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Tinkerbell_ -> An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 9:48:28 AM)

Here is something I have been struggling with and thought I'd throw it to the wolves you here and see what you think. [8D]

Thing 2 (8 years old) has a very outgoing personality. As such he likes to wear his hair in different styles. Right now it's long and curly, but wants to get it cut to where he can spike it or put it in a "faux-hawk" with the ends tipped a lighter colour. With summer coming up and not having to worry about school rules (even though the only school rule is hair can't be anything that isn't considered a 'natural colour') I thought it would be a cute idea.

My parents on the other hand...are extremely...hmmmm...not sure what the word is, but they think anyone who wears their hair in a 'different' hairstyle is a 'punk'. I personally blame my generation for that. [8D]

My mother always calls him, "weird' or says, "If you keep that up he'll be weird" and makes comments like that. When he told her what he wanted to do with his hair yesterday she said, "Then you can have someone else take you to school because I don't take punks to school." *sigh*

My father told him that he was a "criminal waiting to happen" and he wasn't allowed in "his house" with "his weirdness".

My parents keep the Things for me while I work, and while I want to honour them, and respect them, I also don't want to stifle Thing 2's originality. He's such a sweet kid with a great heart and I'm a fairly liberal parent and don't mind little stuff like this.

So...whatcha think? Just leave Thing 2's hair alone, or do it anyway and see what my parents say? [8D]



Szaftoo -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 9:59:44 AM)

First, if it were me, I would tell my parents I love them dearly and am happy they are involved in the lives of my kids, however, I would insist all negative remarks about them, how they dress or their future stop immediately.

I always encouraged my kids to have their own style, however, I would discourage anything that was too "different". Fortunately that was never an issue with them and not something I had to deal with.



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 10:05:42 AM)

Around here, spiked hair, and faux-hawks are quite common. The only thing he would be doing differently would be the hair colour. Although I have noticed more boys have recently had highlights put in their hair so it really isn't that radical.

The advice is great! I'll definitely try it. Can't hurt anyway. [:)]



AlwaysR8chel -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 11:07:55 AM)

.
.
.
.
........ my kids are soooo independent.


It's too bad that your parents aren't able to see past the 'looks' and find that the character of your Things probably far outweigh their looks...

My oldest girl is 18.... she just shaved her head last weekend... she now looks like GI Jane.

It wasn't a style I would have chosen... but I honor her search for her own identity.

Her hair has no bearing on what a wonderful person she is....


Somehow.... we must learn to speak 'positives' into our children's lives... there is enough negativity out there to tempt them onto the wrong paths....

[;)]



Kat_D -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 11:37:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Szaftoo

First, if it were me, I would tell my parents I love them dearly and am happy they are involved in the lives of my kids, however, I would insist all negative remarks about them, how they dress or their future stop immediately.

I always encouraged my kids to have their own style, however, I would discourage anything that was too "different". Fortunately that was never an issue with them and not something I had to deal with.


I agree with this.

This is off topic, but I just have to ask...why do you refer to your son as "Thing 2"? I assume you also have a "Thing 1"? I'm sorry, I just don't get it.[sm=sadquestion.gif]



Konstantinos -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 11:40:15 AM)

i didnt know one could murder with hair.

i'd say cut it the way he wants it. hes 8 not a 15 year old teenager..



preserved -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 12:23:15 PM)

I am with you Kat_D...

Tinkerbell...why are you referring to your son and thing 2??? Is that part of being liberal...

I am more on the conservative side...I think an 8 year is too young to allow how he wants to wear his hair...I do not agree with the name calling from your parents?? Since he is your child and you are liberal do what you feel is right? However, based upon your parents's thinking...you may need to seek a babysitter...



WalkingwithHim2 -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 1:08:22 PM)

Tink has two boys: Thing1 and Thing2 and if y'all have ever visited Disney you would have seen millions of t-shirts that say Thing whatever number on them.



ddsisson -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 1:14:03 PM)

quote:

This is off topic, but I just have to ask...why do you refer to your son as "Thing 2"? I assume you also have a "Thing 1"? I'm sorry, I just don't get it.


I don't know the answer to this, but I am thinking it is possibly a reference to a character in Dr. Seuss books.



WalkingwithHim2 -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 1:20:50 PM)

Tink I forgot to add ..... go ahead and let 'im get a hawk. It's only hair and it will obviously grow out.



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 2:48:32 PM)

Sorry! I forgot that not everyone knows me and the boys! *grin*

On here I always refer to them as Thing 1 and Thing 2. Yes, it's a play on Dr. Seuss' books. Makes me more comfortable since Thing 1's name isn't very common. *grin* Plus my girlfriend once started calling them that so it stuck.

I'm not so liberal that I throw away all values and morals, but I have learned to pick my battles. The boys are allowed (by me anyway) to do what they wish with their hair (as long as it conforms to school rules) but I don't allow girlfriends (and yes, 2nd graders have 'boyfriends and 'girlfriends' oy!), no piercings, and pants MUST fit around the waist. And the boys aren't rebellious. They just like fitting in with their friend and being comfortable (especially Thing 2). I don't have a problem with that, as long as they understand who is in charge of their life, and who they have to answer to the most.

My parents are VERY conservative, and yes the name calling does need to stop. I will bring this up with them the next time they say something.

Thanks all! *huggles*



Kat_D -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 3:13:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_

Sorry! I forgot that not everyone knows me and the boys! *grin*

On here I always refer to them as Thing 1 and Thing 2. Yes, it's a play on Dr. Seuss' books. Makes me more comfortable since Thing 1's name isn't very common. *grin* Plus my girlfriend once started calling them that so it stuck.



Ah! Thanks for letting me know. That's funny....I knew it had to be something like that! [:D]



pbaribeault -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 6:23:04 PM)

I see 2 very different issues here -- so bear with me and I'll do them one at a time.

FIRST:

You've mentioned that you don't mind complying with school rules about hairstyles. I think that if anyone (your parents) are providing childcare or transportation services, then they too should be free to set standards for the appearance of their charges (grandchildren) while they are in their care.

Therefore, I support your parent's freedom to decline to provide rides and/or babysitting if your son does his hair in a manner that they find humiliating or offensive.

You would do well to instill this kind of perspective in your son, so that he can do a good job of considering all of his future "outgoing" desires in the wider world. When someone is providing him a service, they are free to stop doing it for any reason, so he would do well not to give them a reason, if he wants to keep getting what he's getting.

If he wants to do something, it may have a cost, or involve a loss. He should count that cost, weigh his options, and if he wants to go ahead, he has willingly chosen to give it up, just like a paying for anything else. It has not been unjustly removed from him, and there is no basis for resentment.

(I'm not saying that he should be allowed to decide to 'give up' his grandparents babysitting at this point in his life. At his age, you are the one weighing & deciding. But as you walk him through this thought process, he will begin to accept it as natural, and he will suffer a lot less frustration in life.)

SECOND:

Your parents are WAY out of line in their personal attacks, name calling and belittling of your son. You can NOT allow this to continue. Regardless of my first point, the things that they have said are far too hurtful for a boy his age to endure, especially on a regular basis, especially from trusted family members and care-providers.

However seems most natural in your family setting, you need to give them a good solid message that they are no longer permitted to insult him by calling him weird or a punk, and that they may call him a criminal when he breaks the law, and not before. They do not have to support his 'questionable choices' (give them a vocabulary that they can use) and they can set standards for their home, but that they will watch how they speak to him. They may want to err on the side of, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."



DustyLady -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 8:45:12 PM)

I worked in the public schools for 15 years, and I have certainly seen a lot worse than what your son wants to do. I've seen enough piercings and provocative clothing to last me a lifetime. Not to mention language and behavior! A haircut that will grow out in a month is not something to get all worked up about. I think it's much better to allow your son to do a little supervised experimentation, instead of waiting until he's older and then having him do something without your knowledge. By supporting him now, you are letting him know that you are willing to at least listen to ideas that he may have in the future.

Dusty



Prairiehiker -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/14/2008 10:08:32 PM)

I don't really have an advice, but I just want to relate a story that happened to my co-worker's son. Just like your son, he wanted to do something different with his hair. He's 11 years old. He wanted a mohawk and he dyed his hair partially reddish pink. His dad saw nothing wrong with it.

However, he became an easy target in school. Kids alienated him and assumed he was a bad boy because of the image he was projecting. There was an incident that caused his dad (my co worker) to almost have a hard attack. Two girls were accused him of being anti-Semitic and a bigot because they just didn't like him. It became a huge thing in school (it was during vacation in one of the summer programs). His dad ended up pulling him out of the class.

So, while I see nothing wrong with expressing his individual style, you have to warn him of potential consequences of being different from the rest of the crowd. It would all depend on his personality too. Some kids can pull it off. Some can't. My co-worker's kid is really one of those kids who doesn't want to blend in, and doesn't want to go along with the crowd. He's a good kid but rather quiet. His personality plus his personal style made him viewed as strange and prevented him from having friends.



Focusing -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/15/2008 9:11:22 AM)

Hi Tink!

Let's see ... the munchkin wants to do fun stuff with his hair too, and I'm a little more on the conservative side, but understand his desire to be unique and independent. So, we settled for a hairstyle that allows him to spike it up using a wax-type gel (or stiff hairspray), or he can just let it do it's own natural thing. Also, I had some highlights put in his hair. It was a big huge deal for him, but since he's already a blonde, it doesn't show too much. [;)] I'm thinking about having some brown lowlights put in during the summer just for fun (but not a lot, only on the top where he spikes it). We have also have used the temporary hair coloring gel for one-day fun. It's a pain to put on, but he likes it, and it washes out in one wash.

Now as to your parents ... [sm=aside.gif]

They need to stop putting their grandson down. It's verbal abuse. It lowers his self-image and self-esteem. It places all kinds of conditions on their love. And he might be tempted to fight that level of *oppression* by rebelling even more when he's around them. I agree that it may be time to find other arrangements for the Things. I realize this is a topic for another thread, but I just can't help saying it: you need to consider their emotional well-being here. (And I wouldn't say that if I didn't like you ... well, okay, I would say it anyway [;)]) BTDT ... and yes, it can be uncomfortable.



stampinlady -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/15/2008 9:32:34 AM)

quote:

I think that if anyone (your parents) are providing childcare or transportation services, then they too should be free to set standards for the appearance of their charges (grandchildren) while they are in their care.


What????? Hmmmmmmm. [sm=crazy.gif]



Szaftoo -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/15/2008 11:27:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbaribeault

I think that if anyone (your parents) are providing childcare or transportation services, then they too should be free to set standards for the appearance of their charges (grandchildren) while they are in their care.

Therefore, I support your parent's freedom to decline to provide rides and/or babysitting if your son does his hair in a manner that they find humiliating or offensive.



I must disagree. Does this also apply to their choice of friends, music, books, etc. Grandparents are important in the lives of their grandchildren, but they shouldn't have that much power.



WalkingwithHim2 -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/15/2008 11:28:41 AM)

Tink.....you are a good momma and you have a brain that works regardless of what others may be thinkin right now. We are talking about a haircut ... he's not asking for a piercing for cryin out loud! Besides....not many people older than our generation even know what a faux hawk is.



pbaribeault -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/15/2008 3:57:36 PM)

quote:

I must disagree. Does this also apply to their choice of friends, music, books, etc. Grandparents are important in the lives of their grandchildren, but they shouldn't have that much power.


Yes, I think so.

Grandparents are not under any obligation to provide child care for their kids. If they want to, fine. If they don't want to, why do they need a reason that seems valid to us? They are free to just not want to.

They are free to not want to provide child care for the most trivial of reasons, for crazy reasons, even for reasons that aren't actually true -- simply because they were never obligated to provide child care in the first place. Therefore they can stop for any reason they like, whether it is a reasonable reason or not.

There is no "power" involved at all, except control of their own lives and how they spend their own time -- the decision of whether they do childcare or not.

Now, reasonable people don't tend to do this based on silly preferences, and I did say "while they are in their care" -- So, when applied to friends, music and books, I would think it quite reasonable for grandparents not to allow particular friends around, nor to allow music or literature that offends them into their home.



WalkingwithHim2 -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/15/2008 4:09:26 PM)

Offering to watch your grandkids is not the same as being obligated to do such.



pbaribeault -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/15/2008 5:20:22 PM)

Exactly, so you are free not to offer, if you don't like his hair style.

(Of course, you are not free to personally attack him over it, though.)



stampinlady -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/15/2008 8:23:19 PM)

quote:

My parents keep the Things for me while I work,


If my parents acted like yours I would never want my kids near them. Calling a child names is so harmful. I say find someone else to watch your kids.



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/15/2008 9:43:06 PM)

*sigh*

Unfortunately not having my parents keep the Things isn't an option right now. I don't have the money to do it and I get minimal child support. Sooo...I do grin and bear it, but I will definitely be talking to my parents about the way they talk to the boys, especially Thing 2. I think in the next year or so my situation will change and I won't need to rely on them, but right now I do.

Thank you all so much for your comments. I will definitely be in prayer about this. I did talk to Thing 2 and he did say it wasn't that big of a deal about his hair, he just thought it looked cool. He's a good kid and fairly easy going so I'm not going to worry too much about it.

This is a behaviour I'm noticing more and more out of my parents. Last night my mother told me I looked like a 'harlot' woman because I wore red lipstick to match my Sparky shirt. [8|]

I'm definitely going to need prayer. [8D]



stampinlady -> RE: An interesting thought... (5/16/2008 9:08:15 AM)

If they are believers I would think that it is perfectly Biblical to hold them accountable for their actions and words.

Do you have any friends at church that would gladly keep you kids for you? I've thought about doing this for those in need, but haven't persued it.



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