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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/4/2008 8:27:27 PM
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ta_mosquito
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/5/2008 10:23:50 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4088
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quote:
ORIGINAL: glimmerinthedark
I really don't know if all rock is "evil". However, I do see a big problem with allowing compromise. The "loosen up" type of attitude is dangerous. Allowing all kinds of things to slip into your life and the church, which are contrary to the word, is like feeding on rat poison. My point is, people will use any kind of excuse to attempt justifying things that are simply wrong. You never know, eventually they might claim that metal and screamo music can be Christian as well. Crazy. Oh wait, it has already happened. I guess the Bible was right when warning about people going after their own lusts instead of being led by the spirit. 
bold emphasis mine
I feel the same way about country and hip-hop
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/5/2008 12:09:41 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1202
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quote:
My point is, people will use any kind of excuse to attempt justifying things that are simply wrong. You never know, eventually they might claim that metal and screamo music can be Christian as well.
And what, in Scripture, tells that those genres cannot be glorifying to God?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/5/2008 12:41:19 PM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
My point is, people will use any kind of excuse to attempt justifying things that are simply wrong. You never know, eventually they might claim that metal and screamo music can be Christian as well.
And what, in Scripture, tells that those genres cannot be glorifying to God?
Because of the 11th commandment, with regards to church:
Thou shalt always do everything the way they have ALWAYS been done....
not to mention "The Law of Personal Preferences"...
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/5/2008 6:03:24 PM
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1love1God1way
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And the Law of G-C-D-Em Only.
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/6/2008 1:01:50 AM
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musicboss11
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glimmer, where in the Word do you see that it's contrary? Also, I'm curious as to what lust has to do with rock music?
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/6/2008 4:24:17 AM
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glimmerinthedark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saraimay75
quote:
ORIGINAL: musicboss11
glimmer, where in the Word do you see that it's contrary? Also, I'm curious as to what lust has to do with rock music?
Because songs about love ( and sometimes sex) equal lust.
"Lusts" or "evil desires", are not necessarily limited to sexual things.
_____________________________
Good works are the byproducts of salvation. Not the other way around.
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/6/2008 4:26:03 AM
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glimmerinthedark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: musicboss11
Also, I'm curious as to what lust has to do with rock music?
Lust can be translated into "evil desires". Depends on which translation of the Bible you're reading.
For example:
Galations 5:16 from the BEV- "But I say, Go on in the Spirit, and you will not come under the rule of the evil desires of the flesh."
Galations 5:16 from the KJV- "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
Also, if you carefully read my post, you would realize that I wasn't directly attacking rock music. If anything, I was attacking metal and screamo music.
< Message edited by glimmerinthedark -- 6/6/2008 4:44:15 AM >
_____________________________
Good works are the byproducts of salvation. Not the other way around.
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/6/2008 4:27:44 AM
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glimmerinthedark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
My point is, people will use any kind of excuse to attempt justifying things that are simply wrong. You never know, eventually they might claim that metal and screamo music can be Christian as well.
And what, in Scripture, tells that those genres cannot be glorifying to God?
not to mention "The Law of Personal Preferences"...
Actually, metal and screamo used to be my "preferences" before I was saved.
_____________________________
Good works are the byproducts of salvation. Not the other way around.
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/6/2008 4:44:20 AM
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glimmerinthedark
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Dear fribbles,
What are the fruits of the spirit? Can you see any fruits of the Spirit being manifest in metal and screamo music? Didn't think so. It's just satanic music that can be sugar coated with the "Christian" title. I follow God's word. However, I am also led by the Spirit. Before I was saved, I used to be a metal head. After I got saved however, something in me gnawed at my conscience until I realized that I couldn't partake with the saints and "drink of the cup of the world" at the same time. So I came to a crossroad where I had to choose what I was going to follow. Same thing with other sins.
The old "where in scripture is it stated" excuse, is just that. An excuse. There are many things that are sinful which are not specifically mentioned in the Bible. How do you think Christians came to conclusions that certain things that are not specifically named in the Bible are sins? Being led by the Holy Spirit. You can say, "well i'm led by the Spirit". I would ask, "what 'spirit' are you led by exactly?" Ever heard of Todd Bentley? He claims that he's led by the "spirit". If you go to youtube and search "todd bentley", you'll quickly realize that he is not led by the Holy Spirit. Like many other people and things out there, he merely has the title of a "Christian".
Proverbs 16:25
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
_____________________________
Good works are the byproducts of salvation. Not the other way around.
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/6/2008 11:47:56 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1202
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quote:
What are the fruits of the spirit? Can you see any fruits of the Spirit being manifest in metal and screamo music? Didn't think so. It's just satanic music that can be sugar coated with the "Christian" title.
Funny, people used to say that about Christian rock, too. And Christian rap. And pretty much every new Christian music genre out there. ...Actually, heh, some people still say that about those genres, I'm sure. Gotta love legalism.
But to answer your question - personally, I cannot, since I don't listen to those genres (unless mewithoutYou falls in screamo, but I don't think it does... But, I've never been good with classifying music). Not that I especially dislike them, but they're not really my cup of tea. Nevertheless, I see nothing in Scripture that leads me to the conclusion that a specific genre is inherently sinful. What counts is the heart of the one making the music, and if that heart is tuned to praising God, how dare any of us call them sinful for what comes out?
quote:
Before I was saved, I used to be a metal head. After I got saved however, something in me gnawed at my conscience until I realized that I couldn't partake with the saints and "drink of the cup of the world" at the same time. So I came to a crossroad where I had to choose what I was going to follow.
A similar thing happened with my Greek Prof. after he got saved, except his genre was hip-hop. Right after being saved, he completely got out of the worldly scene, because he felt convicted about it. However, as he continued to grow in his faith, he realized that some of the things he had been convicted of really weren't a big deal, and felt that he could get back into them - like listening to hip-hop music.
I think the Holy Spirit convicts different people in different ways, at different stages in their spiritual walk. Many new Christians are probably put into a "clean room," where they are convicted away from anything that might act as a conduit back into sinful practices. For you, God may have realized listening to metal and screamo would have led you back into genuinely sinful practices, so He convicted you not to listen to it. That may change as time goes on, or it may not. That conviction is there for your protection, so please, continue to follow it, but realize not everyone will have the same conviction.
quote:
The old "where in scripture is it stated" excuse, is just that. An excuse.
Actually... I don't think it is. I think it's a way of showing that it's not a universal matter for believers.
quote:
There are many things that are sinful which are not specifically mentioned in the Bible. How do you think Christians came to conclusions that certain things that are not specifically named in the Bible are sins? Being led by the Holy Spirit.
Using your argument, I could say that I have been led by the Holy Spirit to say that no Christian should ever drive a car, because it pollutes the environment and takes away funds that could be used for God's work. Instead, we should follow Christ's example and walk everywhere.
Of course, there's nothing in Scripture against cars, but that doesn't seem to be a problem, since it's all about what the Holy Spirit tells us, right?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/6/2008 12:48:44 PM
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iamjc-s
Posts: 349
Joined: 8/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: glimmerinthedark
According to John Todd a former Illuminati/Occultist who became Christian, rock is evil. Even Christian Rock.
What do you guys think?
I've heard another person say this too, but I disagree.
For one thing it mentions in the Bible using cymbals & "other stringed instruments" as tools for praising God.
Can you imagine using cymbals in a song that had no beat?
I think for ANY song (Christian or not), the message of the song is more important than how rocky it is.
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/6/2008 7:46:46 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3520
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From: my mom by God
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Some music makes me very uncomfortable. The lyrics of much of hip hop just are...not christian to me. Ephesians 4:9 and 5:4.
I guess the only beat that rubs me the wrong way is...polka? Maybe reggea...or hoever ya spell that. Music is music, like anything else its what you do with it. If I blame music for my sins then I am just as irresponsible as someone blaming movies for commiting murder.
I listen to contemporary christian music because I like it and it lifts me up.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/6/2008 9:41:55 PM
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glimmerinthedark
Posts: 82
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
What counts is the heart of the one making the music, and if that heart is tuned to praising God, how dare any of us call them sinful for what comes out?
Ok slow down. Before you go on trying to justify metal and screamo (since I used to listen to these), re-read what I said before.
"What are the fruits of the spirit? Can you see any fruits of the Spirit being manifest in metal and screamo music? Didn't think so."
I can back this up with my own experience. All metal ever did for me was help me grow in my hatred, pride, rebellion, violence, loving of evil things, ect. Everytime I would listen to a metal song (be it "Christian" or not) I would notice my hostility, anger, pride, and all of that start to manifest in a stronger form. Last I read, these are NOT fruits of the spirit. You can tell that metal is satanic simply by looking at the way they act, and yell and, all of that. Jesus said that we would know them by their fruits. Well the fruits of a metal-screamo-head certainly are NOT the fruits of the spirit. Satan comes in the form of an angel of light. Yet he's the father of lies. He can "sugar coat" himself, his works, his people, ect. I've noticed that Christianity these days has fallen subject to compromise and fitting in with the world. I was led by the Spirit out of a sin. I was not sanctified in that area to just go back to it. If I am led out of a sin by the Spirit, then I also have a revelation and understanding of the dirtyness of it, that I couldn't see when I was in the sin. I'll use the anology Paul Washer gave. A man can not eat out of the pig's food bucket. Even if he does it, he vomits it back out. Same thing with a Christian that is with the world. If he/she truly is saved, and they go back to eat out of the "slop", they will be chastised by God. They will realize it is wrong and vomit it back out.
< Message edited by glimmerinthedark -- 6/7/2008 2:31:49 AM >
_____________________________
Good works are the byproducts of salvation. Not the other way around.
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/6/2008 10:04:07 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1202
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
I can back this up with my own experience. All metal ever did for me was help me grow in my hatred, pride, rebellion, violence, loving of evil things, ect. Everytime I would listen to a metal song (be it "Christian" or not) I would notice my hostility, anger, pride, and all of that start to manifest in a stronger form.
Your experience is not enough!
Let me clarify - it is enough to say that you, personally, should not listen to these forms of music at this stage in your walk with the Lord. That is evident enough.
However, just because God has convicted you in this way does not mean that He has decreed metal and screamo universally evil. I don't listen to much metal, but I have some friends who do, and they certainly find it edifying. One of them listens to it at work, and it helps them focus and get their job done more efficiently, not to mention more enjoyably for them. So, I'm not saying your convictions are false, but I am saying that they are not universal.
quote:
You can tell that metal is satanic simply by looking at the way they act, and yell and, all of that.
People used to say that about Elvis Presley - and I would bet money, if I were a betting man, that a similar sentiment has been made about every musical genre in the past 50 years. I've heard similar statements made against Christian rock, Christian hip-hop and Christian rap. So, needless to say, your argument hasn't convinced me yet. Yelling isn't labeled a sin, and acting differently doesn't necessitate acting wrongly.
quote:
Jesus said that we would know them by their fruits. Well the fruits of a metal-screamo-head certainly are NOT the fruits of the spirit.
You know those friends I mentioned up there? One of them is a Bible college student who can exegete the New Testament, in the Greek, leaps and bounds better than I can (and, not to brag, but I did get straight As in 2 years worth of Greek classes). His wife, another, even bigger metal fan, works for the college. Yep, their fruit sure has convinced me metal is satanic... *please note: I apologize if the sarcasm dripping from that statement caused damage to anybody keyboard. Just wash it out with water, sarcasm stains come right out*
quote:
Same thing with a Christian that is with the world. If he/she truly is saved, and they go back to eat out of the "slop", they will be chastised by God. They will realize it is wrong and vomit it back out.
I agree. Which is part of what leads me to believe that no musical genre is, in and of itself, universally wrong. I have no problem with individual Christians being genuinely convicted to not listen to certain types of music, but that personal conviction must not be elevated to the position of a universal teaching that everyone must follow.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/6/2008 10:09:49 PM
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glimmerinthedark
Posts: 82
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Fribbles, I can use your own argument against you as well. The whole "as long as the heart and intention is right" thing easily falls apart. Can I drink alchohol with the "heart" and "intention" of glorifying God? Can I smoke with the "heart" and "intention" of glorifying God? Can I look at porn with the "heart" and "intent" of glorifying the God? Don't think so.
If you say yes, then I would be able to conclude that you are indeed led by your lusts, not the Spirit.
< Message edited by glimmerinthedark -- 6/6/2008 10:24:29 PM >
_____________________________
Good works are the byproducts of salvation. Not the other way around.
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/6/2008 10:25:05 PM
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glimmerinthedark
Posts: 82
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
I can back this up with my own experience. All metal ever did for me was help me grow in my hatred, pride, rebellion, violence, loving of evil things, ect. Everytime I would listen to a metal song (be it "Christian" or not) I would notice my hostility, anger, pride, and all of that start to manifest in a stronger form.
Let me clarify - it is enough to say that you, personally, should not listen to these forms of music at this stage in your walk with the Lord. That is evident enough.
Another flawed argument. Can I go back into a sin I was led away from because I am "closer" to God, or so that grace may abound? Let's see what the Bible has to say: "God forbid!".
_____________________________
Good works are the byproducts of salvation. Not the other way around.
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/6/2008 10:43:25 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1202
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
Fribbles, I can use your own argument against you as well. The whole "as long as the heart and intention is right" thing easily falls apart. Can I drink alchohol with the "heart" and "intention" of glorifying God? Can I smoke with the "heart" and "intention" of glorifying God?
I certainly can! I see nothing in Scripture that prohibits drinking alcohol or smoking. I enjoy the occasional drink, and the occasional pipe of tobacco, to the glory of God, thanking Him for the creation He made for us to enjoy.
Obviously, either of these things can be abused to the point of sinfulness, but then, so can most anything. Very few people would say potato chips are inherently sinful, but certainly eating a bag of them each day would be considered gluttony, correct? In the same way, drinking not unto drunkenness, or smoking not unto addiction, cannot, in my understanding, be called sinful according to Scripture.
quote:
Can I look at porn with the "heart" and "intent" of glorifying the God? Don't think so.
And I would agree, because porn is tied to two explicitly sinful activities stated plainly in Scripture - sexual lust, and degrading a person made in the image of God. A Christian man cannot view porn and hope to keep Paul's (and thus, God's) command to treat their sisters with absolute purity.
I never suggested something that was explicitly sinful in Scripture could be done to God's glory. Obviously, this can never be! But, I have yet to see how metal or screamo are explicitly sinful for every Christian.
quote:
If you say yes, then I would be able to conclude that you are indeed led by your lusts, not the Spirit.
Well, you can conclude whatever you wish. However, I would say that my lusts and your lusts are not always a bad thing. The word "lust" in Scripture can certainly be bad, but it can also be a neutral desire that can be turned to good. Jesus "lusted" in Luke 22:15 (translated in the NASB as "desire"). I would say that the Spirit can use our lusts, which the devil wishes to be used for evil, and turn them into something good. For example - I, being a man, have a lust for sex. Now, the devil wants me to take that, and as you gave the example, become engrossed in pornography. But instead, I took that lust and turned it into a strong desire for marriage - a marriage that, in 9 short weeks, will be celebrated in purity, thanks to my lusts, and the Spirit's honing thereof.
quote:
Another flawed argument. Can I go back into a sin I was led away from because I am "closer" to God,
Show me the flaw.
I would say, yes, absolutely you can. If you read Romans 14, you will notice that those who Paul says have "weak" faith are not the ones who, as I do, choose to indulge in areas not explicitly forbidden in Scripture. No, it is those who feel the need to abstain! Those who indulge are said to have a strong faith! And I would argue that, the closer someone gets to God, the more they come to realize what really matters to Him, and which commands are truly both from Him and for everyone, and which convictions He has chosen to place in each of us, uniquely as individuals, for our own personal good and edification.
Now, again, especially in light of Romans 14, I am NOT suggesting you change your views on metal and screamo for you personally! But, again, because of Romans 14, I must strongly suggest that you reconsider this notion that they are sinful for every Christian, given the lack of command one way or another in Scripture on the matter!
quote:
or so that grace may abound? Let's see what the Bible has to say: "God forbid!".
1, "God forbid" is only said about the argument that we should sin that grace may abound - not the "can I go back into a sin I was led away from because I am 'closer' to God" instance.
2, show me in my post where I suggested sinning so that grace may abound.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/7/2008 2:23:18 AM
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glimmerinthedark
Posts: 82
Joined: 4/3/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Fribbles, I can use your own argument against you as well. The whole "as long as the heart and intention is right" thing easily falls apart. Can I drink alchohol with the "heart" and "intention" of glorifying God? Can I smoke with the "heart" and "intention" of glorifying God?
If you say yes, then I would be able to conclude that you are indeed led by your lusts, not the Spirit.
I certainly can!
Alright. Well then the argument is settled.
_____________________________
Good works are the byproducts of salvation. Not the other way around.
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RE: Rock n' roll? - 6/7/2008 8:39:25 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1202
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
Alright. Well then the argument is settled.
It most certainly is not. You made some pretty serious accusations against me, brother/sister (sorry, usernames aren't gender-specific, so I want to cover my bases). I would appreciate some Scripture backing them up. Show me, in Scripture, where alcohol and tabacco are sins.
And I would appreciate it if you would address my whole post, not just 3 words. You don't even touch on my comments on metal/screamo. Your disregard of my arguments based on (I believer, false) ad hominim attack is a fallacy, and I think you would do well to address my arguments on their own merits, not your imagined views of my morality.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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