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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/30/2008 8:23:15 PM
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gmc4Jesus
Posts: 227
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Torrance, California
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Over my years in ministry and Christian living, I have had the opportunity to visit many churches in many denominations. In every one, I have observed people who have a sincere desire to proclaim the Gospel of Christ, reach lost souls and lead them to Jesus and to teach new believers to grow to greate levels of maturity. Those who are so engaged need to be respected and encouraged, not criticized and put down.
I've observed several threads that seem to get a lot of response and attention about people whose ministries bear some degree of controversy (Schueller, Hinn, Olsteen, Hagee, Parsley, etc.). Just because God gave them a different approach to appealing to the lost doesn't mean they are something heretical or wrong. Yet, I read criticisms that would make you think that they are instruments of the devil.
The Lakeland Revival, though not something that appeals to me, personally, is something that will reach some people in genuine conversion. Some will be lost when the emotional sensationalism wears off, but some will be truly converted. A person's background (charismatic vs. non-charismatic for example) is not sufficient grounds to disqualify their ministry. We all came to God through different experiences. God judges our hearts more than our outward actions. God is also able to make all things work together for the good of those who sincerely love Him. We must be careful in trying to decide whether we think someone else is sincere or not. Only God knows for sure.
As I stated earlier, I'm not particular drawn by the emotional stuff, but I also recognize that God can and does use that way to get people started on a walk with Him.
"Those" people are simply trying to get closer to God just as much as the ones who are questioning what they do and how they are going about it.
May God give us wisdom as to the life and teachings of His Word and how we are to reach others and bring them to a more dynamic personal and intimate relationship with Jesus Christ.
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/30/2008 8:24:13 PM
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prophet
Posts: 433
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As had been promised, wonderful hearings followed. One crippled woman arose and walked, instantly healed, another who had been in bed for four years with palsy was restored to health. This woman had complete paralysis of her right side also. She was restored to perfect health. A child of Wandle Mace, who was suffering from brain fever and was given up to die by physicians, was healed and in a few hours was playing about the floor. Upstairs above the Maces lay a woman who had been ill in bed for six months, and her child with her suffering from the same disease. Her mother was at the Maces when the baby was healed, and was so amazed that she rushed upstairs and told her daughter that there was a man below who healed the sick as in days of old, by laying on of hands in the name of Jesus. Mrs. Dexter, for that was the sick woman's name, had not a moment of skepticism. She exclaimed, "Thank God, then I can be healed." Pratt was called upstairs and both Mrs. Dexter and her child were healed in the hour, and a few days later she walked two miles from her home in Redford to the East River for baptism, and walked home again, in spite of the snow and rain, "the sidewalks being shoe deep in mud and snow." Mr. and Mrs. Wandle Mace, and Mr. and Mrs. Theodore Curtis, and Mrs. Dexter's mother were also baptized that day, all witnesses of the three miracles in Redford Street.
When the missionary left New York in April, 1838, he left branches of the church not only in New York, but in Brooklyn, Jersey, Sing Sing, and parts of Long Island, and had also baptized a group at Holliston, Massachusetts.
It was at this meeting that [there was] an exhibition of power, light, and unity of spirit above any ever before witnessed among us. Tongues were spoken and interpreted; hymns were sung in tongues and the interpretation sung; prophecy and visions were exercised here for the first time to the writer. Many sang in tongues in perfect harmony at once, as though they constituted a well-practiced choir. Angels appeared and were seen by some, and a testimony of their presence given by others affirming one of them to be the recording angel, who exhibited a partially unrolled parchment as an unfinished record upon which we were assured should be recorded the act we were called upon to perform in the reorganization of the church, confirmation of the foregoing revelation of the 20th of March, given enjoining obedience to the same. The evident proofs of divine direction were so strong that doubt disappeared, while the light was so clear to all that diversity of opinion ceased, and the whole people were truly of one heart and one soul. And on the next morning at the opening of the session, the revelation of March 20 was presented to the conference, and accepted as such by unanimous voice after which the following persons were chosen as the three to select the seven to be ordained into the Quorum of Twelve Apostles: Cyrus Newkirk, Ethan Griffith, and William Cline, who selected the following seven persons, who were accepted by the conference, and ordained according to the instruction previously given: Zenas H. Gurley, senior, Jason W. Briggs, Henry H. Deam, Reuben Newkirk, John Cunningham, George White, and Daniel B. Rasey. The ordinations took place in the afternoon session [on April 8, 1853] in the following order: Henry H. Deam was first ordained by Jason W. Briggs, assisted by Zenas H. Gurley and Reuben Newkirk, then Henry H. Deam, assisted by Zenas Gurley and Reuben Newkirk, ordained Jason W. Briggs; then Jason W. Briggs, assisted by Henry H. Deam and Reuben Newkirk, ordained Zenas H. Gurley; and then Jason W. Briggs, assisted by Henry H. Deam and Zenas H. Gurley, ordained the other four of the seven chosen.11
One Wednesday night after prayer meeting Sarah Lively and Mary Taylor offered themselves for baptism. It was late when we closed our meeting, and by the time we got to the Thames (south branch), it must have been almost eleven or half past eleven o'clock at night. A number of the Saints with others went to witness the baptism, probably about twenty Saints and about ten others. Among the number of the outsiders was one who endeavored to persecute us to a great degree, and the night being dark, with very dark, heavy clouds, and also a little misty rain, it was so that we could scarcely see each other's forms. The way being rough, with little hills and valleys, the Saints occasionally fell into the water and got wet. This provoked the persecutor to make more fun than ever. By and by we reached the river, and after we got through with our opening exercises, I stepped to the water with the hands of one of the candidates in mine. The moment my foot touched the water there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing wind, and with it came a very bright and brilliant light, more bright and glorious than my eyes had ever before seen. We were all filled with the Spirit, and the Saints immediately fell upon their knees and thanked God that he had shown unto the persecutors that we were acknowledged from on high. I gave a glance around as I was walking into the water, to see the light, and also the position of the people on the bank. The light came down from heaven, and it was in a circle, and it was about large enough to take in the thirty people, and also a part of the river, just that part where I baptized. I stood about one foot inside of this bright circle, and I cast a look outside of it, and it was just as dark one foot from the outer edge of it as it was ten rods or a mile away. When I came leading the sister to the bank, I noticed that all, both Saints and outsiders were, on their knees, with the exception of the one who persecuted us the most. After the two were baptized one of the outsiders cried out, "Oh, pray for me! This is enough to convince anyone that the latter-day work is true." In time everyone who was at the baptism came into the church.
HALLELUYAH.................................
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/30/2008 8:26:45 PM
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prophet
Posts: 433
Joined: 4/19/2005
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NOT!
My Dear Brothers,
What would be your response to people who would come along and denounce the ministry in the preccedding email as some ungodly work of the Devil? Surely the 'good visual fruit' coming from the ministry of this man is evidence enough to validate the call of God upon his life and convince even the most hardened cynic? What right would the self-righteous, pharisaical holier than thou critics have in sounding an alarm and attempting to 'tear down' such a mighty work of the Holy Spirit?
However, be convinced of this, if the good visual fruit is the criteria by which we judge something to be of God or not, we would soon be moving over into gross deception, being cursed by God for accepting the ministry of this man, because the above account is a report of one of the early pioneers of the Mormon Church as recorded in 'The Story Of The Church' by Inez Smith Davis [Herald Publishing House].
Lets remind ourselves..........
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
DOGMA is not important? Think again to those who think using the Lords word as sword and a hammer is wrong!
Shalom
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/30/2008 8:29:54 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11105
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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Prophet - your quotes (uncited, which is against TOS, by the way) are about the Mormons. What does that have to do with this discussion?
_____________________________
Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/30/2008 8:32:45 PM
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prophet
Posts: 433
Joined: 4/19/2005
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GMC
quote:
"Those" people are simply trying to get closer to God just as much as the ones who are questioning what they do and how they are going about it.
May God give us wisdom as to the life and teachings of His Word and how we are to reach others and bring them to a more dynamic personal and intimate relationship with Jesus Christ.
Yes, we understand there are those who are reaching out to the Lord as the Lord reaches out to them.
However, if the churches teaches another Jesus, who are they reaching out to? Demons in masqureade?
i have a friend who attended the Alpha course- came the Holy Spirit weekend- there were no teachings. All they did was to lay hands to try to bring my friend to experience 'god'. He was not even saved!
Anyone can show that we should ask God for His Holy Spirit for an unsaved person from the scriptures?
Shalom
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/30/2008 8:34:03 PM
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prophet
Posts: 433
Joined: 4/19/2005
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Ta
Sorry
i ws trying to show that not all miracles, signs and wonders are of God.
Texts taken from this site:
http://www.centerplace.org/history/misc/soc/soc29.htm
Shalom
< Message edited by prophet -- 6/30/2008 8:50:10 PM >
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/30/2008 9:03:34 PM
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ChristopherJ
Posts: 227
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From: Canada (The True North Strong and Free!)
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Prophet - your posts 2504 & 2505 didn't make much sense, and really didn't have anything to do with the discussion at hand... perhaps you might want to delete them, or find another thread to post them in that would be relevant to the topic at hand? If you were posting that article in response to our discussion here, perhaps you might want to contribute some of your own thoughts to the discussion instead? All of us can read articles on the internet, but we would love to hear your thoughts on Lakeland and the 'revival' going on there...
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/30/2008 9:07:41 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5642
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
(Schueller, Hinn, Olsteen, Hagee, Parsley, etc.). Just because God gave them a different approach to appealing to the lost doesn't mean they are something heretical or wrong.
I implore you to please take one of the above (in the threads dedicated to their teachings and failed prophecies) and show us, with Scripture, how it is just a matter of "God giving them a different approach..." seriously.
Perhaps you're just not fully informed of the teachings, failed (false) prophecies, and claims made by those named above?
< Message edited by earthless -- 6/30/2008 9:31:00 PM >
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/30/2008 9:22:42 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2580
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
Each night, people with a wide range of serious medical conditions flock to the tents, with only a portion admitted on stage
So, what about the ones who aren't allowed on stage? I wish the Ledger would do some digging into what is the take from the offering(s) and sales each night.
Is there a disclaimer on the enterance tickets so Todd can't be sued from one of his "healings" should one get hurt?
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/30/2008 9:25:47 PM
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prophet
Posts: 433
Joined: 4/19/2005
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Chris
Those are excerpts taken from a book written about the Mormon church in the early days.
Some people here are putting evangelism before the Word. The ends justifying the means or 'fruits'.
In the early days, the Mormons had miracles happening intheir midst and they accorded these miracles to Jesus. So does that mean they are alrite? If we tested their dogma by the scriptures, we find that they are apostates even from the beginning.
So in fact, fruits do not mean they preach the Jesus of the scriptures. They are preaching another Jesus whom we cannot have a real relationship with cause that would be demon.
So yes, its to do with signs and wonders and mircales which is promoted by TB whose teachings are absolutely off the confines of scriptures.
Shalom
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/30/2008 10:01:14 PM
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ChristopherJ
Posts: 227
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Canada (The True North Strong and Free!)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Chris
Those are excerpts taken from a book written about the Mormon church in the early days.
Some people here are putting evangelism before the Word. The ends justifying the means or 'fruits'.
In the early days, the Mormons had miracles happening intheir midst and they accorded these miracles to Jesus. So does that mean they are alrite? If we tested their dogma by the scriptures, we find that they are apostates even from the beginning.
So in fact, fruits do not mean they preach the Jesus of the scriptures. They are preaching another Jesus whom we cannot have a real relationship with cause that would be demon.
So yes, its to do with signs and wonders and mircales which is promoted by TB whose teachings are absolutely off the confines of scriptures.
Shalom
Prophet,
Thanks for clarifying why you made that post. However, you seem to have an incorrect understanding of the Biblical concept of fruit that is used to define or judge a ministry. Miracles are not the stamp of divine approval, as has already been discussed, as miracles can be fake. However, spiritual fruit in the life of a believer or his/her ministry is the test of the validity of their ministry... see these Scriptures...
Matt 12:33 - "for the tree is known by his fruit"
Luke 6:44 - "For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes"
John 15:4 - "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me"
Gal. 5:22 - "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith"
Eph. 5:9 - "For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth"
If there is no fruit, it doesn't matter how dynamic or gifted or popular the speaker or minister...
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/30/2008 10:09:21 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3178
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
(Schueller, Hinn, Olsteen, Hagee, Parsley, etc.). Just because God gave them a different approach to appealing to the lost doesn't mean they are something heretical or wrong.
I implore you to please take one of the above (in the threads dedicated to their teachings and failed prophecies) and show us, with Scripture, how it is just a matter of "God giving them a different approach..." seriously.
Perhaps you're just not fully informed of the teachings, failed (false) prophecies, and claims made by those named above?
Thank you, Earthless!!!!!
ETA: I completely understood the point you were making, Prophet.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/1/2008 1:50:39 AM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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LOL! God told one prophet to marry a prostitute and then to divorce her. He told another to order someone to strike him down with a sword. He told another (Ezekiel) to work for him for 40 years in exchange for being able to stand before Him in the accounting at The Day of Judgment. He told another, Isaiah, to go naked and prophesy for 3 years regarding Egypt and Africa during the period of his called duties. The body is a temple some say. Christ said deny yourself and take up your cross and be careful to keep my Commands.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
I care very little about how you judge others in your self appointed humanistic courts. This is written. It is The Lord who Judges us, Blessed are you when people write 100 pages of hogwash concerning things that they do not understand and when they speak evil against you because The Son of Man has his Work in You.
If you speak for your glory, to gain honor for yourself; what is Jesus doing through you to give Glory and Honor to God? His Kingdom, His Choices, His Way. One God.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Greetings prophetica, ........, cyberjewels, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
You have 100 pages to address if you're going to say Todd Bentley is a true teacher of God's Word. What say you?
Scripture also tell us there will be a great apostasy in the last days, not a great revival, and Satan can do signs and wonders. The way to know which is which is from the teachings - Todd's do not pass the test of Scripture.
God will NEVER do something in someone or through someone that goes against His Word. Thus in that, Todd Bentley is not working for our Lord and Savior because his actions are in violation OF God's word.
BTW, since you dont know who Earthless is, it is very ignorant of you to try and question what God is doing in his life. As it were, in this thread, there have been multiple posts where earthless has given his testimony and shared what God is doing in his life. If you are to lazy to go back and read them, and rather instead spread false accusations, then you have no business on this thread let alone forum.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/1/2008 1:53:38 AM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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Jesus said that he would be a sign spoken against so that the hearts of many people would be revealed to others. Moses said, that he wished everyone prophesied and Paul wished that all men were Apostles except for the chains he bore. Jesus is the Word that became flesh.
I think that it is wise to regard the Works of God as Sovereign and then to add to our faith knowledge as written.
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus
Signs and Wonders instead of the Word of God?
Although signs and wonders, miracles and healings are great things (except when they are a hoax), do we sometimes get a little too caught up in these things and sometimes miss the really important stuff?
I know that the purpose behind the miracles and events at Lakeland is meant to lead people to Christ, but as I have observed in many other charismatic events, way too often, the focus is on the emotional experience and not solidly enough on Scripture. Sometimes, the only Scriptures mentioned are those that support the signs and wonders. It is not that Scripture and the Gospel are not proclaimed, but that so much emphasis is placed on the emotional aspect and the healing, that the healing of sin in one's life is lost in the events of the meetings.
Isn't our salvation based on what Jesus did on the cross whether there are any other signs and wonders to accompany it? Do signs and wonders actually add to the testimony when evidence is produced that some are hoaxes or when non-christians (even Satanists) can do similar things?
On the one hand, I pray for the good that the Lakeland event is having and don't want to come down too harshly on it and those who are seeking to use it to build Christ's Church. However, it plays to the emotionally religious much more than to those who don't even know the Gospel.
What would attract a non-believer to become a believer and get into a Bible study (that is not limited to the charismatic emphasis) and get them really grounded on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ?
< Message edited by cybrjewls -- 7/1/2008 2:00:34 AM >
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/1/2008 12:38:29 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3290
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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I've sent links to this freak show to several people
I've had one response thanking me for the heads up,
and others of "Too Late." They are hooked.
But, I still give thanks for God's mercy and grace.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/1/2008 12:52:05 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3290
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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I think this has been posted before, but it gives a good shot of
a "gold tooth." It may be my imagination, but it looks like the
work of an earthly dentist. With two wear marks where the
tooth has been used, as in chewing against the lower tooth. lol.
"Gold Tooth"
See what you think. Is there a dentist in the house?
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/1/2008 5:36:13 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 891
Joined: 1/23/2006
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all these things make me glad im not pursuing a 'signs and wonders' kind of alleged christianity. I say 'alleged" because it is NOT true Christianity). About 2 years ago, when i was looking for a church, something inside me told me not to pursue that kind of scene. I do beleive it was the Holy Spirit who will guide all believers into truth. I just think i would have been somehow wrapped up in the glitter and glam of that scene. I think God protected me from getting all wrapped up in it.
What God had me pursuing was a nice solid old fashioned bible believing, bible preaching church. Im happy!
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/1/2008 6:41:01 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3178
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prophetica
I think that it is wise to regard the Works of God as Sovereign and then to add to our faith knowledge as written.
I think it's wiser to be sure those claiming to do the Works of God are in compliance with the Word of God.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/1/2008 8:30:11 PM
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prophet
Posts: 433
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
I think it's wiser to be sure those claiming to do the Works of God are in compliance with the Word of God.
Amen!
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/2/2008 1:45:09 AM
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ChristopherJ
Posts: 227
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Canada (The True North Strong and Free!)
Status: offline
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Watchman,
In an effort to abide by the TOS (terms of service) that indicate we must keep our discussions in line with the original poster's topic, I have started a new thread to discuss your theology and website, at your request... I encourage all of the regular posters in this thread to come and add your two cents to the discussion! :)
EDIT:
NOTE: I was informed by PM by a moderator that because your website contains dream interpretation and the like, we cannot discuss it within the forum here... so, if you are interested in reading my comments on your teachings, please feel free to send me a private message or e-mail me, and I will share my concerns with you...
< Message edited by ChristopherJ -- 7/2/2008 12:30:16 PM >
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/2/2008 5:34:46 AM
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everjoyful
Posts: 125
Joined: 1/4/2007
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Wow God have mercy on us.
So far I have got to page five. I will keep reading in a second.
The church I have been attending (as often as I can ) has been talking about this florida revival and holding "ministry" meetings. Though I am told they are being cautious- so I thought I better check here as you guys always know what's going on.
Thankyou all for the links and information, I will be sure to exercise caution and stay in the word.
The saddest part is that we all of course long for that emotional encounter with God and for healing etc. Those "revival" meetings seem so enticing . That I guess is the beauty of the trap.
But God does heal us when the time is right and for some they are exhibiting faith by making the journy. I have no doubt that God heals in those places. I just hope that people know that it was God that healed them through faith and not because they were in that place with those people.
I cannot judge Todd -that's not my job but the information about his visions and angels etc and the scriptures you guys have used to expose those things certainly make me very wary of his teaching and the meetings.
The power is in the name of Jesus not in Florida or Todd or Benny etc.......
_____________________________
john 14 v27...do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 7/2/2008 8:24:13 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5642
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: offline
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everjoyful,
You can and are to judge Todd's teachings, failed prophecies, claims.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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