The Mind is Secondary (Full Version)

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savedforgod -> The Mind is Secondary (6/2/2008 10:46:47 PM)

Many of the Lord’s people currently commit the same error as did the saints at Corinth. The words of the Lord are spirit and life, but these people do not accept the words accordingly. They investigate theological problems with a very cold mind and search the hidden meaning of the Bible with the design of presenting the best interpretation. They satisfy their lust for knowledge. They communicate what they have found by writing and preaching. Excellent though their thoughts, arguments and outlines may be, seemingly most spiritual too, God nevertheless looks on these achievements as dead weights because they have not been achieved in the spirit. They have simply passed from one man’s mind to another man’s mind. Some readers or hearers may protest that they are helped, but the question is, what is helped? Beyond assisting the mind to acquire additional ideas, nothing else has happened. Such knowledge adds nothing to spiritual effectiveness. Only what comes from the spirit can enter the spirits of others; that which comes from the mind can only reach the minds of others. Finally, what comes from the Holy Spirit enters our spirit, and whatever the Holy Spirit transmits through our spirit can reach the spirits of others.



ta_mosquito -> RE: The Mind is Secondary (6/2/2008 10:51:53 PM)

How, in your opinion, would a sermon (or whatever method you say) "enter the spirits of others"? How do you propose we "add to spiritual effectiveness"?



Bro_Shane -> RE: The Mind is Secondary (6/3/2008 12:38:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: savedforgod

Many of the Lord’s people currently commit the same error as did the saints at Corinth. The words of the Lord are spirit and life, but these people do not accept the words accordingly. They investigate theological problems with a very cold mind and search the hidden meaning of the Bible with the design of presenting the best interpretation. They satisfy their lust for knowledge. They communicate what they have found by writing and preaching. Excellent though their thoughts, arguments and outlines may be, seemingly most spiritual too, God nevertheless looks on these achievements as dead weights because they have not been achieved in the spirit. They have simply passed from one man’s mind to another man’s mind. Some readers or hearers may protest that they are helped, but the question is, what is helped? Beyond assisting the mind to acquire additional ideas, nothing else has happened. Such knowledge adds nothing to spiritual effectiveness. Only what comes from the spirit can enter the spirits of others; that which comes from the mind can only reach the minds of others. Finally, what comes from the Holy Spirit enters our spirit, and whatever the Holy Spirit transmits through our spirit can reach the spirits of others.


Romans 10:13-17 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? [15] And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! [16] But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? [17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The emphasis is mine in the above.

Paul wrote the above under inspiration of the Holy Spirit. All scripture is God-breathed. Therefore, you and God have a fundamental disagreement. I suggest you take it up with Him.



DaveW -> RE: The Mind is Secondary (6/3/2008 6:28:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: savedforgod

Many of the Lord’s people currently commit the same error as did the saints at Corinth. The words of the Lord are spirit and life, but these people do not accept the words accordingly. They investigate theological problems with a very cold mind and search the hidden meaning of the Bible with the design of presenting the best interpretation.
Oh, you mean like the Bereans?

Act 17:10 The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue.
Act 17:11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.



pbaribeault -> RE: The Mind is Secondary (6/3/2008 3:39:35 PM)

And here I thought we were all supposed to "be transformed by the renewing of our MINDS"...



crankius -> RE: The Mind is Secondary (6/3/2008 4:42:24 PM)

I'm commanded to love the Lord with all my mind--

Mr 12:30 - And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.

If the Lord wanted me to disregard my mind, I don't imagine He would command me to love Him with all my mind.


We are to set our mind on things above, and the new man is to have renewed knowledge of Him:

Col 3:2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:10 - And have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him.


I am to put these thoughts in my mind:

Phil 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy--meditate on these things.



It is good for us to learn to rightly divide the scriptures:

2Ti 2:15 - Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.



Liveloved -> RE: The Mind is Secondary (6/3/2008 5:05:02 PM)

Isn't this the apostle Paul's point exactly (that the mind is secondary)?

Did he not love the Lord with all his mind prior to the Damascus road?

His mind was so set on things above that he was persecuting those who he thought weren't doctrinally sound.

What was Paul/Saul's mind filled with prior to the Damascus road? trash?

And don't you think Paul/Saul would have excelled in rightly dividing scripture?

There is something greater here.

Paul did not come in cleverness of speech. It was not superior speech or wisdom that he came with. His message was "not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God."

It is a wisdom that is spiritually discerned, "taught by the Spirit". "Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, and which have not entered the heart of man. All that God has prepared for those who love Him."

They are revealed through the Spirit.



JimboFletch -> RE: The Mind is Secondary (6/3/2008 5:24:04 PM)

quote:

It is a wisdom that is spiritually discerned, "taught by the Spirit".

The teacher is the Holy Spirit but that does not mean one checks their brain at the door. There is more to learning than a set of ears and/or eyes. A student must use their brains too for learning to be accomplished. (Any halfway decent teacher could tell you that much.)

Proof that spiritaul learning isn't happening in a lot of groups that emphasize the Holy Spirit's activities is the huge number of heretical doctrines that professing believers gobble up wholesale.



crankius -> RE: The Mind is Secondary (6/3/2008 5:28:58 PM)

Could Saul love the Lord with all his heart, soul, mind, and strength, and at the same time be opposed to Christ?



The truly saved are made new creations, and the Holy Spirit gives wisdom that is not the same as the wisdom of this world--but none of this means that the mind itself is to be neglected. Rather, the mind is transformed (as pbaribeault already noted):

Ro 12:2 - And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.


The carnal mind is to be neglected (Romans 8). Our "new" mind is to be renewed in the Lord and led by the Spirit.



Liveloved -> RE: The Mind is Secondary (6/3/2008 6:48:48 PM)

quote:

The teacher is the Holy Spirit but that does not mean one checks their brain at the door. There is more to learning than a set of ears and/or eyes. A student must use their brains too for learning to be accomplished. (Any halfway decent teacher could tell you that much.)

Proof that spiritaul learning isn't happening in a lot of groups that emphasize the Holy Spirit's activities is the huge number of heretical doctrines that professing believers gobble up wholesale.


NO ONE is saying we check our brains at the door.

I've been a part of the misguided mainline church.

I've been a part of the misguided charismatic church.

Where you have people you will have ALL manner of error.

But God is BIGGER than ALL and I will continue to believe that the Holy Spirit leads, teachs and guides into ALL truth.

The Apostle Paul still used his mind. I do as well. But he said there was something more.

Jesus still used his mind. But He said there was something more.

The Pharisees used their minds. They thought that was sufficient. They were wrong.

Truth is revealed and spiritually discerned. I'm not going to reject the work of the Holy Spirit just because some people err.

But if you will notice, many have the right words, the correct doctrine, but something is missing. What could it be? I say it is Jesus that is missing. And He is absolutely everything.



URForgiven -> RE: The Mind is Secondary (6/3/2008 9:47:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: savedforgod

Many of the Lord’s people currently commit the same error as did the saints at Corinth. The words of the Lord are spirit and life, but these people do not accept the words accordingly. They investigate theological problems with a very cold mind and search the hidden meaning of the Bible with the design of presenting the best interpretation. They satisfy their lust for knowledge. They communicate what they have found by writing and preaching. Excellent though their thoughts, arguments and outlines may be, seemingly most spiritual too, God nevertheless looks on these achievements as dead weights because they have not been achieved in the spirit. They have simply passed from one man’s mind to another man’s mind. Some readers or hearers may protest that they are helped, but the question is, what is helped? Beyond assisting the mind to acquire additional ideas, nothing else has happened. Such knowledge adds nothing to spiritual effectiveness. Only what comes from the spirit can enter the spirits of others; that which comes from the mind can only reach the minds of others. Finally, what comes from the Holy Spirit enters our spirit, and whatever the Holy Spirit transmits through our spirit can reach the spirits of others.


I kind of understand your sentiment, but how is it that we know and understand if not with our minds? Does not the Holy Spirit appeal and illuminate the Word to our minds?

Romans 12:2
Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

The problem is not one of attaining knowledge, but one of not attaining knowledge of the truth. It is only through the illumination of the Holy Spirit that truth can be revealed through the Word to transform our mind. Error binds us, but the truth sets us free.

Peace



BibleL7 -> RE: The Mind is Secondary (6/3/2008 11:35:50 PM)

Not quite sure savedforgod what you are trying to say, could use some clarification. But if your asking if there is a problem in the church of people following people and not the Lord and His Spirit then yes this does happen and cause divisions if this is what indeed you are referring to of the Corinth church. If you are however saying we need communicate to others with tongues and speaking through the Spirit the I think you will also see Paul corrected the Corinthians on this matter. As for the mind being secondary where else does the Spirit reside but in the mind for this is the part that is renewed when we are born again. As for teaching His word and us explaining it in words to others that is how the Lord tells us to communicate His word. For how can they believe on One of which they have not heard? How ill they hear without a preacher? and how will they preach unless they be sent? Seems fairly clear that we are to talk to others using our minds for the Spirit teaches and renews our minds and pray that the Holy Spirit open their minds to receive what is taught.



jn1010lf -> RE: The Mind is Secondary (6/4/2008 11:14:40 AM)

What? You've heard nothing about renewing your mind? You do not know that we must take on the mind of Christ? Come on now. Give yourself some slack here. Spirit, mind and body must agree, even though spirit is supposed to call the shots of life.



RJR_fan -> RE: The Mind is Secondary (6/6/2008 3:53:29 AM)

quote:

Proof that spiritaul learning isn't happening in a lot of groups that emphasize the Holy Spirit's activities is the huge number of heretical doctrines that professing believers gobble up wholesale.


The way one reputable Christian puts it, we need to work for reformation within the church, and revival in the world. The one follows the other. This gent, who wrote the book on Counterfeit Spiritual Revivals, points out how the Lakeland, Florida and Toronto events had zero impact on the communities around them. Exotic entertainments for thrill-seeking believers who got what they sought.

IMHO -- there is one big reason why someone would even start a subject like this, and consider it worth serious discussion. Most of us have had our minds trained in modes of thought that automatically set aside the Person, Son, Word, and Work of God. There is a quiet reformation underway today, composed of millions of Christians who refused to render unto Caesar that which is God's. OTOH, millions of Christians in California are cool with having their kids indoctrinated in the glories of sodomy, K-12. Do you think the children of those California Christians will take the gospel seriously, when it so obviously failed to direct the actions of their parents?



BibleL7 -> RE: The Mind is Secondary (6/8/2008 9:14:56 AM)

RJR_fan having grew up mostly in southern CA it is not likely that there are millions of christians in the state. I certainly was not when I lived there. Yet if there are that many most probably are liberal anyway. I can say that of the nearly 20 years as an adult in So Cali I never once had a Christian tell me about the Gospel.



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