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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 2:15:51 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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I've been there, done that too. And it still comes down to man negating something clearly outlined in scripture. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it is not there. IMO, that's pretty presumptuous. I am told that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, but I didn't see it. I am told that Christians are suppose to be able to do greater works that Christ, haven't really seen that either. Does that make His word false? I'll tell you what the Bible says, "Let every man be a liar, but let His word be true." And I'm with God on this one. 
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ORIGINAL: earthless
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ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
So, let me get this strait . . . just because YOU don't see it, and it's written in the Bible, that means it doesn't exist? Is that what you're saying? So the Bible is false? OIC. 
Dear friend, that is not what I am saying.. just a very interesting observation. I don't know if you have even read the hundreds (if not thousands) of posts myself and many others have made in the Church sub-forum regarding this topic of Apostles and Prophets for today, have you?
It's not as new topic around here and my perspectives/rebuttals to what you shared earlier have been more than laid out with Scripture and context. I would hate to rehash a topic that has been more than amply covered.
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 3:22:34 PM
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wintery
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
I think that is part of the reason Prophets get such a bad rep in the Church. Well, because we say the gift doesn't exist, despite scripture after scripture that says otherwise. Then the individual has to go "underground" in the church.
The Scripture-adhering underground prophet in the NT church--"obviously" is more correct than the shameful, prophet-rejecting _rest_ of the church.
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ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Seeking to be obedient, they may approach someone and tell them "a word."
Sneaking around to give those important words which edify the church--this is what I'm reading here?
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ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
The person they "prophesied" to is worste off than before they came--even if the news is good.
I think it is always worse to have someone become an intermediary between yourself and God--1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 5:36:33 PM
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earthless
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Maybe Dakota can be the very first person to ever name someone living today that holds the Office of Prophet.
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 5:53:58 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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wintry,
Forgive me if I did not fully apprhend your post. But I'll take a stab at it.
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The Scripture-adhering underground prophet in the NT church--"obviously" is more correct than the shameful, prophet-rejecting _rest_ of the church. If the scriptures are true, and the church says they are false, which side will you be on? The side of the scriptures or the side of the church? Please answer this one, k?
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Sneaking around to give those important words which edify the church--this is what I'm reading here? It is amazing the way those in the western world appear to be out of touch with the rest of Christendom. Many christians sneak around in countries and regimes that forbid the gospel. Miriam was "sneaking around" to hide Moses. The spies sent into Jericho were "sneaking around" on an errand from God, David had to "sneak out" of the the King's household because Saul intened to kill him, the times would fail me to tell of christians, (even Paul) sneaking! And some were killed--okay, many were killed. And many of their names are not remembered. If God tells you to do something that is Biblical, will you NOT do it, because everyone else says it's wrong? Everyone says fornication and homosexuality are fine, the scriptures say something different . . . do you agree with them or the Word of God?
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I think it is always worse to have someone become an intermediary between yourself and God--1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
This was not the best use of that scripture. The Prophets are not acting as mediators between man and God. Obviously, that is Jesus position as scripture repeatedly tells us. Scripture also repeatedly tells us that there are prophets. I guess it is possible to read something over and over again and not really comprihend it? Because the Bible is pretty clear about all of this. Just because we get it wrong, doesn't mean God's word is not real. I'd rather stand on God's word than my own experience, or that of anyone else.
Please understand, if you cut off certain parts of the gospel that just don't fit your own logic, you begin to create doctrines and preach another Jesus. It's so vitally important for the church to understand that it is not our place to pick and choose from the Bible. This is why the Way is Narrow to get to the Kingdom of Heaven, because some people just won't accept everything about Him and His Book. You cannot pick and choose the gospel. You just can't. If you're having trouble accepting certain aspects, get on your knees and begin to pray, fast, and ask God to give you an understanding, teachable, and yielded heart. God said His word will stand, if you cannot believe all of it, what is the point? You've got to ask yourself, do I really believe everything in this Bible? And if you are struggling with your own faith in this area, reach out to someone who can help, but please do not EVER tell someone to dismiss parts of the gospel based on human logic and personal experience. Please!
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 5:55:59 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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Maybe earthless can be one of countless hundreds who do not accept the Word of God?
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Maybe Dakota can be the very first person to ever name someone living today that holds the Office of Prophet.
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 6:19:19 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Maybe earthless can be one of countless hundreds who do not accept the Word of God?
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Maybe Dakota can be the very first person to ever name someone living today that holds the Office of Prophet.
I believe that's a TOS violation, not sure. And it is now painfully obvious you're not aware of my posts/testimony on these boards. But regardless, I wholly accept the 66 books of the Bible as God's absolute Word for all of mankind. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
Why don't I ever see you posting in the current and well documented threads we have on the topic of the Office of Prophet?
Please, be the first person to ever give me the name of a living individual that holds the Office of Prophet.
< Message edited by earthless -- 5/7/2008 6:25:25 PM >
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 6:28:07 PM
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earthless
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Dakota,
In order to be fair to all involved and not have to rehash what has already been posted, here is a quick listing of the threads that discuss what we're now, again, doing so from the beginning:
What are the tests for Prophets?
Are there any Prophets anymore?
Prophets?
Word of Faith
Benny Hinn, False Prophet and False Teacher
I hope these hope you in your study on this subject.
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 6:43:42 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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earthless, I'm sorry you feel that I was being rude. That was definately said tongue in cheek. I'd think you'd appreciate such humor. But, I guess not. Anywhoo, things don't always go over so great on the internet.
GREAT! So you do believe? I accept the truth of the Gospel. That's it. Anyone or thing that points a believer in the opposite direction of scripture always makes me uneasy.
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Why don't I ever see you posting in the current and well documented threads we have on the topic of the Office of Prophet? Because the truth is obvious. I did post in a thread about prophets--I think I even started one. So, I'm pretty clear where most people stand on this. And I do not delight in the discussion when it is SO obvious in scripture. To me, it would be the equivalent of debating the existence of Jesus Christ and then calling myself a christian.
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Please, be the first person to ever give me the name of a living individual that holds the Office of Prophet. Sorry, this is a public forum, and I wouldn't give you their names. But the office is real. Earthless, for some of us here posting, this Jesus Christ thing is real. We believe it and we live it every single day. We believe in child-like faith. However, I am not saying it is not real for you (I cannot know your heart): but I find it puzzling why you would disparge something spoken about so repeatedly and thoroughly in the NT? Why?
Is it because you have not seen it?
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 6:57:15 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
earthless, I'm sorry you feel that I was being rude. That was definately said tongue in cheek. I'd think you'd appreciate such humor.
Lord knows I usually always do, being as sarcastic and cynical as I am. But this is a topic that has, believe it or not, brought out people stalking me, death threats, etc..
We live in a time where for some.. ever daring to "touch their anointed" brings out a rabid response that is rarely seen outside the kingdom of the cults.
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ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
But, I guess not. Anywhoo, things don't always go over so great on the internet.
No worries, bro/sis.. tone is definitely a hard thing to sometimes properly convey over the Internet.
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ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
GREAT! So you do believe? I accept the truth of the Gospel. That's it. Anyone or thing that points a believer in the opposite direction of scripture always makes me uneasy.
I am not doing any justice to my posts here. What I mean is that the threads I linked you to more than reveal why I do not accept the role of people today having the actual Office of Apostle or the Office of Prophet.
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ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Sorry, this is a public forum, and I wouldn't give you their names.
This is what I cannot understand - if these people, according to you and others, are holders of the Office of Prophet - then they are speaking direct words "Thus saith the Lord..." from their lips to the ears of all believers.
Their words/prophecies need to be shared for all of the Church. Yet, when individuals are named - it is revealed that they have spoken false/failed prophecies, so that disqualifies them.
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ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
But the office is real. Earthless, for some of us here posting, this Jesus Christ thing is real.
For me it is as well, I simply do not buy into the Charismania of the day.
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ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
We believe it and we live it every single day. We believe in child-like faith. However, I am not saying it is not real for you (I cannot know your heart): but I find it puzzling why you would disparge something spoken about so repeatedly and thoroughly in the NT? Why?
Is it because you have not seen it?
I have seen it done and seen their prophecies not come to pass. Yet they keep refering to themselves as "Prophets" and according to Scripture they are not.
Not a single individual on the TV circuit that is called or calls themself a Prophet is one. If they are, I want to know who they are so I can test their teachings and prophecies in light of Scripture and historical truth.
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 7:11:44 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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Earthless,
This:
quote:
I am not doing any justice to my posts here. What I mean is that the threads I linked you to more than reveal why I do not accept the role of people today having the actual Office of Apostle or the Office of Prophet. is a red flag. You are saying "I do not accept." Always the major and underlying issue. I can accept the fact that you "do not accept what scripture teaches on this." It is your life as you choose to live it. However, please recognize that it is you who do not accept it. That does not negate its validity in scripture or its varacity to the body of Christ as outlined in the Bible. Some people choose not to believe in Christ, it is again their choice.
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Their words/prophecies need to be shared for all of the Church. Yet, when individuals are named - it is revealed that they have spoken false/failed prophecies, so that disqualifies them. Quite frankly, I do not know of any "famous" prophets myself. Oh, well. The Bible tells us specifically how to spot a false prophet and a real prophet. We either use that wisdom and direction or, we opt for a flat out rejection or acceptance of all prophets. It takes a little more work, consecration, etc. to use God's method, of discernment, wisdom, using scripture. Most people don't like a lot of work when it comes to Christianity. That is why the ranks are few.
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For me it is as well, I simply do not buy into the Charismania of the day.
Charisma of the day is one thing, the innerant word of God is quite another. Shall I reject christianity simply because there are so many charlatan selling the gospel for so much? God forbid.
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I have seen it done and seen their prophecies not come to pass. Yet they keep refering to themselves as "Prophets" and according to Scripture they are not. I suppose you are referring to false prophets here? We've got scripture that covers that too.
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Not a single individual on the TV circuit that is called or calls themself a Prophet is one. If they are, I want to know who they are so I can test their teachings and prophecies in light of Scripture and historical truth. Hmmm. Sound like you are used to battling Televangelist stuff. Sorry, I never mentioned a T.V. T.V. personalities, religous or secular do not set the tone for what I will believe in the Bible--period. If T.V. Charlatans make you lose faith in what is clearly written in the Bible, then they are just as effective on you as the people who actually believe them.
Lose faith in men. Go ahead. But never lose faith in the Word of God. Never.
That's the bread of life.
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 7:13:23 PM
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earthless
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I can assure you I do not lose faith in God's Word because of false teachers and false prophets. Again, I cannot rehash all that I have labored to post in the other threads on this very topic. Please feel free to read those threads I sought out for you and posted, God bless.
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 7:24:39 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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No, you don't have to rehash what you have labored to post in other threads. And I thank you greatly for posting those links. But the bottom line here is that you don't believe prophets exists today (for whatever reason you feel is valid). I am not primarily concerned with why you do not believe a truth in the Bible (everyone has a reason). My point is that you do not believe in prophets. What is there to read? I shall come to the same conclusion--earthless does not believe in prophets/prophecy. OK . . . Again, you have the right to believe anything you want. The fact remains, it is a gift of the Spirit, it is described as being for the equipping of saints, it is referenced in the NT and you don't believe it exists. Reasons do not matter. You will have to explain that to God, not me. You are very much entitled to your own beliefs as we do have a free-will.
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ORIGINAL: earthless
I can assure you I do not lose faith in God's Word because of false teachers and false prophets. Again, I cannot rehash all that I have labored to post in the other threads on this very topic. Please feel free to read those threads I sought out for you and posted, God bless.
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 7:36:58 PM
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earthless
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Dakota,
There are very strong reasons, from a biblical context, why I hold that the Office of Prophet seems to have been a temporary gift given by the Christ for the laying of the foundation of the church.
Prophets were foundational to the church (Ephesians 2:20). The prophet proclaimed a message from the Lord to the early believers. Sometimes a prophet’s message was revelatory (new revelation and truth from God) and sometimes a prophet’s message was predictive (Acts 11:28 and 21:10).
The early Christians did not have the complete Bible. Some early Christians did not have access to any of the books of the New Testament. The New Testament prophets “filled the gap” by proclaiming God’s message to the people who would not have access to it otherwise. The last book of the New Testament (Revelation) was not completed until late in the first century. So, the Lord sent prophets to proclaimed God’s Word to His people.
Are there true prophets today? If the purpose of a prophet was to reveal truth from God, why would we need prophets if we have the completed revelation from God in the Bible?
If prophets were the “foundation” of the early church, are we still building the “foundation” today? Can God give someone a message to deliver to someone else? Absolutely! Does God reveal truth to someone in a supernatural way and enable that person to deliver that message to others? Absolutely! But is this the biblical gift of prophecy? No.
Whatever the case, whenever a person claims to be speaking for God (the essence of prophecy) the key is to compare what is said with what the Bible says. If God were to speak through a person today, it would be in 100% complete agreement with what God has already said in the Bible.
God does not contradict Himself. 1 John 4:1 instructs us, “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
1 Thessalonians 5:20-21 declares, “Do not treat prophecies with contempt. Test everything. Hold on to the good.”
So, whether is it a “word from the Lord” or a supposed prophecy, our response should be the same.
Compare what is said to what the Word of God says. If it contradicts the Bible, throw it out. If it agrees with the Bible, pray for wisdom and discernment as to how to apply the message (2 Timothy 3:16-17; James 1:5).
I am sorry for derailing the thread, because I (and we) indeed have.
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 7:42:41 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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quote:
Are there true prophets today? If the purpose of a prophet was to reveal truth from God, why would we need prophets if we have the completed revelation from God in the Bible?
Agbus prophecied about a famine not some great truth about God. You could not find that fact searching scriptures about whether a famine was coming or not; you couldn't even compare it with scripture to see if it was true or not. There are some things God reveals through prophets. I am sorry you are unable to aprehend that.
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 7:43:42 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
quote:
Are there true prophets today? If the purpose of a prophet was to reveal truth from God, why would we need prophets if we have the completed revelation from God in the Bible?
Agbus prophecied about a famine not some great truth about God. You could not find that fact searching scriptures about whether a famine was coming or not; you couldn't even compare it with scripture to see if it was true or not. There are some things God reveals through prophets. I am sorry you are unable to aprehend that.
Do you believe that what a Prophet today speaks is direct Word of God? If so, do you hold it to be on the same level as Scripture?
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 7:54:11 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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quote:
Do you believe that what a Prophet today speaks is direct Word of God? If so, do you hold it to be on the same level as Scripture? After it has been tested to be true (it happens) and the prophet gives God glory and does not say, "let us run after other gods," but gives God the glory for the info . . . OF COURSE! What you don't seem to understand, is that there are real prophets who are prophesying stuff that HAPPENS. AND they give glory to God. Maybe there isn't a lot of faith around where you are . . . I cannot say, but some people are LIVING this gospel. REALLY living it, man!
I don't know about t.v. prophets. I don't make judgements--hey, I don't even watch them. But if I happen to hear someone "prophesy" I just watch to see if what someone says comes to pass, if it doesn't, then I've got my answer for that particular individual. Not for EVERYONE or EVERY prophet. If that person is a REAL prophet, what they say will not make you go against scripture. It's the same way I figure out if some pastor is teaching the truth. Use the Word of God and discernment. I NEVER make sweeping judgements like that, or eliminate a whole gift of the spirit just because I've seen a few/or a lot of bad apples. Quite frankly, I expect there will be more bad apples than good. I've seen more fake christians than real ones, but it doesn't negate the fact that there are REAL christians out there. I've seen more PC people than truthful ones, but that doesn't change the fact that there are truthful people out there. That's just the way of the world, man. I'd be a fool to judge everyone the same. Even God lets the wheat grow up with the tares. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! Learn some discernment and wisdom, and roll up your sleeves and dare to believe ALL of God's word.
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 8:01:26 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
quote:
Do you believe that what a Prophet today speaks is direct Word of God? If so, do you hold it to be on the same level as Scripture? After it has been tested to be true (it happens) and the prophet gives God glory and does not say, "let us run after other gods," but gives God the glory for the info . . . OF COURSE!
So your answer is a yes - you're saying that Scripture is not enough, not complete for what a believer today needs. That is disturbing to say the least.
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ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
What you don't seem to understand, is that there are real prophets who are prophesying stuff that HAPPENS. AND they give glory to God.
Some simple evidence of that is all many of us fellow Christians are asking for. But never is any presented, that speaks volumes.
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ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Maybe there isn't a lot of faith around where you are
Faith in what? Faith is only as valid as the object it is placed in. Many people can have faith, sincere faith, but be sincerely wrong. Many people today preach a Jesus that does not exist - the skin of the truth stuffed with a lie.
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ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
. . . I cannot say, but some people are LIVING this gospel. REALLY living it, man!
Emotions are fickle and experiences are not to be sought after. Based on Scripture, I can say I am living the Christian walk/faith, that is enough for me. For many it is not, they are continually seeking the newest signs and wonders.
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ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
I don't know about t.v. prophets. I don't make judgements
According to the Bible you should be. That is one of the pandemic problems in our Christian circles today, people who allow false teachers and false prophets to take deep root and make merchandise of the brethren.
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ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
--hey, I don't even watch them. But if I happen to hear someone "prophesy" I just watch to see if what someone says comes to pass, if it doesn't, then I've got my answer for that particular individual. Not for EVERYONE or EVERY prophet. If that person is a REAL prophet, what they say will not make you go against scripture. It's the same way I figure out if some pastor is teaching the truth. Use the Word of God and discernment. I NEVER make sweeping judgements like that, or eliminate a whole gift of the spirit just because I've seen a few/or a lot of bad apples. Quite frankly, I expect there will be more bad apples than good. I've seen more fake christians than real ones, but it doesn't negate the fact that there are REAL christians out there. I've seen more PC people than truthful ones, but that doesn't change the fact that there are truthful people out there. That's just the way of the world, man. I'd be a fool to judge everyone the same. Even God lets the wheat grow up with the tares. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! Learn some discernment and wisdom, and roll up your sleeves and dare to believe ALL of God's word.
What I am judging is that the Word of God for all of mankind is complete and closed - it is not open and waiting for RHEMA (revelation knowledge).
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/7/2008 9:47:59 PM
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SonInMe1
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Had an "evangilist" come to my old church and he said we would be a growing huge church...some prophecy. In a few years it was all split and dead.
I believe there are prophets. I just haven't met any...or they just are too afraid to prophecy
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/8/2008 2:13:53 AM
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Kath
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Earthless just gave a list of some of the many threads we've had on false prophets etc so can we please just stick to the OP in this thread?
I was recently given a word by a Prophetess, and from what I know about what the bible says about the words you receive from Prophets/Prophetesses is that it should confirm what you already know? Is that true? Has anyone ever received words like this? Was it a confirmation?
Further off topic posts will be removed and a report filed against your account. If you feel you must respond to an off topic post please do so via PM. Thank you.
Sincerely
Kath
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/8/2008 8:11:07 AM
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rlj
Posts: 1735
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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I missed Kath's big giant hammer of doom coming down since I responded before reading the second page.
< Message edited by rlj -- 5/8/2008 8:21:12 AM >
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/8/2008 8:21:39 AM
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armydude
Posts: 12952
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
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To the OP: I have been praying for your situation. I don't know the specifics, so I'm praying that God's will in this situation be made clear to you. If there's any way I can help, please let me know.
_____________________________
Virtue has more admirers than followers.
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/8/2008 9:27:35 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 2831
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I was recently given a word by a Prophetess, and from what I know about what the bible says about the words you receive from Prophets/Prophetesses is that it should confirm what you already know? Is that true? Has anyone ever received words like this? Was it a confirmation?
In my nearly 60 years of being around mainly religious people, I have been told things by various people who were sure they were right and they knew they were right because they believed they learned it directly from the L-rd. Most of them were wrong. None of them accepted that they were wrong, because they believed so much that they "knew" by G-d's knowledge, given them by G-d.
Most of this happened in my old church, from members and pastors alike. I am trying to think of a single time when they were right, but I can't recall even once. One pastor told me something about myself that was so off base that I started to laugh, thinking he was kidding, and offended him. But he stood his ground, because he was sure it was from the L-rd.
Another time, someone told me something supposedly about myself that simply was not so, and when I denied it, the response was "methinks thou protests too much." This term, I quickly learned, is used by modern foolish people in order to push their opinions without proofs, in an attempt to appear wiser then they will ever be. It is laughable.
Since leaving that church, I have had a few times (but far, far fewer than in the old church) when people have said such things, and I have been amazed at how spot-on they are, yet these don't go about thinking themselves to be "special" or "prophets." They are just ordinary people without pretense. Refreshingly without pretense.
If someone claiming to be a prophet or (love this term) prophetess came to me with a "word of knowledge" or "word from the "Lohd," I would listen, because their "word" would likely give me some quite combustible fodder to laugh about for years to come.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Anyone here a Profet/Profetess? - 5/8/2008 10:20:00 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3680
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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If anyone really understood the position of prophet and what God demands of a prophet....none would apply.
The messages I have recieved from God concern me or my actions....so far. Its possible someone could get a message from God for me or for someone other than themselves....
just be very careful.
Consider the source.
Always weigh what is said against the bible.
Pray about it.
If its obvious, like someone coming up to you and saying the Lord told me you need to diet and you weigh 500 pounds, then its probably not from God. A concerned brethern maybe.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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