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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/24/2008 9:44:47 AM
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lightshineon
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I am not, or was never a Hagee fan at all. He is condeming and screams to much. He makes fun of fat women, and he is a broad as he is tall himself. I would never want to sit in a church and be hollered at in comdenation. I know he is pro-jew though, and that is a given, he is overboard with it.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/24/2008 12:48:43 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2580
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
In view of all the controversy concerning preachers and politics, gives even more reason for the separation of church and state. Religion and politics mixes about as well as oil and water!!
Not to go off topic, but State churches, such as the State of SC, were in place when the Consitution was penned. It was a NATIONAL church such as the Church of England that was prohibited And that document does NOT contain that phrase about seperation! Just an example of how liberals have dumbed-down the educational system in the US.
As has been said, McCain never attended these churches. When made aware of the off-the wall comments of their pastors, umlike the Candy Man, he quickly disavowed them; it was only when Wright became political baggage that Barry threw him under the bus.
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/24/2008 12:52:59 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4391
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Me thinks the error liberals are making in their zeal to find something (anything) to offset the Wright fiasco is that McCain never sought Hagee's endoursment, never attended hagee's Church (not even once), and did not know of his few weird statements.
On the other hand; Obama was a member of Wright's Church for over 20 years, Obama called Wright his spiritual advisor, etc. etc. etc.
Its like trying to compare apples and oranges, but why should that matter in the liberal demokrats zeal to hide Obama's obvious long term connection to Wright.
Thanks
RC
Mr. McCain didn't seek it but he accepted it, and I believe so in order to garner some votes and now when it has showed itself not the be doing Mr. McCain any good he dumped him... Gotta love politics...
John
Please refer to the link to the NY Times interview where the very first question adressed this. Hagee himself said that McCain had sought out his endorsement.
Every major news organization, including Fox, have commented on this.
Not that I really care since I won't vote for Mr.Cain but I'll wait till he speaks... Mr. Hagee saying it doesn't make it so...
John
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/24/2008 1:02:43 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1815
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quote:
Oh yea, if Jim Lehnersaid it; it must be the gospel truth.
no I watched john Hagee say it out of own mouth.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/24/2008 1:15:51 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 728
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So, the lesson aspiring politicians should learn is:
1) Stay away from ALL televangelists and high-profile preachers from churches that tape record messages that could be used against you.
2) DON'T, under any circumstances, stay at ANY church for 20 years. That's asking for trouble because in that time any preacher that comes to the pulpit is bound to say someting stupid. Furthermore staying at a church that long makes it impossible for you to disavow the doctrine preached there. Plus, the longer you stay, the more stuff they expect from you. Instead..
3) Church hop. Stay at a church long enough to network, get some votes, then move on. No more than three years. Pick a diverse variety of churches. Never allow yourself to be catergorized as Baptist, Methodist, etc, because there is something in virtually every doctrine that could be offensive to somebody.
4) Most important of all. NEVER refer to anyone as your "spritual advisor". Don't even call him/her "your" pastor. Just call them, "that preacher dude from the church I use to go to."
- Julius
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/24/2008 1:40:24 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2580
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
Furthermore staying at a church that long makes it impossible for you to disavow the doctrine preached there
Provided sound doctrine is being proclaimed rather than poltical pablum staying at a church for 20 years should present no problem.
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/24/2008 1:56:47 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 728
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Furthermore staying at a church that long makes it impossible for you to disavow the doctrine preached there
Provided sound doctrine is being proclaimed rather than poltical pablum staying at a church for 20 years should present no problem.
Regardless of what's being preached there, "sound doctrine" (soundness is in the eye of the beholder) or not, if you stay there for 20 years, it can be a problem if for political reasons you're forced to disavow the doctrine preached there. For example, preaching against homosexuality, women in the ministry, false religions (Islam) may be "sound doctrine" to some, but in the national forum these may be radical ideas that one day will label one an extremist. If you've only attended such a church a short time, you can always claim that you weren't aware of these ideas being preached, or that when you did find out, you immediately left. Once you've been there too long, it's too late.
- Julius
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/24/2008 3:28:17 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2580
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
Regardless of what's being preached there, "sound doctrine" (soundness is in the eye of the beholder) or not, if you stay there for 20 years, it can be a problem if for political reasons you're forced to disavow the doctrine preached there
If one is disavowing it for political. rather than personal reasons, he is a shallow individual.(i.e. the Candy Man)
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/24/2008 4:00:49 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 728
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Regardless of what's being preached there, "sound doctrine" (soundness is in the eye of the beholder) or not, if you stay there for 20 years, it can be a problem if for political reasons you're forced to disavow the doctrine preached there
If one is disavowing it for political. rather than personal reasons, he is a shallow individual.(i.e. the Candy Man)
I'm trying to have a general discussion on how politicians may be forced to deal with religious icons in the future in light of the most recent events involving both Obama and McCain, and you apparently can only focus on Obama, implying that his EXACT scenario is the ONLY scenario that requires caution. Apparently at least John McCain doesn't agree with you.
- Julius
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/24/2008 4:50:20 PM
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lightshineon
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Well as far as beliefs McCain was on Ellen, who as you know is a lesbian. She ask him about same sex marriage, you could have heard a pin drop. He said, this must have been hard in the situation, that he believed marriage should be between a man and woman. That is Biblical, so it took courage, in that platform, everyone was cheering Ellen. Somethings are just main and plain, in the Christian world view. Just make sure whacky doodles, do not endorse you, or biggots, just plain old normal Christians.
< Message edited by lightshineon -- 5/24/2008 4:56:31 PM >
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/24/2008 5:22:11 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 728
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Well as far as beliefs McCain was on Ellen, who as you know is a lesbian. She ask him about same sex marriage, you could have heard a pin drop. He said, this must have been hard in the situation, that he believed marriage should be between a man and woman. That is Biblical, so it took courage, in that platform, everyone was cheering Ellen. Somethings are just main and plain, in the Christian world view. Just make sure whacky doodles, do not endorse you, or biggots, just plain old normal Christians.
In my opinion, he shouldn't have ever gone on that show. I don't see what he hoped to accomplish by helping to legitimize her as an outspoken advocate of that wicked lifestyle.
- Julius
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/24/2008 5:44:53 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3451
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You are correct, but give McCain Kuddos for standing up for truth, even when it was hard. That is one thing I admire about him, though I do not know much about him truthfully. He is straight-up, as far as I can tell. I could be wrong, but that is the impression I have gotten so far. I am not sure about other traits though. Maybe it is because he is elderly, if you ever noticed most are that way. I think it speaks to his courage, we have to give him that he was willing to lay down his life for his friends during the war. I really do not, in truth know alot about him, just observations from a cloudy view.
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Well as far as beliefs McCain was on Ellen, who as you know is a lesbian. She ask him about same sex marriage, you could have heard a pin drop. He said, this must have been hard in the situation, that he believed marriage should be between a man and woman. That is Biblical, so it took courage, in that platform, everyone was cheering Ellen. Somethings are just main and plain, in the Christian world view. Just make sure whacky doodles, do not endorse you, or biggots, just plain old normal Christians.
In my opinion, he shouldn't have ever gone on that show. I don't see what he hoped to accomplish by helping to legitimize her as an outspoken advocate of that wicked lifestyle.
- Julius
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/24/2008 6:47:24 PM
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SteveSund
Posts: 588
Joined: 11/8/2005
From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jfwink
You're absolutely right rc. Hagee and Wright are apples and oranges, but the media needed someone to offset Reverend Wright and Hagee fit the bill.
Despite knowing all sorts of things about Hagee, the media sat on this for months. The endorsement took place months ago and was thrown around various blogs for a while, but never picked up by the same media that brought up Wright. I think it is ridiculous to say that the media is trying to offset Wright. If they had wanted to do that, they would have downplayed it or never reported it. The reality is that they seem to love this kind of stuff, though I wonder why it took them so long to bring up Hagee.
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/25/2008 4:24:06 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1959
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Me thinks the error liberals are making in their zeal to find something (anything) to offset the Wright fiasco is that McCain never sought Hagee's endoursment, never attended hagee's Church (not even once), and did not know of his few weird statements.
On the other hand; Obama was a member of Wright's Church for over 20 years, Obama called Wright his spiritual advisor, etc. etc. etc.
Its like trying to compare apples and oranges, but why should that matter in the liberal demokrats zeal to hide Obama's obvious long term connection to Wright.
Thanks
RC
Erroneous statement. McCain DID actively seek both Pastor Hagee and Pastor Parsley's endorsements. That's been widely reported on by all news parties, even the dubious ones at Fox. He might not have gone to church at either one's church but he did seek out their endorsements and finding out about the controversial things they've said is as easy as doing a google search on their names.
Nice try at a dodge though.
Frankly. McCain's seeking a religious leader's endorsement is not tantamount to endorsing that leader's views. The libs have been grasping at straws comparing Hagee to Jeremiah Wright. First, Hagee has never said anything outrageously comparable to Wright's statements. Further, McCain's ties with Hagee were loose and mainly political at best.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/25/2008 5:50:53 PM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Me thinks the error liberals are making in their zeal to find something (anything) to offset the Wright fiasco is that McCain never sought Hagee's endoursment, never attended hagee's Church (not even once), and did not know of his few weird statements.
On the other hand; Obama was a member of Wright's Church for over 20 years, Obama called Wright his spiritual advisor, etc. etc. etc.
Its like trying to compare apples and oranges, but why should that matter in the liberal demokrats zeal to hide Obama's obvious long term connection to Wright.
Thanks
RC
Erroneous statement. McCain DID actively seek both Pastor Hagee and Pastor Parsley's endorsements. That's been widely reported on by all news parties, even the dubious ones at Fox. He might not have gone to church at either one's church but he did seek out their endorsements and finding out about the controversial things they've said is as easy as doing a google search on their names.
Nice try at a dodge though.
Frankly. McCain's seeking a religious leader's endorsement is not tantamount to endorsing that leader's views. The libs have been grasping at straws comparing Hagee to Jeremiah Wright. First, Hagee has never said anything outrageously comparable to Wright's statements. Further, McCain's ties with Hagee were loose and mainly political at best.
The fact remains that Pastors Hagee and Parsley have said some pretty controversial things. You can find that much out by doing a simple google search. You don't get to act all surprised if you didn't do the research.
McCain sought out the endorsement without knowing what he was getting into. It's his mea culpa and no one else's.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/26/2008 5:07:43 AM
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staticspark1947
Posts: 34
Joined: 6/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
In view of all the controversy concerning preachers and politics, gives even more reason for the separation of church and state. Religion and politics mixes about as well as oil and water!!
Not to go off topic, but State churches, such as the State of SC, were in place when the Consitution was penned. It was a NATIONAL church such as the Church of England that was prohibited And that document does NOT contain that phrase about seperation! Just an example of how liberals have dumbed-down the educational system in the US.
As has been said, McCain never attended these churches. When made aware of the off-the wall comments of their pastors, umlike the Candy Man, he quickly disavowed them; it was only when Wright became political baggage that Barry threw him under the bus.
It's all in the interpretation. I stand my ground that religion and politics do not mix!!
_____________________________
PRAYER IS LIKE GAS IN OUR TANKS...WITHOUT ACTION ON OUR PART THE CAR DOES NOT MOVE!
I would rather be a living bible for all to see than to go around constantly quoting it for actions speak louder than words!!
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/26/2008 7:23:01 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 728
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: jfwink
You're absolutely right rc. Hagee and Wright are apples and oranges, but the media needed someone to offset Reverend Wright and Hagee fit the bill.
I agree, it is apples and oranges.
One person, 20 years ago, just starting his political career, before he knew the Lord, joined a church within the community he would serve. As a result, he came to know Christ, got married there, and had kids, became part of that church family. However, the preacher over time "went bad," and eventually, reluctantly, he had to cut the guy loose.
The other person, supposedly a more mature person of superior experience and judgement, recently actively sought the political endorsement of a preacher who there was substantial history on that he could have researched. As many point out, he wasn't a member of the church and the preacher didn't marry him and his wife or baptize his kids, so there was no real affinity there. No. This guy simply wanted a political endorsement. This was not a friend that went bad. This was a guy who was already tainted in the eyes of many.
To me, that's sort of like someone being friends with someone for years who's treated you good and then all of a sudden they get in some kind of trouble, so now you're forced to dump them, albeit reluctantly...
vs.
Someone who goes out and actively seeks out the friendship of a known troublemaker just because he's cool with people you want to be cool with.
Or, let me put it another way. A way it could translate into real world politics.
Today, the United States has many friends in the world. But who's to say that one day they may do something that's against our principles and may have been wrong all along but either we didn't know it, or were reluctant to immediately take action due to our long, friendly relationship? I can cite several examples of countries in the Middle East, Africa, and Central America that we had to break ties with for this reason.
Contrast that to us going out and actively seeking to become allies with a country that has a long history of wrongdoings, for no other reason than political expediency.
- Julius
< Message edited by saved9201 -- 5/26/2008 7:29:48 AM >
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/26/2008 8:46:48 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5643
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Of course they have their own churches. It takes lots of effort to launder all that money. And it isn't worth the debate unless you want to start a separate thread.
What does that have to do with what you asked? Your question was answered and it seems you didn't like the answer. Oh well?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/26/2008 8:49:44 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5643
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Furthermore staying at a church that long makes it impossible for you to disavow the doctrine preached there
Provided sound doctrine is being proclaimed rather than poltical pablum staying at a church for 20 years should present no problem.
Regardless of what's being preached there, "sound doctrine" (soundness is in the eye of the beholder) or not, if you stay there for 20 years, it can be a problem if for political reasons you're forced to disavow the doctrine preached there. For example, preaching against homosexuality, women in the ministry, false religions (Islam) may be "sound doctrine" to some, but in the national forum these may be radical ideas that one day will label one an extremist. If you've only attended such a church a short time, you can always claim that you weren't aware of these ideas being preached, or that when you did find out, you immediately left. Once you've been there too long, it's too late.
- Julius
Sound doctrine = the core essentials of biblical Christianity. Not secondary issues and or cultural rules which are not in the same definition as what collie was talking about.
Too many confuse the two and actually believe there are no absolutes (core essentials) to what makes Christianity.. Christian. And not something out of the kingdom of the cults.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/26/2008 9:16:07 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 728
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Furthermore staying at a church that long makes it impossible for you to disavow the doctrine preached there
Provided sound doctrine is being proclaimed rather than poltical pablum staying at a church for 20 years should present no problem.
Regardless of what's being preached there, "sound doctrine" (soundness is in the eye of the beholder) or not, if you stay there for 20 years, it can be a problem if for political reasons you're forced to disavow the doctrine preached there. For example, preaching against homosexuality, women in the ministry, false religions (Islam) may be "sound doctrine" to some, but in the national forum these may be radical ideas that one day will label one an extremist. If you've only attended such a church a short time, you can always claim that you weren't aware of these ideas being preached, or that when you did find out, you immediately left. Once you've been there too long, it's too late.
- Julius
Sound doctrine = the core essentials of biblical Christianity. Not secondary issues and or cultural rules which are not in the same definition as what collie was talking about.
Too many confuse the two and actually believe there are no absolutes (core essentials) to what makes Christianity.. Christian. And not something out of the kingdom of the cults.
Applying your definition which takes into account "biblical Christianity," there are some aspects of what Hagee, Parsley, and yes even what Wright preach, that are consistent with biblical Christianity. However, preaching that God may actually frown on some of the things our government does, that it is His desire that Jews come to know the Lord, and that Islam is a false religion, while these views may be bibilcally accurate, they are politically inappropriate.
- Julius
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/26/2008 10:25:03 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5210
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Applying your definition which takes into account "biblical Christianity," there are some aspects of what Hagee, Parsley, and yes even what Wright preach, that are consistent with biblical Christianity. However, preaching that God may actually frown on some of the things our government does, that it is His desire that Jews come to know the Lord, and that Islam is a false religion, while these views may be bibilcally accurate, they are politically inappropriate.
How in the world do you get Biblically accurate out of Wright's claims that the US Govenment invented aids to kill people of color, and brought the drug culture to the folks of colore to destroy them?
I agree that abut the Jews need Jesus, and that Islam is a false religion, but much of Wrights stuff is way overboard and outright lies.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/26/2008 11:24:52 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 728
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Applying your definition which takes into account "biblical Christianity," there are some aspects of what Hagee, Parsley, and yes even what Wright preach, that are consistent with biblical Christianity. However, preaching that God may actually frown on some of the things our government does, that it is His desire that Jews come to know the Lord, and that Islam is a false religion, while these views may be bibilcally accurate, they are politically inappropriate.
How in the world do you get Biblically accurate out of Wright's claims that the US Govenment invented aids to kill people of color, and brought the drug culture to the folks of colore to destroy them?
I agree that abut the Jews need Jesus, and that Islam is a false religion, but much of Wrights stuff is way overboard and outright lies.
Thsnks
RC
Maybe you overlooked that little word SOME the first time. Unless you want to argue that you've heard every single sermon Wright has ever preached and nothing he says is biblically accurate.
-Julius
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/26/2008 11:40:03 AM
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colliefan
Posts: 2580
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
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quote:
It's all in the interpretation. I stand my ground that religion and politics do not mix!!
The Sumpreme Court has declared secular humanism is a religion. Why should we buy into a belief that has been written into politics for at least a generation. The worship of Mother Earth has caused a food crisis in the ethanol mandates. Should be disallow these laws on the mixing of religion and politics!
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RE: McCain rejects Hagee endorsement - 5/26/2008 1:43:25 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5210
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Maybe you overlooked that little word SOME the first time. Unless you want to argue that you've heard every single sermon Wright has ever preached and nothing he says is biblically accurate.
My dear saved 9201, may I kindly and humbly recommend that you try de-caf.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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