Regressing? (Full Version)

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VisitorinWaiting -> Regressing? (5/6/2008 11:33:22 AM)

During my son's reading time today, the only word that came to mind was "Regression." He will be 5 in June, but has been reading since he was around 4...it was either right before or right after he turned 4 that he learned how to read. It was exciting for him, and he wanted to read everything that he could get his hands on. He did this for a long time. We moved late in February (our first full week here was actually March), in which I took a lot of time getting things at the new place in order, unpacking, and just getting a new schedule going. So, we have been back to work for about a month or more...and he just isn't reading anything. He will look at a THREE LETTER WORD, and just guess. He looks at big and says dog. He looks at will and says we. He has stopped sounding things out for some reason, and when I ask him to sound it out, he doesn't even know the sound of the letters, or at least says that he can't remember or doesn't know... What has happened to him?! He was reading so well, and now, he could care less. He was excited about it, and now, he just wants to go do something else. I know that it's nice outside, but today's lesson was right after we'd come back in...so he's getting to play... I am starting to feel like I'm just a bad teacher, and he's not going to learn. It added to that feelign when I was working with ds2, who will be 4 in July, and said "This is the letter D. What letter is this?" He looked at me with a blank stare and said, "Uh, /p/ uh /a/, uh..." Only seconds after I told him what the letter was, he couldn't tell me back. I'm not as concerned about the 3 year old because we just started, basically...so, I can understand with him... But the 4, going on 5, year old is my biggest concern. Do I start all over with him? I'm very discouraged and frustrated right now... [&:][&o][:(]



ddsisson -> RE: Regressing? (5/6/2008 11:42:05 AM)

Don't feel discouraged, maybe with the move, he did regress a little. He's not even 5 yet, so he really isn't behind. This is when they learn by exploration. Don't put the cart before the horse.



Sunnymom -> RE: Regressing? (5/6/2008 1:19:30 PM)

Here's a link that might be helpful. It is very normal for kids to regress, especially if they are not developmentally ready for formal schooling.



VisitorinWaiting -> RE: Regressing? (5/6/2008 1:40:26 PM)

Thanks for the advice. He has all of the signs to be ready for reading. He is very bright and had a great desire for learning before, but now, it seems that he doesn't anymore. He WANTS to "do school" when I say, "It's time for school," but when we actually start doing something, he starts laughing or guessing as I said before, or will start looking at the ceiling. He will start a formal curriculum in the fall...since we either have to do Kindergarten here or go in and sign a form that we don't want him to have Kindergarten, which I have heard from fellow, local homeschoolers that that is more trouble than it's worth because you get the third degree of questioning... So, I want him to be "ready" for formal curriculum, even if the schooling isn't formal. You know what I mean? I know that he is READY to read, and I know that some part of him WANTS to read... (He "sneaks" books in his bed at night, and I find them under his pillow in the morning. He tells me that he was reading it before he went to sleep last night.) I just don't know why all of what he has learned has seemed to DIE. I mean, he had trouble sounding out big this morning... A three letter word... *sigh* I just don't understand why he's wanting to guess at words and not even try to sound them out... Okay, I'm just starting to repeat my first post now... Anyway, thakns for the feedback. I am thinking about maybe letting him do some school OUTSIDE later today and tomorrow and see how he reacts to that... Maybe it's the big window near the chair that he uses that is so distracting... ??? [8D][&:][8|]



cynthia -> RE: Regressing? (5/6/2008 2:31:05 PM)

If he wants to read on his own that is one thing, but if he's being sneaky there is a problem with sneakiness. I'd put him to bed fifteen minutes earlier with a flashlight in his bed and tell him that if wants to read for a while he can. I wouldn't make him read anything at any time though. Read to him and get him involved in some fun projects, like having him work with you in the kitchen and brining up things like measurements, etc. Start a bug collection and identify the bugs. You can make a jar to put the bugs in by making plaster of paris and using acetone to set the plaster. It will kill the bugs so you can study them, identify them and save them. You can even get boxes and pins for display. Eventually the acetone will dissipate, so you just pour some more in the jar and it will re-activate. My kids loved to collect and identify bugs when they were smaller.

Dr. Beechick says that kids who do lots of science experiments and exploration do better in all subjects as they mature. If reading is a problem right now, just focus on exploration and providing a learning environment. There is a thread in here, that you'd probably have to search a bit for, about microscopes. TMeeks suggests that a low power microscope is good for young kids exploration. I am hoping to get one for my children, as I think we would all benefit from it. You can look more closely at bugs, rocks, plants, etc. and will see things that you normally cannot see without magnification.

So the best thing that you can do at this point is to focus on creating an environment that naturally leads to learning along the way.



VisitorinWaiting -> RE: Regressing? (5/6/2008 2:55:56 PM)

Thank you Cynthia for the advice. I still don't understand why he was doing so well, and now doesn't even know how to sound out a three letter word. *sigh* I can accept it if he's not ready or if it's time to just wait...but someone else cannot. His dad learned to read at an early age, but hates reading now. I didn't learn until I was 6, and now I love to read...not saying it works that way every time, but just kind of funny... DH is not happy with ds reading. He says that I am helping him too much, and when he tries to read for him with my help, dh says, "Well, we know mommy can read." So, that is part of it too... DH is going to be upset if ds isn't reading well...and reading well I thought he was doing, but now, even I can't say that he is...so no wonder what dh is goign to say...so I'm pressured from him and then from myself...feeling that I did something to make him "un-learn" what he had learned.

I haven't focused a lot on math or science, so we will start to do more of that once I get the things I need.

I am still rather discouraged though...even though maybe I shouldn't be... It's just that I know how well he WAS doing, and now, he's just not..........................



cynthia -> RE: Regressing? (5/6/2008 3:55:43 PM)

If my child had begun to read and was doing well, then suddenly regressed, I would be praying about what may have caused it and looking to see if there are other areas that he is struggling in that he wasn't struggling in before. Learning to read at four is very early, so you don't have to worry about him being behind. Regarding pressure from the school district, they cannot force you to do anything, if you have the legal ability to opt out of kindergarten. I seriously doubt they have a right to question you on it, but if they do, you can simply tell them that it goes against your parenting and educational philosophies. If they ask you what your parenting and educational philosophies are, simply tell them you don't think there is a need to discuss it and leave it at that. You have to set good boundaries. Other people are having trouble because there is a concensus that it's necessary to cave to avoid being pressured. That doesn't make sense to me. Personally if someone is trying to pressure me into something that I don't want to do, they aren't going to get what they want. I don't usually cave to pressure anymore, especially when it comes to my kids. I am responsible for them and have to answer to God and my husband, not the school district.

[sm=icon_smile_blush.gif] Stepping down from soapbox now.



VisitorinWaiting -> RE: Regressing? (5/6/2008 4:22:32 PM)

That's what I was just saying...answering to God and your husband. Hubby thinks he should be doing better... Right now, I think so too...there was some type of regression, and I will pray about it to try to figure out why. We did do something different today than we had been doing, and today was the worst yet, but he's just wanting to guess at words instead of sounding them out. Anyway, the pressure from hubby I can't really put off like I would the pressure of the school district. I am feeling a bit better as he did read some better this afternoon...and had a talk with a neighbor. She doesn't know about any of this, but told me that she thinks that the ability to homeschool is great and my children have an advantage of not being pushed in a direction they don't want to go, and we can be more relaxed...anyway, she said a lot of things that put things in a different perspective for me...so I am just gonna keep on keeping on...and I know that when it clicks, it clicks...until then, I can only do my best...and I think I'm doing that.



JuliaHop -> RE: Regressing? (5/6/2008 4:26:44 PM)

quote:

but when we actually start doing something, he starts laughing or guessing as I said before, or will start looking at the ceiling.


It sounds like he would rather be playing.

Is there a reason why you want him to read before kindergarten?

Kindergarten is normally the time when curriculum presents the phonics sounds (individual letters and blends) and then progresses into reading. I am not familiar with kindergarten programs that require you to read before you enter K5. I have had children in public kindergarten, private kindergarten, and homeschool (formal curriculum) and none of these required reading before starting. By the end of K5 most children are reading some words, but, even then are probably not reading anything other than phonetic books independently.

Children do have a tendency to pretend that they aren't capable when they are trying to get out of doing something. For example, my now adult dd (who has successfully completed a Master's degree) did not want to learn the value of coins. She was particularly stubborn when it came to dimes. If I remember correctly, I placed dime after dime on a table and she would state the name of the coin (I'd lay down the coin and she would say "dime.") After finishing this drill, knowing that she was not lacking in any cognitive abilities, I cleared the coins away and lay down another dime. She looked at me and when prompted to give the name said..."nickel?" Sigh...

I would recommend not playing before school. I always found that if you do the school first (whether it was the start of a school day or after school homework) a lot more is accomplished.



soukz8696 -> RE: Regressing? (5/6/2008 4:36:02 PM)

I have to say I would not worry about him regressing he just moved so he is wanting to explore the new area. He needs a chance to get used to everything. I know that children need about 6 months before they feel comfortable in a new house environment. My ds is 5 almost 6 and he hid for many months that he could read his answer when questioned about why cause he likes to be read to. I can't really offer advice on what to do about you dh but I can tell you that mine would respond to just telling him you think that after the move he is needing time to get settled and to spend a little one on one time with mom. Don't know if any of that will help.



VisitorinWaiting -> RE: Regressing? (5/6/2008 4:43:06 PM)

The reason I started him "early" is because he was interested in letters and wanting to read. He would pick up books and say, "I can read this." He would make up his own story, which is great. I let him do that, but seeing his interest, I wanted to strike while the iron was hot, so to speak... I started with him, and he amazed me...he picked up on things fast...so I have always just went with him...if he started to not want to do it, I would put it away...because it will only get me frustrated with him and he won't learn anything anyway...I don't give up easily, but I give up when I see that he's being stubborn and it's hopeless... It seems to be getting more and more hopeless though... I understand that the move might have something to do with it. I will keep pressing on with him... Hopefully, there will be a breakthrough...



pbaribeault -> RE: Regressing? (5/6/2008 5:05:22 PM)

I wonder if maybe at some point he shifted from a sound-it-out style of reading to a memorize-what-the-word-looks-like style of reading, without you noticing. (The two guesses you gave as examples are word-form guessing kinds of errors.) When you were moving, were you reading a limited group of the same books? Did you maybe do less reading over all?

If so, I'd say he probably gave up sounding stuff out when guessing based on word-form became easier, faster and fairly accurate... probably some time ago.

The skill of guessing is a lot easier to 'regress' in than the actual sounding it out. If he wasn't exposed to as many words as often for a time, his guessable vocabulary probably just shrunk is all.

If you want him to read by sounding out each word, that's going to be tough. Most of us don't -- We just use sounding-out as a fall-back skill for unfamiliar words, and for spelling. If you want to keep that fall-back skill sharp, a re-teaching followed by plenty of exposure to words that he will need to use it on is probably the best plan - which will also have the effect of broadening his memorized vocabulary and refining his skills in word-form recognition (rather than wild guessing) too.



VisitorinWaiting -> RE: Regressing? (5/6/2008 5:14:05 PM)

I know that most people were taught sight reading, and there are still sight words...after all, there are words that you cannot sound out because every vowel is different based on what letters it is accompanied by...and the consonants even sound different in different words...so, I know all that... We had started working on some sight words....and so now I think that he thinks that every word is sight word...so, when he comes to a word that he doesn't "know" but has only three letters that he can sound out and make sense of...like "can," he says, "cat."
"No, son, I don't see a /t/ sound in that word anywhere."
"Oh, uh, ca..."
And that's the way it goes....
Yes, I think a little re-teaching/review is in need here...and that's what I intend to do...

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!



locomom -> RE: Regressing? (5/7/2008 1:28:12 AM)

It sounds like he wants to read, but doesn't want to do school reading. We went through this for years. In school reading, my daughter hated the formalism and the questions. She didn't get the system. Mind you, in late 3rd grade, one doctor tested her and found she could read material up into high school but lost the meaning at about 9th grade. So the problem wasn't reading. We did find that she did not get how to do reading questions. She didn't process information by an organized step-wise approach (neither does her dad) and a good number of questions were emotionally over her head.

So we had to take a new approach and work to build confidence. First, we stopped getting graded reading books except for a couple of well-used old ones that had wonderful stories in them. Then we asked our own questions such as "Did you like the book? Why or why not?"; "What was your favorite part of the book? Why?" and any other more conversational questions we could think of. Generally she would get going and tell us far more than any reading program required. Most of the time this happened at the dinner table and in the car.

For confidence we did a couple of things. I made a box for words she had learned to read. We got a brand new index card box and some index cards. I put words on it and asked her for words she wanted to learn. These are essentially flash cards, but she got to keep the words she learned. The second thing I did was to make up cards with very short commands on them. The whole incentive was that she could do what the card said when she read it. The cards had very definitely pay offs. The ones I remember are, "Do not smile", "Ask Mom for a piece of candy", "Ask Mom for a dime", "Tell Mom to jump up and down", etc. I wouldn't tell her what the specific prizes were, but told her that they were definitely most likely something she wanted. There were some words she needed help with of course. We all got a real laugh out of this game.

If your son is sneaking books at night, make sure you know which ones he has and casually ask him if there's anything he likes about any of them. This takes acting on your part. If you can get any unguarded talk you'll have an idea of what he is really reading.

The other thing some kids are afraid of is that you will stop reading to them if they can read by themselves. At this point you have to bring joy back to reading and keep reading to them.



PrincessDonna -> RE: Regressing? (5/7/2008 8:56:54 AM)

Sounds like maybe time for a break. I had to take a couple breaks from all things book-related with my oldest. Each time I did that, it was a struggle for me to just let go for a little while, but when we went back to the books, he was ready to move forward. You don't have to stop working with him to take a break. Just stop calling it school and make it more fun and game oriented. And make sure YOU keep reading to him, even if you take a break from him reading for a bit.

Some kids will buck if pushed. Maybe he feels pushed right now. It's okay to learn a bunch and then plateau for a while. I'd also look at other new skills he is developing, especially gross motor skills like riding a bike. Often when kids are working on a gross motor or whole body development, the fine motor, thinking, and concentration on other things go out the window. This is normal...even infants do this.



sen10tious -> RE: Regressing? (5/7/2008 9:27:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna

Often when kids are working on a gross motor or whole body development, the fine motor, thinking, and concentration on other things go out the window. This is normal...even infants do this.


That was my gut reaction too. Is he having a physical growth spurt at this time? I have noticed many instances where either the mental is spurting or the physical is spurting, but not at the same time. He may well have had a mental spurt around the time of his 4th birthday and just could not "let out the hems" of his brain fast enough then. It sounds like something to keep an eye on but not worry about unless it progresses for several months.



VisitorinWaiting -> RE: Regressing? (5/7/2008 10:12:16 AM)

Wow...I'd never heard of this. For some odd reason, all of our children seem to be having a growth spurt at the same time right now. They eat SOOO much lately where before, it was a chore to get them to finish one meal. They are outside a lot, riding bikes, kicking a soccer ball, hitting a baseball, etc, etc, etc. So, they are definitely learning or in their case maybe re-learning or fine tuning their motor skills. So, maybe that is it. I think that for a while, I am going to go back to the alphabet flash cards that I had made for him, and just see if he still can do letter recongition and tell me the sounds individually without having to think about blending or reading or anything. Then, we will progress as this gets old fast when he does it day after day....



PrincessDonna -> RE: Regressing? (5/7/2008 10:14:32 AM)

Sounds like that's exactly what it is.[:D] Don't forget games like Scrabble Jr., Boggle Jr., etc. You could even do a letter hopscotch with chalk.



judii1 -> RE: Regressing? (5/7/2008 10:27:51 AM)

I agree with Donna. maybe it is time for a break.
You could let him go outside and explore. Maybe you could start a science notebook and let him pick leaves, flowers, and even make a rock collection. Maybe you could also label his finds and sound out the words while you are doing it.[:D]
You could get all kinds of science books from the library if you don't have a curriculum. (We did almost a whole year of 3rd grade science just by going to parks and playing in the backyard, etc.)

quote:

No, son, I don't see a /t/ sound in that word anywhere."
"Oh, uh, ca..."
And that's the way it goes....
Yes, I think a little re-teaching/review is in need here...and that's what I intend to do...

When Ds started to read, we used Rod and Staff first grade curriculum. We also a book called We Learn Letter Sounds from R and S. Some of the lesson pages had speed drills on them.
I found a sample of the books on this website. Rod and Staff books
If you look at some of the pages on the site above you will see what I'm talking about. The drills would combine sounds together in the list. They would teach lists like ba, be, bi, bo, bu. The books would also have the ending sounds like at, et, it, ot, ut.
I think Ds learned to read faster by using R and S.
Hope this helps.

ETA I have never ordered from the company whose website is listed above. I ordered directly from Rod and Staff Publishing in Crocket, KY. I don't think they have a website.



VisitorinWaiting -> RE: Regressing? (5/7/2008 5:03:03 PM)

Thanks for all of the advice again. I appreciate it, and it encourages me. Well, we ended up doing NOTHING today because I had so many errands to run, and we have church tonight, so I'm pressed for time on each side of the day. So, we did nothing, unfortuately...but I know that's okay... I just feel bad when I do nothing...no alphabet, no counting, no nothing...we did read 4 books, so I guess that was positive. Also, I have begun to notice that when we are outside, they will point out birds, and tell ME what the birds do. I didn't know that I had given them that much info to go on, and I'm sure they catch some of those things on Mr. Rogers and other "educational" shows. :) So, I feel pleased with what they know just in general... They told their dad about a woodpecker they saw yesterday, and their speech explaining it was immaculate!!!!!! Wow!



judii1 -> RE: Regressing? (5/7/2008 5:14:17 PM)

Visitor, One day. when Ds was in first or second grade, I decided to do nothing...No textbooks were opened that day. I still remember that Ds wanted to play outside. He was playing under a huge oak tree. He picked up an acorn and said" Mom, did you know that God can make a tree this big from this little thing?" Then he went on to tell me how AMAZING God is!!![:D][:D][:D]



Jenny-Fair -> RE: Regressing? (5/7/2008 10:00:01 PM)

I am posting blind, but my recommendation would be to back off. When he wanted to learn to read, that was great...but making him read to you when he doesn't want to, at this age, is probably taking the fun right out of it. Just keep books handy and read to the kids a lot. Four (and five) are far too young for formal schoolwork, IMO.



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