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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 7:32:13 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5781
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
You are playing two angles here. If a person was legitimately speaking in tongues, and in control of the experience then it would be possible for the person to break to stop, or to be distracted etc.
Where is the biblical foundation for that premise? How does a person have control over a supposed genuine manifestation of the Holy Spirit?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
To say that God would not interrupt and cause confusion does not fit this scenario. You are offering a contradiction.
It fits every single scenario - especially one where it is a supposed setting for His presence to be worshiped and proclaimed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Bentley being a false prophet/true prophet has no bearing on whether or not your question is legit.
It has everything to do with it. Would you say that a Jehovah's Witness elder is proclaiming God's truth in a setting akin to Lakeland? If your answer is no - then how can a false teacher and a false prophet be proclaiming God's truth anywhere?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 7:56:17 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1215
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
You are playing two angles here. If a person was legitimately speaking in tongues, and in control of the experience then it would be possible for the person to break to stop, or to be distracted etc.
Where is the biblical foundation for that premise? How does a person have control over a supposed genuine manifestation of the Holy Spirit?
YOU have said that self control is a fruit of the spirit and that the Holy Spirit doesn't take control of/take over a believer. Are you saying that real tongues would mean that the person has no control over his/her own tongue and cannot start/stop or pause for better or worse?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
To say that God would not interrupt and cause confusion does not fit this scenario. You are offering a contradiction.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
It fits every single scenario - especially one where it is a supposed setting for His presence to be worshiped and proclaimed.
Scripture gives people some of the responsibiblity for the order.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Bentley being a false prophet/true prophet has no bearing on whether or not your question is legit.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthlessIt has everything to do with it. Would you say that a Jehovah's Witness elder is proclaiming God's truth in a setting akin to Lakeland? If your answer is no - then how can a false teacher and a false prophet be proclaiming God's truth anywhere?
It's legitimate to question the truth/falseness of Bentley's doctrine. I haven't said otherwise.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 8:00:37 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5781
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
YOU have said that self control is a fruit of the spirit and that the Holy Spirit doesn't take control of/take over a believer. Are you saying that real tongues would mean that the person has no control over his/her own tongue and cannot start/stop or pause for better or worse?
I fear we're going to get into a tongues discussion here and we have a one stop thread for that topic. A thread in which I have posted my fair share of posts about said topic. The core point is that Todd Bentley is not speaking in real tongues when he is saying BAM! BAM! SHEEKA BAM!
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Scripture gives people some of the responsibiblity for the order.
Are you referencing 1 Corinthians 14? Where is the order and Scriptural mandate at Lakeland?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
It's legitimate to question the truth/falseness of Bentley's doctrine. I haven't said otherwise.
Thank you for the clarification.
Getting back to the point - the baptism video is downright blasphemous. He is changing the script of what baptism is and what we're told to say during it.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 8:17:58 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2610
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
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1 Cor 14:40 (ESV) 40But all things should be done decently and in order.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 8:22:46 PM
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dwtramm
Posts: 172
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Since I was the one who posted the baptism video, I went back and watched it again, plus a couple of the unedited video.
Unless I'm missing something, he did say at one point, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the bam!
Sorry, that is what I heard, I did not hear him correct it.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 10:11:53 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2206
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dwtramm
Since I was the one who posted the baptism video, I went back and watched it again, plus a couple of the unedited video.
Unless I'm missing something, he did say at one point, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the bam!
Sorry, that is what I heard, I did not hear him correct it.
That's what I heard too.
And he later said he was going to baptize in the name of "sheek-a-boom-ba."
Last I checked, that's not how you pronounce "Jesus."
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love.ben
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 10:48:01 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1215
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I listened again too, sheekaboombah was an interrupted word. It was followed by in the name of F,S HS.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 11:16:04 PM
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dwtramm
Posts: 172
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
I listened again too, sheekaboombah was an interrupted word. It was followed by in the name of F,S HS.
The sheekaboombah yes, it was an interrupted word. Not the Father, Son, and bam section. It was not an interrupted word. This is the one I was referring too.
The sheekaboombah interruption is just as bad though.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 11:17:50 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2472
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
Corne, your comments are fine, but the speaker who filled in for Todd Saturday night, Jeff somebody, specifically said that Todd had baptised in the name of bam-bam, and that he was sure they were going to get some comments from that. He even went so far as to say that he thought that one day when they got a translation of bam-bam, it was going to be "Jesus". So the idea that Todd baptised in the name of bam-bam comes from the stage at Leeland.
I missed that video - so that more than settles that!
Being curious I went and listened to July 5. The only thing said that i heard about "bam" was that some had said the word bam was not in the bible, "but who cares? people are getting saved healed delivered" approximate quote. nothing was said about the translation of the word bam or praying in the name of, that I heard. It was a long recording to endure. Anyone else up to the challenge? Or was it a part of the sermon? Somewhere else in the meeting? I listened to most of it twice.  
Here is the link to the video, it is the July 5th service. It is approximately 2 hours into the video, about 10 minutes after Jeff Garvan begins speaking, when you get to the country roll call you are almost there. Wintery's quote is almost word for word. Interestingly enough, this is the only video selection that I saw where the controls to fast forward the video were disabled (almost like they new they had something to hid on this one)
http://freshfire.ca/ffmstream/
Out of curiosity, you excused Todd Bentley's baptism by saying that he had not really intended baptize in the name of "Bam", and yet a representative of this ministry declares that is exactly what he did. Once you verify this statement in the video, will you acknowledge that Bentley is a false teacher?
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 11:24:02 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1749
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
Corne, your comments are fine, but the speaker who filled in for Todd Saturday night, Jeff somebody, specifically said that Todd had baptised in the name of bam-bam, and that he was sure they were going to get some comments from that. He even went so far as to say that he thought that one day when they got a translation of bam-bam, it was going to be "Jesus". So the idea that Todd baptised in the name of bam-bam comes from the stage at Leeland.
I missed that video - so that more than settles that!
Being curious I went and listened to July 5. The only thing said that i heard about "bam" was that some had said the word bam was not in the bible, "but who cares? people are getting saved healed delivered" approximate quote. nothing was said about the translation of the word bam or praying in the name of, that I heard. It was a long recording to endure. Anyone else up to the challenge? Or was it a part of the sermon? Somewhere else in the meeting? I listened to most of it twice.
Here is the link to the video, it is the July 5th service. It is approximately 2 hours into the video, about 10 minutes after Jeff Garvan begins speaking, when you get to the country roll call you are almost there. Wintery's quote is almost word for word. Interestingly enough, this is the only video selection that I saw where the controls to fast forward the video were disabled (almost like they new they had something to hid on this one)
http://freshfire.ca/ffmstream/
Out of curiosity, you excused Todd Bentley's baptism by saying that he had not really intended baptize in the name of "Bam", and yet a representative of this ministry declares that is exactly what he did. Once you verify this statement in the video, will you acknowledge that Bentley is a false teacher?
thanks a million, benelchi! I was watching in another window--now I just turned it off! (Praise the Lord for that!) (I try to be accurate!  ) thanks again benelchi!
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 11:36:49 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2472
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
thanks a million, benelchi! I was watching in another window--now I just turned it off! (Praise the Lord for that!) (I try to be accurate! ) thanks again benelchi!
Your welcome.
BTW - isn't that song leader the most tone deaf, off key singer you have ever heard lead worship? I wanted to turn him off so bad, but without being able to rewind, I knew I had to listen. At least the pause button still worked, so I could get a break in once in a while.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 11:45:54 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1215
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
Out of curiosity, you excused Todd Bentley's baptism by saying that he had not really intended baptize in the name of "Bam", and yet a representative of this ministry declares that is exactly what he did. Once you verify this statement in the video, will you acknowledge that Bentley is a false teacher?
I made no endorsement. Reread post 2633.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 11:46:17 PM
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peacebringer
Posts: 225
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
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okay, watched most of the other 10 minute peace with the intro... nothing there stands out with the circus stuff but watching that I began getting nauseated and my spirit is strongly distrubed and going to pray and spend time in word and ask Holy Spirit for a cleaning. Just watching the stuff exposes to deep evil.
Dear Lord, please send the cleansing power of your Holy Spirit to your Children lost in the maze and cloud of deception. Wash them clean with Your tears and blood Lord.
With the more recent conversation of Sheeka Boom ba it is worth looking at the Sanskript suggestions again...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Watchmen-Prophets-Assembly/message/21186
Sheeka I think is fire and Boomba- Holy Vessel... so he is saying Holy Vessel of Fire?
also reminder that BhamBham in Sanskrit means sodomy.
Now I need to go cleanse.
This is a bonus song lyric to a song I never heard from DA but it fits...
Out of Town
from the album "¡Alarma!"
Words and Music by Terry Taylor
©1991 Twitchen Vibes/ASCAP
If you're a dream, my lonely heart is breaking
Your shadow falls, and leaves me cold and aching
I knock on every door, no one's inside
They're out of town, this fool will always knock them down
Head in my hand, I think it's time for crying
And in the end, I'll find the time for dying
I flag down every car, but they just drive on out of town
This fool is traveling underground
All the happy endings, with lights so stunning
It knocks you to the ground, and it ends your running
Heard it whispered lately, that someone's coming
From out of town, out of town, out of town
There's knocking at my door, please go away
I'm leaving town, your company would bring me down
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 11:51:04 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1215
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
Here is the link to the video, it is the July 5th service. It is approximately 2 hours into the video, about 10 minutes after Jeff Garvan begins speaking, when you get to the country roll call you are almost there. Wintery's quote is almost word for word. Interestingly enough, this is the only video selection that I saw where the controls to fast forward the video were disabled (almost like they new they had something to hid on this one)
http://freshfire.ca/ffmstream/
For some reason I see no July 5 video anywhere. I must have seen it in the twilight zone earlier. Cue music.
BTW I am assuming no one intentionally presents inaccuracies. The human mind, emotions and expectations influence what we hear however.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 11:52:03 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2472
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
Out of curiosity, you excused Todd Bentley's baptism by saying that he had not really intended baptize in the name of "Bam", and yet a representative of this ministry declares that is exactly what he did. Once you verify this statement in the video, will you acknowledge that Bentley is a false teacher?
I made no endorsement. Reread post 2633.
If you reread my post, I didn't say that your endorsed Bentley, but only that you excused his Baptism.
I am still wondering, after his own ministry acknowledges that Bentley baptized in the name of "BAM" (Something you had denied), will you acknowledge that Bentley is a false teacher?
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/8/2008 11:59:43 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1215
Status: offline
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I am pointing to the issue of accuracy. That's my thing. I'm not "excusing" anything.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/9/2008 12:11:57 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 2472
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
I am pointing to the issue of accuracy. That's my thing. I'm not "excusing" anything.
And according to Jeff Garvan (a leader at Lakeland) those video clips were accurate i.e. Bentley really did Baptize in the name of "BAM"
So far, you have evaded answering my question. In the light of this acknowledgment from a leader at Lakeland, do you acknowledge Bentley is a FALSE teacher?
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/9/2008 12:47:31 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 147
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
Status: offline
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Todd Bently sounds like Mike Bickle at IHOP except maybe more juiced up for the experience seekers. Either way it is demons at work. This is the Great Apostacy-Falling Away I feel, maybe.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/9/2008 1:08:08 AM
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Corne
Posts: 1215
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
I am pointing to the issue of accuracy. That's my thing. I'm not "excusing" anything.
And according to Jeff Garvan (a leader at Lakeland) those video clips were accurate i.e. Bentley really did Baptize in the name of "BAM"
http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Id=1052&pid=993
The only reference to bam I heard was over 40 minutes into Garvin speaking. "Neither is the word bam in the bible but people are getting baptised and healed" it was not stated that bam might be translated into Jesus, or that anything was in the name of bam.
Of course my brain could be fried from summer heat and I missed it after 3 times. Will not make it a fourth. Anyone have a short clip?
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/9/2008 1:34:06 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 2472
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
I am pointing to the issue of accuracy. That's my thing. I'm not "excusing" anything.
And according to Jeff Garvan (a leader at Lakeland) those video clips were accurate i.e. Bentley really did Baptize in the name of "BAM"
http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Id=1052&pid=993
The only reference to bam I heard was over 40 minutes into Garvin speaking. "Neither is the word bam in the bible but people are getting baptised and healed" it was not stated that bam might be translated into Jesus, or that anything was in the name of bam.
Of course my brain could be fried from summer heat and I missed it after 3 times. Will not make it a fourth. Anyone have a short clip?
I don't know of any shorter clip, but it shouldn't be that hard to find. It is about 10 minutes after they end the worship i.e. when Garvin begins speaking. He first begins some additional prayer and worship, next he goes through a roll call of each nation represented at Lakeland that night; immediately following the role call is when he makes the statement about the baptism in the name of Bam-Bam, and the statement about it might be a tongue that means Jesus.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/9/2008 2:31:51 AM
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Corne
Posts: 1215
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peacebringer
It wasn't Garvin, it was the MC Guy.
That sounded like casual MC humor to me. Possibly a silly reference to the Flintstones.
So, back to the doctrinal stuff. And me, back to work.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/9/2008 6:02:15 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1401
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
BTW - isn't that song leader the most tone deaf, off key singer you have ever heard lead worship? I wanted to turn him off so bad, but without being able to rewind, I knew I had to listen. At least the pause button still worked, so I could get a break in once in a while.
Aren't they in a huge open-air arena? I'm as nauseated by the next at what's going on in Lakeland but I think this is what some here have referred to as unneccesary and unhelpful jabs. Whatever Todd Bentley's faults, I'm quite certain he doesn't hire tone deaf worship leaders. It may have something to do with the haphazard set up they have out there, the acoustics of the situation and quality of the sound - ya think?
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