RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (Full Version)

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Anisavta -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 1:34:01 AM)

quote:

quote:


12. FURTHER REVELATION

We recognize that God is continually restoring truth and light to His Church. Therefore, we place no limit on further revelation; however, each must be substantiated according to the Scriptures.


Thus began the Morman cult and the Jehovah Witness cult and Children of God and Jim Jones and David Coresh and countless others who take the Scriptures out of context and add their own revelation.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6)

Joh 8:12 Then Jesus spoke again to them, saying, I am the Light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.



earthless -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 7:52:29 AM)

And yet we have a lot of Christians saying that God is still giving "revelation knowledge (RHEMA)" today and that Scripture is not closed.



Soxfan -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 8:43:02 AM)

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ORIGINAL: earthless

And yet we have a lot of Christians saying that God is still giving "revelation knowledge (RHEMA)" today and that Scripture is not closed.


That's to justify the unbiblical belief that the offices of Apostle and Prophet need to be restored.



rlj -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 9:19:51 AM)

Is it remotely possible to have a discussion without listening to the 667th rant about cessasionism? We have threads in these places for that:

http://forums.christianity.com/m_2957112/mpage_1/key_prophet/tm.htm#2957232

http://forums.christianity.com/m_2798947/mpage_1/tm.htm

http://forums.christianity.com/m_3194593/mpage_1/tm.htm

http://forums.christianity.com/m_322388/mpage_1/tm.htm

http://forums.christianity.com/m_1645/mpage_1/tm.htm

Oh yeah and I'll add one more to the list: [8|]

http://forums.crosswalk.com/Florida_HealingOutpouring-here_we_go_again/m_3378409/mpage_7/tm.htm#3405380

Mods I have two questions: Are we even allowed to respond to this based on the fact that in this thread http://forums.crosswalk.com/Anyone_here_a_Prophet%2fProphetess%3f/m_3401368/mpage_2/tm.htm#3405341 any kind of responses to these exact same comments that exist in all of the above named threads already could get us a ToS?

Secondly I have another request: Pretty please make some kind of one stop thread for this prophetic stuff. No one in their correct sane mind can possibly keep up with it all. It isn't worth the 667 or so threads that currently discuss it. It's one thing if the thread overlaps into it like the one in the Faithwalk section but everywhere in every way possible every thread goes back to rehashing the exact same thing over and over and over...

Thanks and God bless. : )



StephK -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 9:49:38 AM)

For the record, I'm glad it wasn't stuck in the one stop threads because I for one would have never read it.



lw9 -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 10:28:31 AM)

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rlj: Pretty please make some kind of one stop thread for this prophetic stuff. No one in their correct sane mind can possibly keep up with it all.


No one is asking you to keep up with it all or participate in every thread. Pick and choose as you see fit. Voila! Problem solved. This folder exists to discuss these kinds of issues.

quote:

stephK: For the record, I'm glad it wasn't stuck in the one stop threads because I for one would have never read it.


Me too, and this isn't just a prophetic issue, rlj. It's a discussion about a ministry with many facets of false teaching and error. Each ministry and each teacher should be evaluated individually. What an awful mess it would be if we were only allowed to discuss these things in a one-stop thread with ten people trying to address ten ministries or teachers at the same time. The title of this thread has brought people by who might never have read about this in a one stop thread and made them aware. That's a good thing. The details of Todd's teachings have been made available to all so they can evaluate it for themselves. That's also a good thing.



JesKlu -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 12:06:19 PM)

I read the Original post and here are some quotes that I thought were interesting.

quote:

IT’S ALL ABOUT YOU JESUS!!!


I laugh at that.

quote:

A man with muscular dystrophy is feeling strength come into his body… he’s been standing in line for over an hour… and was dancing during the worship! He’s been in and out of a wheel chair for many years!

Someone can be helping this person stand in line, holding him up.

quote:

A woman with a tumor that has caused a hole in her throat... was scheduled for surgery but chose to come to the outpouring instead.

Oh, no, no....

I think it is so sad that so many people can fall into these scams. [:o] Really sad.

Your sister in Christ Jesus,
Jessica



wintery -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 3:35:40 PM)

Here's five minutes of Todd Bentley and Lakeland on youtube.

Things to listen for:

Bentley: “…and you felt the spirit leave you?”

Woman 1: “I didn’t feel anything, and I was, like, ‘Is this it? Is it out?’ Or what was happening?”

Bentley: “How do you know you’re healed?”

Woman 1: “I’m not sure, a hundred percent, but I believe it is….”

===========================================
Bentley: “And I called out your condition?”

Last man on video: “Yeah, you said you saw the angel of the Lord come and touch me, and uh, then you said, um, you said that he’s healed my shoulders. Then you said that you saw a ball of fire come out of…I guess, heaven, and hit me. And I felt the stuff…”

Bentley: “And then you were healed?”

Last man: “Yeah, well, yeah, the next day I got up and was a little sore, and I didn’t want to testify because I didn’t know if I was totally healed….”



themoodyexperience -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 3:56:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wintery

Here's five minutes of Todd Bentley and Lakeland on youtube.

Things to listen for:

Bentley: “…and you felt the spirit leave you?”

Woman 1: “I didn’t feel anything, and I was, like, ‘Is this it? Is it out?’ Or what was happening?”

Bentley: “How do you know you’re healed?”

Woman 1: “I’m not sure, a hundred percent, but I believe it is….”

===========================================
Bentley: “And I called out your condition?”

Last man on video: “Yeah, you said you saw the angel of the Lord come and touch me, and uh, then you said, um, you said that he’s healed my shoulders. Then you said that you saw a ball of fire come out of…I guess, heaven, and hit me. And I felt the stuff…”

Bentley: “And then you were healed?”

Last man: “Yeah, well, yeah, the next day I got up and was a little sore, and I didn’t want to testify because I didn’t know if I was totally healed….”



Gee, I don't know about you, but I don't own one Bible that says, "By His stripes, you were vaguely healed."



lw9 -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 3:58:44 PM)

Good examples, wintery. It's just more proof that 'Todd the seer' and 'Todd the visionary' is not what he so loudly proclaims himself to be. I also noted his disclaimer of "Sometimes it takes two or three days" for the healing to take effect. Really? Miraculous healings take several days and a few tries to get a 'hit'???

Balls of fire, lights, angels coming down, blah blah blah. He can make up anything he wants and no one is stopping him. No one is questioning the complete inaccuracy of his alleged 'words of knowledge'. No one is questioning his 'visions' and these conveniently invisible 'wondrous signs' that he's describing. That is what really gets me.



wintery -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 4:06:15 PM)

Todd at Cracker Barrel

Here's a candid interview. I believe he says he's 3 weeks into the "revival".

Listen at the very beginning as he says "dog tv"--I know he just said it wrong, not trying to make too much of it.

What's really interesting is his view that "every other outpouring has always been persecuted by the fathers of the past revival", and in contrast he's getting acceptance from the likes of Bob Jones, Kilpatrick, etc.--I would not crave their endorsement, myself.



rlj -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 4:15:02 PM)

quote:

For the record, I'm glad it wasn't stuck in the one stop threads because I for one would have never read it.


I used to dislike the one stop threads until I quit trying to follow ever post on them. Now I just hop in and go and bow out come back, etc.

quote:

Gee, I don't know about you, but I don't own one Bible that says, "By His stripes, you were vaguely healed."


LOL.



lw9 -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 4:24:38 PM)

quote:

wintery: What's really interesting is his view that "every other outpouring has always been persecuted by the fathers of the past revival", and in contrast he's getting acceptance from the likes of Bob Jones, Kilpatrick, etc.--I would not crave their endorsement, myself.


Doesn't surprise me in these end of days. Let them clamor over each other to endorse this mess.

For more insight into Todd Bentley, this VIDEO is another good example, and it's appalling. He imparts the 'gift' of drunkenness on a young woman [which Biblically is a curse, not a blessing], and says 'he's not done messing with her yet'. He actually starts saying: "blah blah blah how drunk can she be, how long can it last, ha ha blah blah". It's like he's doing his own personal comedy routine and he's the only one laughing. This happens around 5 minutes in. There's more of the credit grabbing 'I knew that' comments after someone volunteers information, more talk about his power, his visions, his privileged trips to heaven, etc. It's unbelievable how he focuses on himself.



wintery -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 4:38:36 PM)

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ORIGINAL: lw9

Balls of fire, lights, angels coming down, blah blah blah. He can make up anything he wants and no one is stopping him. No one is questioning the complete inaccuracy of his alleged 'words of knowledge'. No one is questioning his 'visions' and these conveniently invisible 'wondrous signs' that he's describing. That is what really gets me.


I was reading on another site today about this "revival", and the opinion being stated was basically that a line is drawn between those who have seen through the false and those who follow the false. It's a line between Christians. It's a fellowship breaker.



lw9 -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 4:57:31 PM)

quote:

wintery: I was reading on another site today about this "revival", and the opinion being stated was basically that a line is drawn between those who have seen through the false and those who follow the false. It's a line between Christians. It's a fellowship breaker.


I tend to agree since both sides are at odds with each other and there is no middle ground. I have felt like the lines are being drawn and a serious decision is being thrust upon the Church. I can't see that it's possible to sit on the fence any longer about this stuff. I would be interested in reading that article [or post] further if you're able to post a link. If not able to do that here, that's okay [or PM me].



Anisavta -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 6:19:51 PM)

If you listen to the "Cracker Barrel interview he says, "nothing can stop us...nothing can stop it."

Are any of the local pastors and congregations speaking up about this? Is anyone challenging this?
Rev Sha'ul (Paul) would have this guy thrown out on his ear big time. The letters he would write would probably burn holes in the parchment.



JesKlu -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 7:23:52 PM)

I can't believe this.

quote:

Don't be discouraged if you don't instantly receive.


This is totally a scam.

He can claim he's got the gift of "words of knowledge" but in reality what are we seeing?

Can you believe this?

quote:

I'm not done messing around with her yet


quote:

Blah,blah, bla,blah blah blah
be drunk, as drunk, God how drunk can she be! blah blah blah blah


THIS IS NOT A MAN OF GOD! This is a scam. And there are believers being dooped into this scam.

How much longer will this revival last?

Your sister in Christ Jesus,
Jessica



lw9 -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 7:55:15 PM)

quote:

Jesklu: THIS IS NOT A MAN OF GOD! This is a scam.


That video is really awful, but I'm glad it's out there because someone might see Bentley for what he is... hopefully before they pack up the car for Florida.



JesKlu -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 8:02:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lw9

quote:

Jesklu: THIS IS NOT A MAN OF GOD! This is a scam.


That video is really awful, but I'm glad it's out there because someone might see Bentley for what he is... hopefully before they pack up the car for Florida.


Agree



colliefan -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 8:39:45 PM)

quote:


THIS IS NOT A MAN OF GOD! This is a scam. And there are believers being dooped into this scam. How much longer will this revival last?


As long as the suckers keep coming.



csl7037 -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 9:07:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lw9
I tend to agree since both sides are at odds with each other and there is no middle ground. I have felt like the lines are being drawn and a serious decision is being thrust upon the Church. I can't see that it's possible to sit on the fence any longer about this stuff. I would be interested in reading that article [or post] further if you're able to post a link. If not able to do that here, that's okay [or PM me].


This is the problem I'm having with my friend. After going to Lakeland and seeing the "show", he's admitting the guy is not quite right. But he's convinced that there have been many legitimate healings and that good is coming of it and we shouldn't judge to harshly. On the other hand, I think there is just no room to tolerate this and it's not harmless.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anisavta

If you listen to the "Cracker Barrel interview he says, "nothing can stop us...nothing can stop it."

Are any of the local pastors and congregations speaking up about this? Is anyone challenging this?
Rev Sha'ul (Paul) would have this guy thrown out on his ear big time. The letters he would write would probably burn holes in the parchment.


We're about 30 minutes away. I emailed my Pastor the link to his website and just asked what he knew and thought of it all and he didn't seem to know anything about it which really surprised me. That kinda scares me too because members of his church are going over there to check it out and I think he needs to be on top of it.



colliefan -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 9:16:47 PM)

quote:

We're about 30 minutes away. I emailed my Pastor the link to his website and just asked what he knew and thought of it all and he didn't seem to know anything about it which really surprised me. That kinda scares me too because members of his church are going over there to check it out and I think he needs to be on top of it.


The pastor is the shepherd of his flock. If the craziness starts to affect his sheep, he needs to take action. I wouldn't give this shyster any additional attention than the media is no doubt providing. Otherwise, it detracts from the mission of the church.



lw9 -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 9:29:37 PM)

quote:

csl7037: On the other hand, I think there is just no room to tolerate this and it's not harmless.


I completely agree. Someone can go to a shaman and probably get some 'good' out of that, too. Where is the line? This false show is only propelling people into further deception, and any 'signs and wonders' that are occurring are only helping to reinforce Todd Bentley as prophet and teacher, so I see no good coming out of it. False prophets, no matter how good the show is or how good they seem, serve one purpose: To lead people astray.

Good for you that you e-mailed your pastor with a heads-up. Since there are some from your church going to this thing, it would be great if the pastor devoted the next meeting to apologetics and warn the flock of this very real danger.



Anisavta -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 11:48:27 PM)

I just began to watch the "drunk" video and I couldn't finish it. It made me a little sick to my stomach. He is mocking the very Spirit of G~d.
There are several tricks to the trade for "healers".
1. Call out simple names. Someone in a large crowd has that name and will respond.
2. Send out moles to "interview" the crowd before a service. Get specific names and stories so you can call them up.
3. Hire plants to share their "stories". Cancer is pretty easy and spectacular. For the most part no one can see a person's cancer unless they are far gone and yellow.
This "drunk" gal was doing too good of an acting job in my opinion with her movements. A little too pronounced.

I think since there are those of us who can see thru this guy we need to begin serious effective prayer that he would be exposed for who and what he is. G~d will not be mocked.

I'm sure glad he hasn't made it to the West Coast. We have enough strangeness here thank you very much.



howling wind -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (5/8/2008 11:52:19 PM)

I just watched the video that lw9 linked and realized this guy is worse than I already thought. Sorry, but this is not a man of God, this is a shaman. Not only that, he is the worst showman I have ever seen. Did John and Rosa ever appear? I can just see Rosa trying to drag John up to that stage and him telling her "You get me up there, and you're walking home." That John and Rosa song is one of the goofiest things I have ever heard.

And what did he want the girl to be drunk on? The Holy Spirit? I don't know, all I heard him say was just for her to be drunk.



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