RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "False Teacher Forum"?
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 4:22:47 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Can you tell me, was Paul's "thorn in the flesh" healed/removed?
Don't you know that answer?
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 4:24:04 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
...you guys in 4 posts and 3 dings have so very well proven.
Interesting how you are so critical of our judgments yet you continue assigning "dings" to those that disagree. Very interesting, in a judgmental sort of way.
By the way, can you tell me, according to the Bible, was Paul's "thorn in the flesh" healed/removed?
*LOL* I assign 'dings' to those comments that are denigrating about the people spoken against. Sorry if you hate the 'ding', but I tend to hate the denigrating remarks. They are below our dignity as christians and our maturity in Christ.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 4:28:27 PM
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JimboFletch
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I don't care one way or another about your dings. You can do them often and large if they make you happy.
But Jesus and Paul both used language much stronger than I have used on this forum. I assume you assign them dings too for calling folk things like vipers and decorated tombs.
I'd truly like to know your interpretation of the biblical account of Paul's "thorn in the flesh." Was it healed or removed?
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 4:42:12 PM
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crankius
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If someone has no desire to "Discuss issues and questions about denominations, religions, or alleged false teachers", I seriously think the Church folder probably isn't the place for them.
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Ecclesiastes 7:16
"One Another" Commands
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 4:43:53 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
Don't you know the answer to Paul's thorn in the flesh? First, can you tell me exactly what the 'thorn in the flesh' was? If you can, then I will answer your question.
It's irrelevant what it was to answer my question but Kenneth Copeland said it was a physical illness. We can go with that or we go with whatever you think it is. The question is: was he healed of it (or did it go away if you think it's some thing)?
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 4:48:19 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
Thank you! I'm so glad that you have chosen to not share gossip!
"sinners found out"....Hmmmm. I wonder how many of us have sins that have not yet been 'found out'? I'm curious, did Jesus say that if we fall to sin then we are no longer saved and that we are then put into the 'false christian' category?
Do I have to say that teachers are subject to a higher scrutiny, and for good reason...they harm the gospel and people's lives. You already know that I am referring to important sins. Some things are too gross to post and are left unsaid. It's really important for me to choose who I can support in ministry and who I shouldn't. Ministries are public and should be discussed. Anyone on television or radio comes under broadcast rules and is fair game for their use of the airwaves.
It still comes down to the alarm being sounded over garbage teaching and some just don't want to hear it. I've always said what's true will stand the scrutiny.
So then, I guess we shall just have to wait for the gross hidden sins that Joyner, Bickle, Meyers, Copeland, etc etc, have done to be revealed or have yet to do but surely will some day because they are 'evil' and have seared consciences. Ok.
I believe that Jesus looks at their heart and the fruit in the lives and if that 'stands the scrutiny' that is what matters. But that's only my opinion.
They are 'fair game'? I suppose you could call looking at their teachings as fair game for all to judge for themselves. But I wouldn't consider bashing and mocking not only their characters but those brethren who listen to them, as being in the 'fair game' arena. I just don't think Jesus would agree with that. Especially when you guys never hold up the scriptures that actually list the character traits in false teachers and objectively say, "Ok, does so and so truly show this trait in their private and public lives?" You guys completely ignore scripture in that arena.
You definately should only support those whom you think you should. We all do.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 4:49:54 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
Don't you know the answer to Paul's thorn in the flesh? First, can you tell me exactly what the 'thorn in the flesh' was? If you can, then I will answer your question.
It's irrelevant what it was to answer my question but Kenneth Copeland said it was a physical illness. We can go with that or we go with whatever you think it is. The question is: was he healed of it (or did it go away if you think it's some thing)?
Sorry, if you don't know what it was, then it's all irrelevent to this thread.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 4:57:15 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
Don't you know the answer to Paul's thorn in the flesh? First, can you tell me exactly what the 'thorn in the flesh' was? If you can, then I will answer your question.
It's irrelevant what it was to answer my question but Kenneth Copeland said it was a physical illness. We can go with that or we go with whatever you think it is. The question is: was he healed of it (or did it go away if you think it's some thing)?
I have better things to do than play games so I'll get to the point.
I listened to a sermon - the entire sermon - in which Copeland preached on Paul's thorn in the flesh. Copeland identified it as a disease. (Some WOFers call it a demon, but that's their choice and not germane just now.) Using the Bible, Kenneth Copeland preached that Paul had an illness and, he, Kenneth Copeland, received special revelation that Paul was healed of the disease.
Copeland changed what the Bible states clearly on the subject. I understand WHY he needed to make it fit his doctrine but it is still error. Nobody else would come to his conclusion without first having an agenda. Yet people buy such nonsense because it's what they want to hear.
DING DING DING DING.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 4:58:07 PM
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lw9
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quote:
crankius: If someone has no desire to "Discuss issues and questions about denominations, religions, or alleged false teachers", I seriously think the Church folder probably isn't the place for them.
Yup. This isn't rocket science. There are plenty of other threads to have discussions in that don't involve false teachers, etc. Since the church folder is specifically set aside for these kinds of issues, it's not appropriate or right to tell people they can't discuss it, but that's exactly what's happening.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 5/2/2008 5:05:34 PM >
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 5:11:59 PM
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StephK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse
So, you truly believe that Meyers, Copeland, Joyner, etc etc are all 'evil' people who are not born-again and do not have a new life birthed in them? You are going to defend that belief that they are people who follow their old sinful nature and practice debauchery? They deny Jesus Christ and their consciences are seared so that they no longer have a conscience and do evil all the time?
These are only some of the character traits that a false teacher has as listed in post #47.
Interesting. I don't understand how you come to that conclusion about these precious children of God, our brethren. I hope you're correct for your sake.
But we digress. The OP is about the church forum.
If you can actually start a thread where none of you mock, name call, denigrate, attempt to humiliate the people, but rather stick to the teachings of that teacher or church, than I'd be up for it. It'll be pretty hard for you. You won't be able to say anything negative about that person's character, only speak about their teaching. I bet it can't be done.
If you are up to the challenge (you will get dinged if a character bashing remark is made that you cannot prove by having first-hand, face-to-face, knowledge of that person's private life) then please start a thread on something and we'll have a go with it.
They are deceived at the minimum and are deceiving millions mostly for the sake of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Their god isn't Jesus Christ but mammon.
The truth is there are a lot of false teachers today and they are what is shown on TV, their books are the main one's in Christian Bookstores and they make a mockery of Christ by some of their outlandish actions, claims and behaviors.
The forum is to discuss church issues today and some are simply calling them out for the hucksters they are.
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"If one starts with an impersonal beginning, the answer to morals eventually turns out to be the assertion that there are no morals." ~Francis Schaeffer
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 5:25:31 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
crankius: If someone has no desire to "Discuss issues and questions about denominations, religions, or alleged false teachers", I seriously think the Church folder probably isn't the place for them.
Yup. This isn't rocket science. There are plenty of other threads to have discussions in that don't involve false teachers, etc. Since the church folder is specifically set aside for these kinds of issues, it's not appropriate or right to tell people they can't discuss it, but that's exactly what's happening.
I missed it when it happened, but this thread was moved to "Feedback & Information" at some point...
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 5:36:00 PM
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SD456
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quote:
Their god isn't Jesus Christ but mammon.
quote:
some are simply calling them out for the hucksters they are.
2 more dings in a very short span of time. *L*. It just can't be done. It's impossible. I give up.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 5:42:34 PM
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lw9
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quote:
JimboFletch: I missed it when it happened, but this thread was moved to "Feedback & Information" at some point...
Yeah, but even though this thread is no longer in the church folder, it's still about the appropriateness of discussing false teachers in the church folder, so any defense of that - yours included - is perfectly valid here. We absolutely do have the right to discuss these things in the church folder - both Biblically and according to the rules of this forum - without someone demanding that we cease and desist because they don't like talking about it or they want to sweep everything under the rug.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 5:42:51 PM
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crankius
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
crankius: If someone has no desire to "Discuss issues and questions about denominations, religions, or alleged false teachers", I seriously think the Church folder probably isn't the place for them.
Yup. This isn't rocket science. There are plenty of other threads to have discussions in that don't involve false teachers, etc. Since the church folder is specifically set aside for these kinds of issues, it's not appropriate or right to tell people they can't discuss it, but that's exactly what's happening.
I missed it when it happened, but this thread was moved to "Feedback & Information" at some point...
Yes, it was, but various people in this thread think it is wrong to discuss false teachers and white-washed tombs and vipers and such in the church folder.
My comment was not towards you and your brilliant posts.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
"One Another" Commands
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 5:47:01 PM
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lw9
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quote:
crankius: My comment was not towards you and your brilliant posts.
Absolutely, and my comment wasn't towards you either, JimboFletch. My comment was for those who are basically demanding that we stop discussing false teachers, false doctrine, and everything else false in the church folder.
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 6:36:14 PM
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SD456
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quote:
Absolutely, and my comment wasn't towards you either, JimboFletch. My comment was for those who are basically demanding that we stop discussing false teachers, false doctrine, and everything else false in the church folder.
There has not been any statements about trying to silence people and not discuss teachings, lw. If you've read all the previous posts, no one has said that.
My point is that you guys have the inability to do such a thing without denigration, slander, mocking, judging of other's motives, and calling the teachers and those who listen to them names.
And you guys have proved it because not two posts have gone by without someone using denigrating remarks.
So any chance of conversation between the camps of the church is impossible as many do not know how to hold their tongue:
Jas 3:8,9
but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness.
But if you are able to do such a thing, then please let's discuss the issues and teachings. But without one word that denigrates, humiliates, slanders, etc.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 5/2/2008 7:00:57 PM >
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 6:55:06 PM
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1love1God1way
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I don't get you, SD.
You quote a scripture that says those of us "heresy hunters" follow a worthless religion, and then when we quote scripture to point out said heresies in people, we are just cynical.
Can we do anything right?
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 7:05:43 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
I don't get you, SD.
You quote a scripture that says those of us "heresy hunters" follow a worthless religion, and then when we quote scripture to point out said heresies in people, we are just cynical.
Can we do anything right?
Do you truly believe that's what I said in quoting that scripture, Ben? 
Those who are unable to control their tongue, unable to stop calling names, mocking and denigrating others is what that verse is speaking about. If you are not one of those, then that verse is not referring to you and I apologize if you thought it did.
If you can quote scripture in referencing teachings that you disagree with without adding character assassinations to the conversation then I believe that makes for gracious conversation where we can all respect each other and actually converse about the teachings.
When you add snide remarks and make sweeping judgments about all people who listen to the teachers you dislike then I believe that makes gracious conversation impossible.
As for your last comment, I don't remember ever thinking you cynical because you quoted a scripture. My bad if I ever gave that impression in some previous thread because I do NOT believe that people are cynical because they quote scripture.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 5/2/2008 7:18:14 PM >
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 8:06:47 PM
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1love1God1way
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Ok. I apologize if I took it the wrong way.
Carry on!
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 8:21:51 PM
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ta_mosquito
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Please do not attack other posters in this thread with name calling.
(I'm not referring to public figures as they're not members of the forum.)
If you did not get a PM about your deleted post, you were not in violation.
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< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 5/2/2008 8:31:21 PM >
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RE: Is the "Church Forum" becoming a "Fa... - 5/2/2008 9:28:11 PM
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Kath
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I missed it when it happened, but this thread was moved to "Feedback & Information" at some point...
Fritz posted the notice here
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