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Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 4/29/2008 2:06:32 PM
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imit8him
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I have a question about whether discussing the looks of an opposite sex person is wrong? I have a group of male friends, who often enjoy discussing their favorite super model's looks or the looks of women they meet. On the surface it may not seem terrible if it revolves around praising a person's natural beauty....
However, ...Let's get real, my friends seem to lack any grace with their comments and often turn the talks into a who's better looking contest, if not a who is ugly discussion. I find it offensive often times (especially if the chat goes into body parts of gets dirty).
On the other hand, I have Christian male peers at church who also do the same things when describing people they are attracted to, whether from church or elsewhere. My Christian friends don't go as far as the non-Christian ones (and are much more tasteful), but I still wonder about how far these comments can go without becoming sinful? ....What is appropriate and Godly comments about physical beauty and what is not/wrong?
-Imit 
< Message edited by imit8him -- 4/29/2008 2:14:29 PM >
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 4/29/2008 3:13:31 PM
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ChoirDJ
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The scriptures teach that we shouldn't let any unwholesome talk come out of mouths but only what is helpful for building others up. I thinks that's a great standard to shoot for in our discussions about others. How would you feel if you caught wind of a group of woman...lets say..."dissecting" your physical attributes or comparing you in a negative way to that male model? Would you feel built up or would you feel hurt?
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 4/29/2008 3:22:38 PM
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Amherst
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I agree with ChoirDJ.
Think about the reasoning behind the comments being made. Are they commenting on body parts for their sexual appeal? That is wrong, because we should not be thinking sexually about someone (lusting) if we are not married to them. We are, in essence, treating them like objects, and this is not edifying.
However, commenting in a nonsexual way, such as, "She has beautiful eyes", is much more edifying, and if you were to say that to her in person, I'm sure she would feel good about herself. However, seemingly innocent comments like this have the potential to make you have lustful feelings. If so, you should stay away from making such comments. I hope this helps somewhat.
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 4/29/2008 3:36:21 PM
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NoDumbBlonde
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Depends on the degree of the discussion.
Let's say the subject was your mom or even a small child. Think of how someone may describe their appearance. If the comments seem almost offensive then I'd say that the discussion is probably inappropriate for a Christian to say or even listen to.
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 4/29/2008 5:35:03 PM
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imit8him
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NoDumbBlonde
Depends on the degree of the discussion.
Let's say the subject was your mom or even a small child. Think of how someone may describe their appearance. If the comments seem almost offensive then I'd say that the discussion is probably inappropriate for a Christian to say or even listen to.
That's interesting. If I deem a particular conversation inappropriate, what suggestions do people have on leaving, correcting, or not engaging in the chat? ...This is easier with Christians as I can always rebuke or warn them Biblically...But with my non-Christian friends, who know I'm a Christian, they may think I'm weird or not understand the big deal (which has been the case at times). 
I do feel awful after listening to my friends talk sometimes. They are these successful type guys with great educations and make good money with a strong social status, but when they talk privately I sometimes cannot even stomach the things they say about women. It's so demeaning or filled iwth lust that I literally feel sick in my stomache after listening. These range from colleagues to social athletic type friends, not close Christian brothers.
In the past with that second group, I've usually tried to subtley bring up a different viewpoint like saying we ought to respect these women for who they are and that inner beauty is important to me. But I do think I've gone too far in allowing myself to sit through (as bad as this sounds) hours of this type of chat. It usually happens during afterwork related hangouts and I am just stuck sitting there listening to this stuff. 
I wonder what might be a good way to react in the case of my non-Christian friends, colleagues, and ppers? 
What do you all think?
-Imit
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 4/29/2008 5:38:03 PM
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imit8him
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChoirDJ
The scriptures teach that we shouldn't let any unwholesome talk come out of mouths but only what is helpful for building others up. I thinks that's a great standard to shoot for in our discussions about others. How would you feel if you caught wind of a group of woman...lets say..."dissecting" your physical attributes or comparing you in a negative way to that male model? Would you feel built up or would you feel hurt?
Absolutely! I'm so glad you gave such insightful comments! 
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 4/30/2008 9:32:03 AM
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timf
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I have Christian male peers at church who also do the same things when describing people they are attracted to,
1 Peter 3:3-6
Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
Peter describes "beauty" on two levels. The first is the commonly understood visual appearance. The second is a reflection of a heart that is surrendered to Jesus.
Men are more visually stimulated (women more auditory). Men who use conversation to describe their stimulations could be viewed as superficial and even crass or base. Men who find the second level of beauty to be more attractive than the bloom of youth that so quickly fades or the passing fancy of fashion, find a beauty that endures and transcends.
As a woman becomes more Christ-like, she demonstrates more attractive character qualities which become a radiant "beauty" that never fades. As a man grows more Christ-like, he is able to discern this beauty and is drawn to it.
Those whose eyes can only see the exterior are trapped in the world and the flesh which can never satisfy. Leave your "friends" and find a godly Christian man who can show you how to grow into the image of Christ.
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 4/30/2008 11:13:25 AM
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buckifn
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quote:
I do feel awful after listening to my friends talk sometimes.
Is it possible that is the Spirit within you that feels sickened also? I believe many things we say and do grieves the Holy Spirit and that could be what you are experiencing...Pray about it and follow what the Spirit leads...which may be choose better friends. friends that say words which edify and build other's up.
What you mentioned is very common in many workplaces which is one of many reasons I separate business and friends....I truly believe what the BIble says..what fellowship does light have with darkness?
I have nothing in common with someone who has nothing better to do with their time then hold conversations such as those you described.
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 4/30/2008 2:51:33 PM
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lairdutemps
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They cannot go very far without becoming sinful. You say so yourself.
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/1/2008 7:15:13 AM
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doer
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that type of discussion is dehumanizing:
when you separate someone's looks from their spirit, their character, their intellect, personality, faith, or anything good or bad about them, and reduce them to nothing more than a picture.
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/1/2008 9:39:03 AM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doer
that type of discussion is dehumanizing:
when you separate someone's looks from their spirit, their character, their intellect, personality, faith, or anything good or bad about them, and reduce them to nothing more than a picture.
That's not true.
Simply fact is. . . I'm attracted more to some people than others. There is nothing wrong with that, is there? Does that make me a bad person for not being attracted to some women?
I certainly don't agree that looks are the quintessential part, nor do I feel that they should be vulgarly discussed, as is being mentioned here, but preferring how one person looks over another person is not evil.
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/1/2008 10:24:01 AM
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Konstantinos
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quote:
However, ...Let's get real, my friends seem to lack any grace with their comments and often turn the talks into a who's better looking contest, if not a who is ugly discussion. I find it offensive often times
why not say it if you already think that way?
if people get hurt by someone telling them they are ugly or something then its as much their fault as it is the person saying it. its your self esteem and no matter what people tell you or do its up to you first to change it and how you'll be affected by such comments. and if its the truth that this person finds you ugly then so what? its the truth, deal with it, or prefer to live with a lie. i prefer the first
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/1/2008 10:58:36 AM
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Tinkerbell_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: doer
that type of discussion is dehumanizing:
when you separate someone's looks from their spirit, their character, their intellect, personality, faith, or anything good or bad about them, and reduce them to nothing more than a picture.
That's not true.
Simply fact is. . . I'm attracted more to some people than others. There is nothing wrong with that, is there? Does that make me a bad person for not being attracted to some women?
I certainly don't agree that looks are the quintessential part, nor do I feel that they should be vulgarly discussed, as is being mentioned here, but preferring how one person looks over another person is not evil.
Agreed. Not to mention that looks are generally the first thing we notice about each other. I'm sorry but until I get to know someone the only thing I can say about them is that they are attractive or they aren't. My best friend and I are both single and thank God we don't have the same taste in men. The man she may find attractive I don't...at all and the same goes for the men I may find attractive. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Now if I don't find someone attractive I won't bash him, but if I find someone attractive I'll be like, "Wow! Did you see that smile!?" while she's  LOL
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/1/2008 6:13:58 PM
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doer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: doer
that type of discussion is dehumanizing:
when you separate someone's looks from their spirit, their character, their intellect, personality, faith, or anything good or bad about them, and reduce them to nothing more than a picture.
That's not true.
Simply fact is. . . I'm attracted more to some people than others. There is nothing wrong with that, is there? Does that make me a bad person for not being attracted to some women?
I certainly don't agree that looks are the quintessential part, nor do I feel that they should be vulgarly discussed, as is being mentioned here, but preferring how one person looks over another person is not evil.
being attracted to a woman certainly does not make you a bad person, ... even if you are a fanny man.
if you are honest with yourself, you know when you have added things to or taken things away from a person that maybe you call a "good looking babe" that deviates from what is true.
when Jesus tells us that lusting (I know there is a distinction between attraction and lust) ((tell that to the super models )) Mat 5:28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her (long for, covet, desire) has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
simpy being attracted to someone and talking about it is one thing.
perhaps that is all the OP was really talking about.
you cannot lust after a supermodel without dehumanizing her.
And the person who tolerates a conversation like that is basically saying it is okay.
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/3/2008 4:27:52 PM
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Ganheim
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
People who focus on outer beauty are shallow,
I don't think I have much more to say. A person's exterior beauty is a part of them just as surely as a person's spiritual beauty. To try to discount it would be a lie, and reducing them just as much as ignoring the person's mind. However, like all things, recognition of one facet has to be taken in moderation and consideration with the other facets.
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/3/2008 5:34:46 PM
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Cloak
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ganheim
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
People who focus on outer beauty are shallow,
I don't think I have much more to say. A person's exterior beauty is a part of them just as surely as a person's spiritual beauty. To try to discount it would be a lie, and reducing them just as much as ignoring the person's mind. However, like all things, recognition of one facet has to be taken in moderation and consideration with the other facets.
Of course I meant here to the exclusion of inner beauty!
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And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/3/2008 6:34:26 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 1062
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
quote:
However, ...Let's get real, my friends seem to lack any grace with their comments and often turn the talks into a who's better looking contest, if not a who is ugly discussion. I find it offensive often times
why not say it if you already think that way?
if people get hurt by someone telling them they are ugly or something then its as much their fault as it is the person saying it. its your self esteem and no matter what people tell you or do its up to you first to change it and how you'll be affected by such comments. and if its the truth that this person finds you ugly then so what? its the truth, deal with it, or prefer to live with a lie. i prefer the first
I COMPLETELY DISAGREE. INSULTING SOMEONE IS ALWAYS CRUEL, and NOT in line with Ephesians 4:32..Be ye kind one to another, tender hearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you.
As to the OP, I would say what your friends are doing is 1/2 OK, and 1/2 not. It's OK to admire beauty. It is not OK to compare people. There is a verse about that. So, if they just wanna say, "Susie has a gorgeous smile," that's OK, but when they start comparing Susie's smile with Savannah's smile, that's when you start walking on shaky ground. I can't recall the reference, but the verse about it goes something like this: "When we compare ourselves with ourselves, we are without understanding." Something to that effect. And it is NEVER ok to put someone down for their looks, see Eph. 4:32 above.
I can tell Konstantinos, you probably have never been insulted for your appearance. I have, many a time, and it HURTS.
< Message edited by OneOfHisJewels -- 5/3/2008 6:45:06 PM >
_____________________________
And the Lord will continually guide you, and satisfy your desire in scorched places, and give strength to your bones; And you will be like a watered garden, And like a spring of water whose waters do not fail. Isaiah 58:11
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/3/2008 6:50:20 PM
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Prairiehiker
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YOu know what, you can't change them. But you might be able to influence them. THe next time they criticize someone, why not point out the good things about this person. Let's say they say that someone is fat, and ugly, maybe you can mention the redeeming qualities of the person like she's really friendly, or nice, or has such a good heart. Then perhaps they'll start seeing her in a different dimension. If not, then, it's really not your problem. They are shallow if they can only see one side of the person. However, as much as I hate the talks about putting a person's looks down, I know that there's people that I can't, for the life of me, find them attractive. There are just people that are not physically attractive. But that shouldn't stop us from finding out who they truly are on the inside.
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/3/2008 7:20:08 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
However, as much as I hate the talks about putting a person's looks down, I know that there's people that I can't, for the life of me, find them attractive. There are just people that are not physically attractive.
Not finding someone attractive in the privacy of your own mind is one thing. Discussing it in a cruel manner is another.
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And the Lord will continually guide you, and satisfy your desire in scorched places, and give strength to your bones; And you will be like a watered garden, And like a spring of water whose waters do not fail. Isaiah 58:11
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/3/2008 7:22:11 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
YOu know what, you can't change them. But you might be able to influence them. THe next time they criticize someone, why not point out the good things about this person. Let's say they say that someone is fat, and ugly, maybe you can mention the redeeming qualities of the person like she's really friendly, or nice, or has such a good heart
Or even find something good about their physical appearance. I honestly believe, that although not everyone is beautiful, everyone has at least one attractive feature. Sometimes it's a pretty eye color, sometimes it's pretty hair, sometimes teeth, sometimes a cute nose, sometimes pretty hands. You just gotta look.
_____________________________
And the Lord will continually guide you, and satisfy your desire in scorched places, and give strength to your bones; And you will be like a watered garden, And like a spring of water whose waters do not fail. Isaiah 58:11
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/3/2008 7:23:04 PM
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Calea37
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
why not say it if you already think that way?
if people get hurt by someone telling them they are ugly or something then its as much their fault as it is the person saying it. its your self esteem and no matter what people tell you or do its up to you first to change it and how you'll be affected by such comments. and if its the truth that this person finds you ugly then so what? its the truth, deal with it, or prefer to live with a lie. i prefer the first
That is horribly thoughtless and untrue. MOST people would be affected by someone's unkind comments (some more than others). How about if you are thinking it anyway, say NOTHING? Then no one gets hurt.
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Calea
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/3/2008 9:40:25 PM
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Konstantinos
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quote:
I can tell Konstantinos, you probably have never been insulted for your appearance. I have, many a time, and it HURTS.
well if you can tell then i guess there is nothing for me to say.
but yes i have been insulted. i was young, i cared. i grew up, i dont care anymore. i do what i like, and i only care to be viewed as handsome by my wife, noone else, and even then its only so that she can uhh enjoy the marriage more. ive been overweight in the past and it brought me down a lot. but i changed. heck right now im trying to gain weight, and im already fat again but i dont care one bit. i do what i like, and i dont care for how girls view me. and my self esteem is fine.
i understand its different for girls. guys get hurt more if they are insulted about something they cant do instead of how they look. but im over that too. no matter how you view it, its up to yourself to change your self esteem. no matter how many compliments you get and even if everyone thinks you are beautiful wont change how you view yourself. its up to you.
quote:
That is horribly thoughtless and untrue. MOST people would be affected by someone's unkind comments (some more than others). How about if you are thinking it anyway, say NOTHING? Then no one gets hurt.
so you prefer it if people arent honest with you?
quote:
I COMPLETELY DISAGREE. INSULTING SOMEONE IS ALWAYS CRUEL
so if you got a murderer in front of you, you wouldnt insult him?
the only difference is that sometimes when it comes to look its something you were given from birth, whereas murder is more of a choice.
but how you are born is part of life, you must learn to live with it or you'll keep getting upset over such things. i see it as simply as that: do you want be happy, or sad about something thats not all that important?
...you only get insulted because you value the other person's opinion, and you must understand that that opinion is based about 95% on nature. you cant change someone's nature. and just because one may find you ugly doesnt mean that everyone does. people have different tastes. and theres always social views. and theres always falling in love.
im sorry if you will find people more cruel just because something's in their nature and they are being honest with you, rather than if they are "nice" and hide things. i personally much prefer if people act themselves with me, whoever they be and i accept them as they are. in the end its the intention that matters, and its not my intention to hurt people, its just to be honest and myself.
and its not like i go around telling everyone i see on the street how pretty they are
< Message edited by Konstantinos -- 5/3/2008 9:47:24 PM >
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I'm best friends with the boogie man.
I'm a beast.
I'm a HH.
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/3/2008 11:34:05 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
and just because one may find you ugly doesnt mean that everyone does.
I think I know that. I have been called pretty and beautiful a 100 times more that I've been insulted. Not to mention, I'm constantly being told I have beautiful hair. But that wasn't really relevant to the point I was making. I also don't appreciate the fact, that just because I said I had been insulted, you automatically assumed they used the "U" word. Although they did, but I don't appreciate you making that assumption.
"So you wouldn't insult a murderer?"
You know that is the most far fetched mixed metaphor. But to answer the question, no.
If he is out of jail standing in front of me, and I know he is a murderer, I'm not going to stand there insulting him, I am going to run far away, and call the police.
If he is in jail, or in court, I may honestly say that he does deserve the death penalty, but that is not an insult, that is a statement of justice. I'm still not going to barrage him with insults. I am going to tell him I pray He comes to know Christ, so that He will not burn in hell for his sins.
Now, when I've seen pictures of murderers in the newspaper, I have said that I can see the evil or the hardness in their expression, but I still don't make fun of something like the shape of their nose.
You are greatly confusing honesty and rudeness. If someone asks someone an opinion of someone, then, ya, take your lumps, but that still gives no one a right to give an unasked for, unkind, negative opinion. Think about it this way, if Jesus were standing right there, would the person talk like that?
_____________________________
And the Lord will continually guide you, and satisfy your desire in scorched places, and give strength to your bones; And you will be like a watered garden, And like a spring of water whose waters do not fail. Isaiah 58:11
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RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? - 5/3/2008 11:38:13 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 1062
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quote:
you cant change someone's nature
We ALL have a basic sin nature, but as new creatures in Christ, our attitudes change.
Also, my self esteem is not based on other people, it is based on Christ, but that does NOT mean that I don't have feelings, and God gave feelings. Remember the verse Jesus Wept. If feelings didn't matter, God would not have said that we would be held accountable for EVERY idle word. And I am sorry, but no matter which way you slice it, an insult is an idle word. Honestly, people who go around wasting their time insulting people have too much time on their hands.
_____________________________
And the Lord will continually guide you, and satisfy your desire in scorched places, and give strength to your bones; And you will be like a watered garden, And like a spring of water whose waters do not fail. Isaiah 58:11
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