Advice on unmarried couple...

Advice on unmarried couple... (Full Version)

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DarleneSchreiber -> Advice on unmarried couple... (6/3/2008 12:32:34 PM)
Okay...I need some Godly advice! I'm such a worry-wart and there may be nothing to worry about but I would like you to mull this over and give me your thoughts. And, this is a serious question...I'm *not* trying to stir the pot, for once in my life! So, be nice, Cow! [:)] There is this couple that have been visiting our church. Very nice couple, intelligent, well-spoken, in their 50's (I guess). They're either divorced or widowed...don't know but they've talked about "his and her" children and grandchildren. We're having a church picnic this coming Saturday and they have expressed interest in coming. They've also spent a lot of time talking, not only to us and other members, but also the pastor. So I guess they're seriously considering joining our church. Now, here's the rub...I don't think they're married. They have different last names and neither have anything remotely resembling a wedding ring...but they do live together. But, not knowing for sure and I'm hoping I'm wrong...this is where the whole worry-wart thing comes in. IF, in fact, they are not married but "just living together", I certainly do not believe they would qualify (hate that word in this situation) for a leadership position within the church. But, here's where I'm uncertain...if they should desire it, should they even be extended the privileges of membership? We haven't had a chance to really talk about it yet, but my husband seems to think allowing them to join would be okay as long as they're not in leadership. But I guess I see it a bit differently...maybe, maybe not...I'm so unsure. While I know that their sin is not greater than my sin, as I see it, their sin would fall under the category of "habitual" sin and they would be openly living in "knowledgeable" defiance of God's law. I would liken it to accepting and allowing a homosexual 'couple' to join. I expressed my initial thoughts, but they may be wrong...and I hope so! This is one time I'd love to be wrong and have it be biblically proven to me! Thoughts? Scripture references? Help!!! [sm=unsure.gif]

elastic -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/3/2008 1:09:54 PM)
I'm not familiar with your posts, so i'm not sure if you have mentioned this somewhere else or not, but are you and your husband the pastors/leaders of the church? this is really something that should be decided by the pastor and elder leadership (as to the membership issue). i agree with you on the leadership bit, but other than that, i'm not sure if their status and whether or not they should be members is any of your business....(again, unless you are in the leadership role that decides) if you are in the leadership role that decides, and they are wanting to be members, then they should have to attend some sort of membership class, where the expectations of what the church agrees with should be laid out. they'd have to fully agree with those expectations in order to become members, and if those expectations include not living in sin, then they'd have to abide by them.

Bro_Shane -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/3/2008 1:16:40 PM)
It would make no sense to allow someone practicing unrepentant sin and open rebellion against God membership in your church. You could offer them fellowship in which to minister to them, but not membership. Think about it this way, when you become a part of a local church you are stating that you are in agreement with the doctrines and teachings of that church. Likewise, if you allowed them to join, the church would also be saying it agrees with what they are doing, which is adultery. Minister to them, but no joining until they have either repented and married or repented and gotten their own places and stop living in sin.

DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/3/2008 1:29:34 PM)
I tend to agree with you, BroShane...but really wish I was wrong! Such a sticky wicket! [:o] No, elastic, my husband is not the pastor or an elder in our church. We do coordinate the major ministry of the church, though. And, yes, I agree that it's not our decision to make....wholeheartedly, I do agree! But, if the elder board is willing to overlook something as serious as this, I'm not so sure I'd want to continue to willingly place myself under their leadership. At the very least, we would have to devote much prayer to the issue.

cow451 -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/3/2008 2:05:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber I tend to agree with you, BroShane...but really wish I was wrong! Such a sticky wicket! [:o] No, elastic, my husband is not the pastor or an elder in our church. We do coordinate the major ministry of the church, though. And, yes, I agree that it's not our decision to make....wholeheartedly, I do agree! But, if the elder board is willing to overlook something as serious as this, I'm not so sure I'd want to continue to willingly place myself under their leadership. At the very least, we would have to devote much prayer to the issue. First, salvation is an individual manner, and there is no group rate. Perhaps the pastor or someone in leadership has been visiting them (you can't drive by a SBC church without getting a home visit, LOL). And, does your church have a "covenant", i.e., rules that members agree to follow in thier personal lives (not drinking, commiting adultery with the Pastor's wife or dependents, not voting Democratic, etc.). Or, do some sins outrank others? This couple is probably more honest than the other adulterers in the congregation.

worthaboverubies -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/3/2008 3:07:36 PM)
quote: This couple is probably more honest than the other adulterers in the congregation. I don't think we realize how true this is. There is so much sex going on within the church. At least that I saw and still see. They should be allowed membership.

DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/3/2008 4:24:20 PM)
My very, very wise friend gave me the most sensible answer I could ever hope for! I don't know why I didn't come up with this myself! Oh yeah...if we always came up with the obvious, biblical answer, we wouldn't need each other, now would we? [:)] She said the elders should treat the couple as you would any erring brother or sister...straight from scripture. Then, if they are still unrepentant, you would consider them as an unbeliever. Thus, they would not be qualified for church membership. How simple is that? Just another example of the fact that God's word is not complicated or hard to understand. What say ye???

Bro_Shane -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/3/2008 4:31:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber My very, very wise friend gave me the most sensible answer I could ever hope for! I don't know why I didn't come up with this myself! Oh yeah...if we always came up with the obvious, biblical answer, we wouldn't need each other, now would we? [:)] She said the elders should treat the couple as you would any erring brother or sister...straight from scripture. Then, if they are still unrepentant, you would consider them as an unbeliever. Thus, they would not be qualified for church membership. How simple is that? Just another example of the fact that God's word is not complicated or hard to understand. What say ye??? Spot on. Regardless of what some have said, the truth and what is right does not change because those who claim to believe it it do not follow it. Truth is objective, absolute, and unchanging. Adultery is adultery no matter who engages it, and a church member's adultery does not make a non-church member's any less sinful. If there is a problem with adultery or fornication within a local congregation then it should be dealth with and not made worse by allowing even more of what's causing the problem in the body into the body. The should be spoken to with a loving heart and the goal of helping them to repent and turn from their sin so as to be able to have fellowship with both God and the congregation. If they refuse then they should be treated as an unbeliever - still oved and prayed for, but not allowed to contaminate the body by open unrepentant sin.

Qtman -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/3/2008 4:41:23 PM)
If they are in fact unmarried I agree with Bro_Shane. However I urge caution in assuming they are not married. There are numerous reasons they would still be using their own last names. Most of them financial. Make sure they are not married and then proceed.

cow451 -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/3/2008 4:56:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman If they are in fact unmarried I agree with Bro_Shane. However I urge caution in assuming they are not married. There are numerous reasons they would still be using their own last names. Most of them financial. Make sure they are not married and then proceed. Ahhhh, but it's more fun to gossip. You know "old people" can "date", too. Would the same scrutiny be applied to the nice young adult couple? Or any single adult. After all, he/she could be fornicating with a member of another church. But we all know that a single adult past thirty that has never married must be homosexual and, therefor, unworthy of membership.

DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/3/2008 5:25:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman If they are in fact unmarried I agree with Bro_Shane. However I urge caution in assuming they are not married. There are numerous reasons they would still be using their own last names. Most of them financial. Make sure they are not married and then proceed. Ahhhh, but it's more fun to gossip. You know "old people" can "date", too. Would the same scrutiny be applied to the nice young adult couple? Or any single adult. After all, he/she could be fornicating with a member of another church. But we all know that a single adult past thirty that has never married must be homosexual and, therefor, unworthy of membership. See? There you go again! You're just plain evil!!! [:D] (Love it!) Yes, Qtman...I plan to ask some "getting to know you" questions soon! I'm making a huge assumption, but I've had the same thoughts you've expressed. And, who knows? They may never come again anyway. BroShane...you're a wise man! [:)]

Bro_Shane -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/3/2008 5:41:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman If they are in fact unmarried I agree with Bro_Shane. However I urge caution in assuming they are not married. There are numerous reasons they would still be using their own last names. Most of them financial. Make sure they are not married and then proceed. Ahhhh, but it's more fun to gossip. You know "old people" can "date", too. Would the same scrutiny be applied to the nice young adult couple? Or any single adult. After all, he/she could be fornicating with a member of another church. But we all know that a single adult past thirty that has never married must be homosexual and, therefor, unworthy of membership. In my church it wouldn't matter how old the couple is. I had a woman in her twenties speak to me about joining our church. She lived with a man who was the father of her youngest child. They were making plans to be married. I told her we would love to have her join us, but it would have to be either after they were married and she had repented, or of she repented and moved out of the home. She has not been back, which is sad. On the other hand, we have had issues where people were approached about similar sin (having to do with fornication). They repented, even cam before the church and asked the help and prayer from the church. One such young woman is now married to her child's father and teaching. In the end, it is up to the person as to what they will do. We should make sure what we do is done in love and according to scripture. I agree that care should be taken not to leap to unfounded assumptions.

reillan -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/3/2008 6:39:29 PM)
I'll agree with Bro_Shane (gasp) and the others who have posted to this effect... First, you need to talk to them to find out what the story actually is. Maybe it's innocuous - they may not even like each other in that way, let alone be sleeping together. Second, if they are sleeping together, you need to offer to let them visit the church as long as they like, and provide them all the support you can, without actually extending membership to them. It may be that to see what needs to be done, they need the support of a loving church community. However, giving them a vote in how things are run, as many churches extend to their members, would be a step too far.

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/4/2008 2:29:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber There is this couple that have been visiting our church. Very nice couple, intelligent, well-spoken, in their 50's (I guess). They're either divorced or widowed. . . . Now, here's the rub...I don't think they're married. They have different last names and neither have anything remotely resembling a wedding ring...but they do live together. There is a couple I know who were in their fifties and attending a very strict church, both widowed, and both having children and grandchildren. They wore nothing even remotely resembling wedding rings also. Their neighbor-lady said they were "friends." They'd been living together about 10 years then. The fact is, however, that the couple was my husband and I, and we did not wear wedding rings because our (then) church would not allow them, because that church saw rings as sinful. Whadayado? You can't tell whether or not someone is married by the presence or absence of a ring. Some people wear wedding bands and do not honor their vows. Some wear them but are widowed. Some wear them but it is to keep people of the opposite gender at a distance. Some wear them because they are family keepsakes. Some don't wear them because of religious beliefs. Some don't wear them because they want to play the field. Some don't wear them because they can't afford them or they think them unnecessary. Some don't wear them because they were stolen (like me, for a few weeks, up until last Sunday). Wedding bands do not make a marriage official, but they sure help the married wearers for all the right reasons! What pushed us over the edge toward wearing wedding bands was that our neighbor did, indeed, think we were "friends." Now, what a testimony that is! And we had done NOTHING to make her think that -- it's just the way of the world today. Regarding your subject, I agree with Bro_Shane all the way.

rcjames -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/4/2008 9:50:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: worthaboverubies They should be allowed membership. The Church has no room for folks who are living in sin, period. Church, by definition, is a gathering of the Saints. Thanks RC

rcjames -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/4/2008 9:54:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Qtman If they are in fact unmarried I agree with Bro_Shane. However I urge caution in assuming they are not married. There are numerous reasons they would still be using their own last names. Most of them financial. Make sure they are not married and then proceed. Very good advice Qtman, many married folks do not have the same last name, and many do not wear rings (I do not wear a ring of any sort), but I am surely married for 45 years and counting. Thsnks RC

cow451 -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/4/2008 10:50:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rcjames quote: ORIGINAL: worthaboverubies They should be allowed membership. The Church has no room for folks who are living in sin, period. Church, by definition, is a gathering of the Saints. Thanks RC Sounds like a good way to keep the congregation small.[:D]

DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/4/2008 11:50:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: rcjames quote: ORIGINAL: worthaboverubies They should be allowed membership. The Church has no room for folks who are living in sin, period. Church, by definition, is a gathering of the Saints. Thanks RC Sounds like a good way to keep the congregation small.[:D] And there's nothing wrong with that...at all!

Ps103 -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/4/2008 12:15:37 PM)
quote: Now, here's the rub...I don't think they're married. I am not sure this is any of your business--particularly when your entire suspicion is based on the following: quote: They have different last names and neither have anything remotely resembling a wedding ring...but they do live together. But, not knowing for sure and I'm hoping I'm wrong...this is where the whole worry-wart thing comes in. I know plenty of married couples--particularly those who married later in life when they had careers that were established--who do not use the same last name. I know plenty of married couples where one or both do not wear wedding rings--for any one of a number of reasons. Neither of these things indicates anything untoward is going on. You said they have been talking to the pastor. I am sure their marital status or lack thereof has come up. If you cannot trust your pastor to deal with this matter (if one even exists), then you might need to look for another church[;)]

reillan -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/4/2008 12:22:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rcjames The Church has no room for folks who are living in sin, period. Church, by definition, is a gathering of the Saints. Thanks RC A church without sinners is an empty church.

cow451 -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/4/2008 12:58:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: rcjames quote: ORIGINAL: worthaboverubies They should be allowed membership. The Church has no room for folks who are living in sin, period. Church, by definition, is a gathering of the Saints. Thanks RC Sounds like a good way to keep the congregation small.[:D] And there's nothing wrong with that...at all! Can't be having them heathens dirtying up the pews. "Neither the sexually immoral nor idolators nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."--1 Corinthians 6:9-10, NIV Looks like this couple will have plenty of Christians to fellowship with... but not at your church because your church doesn't have any of these abominators.[sm=aside.gif] You and RC must go to the same church: First Church of the Pure as Driven Snow.[8\|]

CherishedbyGod -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/4/2008 1:57:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 You and RC must go to the same church: First Church of the Pure as Driven Snow.[8\|] LOL[:D]

DarleneSchreiber -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/4/2008 3:23:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ps103 quote: Now, here's the rub...I don't think they're married. I am not sure this is any of your business--particularly when your entire suspicion is based on the following: You said they have been talking to the pastor. I am sure their marital status or lack thereof has come up. If you cannot trust your pastor to deal with this matter (if one even exists), then you might need to look for another church[;)] Yes, Ms. Davis, you're absolutely correct...that particular issue is not my business and just a suspicion at this point. However, what is my business is how my elder board handles any situation, if it indeed exists. That's what we'll be watching carefully. If they're not courageous enough to stand up to openly, defiant, habitual sin, how can we trust their leadership? How can we trust they they'll be watching out for our welfare should we, ourselves, fall into some sort of willful disobedience? And, please be sure to make a note when you choose to alter other people's posts. [;)]

Bro_Shane -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/4/2008 3:26:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: rcjames quote: ORIGINAL: worthaboverubies They should be allowed membership. The Church has no room for folks who are living in sin, period. Church, by definition, is a gathering of the Saints. Thanks RC Sounds like a good way to keep the congregation small.[:D] If need be. Purity is more important than size. I can not tell whether you are being serious in your replies or not. If you are being serious, then I am troubled as to why you would assume those that aspire to lead a life that honors God - keeping in mind scripture says we are to be holy because He is holy - are mean or think we are better than others.

cow451 -> RE: Advice on unmarried couple... (6/4/2008 3:33:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: rcjames quote: ORIGINAL: worthaboverubies They should be allowed membership. The Church has no room for folks who are living in sin, period. Church, by definition, is a gathering of the Saints. Thanks RC Sounds like a good way to keep the congregation small.[:D] If need be. Purity is more important than size. I can not tell whether you are being serious in your replies or not. If you are being serious, then I am troubled as to why you would assume those that aspire to lead a life that honors God - keeping in mind scripture says we are to be holy because He is holy - are mean or think we are better than others. "Purity" is one of the hallmarks of a cult.

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