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Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 6:32:13 AM
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Ephesians4_32
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1 Timothy 2
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Some people say that God won't send them to hell because they aren't bad people. These people believe that at the end of their lives, there will be more good on the scale than bad, and therefore they will be saved. I have at least one relative who believes this. Is God trying to save this person?
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 8:28:51 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
Some people say that God won't send them to hell because they aren't bad people. These people believe that at the end of their lives, there will be more good on the scale than bad, and therefore they will be saved. I have at least one relative who believes this. Is God trying to save this person?
Yes, that is a common belief, but those who believe that way are in for a rude awakening on Judgment Day.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 9:12:01 AM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
Is God trying to save this person?
Yes. God is trying to save all sinners, that would include this person.
Peace
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 9:20:50 AM
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justajerk
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I sure hope He succeeds... *biting nails nervously*
Can we really place all our hope and trust in a God who 'tries' to save all sinners? I thought He was successful in all that He purposes?
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 9:40:44 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 548
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: justajerk
I sure hope He succeeds... *biting nails nervously*
Can we really place all our hope and trust in a God who 'tries' to save all sinners? I thought He was successful in all that He purposes?
What He purposes is that all should be saved by freely accepting His offer of salvation. He chooses all, but unfortunately, not all choose Him. That is a God that I can most definitely place all my hope and trust and faith in.
There is a well used thread for the free will vs predestination debaters.
Peace
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 9:58:00 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: justajerk
I sure hope He succeeds... *biting nails nervously*
Can we really place all our hope and trust in a God who 'tries' to save all sinners? I thought He was successful in all that He purposes?
What He purposes is that all should be saved by freely accepting His offer of salvation. He chooses all, but unfortunately, not all choose Him. That is a God that I can most definitely place all my hope and trust and faith in.
There is a well used thread for the free will vs predestination debaters.
Peace
What about Matthew 22:14?
For many are called, but few are chosen.
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 10:13:07 AM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: justajerk
I sure hope He succeeds... *biting nails nervously*
Can we really place all our hope and trust in a God who 'tries' to save all sinners? I thought He was successful in all that He purposes?
What He purposes is that all should be saved by freely accepting His offer of salvation. He chooses all, but unfortunately, not all choose Him. That is a God that I can most definitely place all my hope and trust and faith in.
There is a well used thread for the free will vs predestination debaters.
Peace
What about Matthew 22:14?
For many are called, but few are chosen.
quote:
Matthew 22:14
What about 2 Corinthians 5:15?
"And He died for all..."
< Message edited by URForgiven -- 5/16/2008 10:19:21 AM >
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 10:27:38 AM
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SonInMe1
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The bible says both that we choose and are chosen. How that works is mostly speculation.
However, God can save anyone He so chooses to do and if you are on His list you don't have a choice. God is NOT subserviant to us in any form. Yes, we were given the ability to sin, free will but that is ALL free will is.
All will NOT be saved. We all agree on that...I think. God is sovereign, no question, He IS God. So who makes the salvation choice?
Gee, I really really really really really hope its not us. That would definitly scare me to death.
Everyone says there is a watered down doctrine being taught. Let me tell you what it really is....
People will be sent to hell by God and people don't want to hear that.
"Its my choice to accept God's gift of salvation. "
Probably the scariest doctrine out there. If it truly was up to us and us alone to save ourselves through a free will act...then we are all doomed to hell.
OR...
some people have extremely inflated perceptions of themselves.
Yes, God will send people to hell. The bible says, the majority of people.
After saying all that, I will throw ya the big qualifier....there is a role for us. We can deny God. Its part of our free will ability. God is calling us, those that will be saved. Without this, without God calling us and molding us toward Him, there is no chance for us to....here is the qualifier..."choose" God.
In the end we do..."choose"....but to whom goes all the glory? The One who calls us. The one who places things in our paths that direct us to Him. The One who came here so we could be saved. The One who empowers us to make that "choice".
So how much of a choice is it? About as much as a molecule is to the size of the entire universe. Or maybe a defintion of "reverse infinity". Really minute.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 11:11:41 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: justajerk
I sure hope He succeeds... *biting nails nervously*
Can we really place all our hope and trust in a God who 'tries' to save all sinners? I thought He was successful in all that He purposes?
What He purposes is that all should be saved by freely accepting His offer of salvation. He chooses all, but unfortunately, not all choose Him. That is a God that I can most definitely place all my hope and trust and faith in.
There is a well used thread for the free will vs predestination debaters.
Peace
What about Matthew 22:14?
For many are called, but few are chosen.
quote:
Matthew 22:14
What about 2 Corinthians 5:15?
"And He died for all..."
2 Corinthians 5:15 has nothing to do with your assertion. You said He chooses all, scripture says differently. I side with scripture.
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 11:16:19 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2276
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
What He purposes is that all should be saved by freely accepting His offer of salvation. He chooses all, but unfortunately, not all choose Him. That is a God that I can most definitely place all my hope and trust and faith in.
There is a well used thread for the free will vs predestination debaters.
Peace
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
...After saying all that, I will throw ya the big qualifier....there is a role for us. We can deny God. Its part of our free will ability. God is calling us, those that will be saved. Without this, without God calling us and molding us toward Him, there is no chance for us to....here is the qualifier..."choose" God.
The person I mentioned in the OP is my mother. She doesn't know that the Bible is the word of God. How can God or I convince her that it is? How is God trying to save her? For me, He brought conviction. My mother doesn't feel convicted.
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 11:57:45 AM
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justajerk
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quote:
The person I mentioned in the OP is my mother. She doesn't know that the Bible is the word of God. How can God or I convince her that it is? How is God trying to save her? For me, He brought conviction. My mother doesn't feel convicted. Eph4_32, I am in a similar situation with my family (my mother is nearing the end of her life, and I have 6 brothers and sisters who are lost as well). I went through John chapter 3 with my Dad just weeks before he died, and I have no idea of the impact on his heart (he had alzheimers). Preach the word; It will not return void, and is the power unto salvation. If God in His wisdom and for His purposes does not call one or all, I will continue to praise him as I know he is just and wise and works all things (even the salvation/condemnation of family) for good. Continue to pray and plead for your mother, as I will pray for you and her as well; that God would use you mightily in her life.
Hang in there and preach the gospel.
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 12:02:38 PM
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URForgiven
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Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
People will be sent to hell by God and people don't want to hear that.
God doesn't need to send anyone to hell, they are headed there already. The choice that we all must make is will we accept life [in the person of Jesus Christ] or will we continue in the [dead] state in which we already are.
Peace
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 12:18:05 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 4614
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
God doesn't need to send anyone to hell, they are headed there already. The choice that we all must make is will we accept life [in the person of Jesus Christ] or will we continue in the [dead] state in which we already are.
I agree and God does also as indicated by the writings of John;
JOHN 3;18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 1:02:48 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
2 Corinthians 5:15 has nothing to do with your assertion. You said He chooses all, scripture says differently. I side with scripture.
I do not wish to argue with you Jimbo, but it is with Scripture that you disagree. Christ died for all and He died "once and for all". If He died for all, then obviously all have the opportunity to accept His death, burial, and resurrection.
"This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.." 1 Timothy 2:3-5
Peace
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 1:08:21 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 548
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
God doesn't need to send anyone to hell, they are headed there already. The choice that we all must make is will we accept life [in the person of Jesus Christ] or will we continue in the [dead] state in which we already are.
I agree and God does also as indicated by the writings of John;
JOHN 3;18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
Thanks
RC
Oh my, RC is agreeing with me...I may have to reconsider my position. LOL. Just kiddin', Love ya RC. 
Peace
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 1:14:11 PM
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Itlyn1kc
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I think from reading and learning and from what others have said, It says in the bible that if you confess it with your mouth and believe it in your heart, then you are saved and that is the way to heaven, correct???.
Just because someone is a good person, does not mean they go to heaven. That has nothing to do with it, it is not your works, it is your faith..I do not believe that just because someone is good they will go to heaven, there are plenty of good people out there but God gives us a choice to accept him or not, if we do not accept him, we do not go to heaven. He has an inheritance in us and he wants a return on his investment, he wants us to come to him and accept him into our hearts...If he keeps trying to leave that door open and we shut it on him and say no thanks, well then that is not goign to have a good outcome.
Just a thought..I am still learning alot and taking it all in, but my pastor talked about this at our spiritual warfare class.....
AMEN
kc
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 2:27:52 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 548
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
The person I mentioned in the OP is my mother. She doesn't know that the Bible is the word of God. How can God or I convince her that it is? How is God trying to save her? For me, He brought conviction. My mother doesn't feel convicted.
It is the Holy Spirits job to do the convincing, it is our job to present the Truth. Show her the Truth. Show her The Truth of God's Word, by your life.
Let your life be so infused with the life of Christ in you, that it will baffle and amaze. Let Gods love so permeate all that you are, that it has no choice but to overflow to all you come in contact with. Let the only explanation for you...be Jesus Christ!
The same sun that softens wax, hardens clay. To the humble, the gospel of Jesus will soften the heart. But to the proud, it will harden the heart. We cannot make someone believe. We can only be who we are as Children of God. And that is all that God wants from us.
Make no doubt about it, you are going through a difficult situation. Difficult for you, but not too difficult for God. This is meant to help and I pray it is accepted as such.
Peace
< Message edited by URForgiven -- 5/16/2008 2:48:13 PM >
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 2:55:32 PM
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Conquered
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quote:
I do not wish to argue with you Jimbo, but it is with Scripture that you disagree. Christ died for all and He died "once and for all". If He died for all, then obviously all have the opportunity to accept His death, burial, and resurrection.
"This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.." 1 Timothy 2:3-5
How can he ultimately want all men to be saved when he sends some a powerful delusion not to believe?
"...the one whose coming springs from the power of Satan in every mighty deed and in signs and wonders that lie, and in every wicked deceit for those who are perishing because they have not accepted the love of truth so that they may be saved. Therefore, God is sending them a deceiving power so that they may believe the lie, that all who have not believed the truth but have approved wrongdoing may be condemned." -2 Thess. 2:9-12 (emphasis mine)
And if God wants all to be saved, and yet all are not saved, how is it that God is denied what he wants? If he can do anything why is it he does not ultimately get what he wants? And if he does not ultimately get what he wants, how is he all powerful?
< Message edited by Conquered -- 5/16/2008 3:03:53 PM >
_____________________________
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. - John 15:16
www.desiringgod.org
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 3:36:27 PM
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URForgiven
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Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Conquered
quote:
I do not wish to argue with you Jimbo, but it is with Scripture that you disagree. Christ died for all and He died "once and for all". If He died for all, then obviously all have the opportunity to accept His death, burial, and resurrection.
"This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.." 1 Timothy 2:3-5
How can he ultimately want all men to be saved when he sends some a powerful delusion not to believe?
"...the one whose coming springs from the power of Satan in every mighty deed and in signs and wonders that lie, and in every wicked deceit for those who are perishing because they have not accepted the love of truth so that they may be saved. Therefore, God is sending them a deceiving power so that they may believe the lie, that all who have not believed the truth but have approved wrongdoing may be condemned."-2 Thess. 2:9-12 (emphasis mine)
And if God wants all to be saved, and yet all are not saved, how is it that God is denied what he wants? If he can do anything why is it he does not ultimately get what he wants? And if he does not ultimately get what he wants, how is he all powerful?
Your answer is in the very verse you quote.
Peace
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 4:17:32 PM
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Conquered
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quote:
Your answer is in the very verse you quote.
That's a dodge to the questions and the one your "answer" begs, not a real answer.
_____________________________
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. - John 15:16
www.desiringgod.org
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 4:23:48 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2276
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: justajerk
quote:
The person I mentioned in the OP is my mother. She doesn't know that the Bible is the word of God. How can God or I convince her that it is? How is God trying to save her? For me, He brought conviction. My mother doesn't feel convicted. Eph4_32, I am in a similar situation with my family (my mother is nearing the end of her life, and I have 6 brothers and sisters who are lost as well). I went through John chapter 3 with my Dad just weeks before he died, and I have no idea of the impact on his heart (he had alzheimers). Preach the word; It will not return void, and is the power unto salvation. If God in His wisdom and for His purposes does not call one or all, I will continue to praise him as I know he is just and wise and works all things (even the salvation/condemnation of family) for good. Continue to pray and plead for your mother, as I will pray for you and her as well; that God would use you mightily in her life.
Hang in there and preach the gospel.
I will likewise pray for your family. I have four living siblings. They are not believers. My late father was an agnostic/atheist. My mother was born in 1924. My mother will get snotty if I bring up the gospel again. She refers to Christians as religious nuts, or church people if she is afraid of being quoted, and opposes what she calls 24-7 Christianity. She believes I'm less intelligent than my siblings.
I'm not angry at God, but I'm truly sorry that my family thinks the Bible is not inspired by God.
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 4:29:32 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2276
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
The person I mentioned in the OP is my mother. She doesn't know that the Bible is the word of God. How can God or I convince her that it is? How is God trying to save her? For me, He brought conviction. My mother doesn't feel convicted.
It is the Holy Spirits job to do the convincing, it is our job to present the Truth. Show her the Truth. Show her The Truth of God's Word, by your life.
Let your life be so infused with the life of Christ in you, that it will baffle and amaze. Let Gods love so permeate all that you are, that it has no choice but to overflow to all you come in contact with. Let the only explanation for you...be Jesus Christ!
The same sun that softens wax, hardens clay. To the humble, the gospel of Jesus will soften the heart. But to the proud, it will harden the heart. We cannot make someone believe. We can only be who we are as Children of God. And that is all that God wants from us.
Make no doubt about it, you are going through a difficult situation. Difficult for you, but not too difficult for God. This is meant to help and I pray it is accepted as such.
Peace
I'm not at all upset by your post. Thank you for wanting to help. But back to the OP, do you think God is trying to save all sinners? If He is all-powerful, He can save all sinners. But we know that He doesn't save them all. Why would He convince me so strongly about His word and not convince my loved ones? Why didn't He make himself known to my father? Why me? Why do I deserve salvation more than my siblings?
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 4:32:17 PM
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terryjohn
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Again it is not about being good or sinless. I don't know what it is that makes us all want others to have our faith when in reality we should have theirs. Yes our friends may not be as good as us but then again we may not be as good as others so let us hope God does not have a pass or fail mark save that of our faith and love. Perhaps your friend has more faith than you or me if they think God will be happy with their works while they have no faith. Nevertheless, good works can only be achieved in faith for without faith it is impossible to please Him. If two men were to give all they have to feed the poor and only one had faith you could say the one without faith has sinned. For sinlessness is about knowing and loving God not about not doing things which men see as sins for the sin is in not knowing and loving God.
The question is then not how good are you, but, do you know and love God?
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 4:44:42 PM
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ladyichigo
Posts: 398
Joined: 10/23/2007
From: Makiki
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quote:
Why would He convince me so strongly about His word and not convince my loved ones? Why didn't He make himself known to my father? Why me? Why do I deserve salvation more than my siblings?
Maybe He has plans through you for a bigger purpose. Maybe it is through you that something great will happen. Maybe He will use you to bring your family to Him. Maybe through you a whole generation of believers, passionate for Christ will be born. Perhaps God will instill His conviction in their hearts through you. Maybe the seed has already been planted. It's all in His timing. Keep witnessing to them in Christ's love.
Oh, and nobody deserves salvation. We are all undeserving. That's why it's grace.
_____________________________
Mari
Attending church and being confirmed does not define what a Christian is, though it may define a “religious” person.
David Wright - AiG
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RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? - 5/16/2008 4:56:15 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 548
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
The person I mentioned in the OP is my mother. She doesn't know that the Bible is the word of God. How can God or I convince her that it is? How is God trying to save her? For me, He brought conviction. My mother doesn't feel convicted.
It is the Holy Spirits job to do the convincing, it is our job to present the Truth. Show her the Truth. Show her The Truth of God's Word, by your life.
Let your life be so infused with the life of Christ in you, that it will baffle and amaze. Let Gods love so permeate all that you are, that it has no choice but to overflow to all you come in contact with. Let the only explanation for you...be Jesus Christ!
The same sun that softens wax, hardens clay. To the humble, the gospel of Jesus will soften the heart. But to the proud, it will harden the heart. We cannot make someone believe. We can only be who we are as Children of God. And that is all that God wants from us.
Make no doubt about it, you are going through a difficult situation. Difficult for you, but not too difficult for God. This is meant to help and I pray it is accepted as such.
Peace
I'm not at all upset by your post. Thank you for wanting to help. But back to the OP, do you think God is trying to save all sinners? If He is all-powerful, He can save all sinners. But we know that He doesn't save them all. Why would He convince me so strongly about His word and not convince my loved ones? Why didn't He make himself known to my father? Why me? Why do I deserve salvation more than my siblings?
Jesus draws all to Himself,
"But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." John 12:32
It is pride that prevents one from receiving the truth,
"But He gives a greater grace Therefore it says, " GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE." James 4:6
No one deserves salvation. It is a gift of God for those who neither deserve it nor have earned it. If you are in Christ it is because you humbled yourself and accepted His free gift of His Son.
God will get all those who have accepted what He has freely offered to all...His Son. He does not need us. He wants for nothing.
Thats all I have time for now...
Peace
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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