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Aliens (the space kind) - 5/22/2008 9:29:03 AM
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hellohellohi
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I was wondering what y'all (the Christian Internets) think about aliens. Some of you may have heard about the Catholic Church's recent delineation of their policy -- how Christian theology and the possibility of aliens interact.
For instance, they apparently expressed that it is an open question for them whether aliens would fall under Original Sin or not. ('scuse the pun)
Now, I'm not a Catholic, but I think we can all see what they mean.
And given some of the dangerous UFO cults that have developed (Heaven's Gate -- the black Nike shoe-icides!, the Raelians, and last but not least Scientology) it seems like an important issue WHETHER or not they exist!
The only Christian treatment of it I have ever read (I haven't seen the originals of the recent Vatican documents) is called UFOs and the Alien Agenda by Bob Larson, who sounds like a perhaps well-known Chrsitian radio-personality, though I'm not sure I know of him otherwise.
Love to hear what y'all think!
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/22/2008 12:03:07 PM
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Ps103
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Read CS Lewis' Space Trilogy. It has an interesting take on this subject.
Personally, I have no clue as to whether or not there is life on other planets. If there *is* other life, the God made it, just as He made us.
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/22/2008 1:04:54 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
For instance, they apparently expressed that it is an open question for them whether aliens would fall under Original Sin or not. ('scuse the pun)
That is one of the reasons I don't believe they exist. We have absolutely no reason to believe they do except for speculative science fiction. And to think, scientists think Christians believe in nonsense.
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Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/22/2008 1:20:07 PM
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mlsogan
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 hellohellohi, I just had a conversation with my husband last week about this subject. I am a Catholic, and have not hearad anything about the Vatican and it's statements. But, my question would be, we as Christians believe that "God always was, and always will be". Right? Well, who is to say that He hasn't created other beings! Forever, is a long time, and as a "Loving" God, was He always been alone, until we were created. I don't believe we will actually ever know until we see Him, face to face. But, it is a question to ponder.
Mary
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/22/2008 1:48:26 PM
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Lapidoth
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I think the general concensus on this is that the UFO's are identified.
They are called demonic manifestations.
Like Larry says, it's all nonsense.
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http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/22/2008 2:38:58 PM
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hellohellohi
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That is the position held by Bob Larson too (that aliens are demonic manifestations). I can see where Bob is coming from, and I am inclined to believe him in many ways. However, ... Well, I was going to say the "Extra-Terrestrial Hypothesis" explanation for UFOs (yknow, can't deny that sometimes things are seen that aren't readily identifiable to the observer) is plausible, but perhaps the question "Where did they come from?" is a strong one to weaken that plausibility.
Certainly, speculation is waste of time, and *I* haven't seen a UFO, but, yo, hit me up! I hope people continue to post on this possibly pointless subject.
Also, yeah, there's no reason to think of to say God COULDN'T do it. (Also, what does anyone think, perhaps LDS should be included under the "UFO/ET cults"? I am told that Mormons believe that God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit were persons on another planet, and we too will become gods for other worlds -- accurate?
Hmm...
One reason why speculation isn't pointless, or rather why it might behoove Christians to consider speculative things is that "the unknown" is one vast excuse for some people to invent nonsense and worship falsehood! As Christians, I think we claim a particular monopoly over the unknown, that is, we alone know how to treat it properly. (God, being LOVING, tells us everything we need to know! That is, perhaps stated another way!... And I know it is said God is God of mystery... Perhaps he is really and truly the only up-front-and-center type of God when it comes to what matters (among world religions). Perhaps Christianity should hold itself to be completely INESOTERIC! in that we know everything we need to know (what is obscure is obscured by our selves, our own intellects.) To me these ideas sound both challenging, perhaps offensive, but also trivially obvious result of believing in a loving God. What do y'all think?
If aliens do exist, that's okay too! Do any Christians (or any listening) believe in them? Just wondering if and why and how.
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/22/2008 2:50:37 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
I think the general concensus on this is that the UFO's are identified.
They are called demonic manifestations.
Like Larry says, it's all nonsense.
Personally, I don't think they're demonic manifestations either. We really don't have any reason to think that.
hellohellohi said:
quote:
Also, yeah, there's no reason to think of to say God COULDN'T do it. (Also, what does anyone think, perhaps LDS should be included under the "UFO/ET cults"? I am told that Mormons believe that God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit were persons on another planet, and we too will become gods for other worlds -- accurate?
No one has argued that God couldn't do it. It would be impossible to prove that He couldn't anyway. The question is "Did he?"
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/22/2008 4:11:54 PM
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LCannon
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Proverbs 22:30-"No wisdom, no understanding, no counsel can avail against the Lord. 31 The horse is made ready for the day of battle but the victory belongs to the Lord."
Romans 8:38-"For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
I assume 'all' means just that, 'all' in an absolute sense. Christ's blood/Victory is 'all' sufficient for all peoples, dimensions and self-aware(aware of one's fate/future)entities. True 'believers' will believe despite no(or even with sketchy)evidence rather then admit to the truth.("He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." -Jim Elliot-) Until we have the opportunity to share the Hope borne of God with another planet the mechanics of sharing that faith will remain a mystery but it's an intriguing possibility!
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"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/22/2008 5:07:11 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LCannon
I assume 'all' means just that, 'all' in an absolute sense. Christ's blood/Victory is 'all' sufficient for all peoples, dimensions and self-aware(aware of one's fate/future)entities. ...
That's another question entirely. I don't think all means all in the exhaustive sense.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/22/2008 5:59:44 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: LCannon
I assume 'all' means just that, 'all' in an absolute sense. Christ's blood/Victory is 'all' sufficient for all peoples, dimensions and self-aware(aware of one's fate/future)entities. ...
That's another question entirely. I don't think all means all in the exhaustive sense.
Even if so. . .
Jesus died here. On earth. Surrounded by humans.
The Bible was written here. On earth. In our languages. Through humans.
Did God create aliens billions of lightyears away who would know nothing of Christ? Who weren't included in any of this?
Additionally, I kind of assumed that Adam, a man, was created as better than the rest of all creation, and was given the job to name all the other living creatures. Did he name aliens? If so, how were they so much more technologically advanced that they were able to create spacecrafts before humans could even write, given we have no documentation of them?
Finally, why can't these stinken' UFOs just find a place to land, instead of hovering over cornfields all the time? They master intergalatic space travel, but they keep crashing on earth and can't land?
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love.ben
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/22/2008 6:09:49 PM
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GrahamCracker
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Ben,
Ooooohhhhhh. Good points!
I especially like:
quote:
Finally, why can't these stinken' UFOs just find a place to land, instead of hovering over cornfields all the time? They master intergalatic space travel, but they keep crashing on earth and can't land?
I remember a conversation I had with a neighbor. She said, "Are we so arrogant so as to believe that we are the only intelligent species in the universe?"
My reply was, "Hypothetically, if we are, would it be arrogant to believe that we are?"
She didn't get it. My point was that our arrogance has nothing to do with whether or not it's true.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/23/2008 1:17:33 AM
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Godhead
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I do not believe in the existence of aliens but that the universe was designed.
1: To show us the glory of God.
2: That we may begin to explore and populate once the earth was full.
That cannot happen as we have been weighed down by the knowledge of good and evil. There are many different types of knowledge, Adam was not a moron for he named all the animals. But with gaining the knowledge of good and evil we now have that at war in us, a war that Jesus ultimately has gained won the victory. Man was made immortal and told to fill the earth. Where do we go from there. The galaxy is infinite as far as we know and the perfect playground for an immortal being. Space and earth was created first, then the other stars. It was all made for us yet we fell into sin. The universe was created for us, not alien beings.
_____________________________
But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. (Psalm 49:15)
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/25/2008 5:34:14 AM
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Stormcrow
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If you've ever seen any of the documentaries about this on cable (History, Discovery, etc.) you would be impressed at the alleged level of technical sophistication these aliens and their ships would need to traverse the vast reaches of space.
In fact, given that such vehicles and their passengers appear routinely to break the known laws of physics (at least from our perspective) this - by definition - places them outside the realm of naturally observed and occurring phenomena.
We have a name for such phenomena. It's called "the supernatural" and - as Christians - we know of only two things that inhabit this realm: God and His angels and Satan and His demons.
You know the biggest problem UFOs present? They are a distraction. Like evolution, the occult, and global-warming fascism, they give some people an endless topic for discussion and speculation never giving them the chance to ponder the deeper questions regarding God and ultimate accountability.
They are a distraction and a diversion from the truth. And where do you think THAT comes from???
Just something to ponder.
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/25/2008 4:42:04 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
In fact, given that such vehicles and their passengers appear routinely to break the known laws of physics (at least from our perspective) this - by definition - places them outside the realm of naturally observed and occurring phenomena.
We have a name for such phenomena. It's called "the supernatural" and - as Christians - we know of only two things that inhabit this realm: God and His angels and Satan and His demons.
Frankly, I don't buy the stories that come out. The stories usually leave out information by which we could discount them. One story that I read about on the internet showed a "photograph" in which a couple (now dead) took a picture of a UFO. What the popular stores failed to note is that the same couple had been trying to convince people for years that UFOs existed. They were firm believers who "happened" to photograph one.
quote:
You know the biggest problem UFOs present? They are a distraction. Like evolution, the occult, and global-warming fascism, they give some people an endless topic for discussion and speculation never giving them the chance to ponder the deeper questions regarding God and ultimate accountability.
They are a distraction and a diversion from the truth. And where do you think THAT comes from???
I certainly agree with that. I tried once to have a home Bible study with some neighbors. Instead of wanted to get right with God and live for Him, they wanted to know what the Bible said about UFOs.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/26/2008 6:13:07 AM
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Doghouse
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I think the Vatican got burned pretty badly in that whole Galileo thing, so they are much more open and anticipatory about scientific discovery.
Another Mars probe landed yesterday (saw it live on a rare moment of actually watching the TV...). All it is going to take is one tiny single celled bacteria carcass for many to have to expand the scope of God to creation somewhere other than here. I think the Vatican might be anticipating that discovery and trying to discern a proper response to it.
Or, we can see what John Hagee has to say about it...
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When someone virtuous turns away from virtue to commit iniquity...it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die. But if he turns from the wickedness he has committed, he does what is right and just, he shall preserve his life" - Ez 18:25-28
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/26/2008 8:56:20 PM
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cherokeehippie
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Bob Larson isn't the only christian who has confronted the UFO/Alien thing! Google "Alien Resistance" Guy Malone in Roswell...and also "echoes of Enoch", also in Roswell...both christian ministry sites dealing with the subject.
I believe there are two kinds of ufos...balls of light...which is supernatural..demonic kind...and there is the secret military craft. Also, There are different kinds of abductions. There are even military abductions made to look like Alien but not.
There is a secret occultic element in our government, military and NASA...NASA for example is made up of leaders who were high ranking freemasons, OTO (a satanic occultic organization Aliester Crowley was a part of)...and Nazi german scientists that were brought here during Operation Paperclip.
Another thing...the government and NWO actually fund some of these ufo cults...such as the ones that committed suicided out in California.
I personally believe that our government made a 'treaty' with fallen angels back in the 50's...that we would let them abduct a certain number of our people,..in trade for technological knowledge...also...Genesis 6:4...plays a part in this...many early church fathers, and Jewish rabbis all believed that Genesis 6"4...the "sons of God" referred to fallen angels...not sons of Seth...as modern theologians would like to believe...many of hte abductions...women are impregnated, the mens sperm is takened, etc...tampering with dna, etc...
I have more to say, but I'll wait.
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/26/2008 9:06:29 PM
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cherokeehippie
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Oh yeah...also I think some of the ufo stuff, may be connected to witchcraft...alchemy workings being done in secret miltary labs, etc.
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/27/2008 6:25:56 AM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
There is a secret occultic element in our government, military and NASA...NASA for example is made up of leaders who were high ranking freemasons, OTO (a satanic occultic organization Aliester Crowley was a part of)...and Nazi german scientists that were brought here during Operation Paperclip.
Another thing...the government and NWO actually fund some of these ufo cults...such as the ones that committed suicided out in California.
I personally believe that our government made a 'treaty' with fallen angels back in the 50's...that we would let them abduct a certain number of our people,..in trade for technological knowledge...also...Genesis 6:4...plays a part in this...many early church fathers, and Jewish rabbis all believed that Genesis....
Now you're getting weird on us. Next thing--lets talk about black helicopters and men living on the sun.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/27/2008 9:44:41 AM
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stellaluna
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I think a good deal of "alien activity" can be chalked up to overactive imagination, the military and demonic activity.
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/27/2008 12:04:29 PM
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cherokeehippie
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Well, it's true...it's all a part of the coming of the antichrist...these secret organizations, and behind the scenes gov. have been doing all of this for years now...I mean...just think? Do you think that the antichrist will just "POP" appear on the scene out of no where? If there NO secret satanic occultic organizations in the gov. Also...how else can I explain my dad's murder back in 1974 and it being covered up, gag order and my family not allowed to know why he was murdered??? I understand now that it was a black ops ocultic element in our own gov. that did my dad in!! (My dad supposely was investigating missing stuff at White Sands Missile range..) My dad's dad, also had worked as security at White Sands Missile range during the 60's...He was head of security for the Nasa Apollo projects...when the astronauts did part of their trainging at White Sands...before going to the moon.
A few years after my dad's death...Me and my mom were living in Colorado when one day my mom came in, freaked out...claiming there were 2 dark cars with men in dark glasses and suits watching us. I didn't believe her at first...I went outside and sure enough, there were 2 dark cars with men in dark glasses...just like in the movies, etc...they saw that i saw them, and drove off!! This was about at the time when I first started visiting my dad's folks!...
Then I had a gov. man come and visit me one time in High School...which I though was weird!! He wasn't in suit, glasses, etc...but just there to 'see how I was doing in school' etc.
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/27/2008 12:09:36 PM
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Ps103
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This relates to Christian Doctrine how?
It may be time to move this thread....
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Aliens (the space kind) - 5/27/2008 12:22:10 PM
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cherokeehippie
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mmmmmm....I figured that there are secret masonic illuminati types that control the strings of certain christian organizations, forums, today etc...just like they have done for years...in Europe, middle ages, etc. Even with a 'christian' president in office right now...who is skull and bones, etc. No wonder Jesus told us to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves!!
< Message edited by cherokeehippie -- 5/27/2008 12:30:44 PM >
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