methodist church and the attire is more formal among the older congregants and less formal or even casual among the youth and young adults. No one seems bothered by what others are/aren't wearing so I'd say they're more concerned with folks being there and being comfortable as they worship.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/15/2008 8:22:11 AM
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ddave12000
Posts: 77
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
I've been to a few black churches and the women most certainly DO wear hats to church, and some big, elaborate ones at that.
I've been to a lot of churches where women wore hats, but it was a cultural fashion statement, not a requirement by faith. There's a big difference.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/15/2008 2:44:40 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3397
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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I am not sure why its considered rude for a man to wear hats inside and not women...hmmm.
I do know, when men use to wear hats all the time, there was no question of ediquette.
Not to offend anyone but if clothing has a spiritual importance to you....
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/15/2008 2:46:58 PM
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ddave12000
Posts: 77
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
I am not sure why its considered rude for a man to wear hats inside and not women...hmmm.
I do know, when men use to wear hats all the time, there was no question of ediquette.
Not to offend anyone but if clothing has a spiritual importance to you....
I don't know why either, I was just raised to believe that and now I have a hard time not thinking that way when I wear a hat somewhere or see another man wearing a hat. I don't even know if it's generally considered offensive anymore.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/15/2008 2:49:57 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3397
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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When my ex and I were in the custody wars, I had a court date in the middle of the day. That meant I went there from work and was going back to work if there was time to do so.
I worked in a stone quarry. There was not time for a shower. So I wore my ball cap into court. First thing the judge says to me was...take the hat off.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/15/2008 2:51:02 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6963
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ddave12000
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
I am not sure why its considered rude for a man to wear hats inside and not women...hmmm.
I do know, when men use to wear hats all the time, there was no question of etiquette.
Not to offend anyone but if clothing has a spiritual importance to you....
I don't know why either, I was just raised to believe that and now I have a hard time not thinking that way when I wear a hat somewhere or see another man wearing a hat. I don't even know if it's generally considered offensive anymore.
When I was working, it did not bother me for a customer to wear a hat inside. However, it did bother me when they had it down over their eyes and I had to check their ID for whatever reason. Same rule applies for sunglasses in that situation.
It doesn't bother me otherwise.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/15/2008 3:04:40 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
When my ex and I were in the custody wars, I had a court date in the middle of the day. That meant I went there from work and was going back to work if there was time to do so.
I worked in a stone quarry. There was not time for a shower. So I wore my ball cap into court. First thing the judge says to me was...take the hat off.
Now that wouldn't surprise me at all - I'd expect to be called down for walking into any court with a hat or cap on.
I once heard this might even go back to the days of knights in armor. To raise the face guard showed one was a friend and an equal. To keep it lowered (like keeping a hat on) was to indicate either disdain or that one was your enemy.
Back when men wore hats most of the time (my granddads' day and earlier), tipping the hat upward (not taking it all the way off) was a form of respectful greeting. But to keep the hat on in the home, church, or even in another's office was to intentionally show disrespect.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/16/2008 10:24:01 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3553
Joined: 4/11/2005
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You are a vry pretty young lady. Do not worry, I am not an old pervert I am the woman in the photo. I have a question do you think you are more holy than I am because I like to dress in bling, and at church? My daughters usually wear jeans, that is ok, and I do not look down on them, and other young girls and boys,but, on the other hand; looking down on me, just because I like to dress nice does not seem fair either. Holiness is not associated with dress, as long as it is modest, which ever way you dress.
quote:
ORIGINAL: beachcooky
I don't know what the Bible says about what we should wear to church.
But I believe that you're there to praise God.
I mean, when you spend time with God one on one, do you dress up? I don't.
And in that case, why would we have to dress up to go to church when you just want to spend some one on one with God at church? I mean, we aren't supposed to go to church and impress people. We're there to impress God. For me? I wear hoodies and jeans. Cos that's what I wear on a normal day to day basis. And I don't think God cares about how we should dress in church. JUST DRESS MODESTLY!
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/17/2008 1:30:50 AM
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DreadPirateRandy
Posts: 7735
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I find it funny that there's twelve pages worth of conversation about clothing required for church, yet Adam and Eve both walked before God completely naked and unashamed.
God's presence isn't limited nor circumscribed to a church building. He's just as present when I'm in the shower as when I am at the altar.
_____________________________
The lunatic, the lover, and the poet, are of imagination all compact.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/17/2008 8:44:41 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3397
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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I would have no problem with the president meeting me in jeans. In fact...I would prefer that.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/17/2008 2:21:28 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3553
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Maybe I am taking this wrong, if so chalk one up to my ignorance. i think it is great to be comfy, my girls wear jeans to church all, three of them, sometimes shorts, I wear slacks, pantsuits, dressess, skirts, dress nice, because I like it. Does it make those in jeans more holy than me? I am getting like this vibe like it is more holy to dress down. Why would someone judge me for dressing nice, because I like too. I am a a girly woman.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/17/2008 2:43:23 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11501
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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quote:
Does it make those in jeans more holy than me? I am getting like this vibe like it is more holy to dress down. Why would someone judge me for dressing nice, because I like too.
I haven't gotten that vibe. I've gotten the "don't look down on me because I wear jeans" vibe and the "it doesn't matter - wear what you want" vibe, but not any of the "I'm better than you are because I'm in jeans" one.
_____________________________
Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/17/2008 3:06:44 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2936
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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I have seen people dressed up in business wear at a casual church and they looked like they felt really out of place, even if it wasn't intended.
M'love and I have gotten the slight look of envy from showing up in our motorcycle gear.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Clothes you Wear to Church - 7/18/2008 9:42:44 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1333
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
When my ex and I were in the custody wars, I had a court date in the middle of the day. That meant I went there from work and was going back to work if there was time to do so.
I worked in a stone quarry. There was not time for a shower. So I wore my ball cap into court. First thing the judge says to me was...take the hat off.
I had a court date recently for a "business issue"....here's what they had to say:
PROPER DRESS IS REQUIRED
All requirements pertain to both adult and juvenile males and females unless otherwise noted. Failure to
comply may result in the resetting of the case to a later date, or in the extreme, contempt of court:
Shoes are required.
No sleeveless shirts
No shorts (women are permitted to wear dress shorts with hosiery)
No exposed midriffs
No clothing displaying offensive words or pictures (the Court retains the exclusive right to define “offensive”
on an individual basis.
No hats
Cleanliness. (If necessary, washrooms are available in the building)
Officers of the court are held to the higher standards generally recognized in Texas Courts.
INFANTS AND SMALL CHILDREN should be left with a sitter or at home in the care of a competent adult.
There are no childcare facilities in the courthouse. Loud or crying children should be taken out of the courtroom.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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