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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 2/29/2008 3:09:36 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hawkfan428
My bible dictionary defines tithing as a practice that was performed in the Old Testament times, and consisted of products from your land....
I'm happy for you. But, like it or not, the word means "tenth."
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 2/29/2008 3:12:56 PM
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hawkfan428
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Read my earlier posts. I'm not opposed to giving at all. Today's churches confuse "give" with "tithe".
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 2/29/2008 3:19:36 PM
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JimboFletch
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I have no problem with giving money (whatever amount) or tithing (10%) of one's income to God's ministries.
But wherever you fall in the matter, tithe means 10%. There's no point in changing the meaning of the word to bolster a position in either direction.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 2/29/2008 3:22:56 PM
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hawkfan428
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I have no problem with giving money (whatever amount) or tithing (10%) of one's income to God's ministries.
But wherever you fall in the matter, tithe means 10%. There's no point in changing the meaning of the word to bolster a position in either direction.
Where does Paul write that? Show me in the NT where Paul says tithing is mandatory.
I'm not changing anything. I'm just going by what's in the NT.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 2/29/2008 3:31:24 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hawkfan428
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I have no problem with giving money (whatever amount) or tithing (10%) of one's income to God's ministries.
But wherever you fall in the matter, tithe means 10%. There's no point in changing the meaning of the word to bolster a position in either direction.
Where does Paul write that? Show me in the NT where Paul says tithing is mandatory.
Why are you arguing about something I didn't say to you?
quote:
I'm not changing anything. I'm just going by what's in the NT.
I understood you to say that tithe means a tenth of produce, not money. If I understood correctly, you are wrong. If not, my bad and I apologize. Did I misunderstand you?
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 2/29/2008 3:35:38 PM
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hawkfan428
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: hawkfan428
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I have no problem with giving money (whatever amount) or tithing (10%) of one's income to God's ministries.
But wherever you fall in the matter, tithe means 10%. There's no point in changing the meaning of the word to bolster a position in either direction.
Where does Paul write that? Show me in the NT where Paul says tithing is mandatory.
Why are you arguing about something I didn't say to you?
quote:
I'm not changing anything. I'm just going by what's in the NT.
I understood you to say that tithe means a tenth of produce, not money. If I understood correctly, you are wrong. If not, my bad and I apologize. Did I misunderstand you?
That's correct. Check out Deuteronomy, Numbers and Leviticus. There's no mention of money at all.
I may have worded my sentence wrong, but if tithing money is crucial to the Christian life, why doesn't Paul mention it in any of his letters to the Gentile churches?
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 2/29/2008 3:43:37 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hawkfan428
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I understood you to say that tithe means a tenth of produce, not money. If I understood correctly, you are wrong. If not, my bad and I apologize. Did I misunderstand you?
That's correct. Check out Deuteronomy, Numbers and Leviticus. There's no mention of money at all.
I may have worded my sentence wrong, but if tithing money is crucial to the Christian life, why doesn't Paul mention it in any of his letters to the Gentile churches?
Why are you arguing the OT and Paul to me?
I don't care what your position is about giving and tithing. English is my first language and the word tithe means 10% or a tenth part. It does not specify what it's a tenth of - it can be a tenth of bowling balls. Like the word "Red" doesn't have to be used exclusively with "Fire Engines."
I merely posted because it bothers me when someone tries to change the meaning of a word just to bolster a position.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 2/29/2008 3:48:06 PM
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jbbaab44
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ok, this is going to go back and forth for a while until somebody says something. The word "tithe" means a tenth. Not a tenth of one's increse, not a tenth of spoils, not a tenth of animals. The word "tithe" means 10%.
The tithing law, is described as a tenth of the increase of the land and of animals. Hawkfan this is what you're arguing, but jimbofletch is arguing the definition of "tithe". Hopefully we can get on the right page now.
_____________________________
Church tithe & Offerings - New Testament Tithing
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 2/29/2008 3:52:37 PM
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hawkfan428
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbbaab44
ok, this is going to go back and forth for a while until somebody says something. The word "tithe" means a tenth. Not a tenth of one's increse, not a tenth of spoils, not a tenth of animals. The word "tithe" means 10%.
The tithing law, is described as a tenth of the increase of the land and of animals. Hawkfan this is what you're arguing, but jimbofletch is arguing the definition of "tithe". Hopefully we can get on the right page now.
Thank you. That's the point I was trying to make. That being said, Jimbo, thanks for the sparring! 
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 2/29/2008 3:56:56 PM
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hawkfan428
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I was hoping not to mention that "Red" also can go between "My Little" and "Wagon."
LOL
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 2/29/2008 5:12:21 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hawkfan428
Show me in the NT where Paul says tithing is mandatory.
Actually, nowhere in any of the epistles (or NT for that matter) are believers commanded to tithe.
All New Testament passages refer to the Old Testament and Old Covenant use and to the current Jewish practice of the time.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 2/29/2008 9:57:40 PM
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draexo
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Give what you want - God does not need our money!
_____________________________
The truth will set you free!
TRUTH
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/1/2008 3:42:11 PM
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DenimDiva
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In laymen's terms please....
What is the difference between a tithe and a gift?
Many have said that with my situation I could just give to charities until I find a home church. I responded that I already do that and don't consider it a tithe.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/1/2008 7:16:13 PM
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peace77
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quote:
What is the difference between a tithe and a gift?
There isn't any difference.
Those who are strict observers of tithing would say that tithing is giving 10% of your increase to God.
It is a gift to God.
If you give more or less than 10%, it is still a gift.
Peace,
Anne
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/3/2008 9:57:32 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peace77
quote:
What is the difference between a tithe and a gift?
There isn't any difference.
Those who are strict observers of tithing would say that tithing is giving 10% of your increase to God.
It is a gift to God.
If you give more or less than 10%, it is still a gift.
Peace,
Anne
I've tithed since about 1980. I never have considered it a gift and still do not.
For me, it is an act of worship and gratitude for the 100% He has entrusted to my stewardship.
It isn't possible to give God anything because it is all His. We are simply stewards of His bounty.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/3/2008 10:22:58 AM
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LBolt
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Amen!! I alway contended that because we are under a Melchizedekian (like the word) priesthood which is eternal and he received tithes then tithing is a testament of the resurrected Savior! That's between you and God.
I believe we should tithe. Is it going to send someone to hell? No
I heard one of the WoFers, Creflo Dollar say that not tithing will cause someone to go to hell! Boy was he "off" on that statement. My previous pastor used to think that you could "hear" from God if you don't tithe. He was "off" as well!! LOL
Truth be told, I Chron 29, tells us that all belongs to God. I know that we have different views concerning the validity of the OT on the believer today and what the "New Covenant" actually is. I know that because most of Christiandom echos a similar sentiment. If it wasn't a point of different, I would not have seen this "Actually, nowhere in any of the epistles (or NT for that matter) are believers commanded to tithe.
All New Testament passages refer to the Old Testament and Old Covenant use and to the current Jewish practice of the time."
We believe that the NT trumps and not complements the OT, which is where we err. Paul did not make "addendums" to the word of God or the scriptures. He quoted too much from it! In fact it was in II Tim 3:15-17, where he make a strong case for the "OT."
Let me quote it, "15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
Like I said we in Christiandom do greatly err!
< Message edited by LBolt -- 3/3/2008 12:05:38 PM >
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7,9
You mean there was grace in the Old Testament?!!!
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/3/2008 11:51:23 AM
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peace77
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quote:
It isn't possible to give God anything because it is all His. We are simply stewards of His bounty.
I agree.
I call it a gift because I do not give from a feeling of being forced or required. It is a gift given willingly.
Peace,
Anne
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/3/2008 12:33:55 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peace77
quote:
It isn't possible to give God anything because it is all His. We are simply stewards of His bounty.
I agree.
I call it a gift because I do not give from a feeling of being forced or required. It is a gift given willingly.
Peace,
Anne
By the same token, returning a consistent 10% portion in gratitude is not done with a feeling of obligation if one truly has a grateful heart. It's the difference in being a hired hand and the appreciative, loving son.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 8:21:58 AM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peace77
Those who are strict observers of tithing would say that tithing is giving 10% of your increase to God.
Peace,
Anne
Therein lies one of the main problems with tithing today. Income is NOT increase
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 8:38:10 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: peace77
Those who are strict observers of tithing would say that tithing is giving 10% of your increase to God.
Peace,
Anne
Therein lies one of the main problems with tithing today. Income is NOT increase
I still don't accept that contortion of logic. The check my employer gave me last week was an increase over my assets over the previous week. You seem fixated on an "exchange of services," but had I not sown my effort I would not have reaped a penny. Nobody in this world pays me for my potential. If I keep my skills "in the barn," I will starve.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 12:45:21 PM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: soxfan
Therein lies one of the main problems with tithing today. Income is NOT increase
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I still don't accept that contortion of logic. The check my employer gave me last week was an increase over my assets over the previous week. You seem fixated on an "exchange of services," but had I not sown my effort I would not have reaped a penny. Nobody in this world pays me for my potential. If I keep my skills "in the barn," I will starve.
You were hired for a position. When you accepted the position, you and your employer entered into agreement that says they will provide you with a wage (income) and in exchange you will fulfil the expectations of the position you were hired for.
Now, if you are in a position where your employer pays you to stay home and do nothing, then I guess that would qualify as increase.
Now, to me a bonus would qualify as increase. But since I do not believe tithing is required today, it is not an issue
Show me in Scripture where any tithe was on someone's income.
< Message edited by Soxfan -- 3/6/2008 12:52:12 PM >
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 12:57:47 PM
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JimboFletch
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If I didn't bring it with me into the world, it's increase.
You want more scipture? Okay.
Jacob said to God in Genesis, "...of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 1:06:48 PM
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DenimDiva
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
If I didn't bring it with me into the world, it's increase.
You want more scipture? Okay.
Jacob said to God in Genesis, "...of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."
Excellent point and great verse.
_____________________________
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 3/6/2008 1:49:16 PM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
If I didn't bring it with me into the world, it's increase.
You want more scipture? Okay.
Jacob said to God in Genesis, "...of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."
Excellent point and great verse.
To which I say:
2 Corinthians 9:6-7
6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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