Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and restitution?
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[Poll]
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Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and restitution?
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| No, they have not |
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| Yes, they have |
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| They have and it is a good thing |
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| They have and it is a bad thing |
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| Other |
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Total Votes : 28
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(last vote on : 6/18/2008 6:03:37 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and restitut... - 6/4/2008 10:09:07 AM
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bluestone
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I grew up hearing repentance and turning away from sin preached, as well as restitution...making amends for past offenses.
Don't hear much of that today, but do hear a great deal about signs and wonders.
What are the keys to true revival?
Will we see people repenting, making amends, or will we see miraculous and supernatural events?
_____________________________
"a fanatic is someone who can't change his mind, and won't change the subject"-Winston Churchill
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 10:18:27 AM
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JimboFletch
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When you look at the things Satan used to tempt Jesus, they seem to be variations of what are drawing many within congregations today: Appeal to the flesh and of the eyes and of pride. Sort of what the Apostle wrote in 1 John 2:16.
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 10:23:55 AM
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rcjames
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Many today seek after signs; the shaking "Holy Ghost" tree, folks who bark like dogs. or quack like a duck, rooms full of people falling down, etc. etc. ad naseum.
Revival comes through repentance and making Christ the Lord of our lives.
When Peter gave the first sermon of the Church on the Day of Pentecost, when the crowd was touched by the message of Christ the ask this question, "Men and Brethern, what shall we do?"
And Peter replied;
(Act 2:38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The answer to revival is repentance.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 10:24:24 AM
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laura...
Posts: 2705
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I voted, "No, they have not." Nothing can or will replace repentance and restitution. Signs and wonders may try to drown out the call of the Holy Spirit for repentance. They will, however, never replace. The Holy Spirit will continue to call for repentance until Christ returns.
quote:
Will we see people repenting, making amends, or will we see miraculous and supernatural events?
We will see both.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 10:34:10 AM
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Asotos
Posts: 33
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Many today seek after signs; the shaking "Holy Ghost" tree, folks who bark like dogs. or quack like a duck, rooms full of people falling down, etc. etc. ad naseum.
Revival comes through repentance and making Christ the Lord of our lives.
When Peter gave the first sermon of the Church on the Day of Pentecost, when the crowd was touched by the message of Christ the ask this question, "Men and Brethern, what shall we do?"
And Peter replied;
(Act 2:38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The answer to revival is repentance.
Thanks
RC
Totally and utterly agree... first comes faith and repentance then anything else. The path is narrow and the gate confined to salvation.
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 10:43:10 AM
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4ChristisLove
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No they haven't replaced it, but it sure is a distraction and "misuse" of the reason any healings were done in the Bible. RC is right....and my take is if any of these signs and wonders were followed with bringing people to Jesus in repentance in need of a Savior then I wouldn't feel so saddened by what is going on today.
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 11:52:04 AM
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Soxfan
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They may not have replaced, but in thise visual, experience over substance culture, they have become a major part of the church.
But remember, even satan can perform signs (Lakeland) and wonders (Brownsville)
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 11:56:16 AM
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BerianAardvark
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The basics don't change...but very often distractions come up trying to get our attention off the basics (a very basic mistake if we allow it).
"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)
Tim
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The Law is for the proud and the Gospel for the brokenhearted - Martin Luther
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 12:50:52 PM
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wintery
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Plainly, they have and it is a bad thing.
I read a letter from a man who was my pastor many years ago. He's "crusading" out of the country and in his prayer request for his S.A. crusade he said that "we must have signs and wonders".
Listen up, wonderers..."Now faith is...the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1)
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
(John 20:29)
A transformed heart IS a miracle.
P.S. Repentance may not look that great on tv....
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 1:48:11 PM
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Kat_D
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The only scripture I can find in the Bible that even speaks of "Revival" is here:
"19 Repent, therefore, and reform your lives, so that the record of your sins may be cancelled, and that there may come seasons of revival from the Lord..." -Acts 3
Guess that pretty much answers the question of what true revival should be based on, huh?
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 6/4/2008 1:54:11 PM >
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 1:57:53 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BerianAardvark
The basics don't change...but very often distractions come up trying to get our attention off the basics (a very basic mistake if we allow it).
"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)
Tim
And the answer to this is;
Repent of following after false prothest, misleaders, and the flesh.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 2:11:41 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Many today seek after signs; the shaking "Holy Ghost" tree, folks who bark like dogs. or quack like a duck, rooms full of people falling down, etc. etc. ad naseum.
Revival comes through repentance and making Christ the Lord of our lives.
When Peter gave the first sermon of the Church on the Day of Pentecost, when the crowd was touched by the message of Christ the ask this question, "Men and Brethern, what shall we do?"
And Peter replied;
(Act 2:38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The answer to revival is repentance.
Thanks
RC
Goodness, RC, an area of agreement. It's lots more fun to have experiential than intellectual belief. That business of repentence and restitution is hard and boring.
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 2:47:56 PM
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bzirk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
It's lots more fun to have experiential than intellectual belief. That business of repentence and restitution is hard and boring.
Well said.
In this amusement oriented society, it's no wonder that this is the view.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 3:36:55 PM
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Lapidoth
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WOW.
What a well-rounded out bunch we are. lol.
What excites me more?
Lot's of commotion?
Or, a quiet mass moving to the altar at a BG crusade?
Yep. Those who "heard" the gospel and responded accordingly.
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 10:24:52 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
I voted, "No, they have not." Nothing can or will replace repentance and restitution.
Good point. But I only clicked yes - I just wasn't paying attention further down and should've clicked "and it's a bad thing."
At first I wondered if it was just something that we might be observing in certain circles and it might be too reaching to say it's some kind of trend. But when you look outside the church, it's a broader issue. Looking at the big picture, yes, it's obvious that in our society, the signs and wonders, the supernatural and some really crazy new age ideas are becoming very much mainstream? Why is that? You can look back decades (or longer) and see a real shift in mainstream society or pop culture - a real diminishing of things cultish or demonic. Witchraft and new age things have been slowly brought into the mainstream: from Bewitched to the influx of downright demonic themes on television and movies today, kids' shows with everything from crystals with powers to Japanese anime and even more outright demonic themes - sorry if I might be stepping on someone's sacred Harry Potter. We've become so accustomed to such things we barely notice it anymore. Is it any wonder everyone's looking for something more, something supernatural - something powerful? Nobody wants to face what's hard or uncomfortable or unfun. If Satan can't distract a person by New Age ideas in the world (on Oprah, for example), he'll sneak the craziness into any churches he can and lead people astray that way.
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/4/2008 11:18:37 PM
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colliefan
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Anything to get peoples eyes off the cross. The cross is OK, provided it is just a peice of jewelery or is placed in front of a church; but when it cuts deep, people have two options: submit to its HS surgery or flee.
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The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/11/2008 11:16:17 AM
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bluegravel
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I voted that signs and wonders have replaced repentance and restituion - as I understood the question to mean with people - certainly not with God.
The Israelites had nothing BUT signs and wonders as they fled Egypt - first the plagues - the drowing of Pharoah's army in the Red Sea after they had passed through with the water parted on each side, manna, water from the rock and so on - AND the first chance they got, while Moses was on the Mount receiving the 10 C's, they made a golden calf with Aaron's help, and worshipped IT as their deliverer.
Don't be shocked - that is a true picture of how we are without our hearts cleansed - what we see and what we believe may not be the same thing. I have seen a few things I would acknowledge as out of the ordinary - then again, some of my life circumstances have been/are, out of the ordinary. Rather, more than anything else, I would rather have the peace of God which passes all understanding, in my heart and filling my life. The presence of God in my life, via His Holy Spirit, that assurance that He is real - that, far surpasses any 'miracle'.
I have never cared for the miraculous - I may have seen some - and perhaps I have as I do not seek it. I fear God, not angels or devils. And, I worship God - not angels or devils.
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/11/2008 3:39:33 PM
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redeemedsaint
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It seems like it. People chase miracle after miracle and not chasing after God's own heart in true repentance.
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Woody
Get off the track cause the freight train is coming - Coach Bobby Lee Duke from Facing the Giants
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/12/2008 11:54:27 PM
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rgod
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quote:
grew up hearing repentance and turning away from sin preached, as well as restitution...making amends for past offenses.
Don't hear much of that today, but do hear a great deal about signs and wonders.
What are the keys to true revival?
Will we see people repenting, making amends, or will we see miraculous and supernatural events?
It seems to me that the two can go hand-in-hand and that we shouldn't try to separate them. I don't think that there can be true revival without repentance - but it seems to me if signs and wonders accompany them, that they should glorify God and that in itself should bring provoke some sort of change in people who are seeking God - those that he has drawn.
I'm not sure why there is an outpouring of signs and wonders - but I wonder if it is due to the segregation that is practiced in American churches. I don't mean segregation by race, ethnicity, or class, but rather segregation by gift. It seems to me that in many of our churches, the "signs and wonders" types of gifts (toungues, working of miracles, healings and the like) are often explained away or that people believe that they have ceased to operate. It seems to me that this is more prevalent in the older, more established, mainline denominations. But as new denominations have sprung up (including the "non-denomination denomination"), many of them tend to embrace these giftings - sometimes I think, at the expense of the word. If you have any of these types of gifts (I have a couple of them myself), you can't express them at a mainline church but you can at the newer churches (or pentacostal churches). So as people have more freedom to operate in these areas, we see signs and wonders again in the church - although I'm pretty sure that people with these giftings always had some sort of outlet - but it was probably outside of the church for the most part. This is just speculation on my part - but I thought that I'd express this idea - I'd love to hear what others think about this.
There is also the tangential issue of the Lakeland Revival, which has been addressed in other responses to this thread, so I thought I'd share my take on this. I don't necessarily believe that Lakeland is fake or that Todd Bentley is even necessarily fake - I've been there but have not heard/seen a lot of the things that people are critizing it about. I believe that healings are taking place - and I know that God does heal miraculously today through many different people - and that a lot of it takes place when the cameras are off. But, in my opinion, I don't think that it is a revival - at least the way that I understand revival, precisely because of the issues raised in this thread. Specifically, I did not see a lot of repentance or conversions. Also, from what I understand, revivals generally just keep going and going - they don't start at 7 and end at 10 - because people are continually repenting and getting saved. But again, I could be wrong about this. So, what did I see? I saw people being encouraged in their faith - so I'd say that it is more of a healing service more than anything else. I was blessed to have gone. However, not to take away from Lakeland, but what is happening there can happen anywhere that believers meet if they allow time and space for the Holy Spirit to move freely. I once went to a church where they did just that and there were several Sundays were the congregation was led to pray for people who were sick. All of the people they prayed for were healed (and quite quickly, within a couple of weeks). I'm not saying this happens everytime someone prays - but they followed the leading and God and it happened. Everyone was greatly encouraged (I know that I definitely was).
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/14/2008 12:28:09 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Okay. I was a bad, bad girl. I had lots of restitutions. But I loved doing them! I got more joy out of doing them than I did out of a lot of other things. Based upon my experience, I have no idea why people don't encourage others to do them.
Beats me!
But the signs and wonders concepts? Bah, humbug. Gimme something real and from G-d or leave me alone.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/14/2008 10:24:45 AM
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bzirk
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Frankly, I think it can be a great sign and a wonder when people turn toward the Lord. I've seen some pretty hardened characters be radically changed by the Lord, and why that is not considered a miracle -- any salvation a miracle -- I don't understand. We're a small church, and it's not often that we have 10 people saved in a day. We've had six or seven in a day, and that was fantastic, but there was a day we had 10 (yes, they've all remained steafast in the Lord). It was a wonderful day, and then that evening my husband got a call from one of the church members, and this person was asking why we don't have people slain in the spirit at salvation. Amazing. And sad.
I think part of this need to witness signs and wonders is the result of our extremely amusement oriented society. People are bored, and sadly the church is not much different. Salvations are boring if it's just about someone making an honest confession of sin and the power of the Almighty God changing their hearts. The change better have some bells and whistles with it, so I (the witness of it) can get a spiritual high. 
Lost as he was, Cobain got it right:
Here we are now
Entertain us
< Message edited by bzirk -- 6/14/2008 10:35:25 AM >
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Have signs and wonders replaced repentance and rest... - 6/14/2008 10:48:13 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Amein!!!
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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