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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/20/2008 12:05:03 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6018
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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Christina (& smiles?)
You might find this link helpful:
Is Divorce Ever Okay?
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"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/20/2008 12:10:45 PM
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Mrs.X
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I totally didn't take that too harsh Kim. I just don't agree, I'm sorry. But, to answer you question about being murdered. No way....I would never advise someone to stay in the same home with an abuser even though I have done/do it myself. Divorce is not the only option to keep one's self safe. Plus separation still leaves the door open for repentance. Ya never know, her husband might see the error of his ways down the road and seek counselling. Especially if the church disciplines him. I never thought my husband would change, but he did. He's certainly not perfect, but he's come a long way, long enough for me to feel safe with him and stay with him. If I would have divorced him (like I wanted to), I certainly would have never turned back, so I'm glad we just split for a while.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/20/2008 12:13:20 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6018
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SteelMagnolia
Divorce is not the only option to keep one's self safe.
But it is sometimes the only option to keep the children safe, and to get financial support.
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/20/2008 2:06:53 PM
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smiles4all
Posts: 11
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quote:
Would your church by any chance be Presbyterian? (if it's ok to ask)
No, it is Baptist.
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/20/2008 7:54:15 PM
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futuremartyr
Posts: 138
Joined: 4/4/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: smiles4all
I had originally posted this on the divorce thread and was invited to post it here.
In the last few days I have become more confused and troubled than I have ever been. I became a Christian in 1996 and two years later married another Christian. This was my second marriage and his first at age 38, I had a 6 year old son. After 9 years of praying for change I couldn't take it anymore. Two years ago I filed for divorce - my husband is a verbal and emotional abuser. A few times he came close to hurting me and he would get very violent and destroy things in the house. I cannot even explain the pain and suffering he caused to me and my son. All my phone calls and mail had to be screened by him first and he had to approve of the people I hung out with. In the midst of it all I had another son. I was praying that he would change but things got worse. As of this past September we are separated and he finally left the house. Since then there has been peace in my house. After all these years I finally feel safe coming home and sleeping in my bed. My oldest son is happier but still has a lot of emotional problems. My little one is dealing with his father not being around. I know God does not like divorce and it is not like I woke up one day and just decided to get divorced. I will admit I am not perfect and I am sure I didn't help the situation any. Maybe I could have pushed harder for him to get help. I am also undergoing church discipline. The next step is outing from my church - the only place where I have friends. I would no longer be able to get together with any of them. I know the Pastor's are trying to protect the flock by removing a sinner from their presence. They want to see us reconciled but my husband will not get help for his problem and only wants to get back together. I am trying to protect myself and my family and don't understand why I have to go through this process. I am trying to escape an abuser and I am being punsihed for it. I know in 1 Corinthians where Paul talks about a wife being separated and remaning single. That is fine with me as I would never trust a guy again. The past few days have been pretty rough as I just received notice about the eventual 'outing'. I have been hurting for a long time and this make it worse. I keep asking God why this has to happen. I do not want to walk away from God. I do not want to be exiled from my church and friends who I need right now. All I want is to feel safe.
I apologize if I have offened anyone and for the long post. The bible indicates acceptable divorce for adulterers only. But what happens with victims of abuse? I have read through the bible to find anything on abuse but didn't. I tried to get divorced on adultery but I guess my husband's lustful comments about beautiful women and hanging out with the 'hot chick' (his words) down the street isn't really adultery. I am really confused - I was a baby Christian when we were married and instead of helping me grow in my walk with the Lord he destoyed me and my son.
The provision for abused spouses is law enforcement, and the church. If you had not pursued divorce the elders would be coming after him instead of you, I would hope. Divorce for abuse is definitely not in the bible because it is not an option. Unless you are remarried it is not too late to restore. The purpose of church discipline is restoration when a believer is involved. It will either push a believer to repent or an unbeliever to leave. I am married to a man who used to emotionally abuse me, I can tell you I was not innocent in the matter. If you want to repent, you should seek counseling from your church and restore with your husband. Did someone counsel you to divorce him or did you just divorce him because you weren't happy? Being a baby Christian when you got married doesn't have anything to do with any of this. any women are married to husband who do not help them in their walk with the lord, it does not mean they can divorce their husband's either. One thing I know for sure, we deserve eternal hell, and any amount of affliction here on earth is better than we deserve.
Psalm 119:71
It is good for me that I was afflicted,that I might learn your statutes
Luke 6:28
bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.
_____________________________
http://teachableheartsathome.blogspot.com/
http://store.familylife.com/conferences/find_conference.asp
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/20/2008 8:15:46 PM
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futuremartyr
Posts: 138
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quote:
ORIGINAL: smiles4all
No, my husband is still there and I far as I know he isn't getting ousted because he doesn't want the divorce.
why aren't the elders of your church confronting your husband on his lusting?
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http://teachableheartsathome.blogspot.com/
http://store.familylife.com/conferences/find_conference.asp
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/20/2008 8:24:57 PM
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futuremartyr
Posts: 138
Joined: 4/4/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: clag4christ
Christina,
This woman is *not* involved in unrepentant sin. Her husband is abusing her and the church *is* going after her. They are and have not supported her in her wish to fix her marriage and get her husband help for his anger/sin issues. Instead, because she's trying to save herself and her sons from further harm they are trying to shun her. It is absulutely atrocious that they would be doing this. Yes...divorce is a sin...however this woman, imo, is not sinning in seeking a divorce from her husband. He has not followed *his* commands to love and honor her as Christ does the church, and therefore has broken his promises and his oaths to her, from their wedding day...
Her church is wrong...period.
(For the record I do not disagree with proper church discipline.)
Her church is wrong but not for the reason you think. God hates divorce!! God hates sin!! The church should be confronting the husband and she should not be divorcing him.
_____________________________
http://teachableheartsathome.blogspot.com/
http://store.familylife.com/conferences/find_conference.asp
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/20/2008 8:30:12 PM
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futuremartyr
Posts: 138
Joined: 4/4/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: smiles4all
quote:
Smiles4uall, I really am sorry for what you are going through. Is there a way to un-do the filings you've done already and do a legal separation instead? Do you want back into your church?
I do have a legal separation and I am still in the church right. The divorce didn't go through because I ran out of money and my husband finally agreed to the separation. I still have to talk to the leaders about this. As long as I don't file for divorce and just stay separated I feel that there should be no further discipline taken. We shall see what happens.
The only separation spoken of in the Bible is divorce as we know it. 1 Cor 7. Separation is not God made, but man made, as is divorce. http://cafebiblia.com/?p=98
_____________________________
http://teachableheartsathome.blogspot.com/
http://store.familylife.com/conferences/find_conference.asp
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/20/2008 8:31:20 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 8760
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
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so, futuremartyr, what should a woman do if her husband is physically abusing her and/or her kids?
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L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/20/2008 8:55:58 PM
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MyCatSmokey2006
Posts: 3138
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Christina and futuremartyr,
What would you recommend a wife to do if her husband is sexually abusing her children? Would that be considered "adultery", and thus a basis for divorce according to God's Word. Honestly, I think that some of you should put yourself in other people's shoes before passing judgment on them.
Smiles4Uall is NOT a sinner just because she needs to divorce an abusive husband. As a mother, she is responsible for the safety of her children. If divorcing him is the only way to protect them, then that's what she should do.
As for church discipline, I agree with it most of the time, but I also believe that people shouldn't be shunned just because they get divorced.
_____________________________
Melissa
MEOWY CHRISTMAS!
My BLOG!
MY CAT POST!
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/20/2008 11:32:39 PM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2957
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MyCatSmokey2006
Christina and futuremartyr,
What would you recommend a wife to do if her husband is sexually abusing her children? Would that be considered "adultery", and thus a basis for divorce according to God's Word.
Yep. That link Manda posted was very informative. While I didn't agree with everything it said, I did learn that the Greek word "pornea" (used it Matt. 5:32) mean all sexual immorality, not just adultery. Although the particular scenario you mentioned, I'd still consider it adultery also.
quote:
Honestly, I think that some of you should put yourself in other people's shoes before passing judgment on them.
I don't know if you read my post, but I am in her shoes. My husband is an emotional abuser and even used to physically abuse me. He has come a long way, and is not as bad as he used ot be, but I still bear through it everyday as it gets better.
quote:
As a mother, she is responsible for the safety of her children. If divorcing him is the only way to protect them, then that's what she should do.
In most states, legal separation gives you the same "benefits" of divorce. Child support and custody, who gets the house, car, etc. Legal separation would offer her and her kiddo the same protection as divorce, i.e. not living under the same roof.
I don't know why people think divorce is the only way. Legal separation does the exact same thing without the piece of paper saying you are divorced.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/21/2008 7:45:22 AM
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smiles4all
Posts: 11
Joined: 5/17/2008
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quote:
In most states, legal separation gives you the same "benefits" of divorce. Child support and custody, who gets the house, car, etc. Legal separation would offer her and her kiddo the same protection as divorce, i.e. not living under the same roof.
Yes, it does. I have child support, alimony, maintenance, etc. Without the legal separation I would not have been able to get him out of the house. Unfortunately my husband thinks that since we are still married that he has access to the house (locks have been changed, he wasn't happy) and to what I am doing at any given point in the day. I still get interrogated, yelled at when I don't tell him what he wants to know and so forth. I know even a divorce won't change that. Since I am separated if I want a divorce I would have to refile for it after a year. I have not done that and probably won't. I know God can change people but in my husbands own words " I am this way and I am not going to change."
I also want to clarify, it is only verbal abuse and control. The only physical abuse has been toward material things but he has come close to going after me a few times. And as far as I know, nothing has been done as far as discipline against my husband at the church.
Honestly, whether it is a divorce or a separation, we are never going to be 100% protected.
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/21/2008 11:07:03 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6966
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: smiles4all
I know God can change people but in my husbands own words " I am this way and I am not going to change."
I also want to clarify, it is only verbal abuse and control. The only physical abuse has been toward material things but he has come close to going after me a few times. And as far as I know, nothing has been done as far as discipline against my husband at the church.
Honestly, whether it is a divorce or a separation, we are never going to be 100% protected.
That sounds like the marriage that I just left. We're going through much of the same thing. That's why I have just been reading and offering you prayers. I'll keep praying.
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/21/2008 11:12:00 AM
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mabel
Posts: 179
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
I know God can change people but in my husbands own words " I am this way and I am not going to change."
Abusers don't change because they don't want to. They like things the way they are. Yes, God can change them if they completely surrender to Him. The percentage of abusers that actually change is very low, and those that do, it is hard and not without the right help. Marriage counseling does not help abusers and it usually makes it worse for the victim. Also, abusers are very good at convincing others that they are repentent. They often like to try become the "victim". They are masters of manipulation and undermining.
quote:
I also want to clarify, it is only verbal abuse and control. Abuse is abuse. It is damaging to everyone involved. You need to be safe....whatever it takes. Please, please take care of yourself smiles4all.
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/21/2008 11:50:40 AM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2957
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
Status: offline
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Mabel, while I agree with most of what you're saying, I wouldn't say it's true for ALL abusers. My husband has changed by me praying for him and him trying to stop by his own will. He's not a Christian. It's probably slower than if he got counselling or something, but it's fast enough for me to be patient and wait for him to be the man he ought to be.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/21/2008 12:12:36 PM
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mabel
Posts: 179
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SteelMagnolia
Mabel, while I agree with most of what you're saying, I wouldn't say it's true for ALL abusers. My husband has changed by me praying for him and him trying to stop by his own will. He's not a Christian. It's probably slower than if he got counselling or something, but it's fast enough for me to be patient and wait for him to be the man he ought to be.
I agree, it isn't ALL abusers. I appreciate what you've shared and it's awesome that you see a change in your husband.
I'm just saying that FEW do change. It is very hard since abuse is about power and control and belief systems and those are very hard things to let go of and to develop new patterns.
A quote from a friend that has helped me..... "an abuser shouldn't tell you he's changed, he should be asking "have I changed?".
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 5/21/2008 3:06:36 PM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2885
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: We just moved to the big state of Texas!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: smiles4all
quote:
In most states, legal separation gives you the same "benefits" of divorce. Child support and custody, who gets the house, car, etc. Legal separation would offer her and her kiddo the same protection as divorce, i.e. not living under the same roof.
Yes, it does. I have child support, alimony, maintenance, etc. Without the legal separation I would not have been able to get him out of the house. Unfortunately my husband thinks that since we are still married that he has access to the house (locks have been changed, he wasn't happy) and to what I am doing at any given point in the day. I still get interrogated, yelled at when I don't tell him what he wants to know and so forth. I know even a divorce won't change that. Since I am separated if I want a divorce I would have to refile for it after a year. I have not done that and probably won't. I know God can change people but in my husbands own words " I am this way and I am not going to change."
I also want to clarify, it is only verbal abuse and control. The only physical abuse has been toward material things but he has come close to going after me a few times. And as far as I know, nothing has been done as far as discipline against my husband at the church.
Honestly, whether it is a divorce or a separation, we are never going to be 100% protected.
Except the main reason for separation (even legal separation) should be with the intent of one day reconciling...not an ad hoc way of 'being divorced' without actually having to file the papers. If reconciliation is desired by both parties then they both have to take steps toward healing and working on themselves (especially the abuser) so as not to fall into the same traps and pitfalls and abuse that was previously going on.
You husband feels he has a right to know about your whereabouts and enjoy 'marital priveleges' because you're *still married* legally. If you're trying to appease your church by just filing for legal separation so as not to 'actually divorce' but are reaping the benefits that a divorce would afford you (monetarily, etc.), then your church is just like the pharasees with their whitewashed tombs and rotting corpses underneath...
It's pitiful what they're doing to you and the way they're twisting scripture...
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 6/17/2008 8:07:32 PM
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endless_night
Posts: 82
Joined: 6/17/2008
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Find another church (such a weird concept) because there is only one Church.
Before you do something so hast as finding a biblical congregation, maybe God put you in this situation so those who are in the congregation can understand what has be going on with you. If you tell them you are getting a divorce, but they do not know that your husband has been abusive (it does not change the fact that divorce is wrong) or that he has committed lust in his heart (the fact that your husband lust after women makes it adultery and therefore you can get a divorce), you must know that is why they are considering you to be a sinner . Before anything drastic happen, first pray and then go to the people in your congregation and tell them what has been going on because they might have a skewed perception of the situation.
And if they know all of this and still try and dis fellowship with you, then sweetie, you need to find a biblical congregation.
< Message edited by endless_night -- 6/17/2008 8:15:40 PM >
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 6/18/2008 11:20:31 AM
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daughter_of_faith
Posts: 1265
Joined: 1/10/2008
From: Great Plains, Kansas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: endless_night
Find another church (such a weird concept) because there is only one Church.
Before you do something so hast as finding a biblical congregation, maybe God put you in this situation so those who are in the congregation can understand what has be going on with you. If you tell them you are getting a divorce, but they do not know that your husband has been abusive (it does not change the fact that divorce is wrong) or that he has committed lust in his heart (the fact that your husband lust after women makes it adultery and therefore you can get a divorce), you must know that is why they are considering you to be a sinner . Before anything drastic happen, first pray and then go to the people in your congregation and tell them what has been going on because they might have a skewed perception of the situation.
And if they know all of this and still try and dis fellowship with you, then sweetie, you need to find a biblical congregation.
Having been in this situation (abusive, lustful husband)---I have some issues with the above-mentioned "divorce is wrong in cases of abuse". In my situation, it was more the abuse that made me seek the separation/divorce than the marital infidelity. Yes, both hurt...both were WRONG...but the marital infidelity didn't threaten imminent physical harm or death to both me or my child....the abuse did.
I tried getting help for my former spouse. He refused help from a doctor and two pastors. Didn't think he'd done anything wrong. Yeah, that's why the judge issued the PFA and then told me to keep my doors locked, etc. but even with the doors locked it didn't necessarily stop a determined man with a gun or a knife.
I left my ex for the safety of my son and I. After the fact, I realized that I could have made HIM leave our residence. Regardless, I was now in a safe place...somewhere he didn't have a key. He wasn't going to change (refused to...still refuses to...even 4.5/5 years later).
I'm happily remarried now. Thanks be to God!
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 6/18/2008 2:13:34 PM
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endless_night
Posts: 82
Joined: 6/17/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: daughter_of_faith
Having been in this situation (abusive, lustful husband)---I have some issues with the above-mentioned "divorce is wrong in cases of abuse". In my situation, it was more the abuse that made me seek the separation/divorce than the marital infidelity. Yes, both hurt...both were WRONG...but the marital infidelity didn't threaten imminent physical harm or death to both me or my child....the abuse did.
I tried getting help for my former spouse. He refused help from a doctor and two pastors. Didn't think he'd done anything wrong. Yeah, that's why the judge issued the PFA and then told me to keep my doors locked, etc. but even with the doors locked it didn't necessarily stop a determined man with a gun or a knife.
I left my ex for the safety of my son and I. After the fact, I realized that I could have made HIM leave our residence. Regardless, I was now in a safe place...somewhere he didn't have a key. He wasn't going to change (refused to...still refuses to...even 4.5/5 years later).
I'm happily remarried now. Thanks be to God![/color]
I understand that you might have a problem with it. But I simply mean, a divorce is wrong in God's eyes if it is not because of sexual immorality. God hates divorces, we are told in Malachi 2:16 and I am extremely sorry for the position that your ex-husband had put you in but that does not stop the fact that divorce is a sin.
Oh and I did not say divorce is wrong in case of an abuse, and if I implied it I'm sorry. I mean divorce is wrong if it is not because of adultery.
I think God makes this extremely pivotal that we know who we are going to marry (I do not mean to imply that you did not know your ex-husband, I'm just speaking to everyone). And if it takes 6 years to be sure, then by all means take that 6 years to get to know the person.
_____________________________
The Fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments. His praises endures forever.
Psalms 111:10
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 6/19/2008 4:42:00 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 501
Joined: 7/14/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
ORIGINAL: smiles4all
No, my husband is still there and I far as I know he isn't getting ousted because he doesn't want the divorce.
There is something VERY wrong with this picture. Find another church. Please.
I agree. In abusing you, your husband has violated the marriage vows to "love, honor, and cherish" you. In ousting you, your church is breaking faith with you and with Christ. In failing to censure your husband for his behavior, your church is showing its ignorance of Christ's teachings and the rules established by the Apostles. If your friends shun you, then they weren't really your friends to start with.
I left an abusive husband,and went on my own with 4 children. Best decision I ever made. I lucked out and met the man of my dreams, but even if I was still single I'd still be better off than I was. Step out and trust God, who is better than any man ever will be.
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RE: Divorcing an Abuser - 6/19/2008 11:47:38 PM
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daughter_of_faith
Posts: 1265
Joined: 1/10/2008
From: Great Plains, Kansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
ORIGINAL: smiles4all
No, my husband is still there and I far as I know he isn't getting ousted because he doesn't want the divorce.
There is something VERY wrong with this picture. Find another church. Please.
I agree. In abusing you, your husband has violated the marriage vows to "love, honor, and cherish" you. In ousting you, your church is breaking faith with you and with Christ. In failing to censure your husband for his behavior, your church is showing its ignorance of Christ's teachings and the rules established by the Apostles. If your friends shun you, then they weren't really your friends to start with.
I left an abusive husband,and went on my own with 4 children. Best decision I ever made. I lucked out and met the man of my dreams, but even if I was still single I'd still be better off than I was. Step out and trust God, who is better than any man ever will be.
^Ditto^
That's pretty much my story...except I only have one child 
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