RE: Smoking While Pregnant (Full Version)

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Jhud -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/13/2008 5:14:05 PM)

quote:

Do you all truly disagree with the simple idea (absent of the implementation) of protecting unborn children from cigarette smoke's effects, or do you just enjoy mocking my answer to the demand of "come up with a way it would work right away"? I said earlier that it was an off-the-top-of-my-head response, but it was the idea which was important. Brainstorming can certainly be done for enforcement methods.


I think my philosophy is that our legal system should do everything in it's power to protect the safety of it's citizens up until the point where such power begins to impinge on the rights of citizens, or unduly empower the government to intrude into our lives.

It's often a hard line to draw, but I think in this case the benefits don't outweigh the risks.

As a moral conservative, I would have the government go much farther in many cases.



HisCovenant -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/13/2008 5:15:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McFatty

Do you all truly disagree with the simple idea (absent of the implementation) of protecting unborn children from cigarette smoke's effects, or do you just enjoy mocking my answer to the demand of "come up with a way it would work right away"? I said earlier that it was an off-the-top-of-my-head response, but it was the idea which was important. Brainstorming can certainly be done for enforcement methods.

I'm not mocking your answer. I think it's a valid point to make that the idea of governmental consequences shouldn't just be dismissed because of fear that it may set precedence for further interference or because an easy way of enforcement isn't obvious.

I do, however, think the idea of enticing law enforcement to ask women if they are pregnant is funny- not to mock you, but because of the outrage I know women feel at being asked such a thing when they are not.



KirstinT84 -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/13/2008 10:50:13 PM)

I would have to say that smoking while pregnant is not abuse, unwise maybe, but abuse? Certainly not. Never mind that we'd all have to come up with a workable definition of "personhood" before we could even begin to call it "abuse", but that's totally beside the point. One of the very worst things for an unborn child is stress. Stress isn't even good for adults, it harms most systems in your body over the long-term. Depending on the amount that a woman was smoking before she became pregnant, doctors will sometimes expressly tell a woman NOT to quit smoking because the stress of quitting can be more harmful to a fetus than the smoke itself. For a woman who smokes alot (a couple packs a day or so), she will often be advised to cut back, but not to quit.



LaurainAL -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/14/2008 8:24:24 AM)

quote:

Depending on the amount that a woman was smoking before she became pregnant, doctors will sometimes expressly tell a woman NOT to quit smoking because the stress of quitting can be more harmful to a fetus than the smoke itself. For a woman who smokes alot (a couple packs a day or so), she will often be advised to cut back, but not to quit.


Seriously? I would think that the risks of 2nd hand smoke are great enough that Doctors would advice all people to stop smoking.



P31W -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/14/2008 8:43:17 AM)

Believe it or not I had a friend who DID NOT SMOKE and who Hated smoking be told by her doctor (S) - to smoke. Yes she went to three differant doctors and they ALL AGREEDED.

To this day I don't understand their reasoning behind it. All I know is her 26 year old daughter is doing fine.

It was funny to "watch" her try to smoke.

As is pretty common in these threads I find that Jack and I are pretty much on the same page here.



Jhud -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/14/2008 11:01:22 AM)

quote:

Believe it or not I had a friend who DID NOT SMOKE and who Hated smoking be told by her doctor (S) - to smoke. Yes she went to three differant doctors and they ALL AGREEDED.

To this day I don't understand their reasoning behind it. All I know is her 26 year old daughter is doing fine.


That is crazy!

I am trying to think of what their reasoning might be...

"Ma'am, you have an alarming lack of carcingens in your body..."

"Your lungs are too efficient, we are going to have to reduce the amount of oxygen the baby is recieving..."

"The Surgeon General is a commie, smoke two Lucky Strikes and call me in the morning..."



KirstinT84 -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/15/2008 3:50:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
Seriously? I would think that the risks of 2nd hand smoke are great enough that Doctors would advice all people to stop smoking.


Yup, I actually know someone who just had a baby that was in this situation. She smoked 2 packs a day and her doctor told her to at least cut it in half, but not to quit, especially not cold turkey because the stress she would suffer from quitting would be much more harmful to her baby, and could cause her to miscarry. Apparently this outweighed the risks associated with smoking. I guess the moral of the story is to quit before you get pregnant if you're going to quit at all.



stampinlady -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/15/2008 9:14:34 AM)

quote:

I guess the moral of the story is to quit before you get pregnant if you're going to quit at all.


Yes, this is the best thing to do. Smoking is an addiction.



MissInnocent -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/16/2008 9:20:32 PM)

I'm with Jack on this I can't figure for the life of me why someone could be told TO smoke. Unless she was around a lot of second-hand smoke so the baby was getting something off that and...no serious there is NO explanation for that cept the doctors are IDIOTS even if the child did turn out fine. I know a girl that turned out fine despite her 35+yr-old mother smoking AND drinking while she was pregnant. That does NOT mean it's a good thing to do. And any three doctors that would tell me to do it would likely get punched out. Talk about stressing a pregnant woman out!



clag4christ -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/17/2008 4:24:56 PM)

quote:

No, not abuse. Such a strong word for an act that may or may not have harmful consequences to a fetus. I believe it has been determined that smoking while pregnant has slight effects on birthweight of babies.


Right...it's only got a 'slight effect' on birthweight. I don't buy that for one single second. Both my sister and I had ill effects because my mother smoked while she was pg with both of us. We were both born prematurely because her bags of water broke before 33 weeks (smoking causes the amniotic membrane not to be as thick as it would normally be in a healthy pregnancy) at 4lbs. 4 ozs. each. I also had the wonderful distinction of being born with Necrotizing Enterocolitis and had to have part of my intestines removed before I was even a month old.

How's that for consequences for the unborn of the selfish parents? It is absolutely abuse...



MissInnocent -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/17/2008 4:41:30 PM)

I'm so sorry to hear that Clag. I heard a story once of someone warning their preg. friend to quit smoking and she refused...the baby was born at around a pound and was DEAD. Surrree it's not harmful.



clag4christ -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/17/2008 4:50:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissInnocent

I'm so sorry to hear that Clag. I heard a story once of someone warning their preg. friend to quit smoking and she refused...the baby was born at around a pound and was DEAD. Surrree it's not harmful.



Yes...it's very sad...



small_creation -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/21/2008 2:18:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: clag4christ

quote:

No, not abuse. Such a strong word for an act that may or may not have harmful consequences to a fetus. I believe it has been determined that smoking while pregnant has slight effects on birthweight of babies.


Right...it's only got a 'slight effect' on birthweight. I don't buy that for one single second. Both my sister and I had ill effects because my mother smoked while she was pg with both of us. We were both born prematurely because her bags of water broke before 33 weeks (smoking causes the amniotic membrane not to be as thick as it would normally be in a healthy pregnancy) at 4lbs. 4 ozs. each. I also had the wonderful distinction of being born with Necrotizing Enterocolitis and had to have part of my intestines removed before I was even a month old.

How's that for consequences for the unborn of the selfish parents? It is absolutely abuse...



Please forgive me for not researching a medical topic before spouting off some loose facts. I stand corrected that there certainly can be harmful effects, lethal even, to a baby if the mother smokes.

Where I think think my emphasis lies in this discussion is my belief that individuals should be given choices instead of forced to conform to certain behaviors.

I believe that God gave us our free will so we could use it to glorify him (or not glorify him). The choice is ours. Anyone trying to rob me of my choices is in effect robbing me of a God-given right to use my free will.

So when I hear an inflammatory word like "abuse" being thrown around in any given discussion, my ears perk way up. 'Cause after an action has been declared an abuse, legislative changes aren't far behind.

And we are over-regulated already to the point that my free will is compromised enough.

So no, I do not think smoking while pregnant should be considered an abuse, any more than driving around with a load of children that are not seatbelted should be considered ABUSE.

This is a place where I think proper wordage is highly relevant.

j



DenimDiva -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/27/2008 12:07:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaurainAL

quote:

Depending on the amount that a woman was smoking before she became pregnant, doctors will sometimes expressly tell a woman NOT to quit smoking because the stress of quitting can be more harmful to a fetus than the smoke itself. For a woman who smokes alot (a couple packs a day or so), she will often be advised to cut back, but not to quit.


Seriously? I would think that the risks of 2nd hand smoke are great enough that Doctors would advice all people to stop smoking.


I was told not to quit for two of my pregnancies because of the stress and the amount of second hand smoke I was around anyway.



P31W -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/27/2008 8:24:32 AM)

quote:

I'm with Jack on this I can't figure for the life of me why someone could be told TO smoke. Unless she was around a lot of second-hand smoke so the baby was getting something off that and...no serious there is NO explanation for that cept the doctors are IDIOTS even if the child did turn out fine. I know a girl that turned out fine despite her 35+yr-old mother smoking AND drinking while she was pregnant. That does NOT mean it's a good thing to do. And any three doctors that would tell me to do it would likely get punched out. Talk about stressing a pregnant woman out!


I don't really know myself.

I do know it was pretty late term in her pregnancy, she was put on bedrest and it was not that she was told to be a two pack a day smoker. I think she said it was 4 per day. I don't know if she worked in an enviroment where others smoked all around her or not. I know up until then her home was smoke free so it's not like "she" had become addicted by second hand smoke.

I also believe she was take out of town to a larger teaching hospital to give brith. We have many large hospitals in our area that were top knotch even then but none were teachings and had the latest and best stuff.

I hope the next time I see her I remember to ask her. Otherwise the mintue we leave one another I will remember and it's going to drive me nuts.

For some reason my brain is yelling that it helped to release something in her body? But it's been so long now I could be way off the mark concerning "what good effects" it may have caused.



stampinlady -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/27/2008 9:23:29 AM)

quote:

So when I hear an inflammatory word like "abuse" being thrown around in any given discussion, my ears perk way up. 'Cause after an action has been declared an abuse, legislative changes aren't far behind.


Exactly. Do we take all children out of the house of smokers? Do you really want the government to step in and parent us more than they are now?



clag4christ -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/27/2008 4:54:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

quote:

So when I hear an inflammatory word like "abuse" being thrown around in any given discussion, my ears perk way up. 'Cause after an action has been declared an abuse, legislative changes aren't far behind.


Exactly. Do we take all children out of the house of smokers? Do you really want the government to step in and parent us more than they are now?


No...I wouldn't want that...however what my mother did to both my sister and I was/is abuse. Plain and simple. And when a woman who is pregnant and knows about it, still chooses her 'addiction' over the life that has been placed in her womb, knowing full well that poor innocent babe can be harmed and even die because of something she could stop if she chose to...well, that, my friends, is inexcusable.

But then again, my mother's selfish actions didn't just disappear after my sister and I were born...she did abuse us for real, according to the definition of abuse that is being bandied about in this thread...



DenimDiva -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/27/2008 4:57:50 PM)

Clag, I'm sorry that you and your sister suffered problems due to your mother smoking while she was pregnant. What are the odds that those problems would've happened even if she didn't smoke?



JimboFletch -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/27/2008 5:32:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W
For some reason my brain is yelling that it helped to release something in her body? But it's been so long now I could be way off the mark concerning "what good effects" it may have caused.

Carbon Monoxide? Adrenaline from lack of oxygen? Arsenic?

I once smoked 2 packs a day in the military due a stressful time. My lungs felt like they were seared by a hot poker. Maybe that's what those voodoo quacks were trying to accomplish.

There is NO medicinal value to smoking cigarettes. None. If there was, the tobacco industry would have published it all over the Internet, the media, and before Congress.

I have a big imagination, but I'm just not seeing this one. I don't care if this woman was Sister Teresa, I would only believe her story if I had been present when each "doctor" told her to start smoking.



clag4christ -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/28/2008 4:19:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

Clag, I'm sorry that you and your sister suffered problems due to your mother smoking while she was pregnant. What are the odds that those problems would've happened even if she didn't smoke?


My guess would be nothing...her mother had I believe 4-5 pregnancies (three carried to term) and they were all born full term and not early with no medical problems...



DenimDiva -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/28/2008 4:24:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: clag4christ

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

Clag, I'm sorry that you and your sister suffered problems due to your mother smoking while she was pregnant. What are the odds that those problems would've happened even if she didn't smoke?


My guess would be nothing...her mother had I believe 4-5 pregnancies (three carried to term) and they were all born full term and not early with no medical problems...


But that doesn't mean that the odds aren't there. Could it have been a problem that skips generations or could've been something inherited from your father?



clag4christ -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/28/2008 4:31:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

quote:

ORIGINAL: clag4christ

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

Clag, I'm sorry that you and your sister suffered problems due to your mother smoking while she was pregnant. What are the odds that those problems would've happened even if she didn't smoke?


My guess would be nothing...her mother had I believe 4-5 pregnancies (three carried to term) and they were all born full term and not early with no medical problems...


But that doesn't mean that the odds aren't there. Could it have been a problem that skips generations or could've been something inherited from your father?


My mother's mother was adopted...but since that was the case, I'm going to assume that her mother didn't have problems conceiving, especially since when my Gram was born the reasons for giving a baby up for adoption were pretty much limited to unwed pregnancy...

I don't know how I could have inherited NEC from my father, since I was in my mother's womb, and thus her 'too thin' amniotic sac, and her desire for cigarettes that denied me food and sustinance in the womb...



DenimDiva -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (5/31/2008 7:52:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: clag4christ

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

quote:

ORIGINAL: clag4christ

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

Clag, I'm sorry that you and your sister suffered problems due to your mother smoking while she was pregnant. What are the odds that those problems would've happened even if she didn't smoke?


My guess would be nothing...her mother had I believe 4-5 pregnancies (three carried to term) and they were all born full term and not early with no medical problems...


But that doesn't mean that the odds aren't there. Could it have been a problem that skips generations or couldve been something inherited from your father?


My mother's mother was adopted...but since that was the case, I'm going to assume that her mother didn't have problems conceiving, especially since when my Gram was born the reasons for giving a baby up for adoption were pretty much limited to unwed pregnancy...

I don't know how I could have inherited NEC from my father, since I was in my mother's womb, and thus her 'too thin' amniotic sac, and her desire for cigarettes that denied me food and sustenance in the womb...


I'm just wondering how much your mom was educated? When I was pg with my 23 yo ds (my oldest) I was told that smoking might lead to a lower birth weight and maybe he'd be a little early. I had several drs. who made it sound like no big deal to be smoking while pg.



clag4christ -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (6/1/2008 3:47:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

quote:

ORIGINAL: clag4christ

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

quote:

ORIGINAL: clag4christ

quote:

ORIGINAL: DenimDiva

Clag, I'm sorry that you and your sister suffered problems due to your mother smoking while she was pregnant. What are the odds that those problems would've happened even if she didn't smoke?


My guess would be nothing...her mother had I believe 4-5 pregnancies (three carried to term) and they were all born full term and not early with no medical problems...


But that doesn't mean that the odds aren't there. Could it have been a problem that skips generations or couldve been something inherited from your father?


My mother's mother was adopted...but since that was the case, I'm going to assume that her mother didn't have problems conceiving, especially since when my Gram was born the reasons for giving a baby up for adoption were pretty much limited to unwed pregnancy...

I don't know how I could have inherited NEC from my father, since I was in my mother's womb, and thus her 'too thin' amniotic sac, and her desire for cigarettes that denied me food and sustenance in the womb...


I'm just wondering how much your mom was educated? When I was pg with my 23 yo ds (my oldest) I was told that smoking might lead to a lower birth weight and maybe he'd be a little early. I had several drs. who made it sound like no big deal to be smoking while pg.



Coulda been that she was just ignorant on the harmful effects on me...but then if that's true she had absolutely no excuse for continuing her dangerous and lethal 'habit' while she was pg with my sister (9 months later). She'd seen first hand what it did to me and yet she continued and my sister was born early and breech (through a c-section).



Mrs.Wifey -> RE: Smoking While Pregnant (6/1/2008 6:26:54 PM)

I don't think they knew 26-28 years ago what the full effects of smoking during pregnancy were or Doctors were not telling their patients because I know several people in that age bracket who had parents that smoked all during their pregnancy. Their information was not the same as what we have now....

I don't think it's abuse, but I also don't think it's smart.

It's along the same lines as eating processed junk food for the sake of convenience in my opinion. I wouldn't feed it to my child because I don't think it's smart, but I don't think that people who do feed it to their children are abusing them(with the exception of obesity in children).



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