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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 12:43:01 PM
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csl7037
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The problem, lw9, is that some of that sounds so good! But if you really read it, it's terrifying!
The Spurgeon quote in soxfan's post is dead on too. We've let so much of this stuff creep into our society and our children are raised with subtle (and not so subtle) demonic overtones in everything from Pokemon to Harry Potter. And mothers have absolutely no discernment because more are listening to Oprah's new age babbling than to the Holy Spirit. And people like this rise up and claim to be "of God" (and then proceed to talk about themselves exclusively for the next three hours but that's beside the point). No wonder we're confused! If we don't grow up (spirtually) and start learning to discern what is really of God and what is Satan's mockery, we're going to just keep going down this dangerous path, chasing what looks and feels good to our flesh, and missing what God actually wants to do completely.
< Message edited by csl7037 -- 5/7/2008 12:53:04 PM >
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 1:23:06 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1423
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Adam you are a brave man to come back and face the Sanhedrin at Crosswalk with what you experienced. ; ) It's good to have a report from someone who went there not looking to dig up dirt.
quote:
Who should we praise for the writing of the New Testament? Paul or Jesus? Of course you praise Jesus for what happened. Considering that the overall majority of people are praising Jesus for what is happening, at least somebody has their priorities in the right place.
Good answer. ; ) I'm happy to hear of your friend's sister to.
Much of what happened there sounds good- Christians meeting up, praising God, coming from all over. Jesus said where two or more people are gathered in my name there I am with them.
Speaking for myself though there's too much of Todd's doctrine I disagree with.
_____________________________
And the money says 'In God We Trust' but it's against the law to pray in schools... don't ask me for the answers I've only got one, that a man leaves his darkness when he follows the Son.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 1:39:33 PM
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wintery
Posts: 596
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From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Much of what happened there sounds good- Christians meeting up, praising God, coming from all over. Jesus said where two or more people are gathered in my name there I am with them.
So you're for it!
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Speaking for myself though there's too much of Todd's doctrine I disagree with.
So you're against it?
_____________________________
"There is no work better than to please God; to pour water, to wash dishes, to be a cobbler, or an apostle, all are one as touching the deed, to please God."-William Tyndale
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 3:36:58 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1419
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From: Connecticut
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Remember, those that flock to the whole "signs and wonders" movements are there for one thing....the emotional EXPERIENCE. And when that experience wears out, it's time to invent a new and more exciting sign and wonder.
At Brownsville, it was jerking, twisting, falling, yelling. That got boring so it was off to Toronto for the barking, clucking, birthing, gold dust, and "glory tunnels".
I remember about 8-9 years ago, I went to an event where Brownsville took their freak show on the road. They had a "revival" meeting in Providence, RI. What I saw there was NOT of God. It was from the pits of HELL.
Towards the end, they sent a bunch of their henchmen running up and down the aisles stiff-arming and pushing people (known in Charismania as "slain in the spirit"), while hypnotizing music was playing.
One of them came up to me and tried it. I told him that if he wants to continue to have full mobility in that arm, he will not even touch me!
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 3:52:19 PM
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Anisavta
Posts: 707
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From: Northern CA
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quote:
When I began to see in scripture how natural these experiences were, I realized that I could also have trances like Peter; that I, like the apostle Paul, could go into paradise;
2Co 12:1 Indeed, it is not profitable for me to boast. For I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2Co 12:2 I know a man in Messiah fourteen years before (whether in the body, I do not know; or outside of the body, I do not know; God knows) such a one was caught up to the third Heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I know such a man (whether in the body, or outside of the body, I do not know; God knows),
2Co 12:4 that he was caught up into Paradise and heard unspeakable words, which it is not allowed for a man to utter.
2Co 12:5 I will glory of such a one, yet I will not boast on my behalf, except in my weaknesses.
2Co 12:6 For if I desire to boast, I shall not be foolish. For I will speak the truth. But I spare, lest anyone should think of me as being beyond what he sees me, or hears of me;
2Co 12:7 and by the surpassing revelations, lest I be made haughty, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be made haughty.
quote:
Much of what happened there sounds good- Christians meeting up, praising God, coming from all over. Jesus said where two or more people are gathered in my name there I am with them.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Messiah! Or, There! Do not believe it.
Mat 24:24 For false Messiahs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders; so much so that, if it were possible, they would deceive even the elect.
_____________________________
Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!
B'rachot,
Marsha
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 3:59:32 PM
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lw9
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Amen, Anavista! God's word is truth.
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Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 4:01:53 PM
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wintery
Posts: 596
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From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
Amen, Anavista! God's word is truth.
...a rose, by any other name....
_____________________________
"There is no work better than to please God; to pour water, to wash dishes, to be a cobbler, or an apostle, all are one as touching the deed, to please God."-William Tyndale
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 4:19:07 PM
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Anisavta
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From: Northern CA
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supernatural school
Please watch this video.
Several times he makes it clear that this is not a Bible school but a school for the supernatural.
What is disturbing is it seems geared for teens.
As he speaks he really gets into it and begins what I call a "preach mode" with a serious cadance. Check it out.
_____________________________
Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!
B'rachot,
Marsha
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 4:30:02 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 96
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From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
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I have a friend who is of the same mindset as Adam. I told him about the angel Emma-o. We have previously agreed, for the sake or our friendship, that we both can't change each others' minds, so we avoid the contention that comes with discussing our various stances. However I couldn't not tell him about this, because I care about him. (yes, it is possible to 'slaughter sheep' in Christian love). He responded by saying "anything that points someone to Jesus". I dropped it so we could have a civilzed lunch, but it got me thinking. What Jesus was he referring to? The Jesus of charismania? The Jesus of seeker sensitivism? The Jesus of the social gospel or the emergents? Or the Jesus of the Bible? The Jesus that said "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
_____________________________
“You say, The LORD says, but I have not spoken. Behold, you have spoken nonsense and envisioned lies, therefore I am indeed against you, says the LORD God” Ezekiel 13:8.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 4:33:50 PM
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wintery
Posts: 596
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Anisavta
supernatural school
Please watch this video.
Several times he makes it clear that this is not a Bible school but a school for the supernatural.
What is disturbing is it seems geared for teens.
As he speaks he really gets into it and begins what I call a "preach mode" with a serious cadance. Check it out.
I watched it. With the pickup and highway behind it I thought he just might be doing a commercial for a car lot. What else would it look like, without the audio?
In "preach mode" he was becoming a "huh" preacher, "huh"-ing out the end of the last word of a sentence. When I see that I recall a friend's comment from years ago - do they talk they way at home? "Well, honey, a-huh! What's for dinner, a-huh!?"
Yeah and I noticed the school also included "inner healing"...I clicked the link for more info and it took me back to the front page where you can read Todd's "supernatural" blog, see the "supernatural" living webcast, etc.
_____________________________
"There is no work better than to please God; to pour water, to wash dishes, to be a cobbler, or an apostle, all are one as touching the deed, to please God."-William Tyndale
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 4:36:04 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1423
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quote:
So you're for it!
So you're against it?
When the voices settle down and make up their minds I'll tell you. :P Oh wait, they said acend into the third heaven to St. Gummibare's house and I'll have the answer. Seriously though....
I don't have a problem with the event itself- with the event being christians getting together and worshipping and praising God. I'm not really offended by how they choose to worship either because honestly I don't see where the bible says we are to praise and worship this exact same way through the years until Jesus comes back. I do have a problem with how it is "marketed" and with the theology of the one putting it on.
quote:
rlj confuses me... in some posts he will be against the Charismania and then in others he is for it.
LOL Earthless. ; ) I don't tend to be for or against anything as a whole. I tend to look at everything individually and go from there. Toronto was Toronto, Lakeland is Lakeland. You made a statement Earthless and I can't find it now cause you post so much but I found one that is close anyway. :P
quote:
Some will defend anything and anyone that comes in the "name of Jesus".
Some will cling to anyone who claims to be a prophet or an apostle.
And some will never, ever, say another's teachings are false.
I can't in good conscience support this because of the doctrine of the man putting it on and because I disagree with the gimic of calling these "healing revivals". If the man putting this on were of a theology that I could look at and agree with or at least support maybe I could overlook the "healing revival" in the name. When "leaders" make statements and claims that are untruthful, that are obviously off doctrinely (granted I am far more liberal then most here when it comes to the charismata) I consider it dishonest and to me it shows someone who is either immature spiritually or lacks integrity. Sadly many overlook these types of flaws (which is what Earthless was leading at in what I quoted I believe) and look at the "1000's of people" and think it must be ok and right.
It isn't though or at least it isn't to me. In truth I'm neither for it nor against it I'm just dissappointed that the statement I quoted is more often than not correct. I'm not upset because you're right Earthless but that your statement is too often right.
Is that any help?
_____________________________
And the money says 'In God We Trust' but it's against the law to pray in schools... don't ask me for the answers I've only got one, that a man leaves his darkness when he follows the Son.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 4:50:16 PM
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wintery
Posts: 596
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Today's Stephen Strader bulletin says they are moving to the Lakeland Airport for Friday and Saturday nights.
quote: "Todd says his body is on fire… electricity is flowing through his body!!!"
_____________________________
"There is no work better than to please God; to pour water, to wash dishes, to be a cobbler, or an apostle, all are one as touching the deed, to please God."-William Tyndale
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 4:54:21 PM
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wintery
Posts: 596
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Is that any help?
Yes. I didn't really think you were of the kind that would accept the "event" no matter what. I have to wonder if Todd walked out and said, "Hey, I'm a phoney" if some wouldn't go right on with the "Outpouring" despite such a confession.
_____________________________
"There is no work better than to please God; to pour water, to wash dishes, to be a cobbler, or an apostle, all are one as touching the deed, to please God."-William Tyndale
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 5:45:21 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4044
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From: where thawing pigeons reside...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
He responded by saying "anything that points someone to Jesus". I dropped it so we could have a civilzed lunch, but it got me thinking. What Jesus was he referring to? The Jesus of charismania? The Jesus of seeker sensitivism? The Jesus of the social gospel or the emergents? Or the Jesus of the Bible? The Jesus that said "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Your post here reminds me of something I shared a while back regarding one of the most important things - who do you say Jesus is?
It absolutely matters. Faith is only as valid as the subject it is placed in.
A lot of people like to use the word 'Jesus' but we must ask just who do they mean when they refer to that name.
It all boils down to what Jesus people are speaking about when they use that name.
Like Jesus Himself asked in Scripture - who do you say I (Jesus) am?
In a time where there are so many different belief systems and just right out strange teachings masquerading as other things. The important and most crucial question to ask someone who professes Jesus as Lord - is to ask them who exactly do they say Jesus is.
Is it the Mormon Jesus that is 'a' god from the planet Kolob, a created being, the blood brother of Lucifer?
Is it the Jehovah Witnesses Jesus that is the archangel Michael? A created being and not really in control of much?
Is it the New Age Jesus that is an avatar, one of many that has graced our universe?
Is it the Gnostic Jesus that was an enlightenment spirit being that didn't really have a physical body and a holder of partial wisdom?
Is it the Word of Faith Jesus that didn't atone for our sins on the cross and who could have been replaced by anyone that had revelation knowledge?
Is it the Marashi Yagesh Jesus that is a super being from the 6th dimension and reigns the fourth quadrant of the Hades Gamma cluster?
Is it the politically correct Jesus that is simply a good way of living and does not judge anyone?
Is it the Jose Luis de Miranda Jesus that had to be reincarnated by an ex-gang banger Puerto Rican man that now has his followers tattoo '666' on the necks, forearms, or foreheads?
Is it the Islamic Jesus that was a great prophet, but not God, who will one day return to kill all pigs on the earth and then help out with the coordination of the judgment seat of Allah?
I could go on for at least 20 other descriptions..
Point being - when people talk about Jesus - who do they say Jesus is?
Read the Bible. Get into the Word and get the Word into you.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 6:10:46 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1281
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Excellent posts, themoodyexperience and earthless. "Which Jesus" is such a valid and dead-on question today.
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 7:03:35 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 310
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My question, and maybe this is for another topic (not sure where else it would go, though) is on which side would you rather "err"? The side of caution/discernment or the side where the "power" and "miracles" seem to be. If someone is truly seeking to grow in the Lord, and maybe this is a personality thing, do you think we'd be better off being more cautious or going for it? I'm probably not explaining myself well. But my friend who went to Lakeland last weekend just seems so open to anything right now that it scares me. He's definitely falling into the "demon behind every bush" metality. He's working with a minister we know locally who I know is very grounded and discerning. But I also think my friend has him up on a higher pedstal than he'd ever put himself on. Maybe that's human nature. Or maybe the nature of some of us. He thinks I'm just jaded and untrusting - maybe he's right. But it doesn't or shouldn't take a raging gift of discernment to see the probles here! Just a little common sense. He thinks I should go see things for myself rather than read or research too much...!??!?!? uugh. I saw more than I ever needed to see on TV, I absolutely would've been plain creeped out to have actually been there. I probably would've just been angry.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 7:16:06 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4044
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I rather side with God's Word. Too many of things being preached there, presented as Gospel truth, being practiced there are outright unbiblical that it doesn't even make me think twice about rejecting it.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 7:17:34 PM
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StephK
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I just can't picture Jesus doing those antics. It just doesn't compute in my brain.
_____________________________
Stephanie
"If one starts with an impersonal beginning, the answer to morals eventually turns out to be the assertion that there are no morals." ~Francis Schaeffer
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 7:39:11 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1281
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
csl7037: My question, and maybe this is for another topic (not sure where else it would go, though) is on which side would you rather "err"? The side of caution/discernment or the side where the "power" and "miracles" seem to be.
Definitely on the side of discernment for several reasons, and all Biblical.
1. We are commanded to test the spirits and be discerning. So, being discerning is not an option.
2. We are told to remain in the word, keep sound doctrine, and reject false teachers. Again, that takes discernment.
3. We are warned against false signs, wonders, miracles, prophets, teachers, and christs. There's discernment again.
4. We are told the truth has already been revealed in full and to not go beyond what is written. Ok... great advice!
5. Christ calls those who look for miraculous signs a 'wicked and adulterous generation'. Ouch! From that I can easily gather that chasing after these things is not a good plan.
On the flip side, nowhere in scripture are we told to abandon ourselves to a 'spirit' and go wild. There is no Biblical evidence for the types of Charismatic experiences seen today being manifested in the Bible, such as gold teeth, glory orbs, drunk in the spirit, animal manifestations, female angels bringing messages from God, and new revelation and visitations to heaven for everyone. It's just not there. There's no other category to put these things in than 'false'.
Time and time again the Bible itself leads us into cautious discernment rather than wild experiences, so that's what I'll stick with.
quote:
He thinks I'm just jaded and untrusting - maybe he's right. But it doesn't or shouldn't take a raging gift of discernment to see the probles here! Just a little common sense.
Don't forget the Bereans were untrusting of Paul until they compared what he was saying with scripture, and they were called NOBLE for doing so!! Don't let your friend spin you around on this point. Trust God and His word, question and discern everything else.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 5/7/2008 7:50:23 PM >
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 7:50:56 PM
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Anisavta
Posts: 707
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: Northern CA
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Good post lw9!
I'm with you. If it isn't spelled out in Scripture then I will stay away from it. I don't need to meet with bunches of people so I can get "Holy Ghost Chills". If I want to bark or meow or cluck I can do that at home in the privacy of my own livingroom. I have learned to be content in all things. If I'm sick I will pray or be prayed for by my brothers and sisters in my own congregation. If I need wisdom, I will ask of G~d who gives liberally and without reproach. My Rabbi Yeshua is quite enough for me and gives me all I need.
_____________________________
Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!
B'rachot,
Marsha
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 8:07:40 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4044
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From: where thawing pigeons reside...
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A lot of the reasons why these things are allowed to take such root in some of our Christian church circles is because of much of what is being shared HERE
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 8:57:56 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 1773
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
12. FURTHER REVELATION
We recognize that God is continually restoring truth and light to His Church. Therefore, we place no limit on further revelation; however, each must be substantiated according to the Scriptures.
Why the need? Isn't the Bible suficent? Or, do they add things to validate their experiences?
_____________________________
One hundred religious persons knit into a unity by careful organization do not constitute a church any more than eleven dead men make a football team.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963
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