RE: How To View The Molested? (Full Version)

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Tinkerbell_ -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 11:08:31 AM)

It is something that most people don't understand and know how to deal with. The OP is 19 years old and probably never exposed to somthing like this. How would he know how to react? How would he know how to feel? The fact that he is coming here to ask Christians about it says a lot about his maturity. He knows he's in over his head, and he wants to know what he can do about it. How is that wrong? I wish the last 19 year I shared a problem like that with reacted the same way. I wish he acknowledged his indifference and attitude and saught out guidance. Would have saved us both a lot of grief and trouble.



deermousie -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 11:11:42 AM)

There are several things going on in this thread, and I'd like to address one that has been referred to several times but needs further notice. Here we have a young man 19 years old (not very old in regards to being an adult and facing some of the very hard things that we protect children from) who has been surprised by something very ugly that's suddenly in his face. His responses have been to ask for help, of compassion and a desire to learn to do things God's way. His initial post said:

quote:

"I can't even begin to imagine what it's like for her to live with those scars day after day. I am just asking you what you think I should do about my views toward her... What can I do about this?"
- Amherst

Many people have responded in grace and help; God bless you. The body of believers is being built up.

A few people have made emotional accusations and been remarkable grace-less, callous and sarcastic. I say this to your shame. God doesn't do this to you, please don't you do this to a person for whom Christ died. He's struggling to get a handle on this and do it right. Some of you can learn from his humble and gracious words to you in response to your unkind words to him.

I think some of you owe this young man an apology.



elastic -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 11:24:59 AM)

quote:

I think some of you owe this young man an apology.


i don't think anyone on here owes him an apology. i especially know Kat D's heart in this, and she was right to post what she posted. it's pretty obvious in reading some of these posts to see who has actually been a victim of molestation of some kind. i think Amherst can truly benefit by getting an opinion from someone on the victim's side. (from what could be her perspective)

if he doesn't think he can benefit from that, then he's in for a big surprise should he and his girl friend ever decide to get married.

sexual abuse touches you deeply. it's more than the physical, it is emotional as well....those emotions and memories can be stirred by the tiniest of things, a familiar smell, hearing the way a person coughs or laughs, anything can trigger it, and though it does heal with time, it's never completely out of your thoughts...the worthless feelings and the feelings of guilt. he is going to have to spend longer than an hour and 23 minutes getting over it, because she is going to spend a lifetime trying to deal with it.

i think that people who advised him to take a break from her until he had his heart in the right place were correct to do so....maybe he has completely changed his heart. good for him...but he's going to have accept her and not think about how 'damaged' she is whenever they get to a point in their relationship that it might resurface. that could be on their wedding night when she is suddenly put back into the memory of someone else touching her. there are men on this forum who have wives who were sexually abused before they met and married them, and the consequences for these men are still found today, as their wives sometimes have intimacy issues.

you can't possibly understand this and all the ramifications of if it in an hour and 23 minutes, even if you think you do.

he asked for advice, he has been given lots of it, though not all of it has been sound (mostly from those who have no clue about sexual abuse[8|] )

he'll take the advice that tickles his ear and ignore the advice that doesn't. but someday, this will probably come up again, and he is going to have to make a choice and decide if he's going to add to her guilt, or reassure her that it wasn't her fault and help her move on.



Kat_D -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 11:47:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deermousie

There are several things going on in this thread, and I'd like to address one that has been referred to several times but needs further notice. Here we have a young man 19 years old (not very old in regards to being an adult and facing some of the very hard things that we protect children from) who has been surprised by something very ugly that's suddenly in his face. His responses have been to ask for help, of compassion and a desire to learn to do things God's way. His initial post said:

quote:

"I can't even begin to imagine what it's like for her to live with those scars day after day. I am just asking you what you think I should do about my views toward her... What can I do about this?"
- Amherst

Many people have responded in grace and help; God bless you. The body of believers is being built up.

A few people have made emotional accusations and been remarkable grace-less, callous and sarcastic. I say this to your shame. God doesn't do this to you, please don't you do this to a person for whom Christ died. He's struggling to get a handle on this and do it right. Some of you can learn from his humble and gracious words to you in response to your unkind words to him.

I think some of you owe this young man an apology.


OK, I just have to say this. When a person starts a thread and asks for counsel on a specific issue, he/she needs to be open to all the counsel given...not just what he/she wants to hear. Several here have come at this from a different perspective than you have. That, in and of itself, is not wrong. Being honest and forthright does not mean God isn't in the counsel.

God's Word says that in a multitude of counselors there is wisdom. I think it's up to the poster to pray and seek the Lord regarding all the counsel He has received and God will be faithful to sort it out for him. Maybe there is something really off in his thinking that has caused his reaction to this girl over what she's been through. So, I don't think it's necessary for anyone to censure the views expressed or shame us for sharing them! Some of us have been victims of sexual abuse and have strong feelings about this and maybe the OP needed to hear the pain behind those feelings.

God can deal with us in very strong and direct ways when we have wrong thinking and views...He certainly has with me. Sometimes it's the only way He can get our attention!

There...I feel better now![:)] Back to the topic which was, "How to View the Molested," I believe.

Ooops, I posted over you, Elastic. Thanks for what you said...I guess I echoed some of it![;)]



Roberta_ -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 11:53:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elastic

quote:

I think some of you owe this young man an apology.


i don't think anyone on here owes him an apology. i especially know Kat D's heart in this, and she was right to post what she posted. it's pretty obvious in reading some of these posts to see who has actually been a victim of molestation of some kind. i think Amherst can truly benefit by getting an opinion from someone on the victim's side. (from what could be her perspective)

if he doesn't think he can benefit from that, then he's in for a big surprise should he and his girl friend ever decide to get married.

sexual abuse touches you deeply. it's more than the physical, it is emotional as well....those emotions and memories can be stirred by the tiniest of things, a familiar smell, hearing the way a person coughs or laughs, anything can trigger it, and though it does heal with time, it's never completely out of your thoughts...the worthless feelings and the feelings of guilt. he is going to have to spend longer than an hour and 23 minutes getting over it, because she is going to spend a lifetime trying to deal with it.

i think that people who advised him to take a break from her until he had his heart in the right place were correct to do so....maybe he has completely changed his heart. good for him...but he's going to have accept her and not think about how 'damaged' she is whenever they get to a point in their relationship that it might resurface. that could be on their wedding night when she is suddenly put back into the memory of someone else touching her. there are men on this forum who have wives who were sexually abused before they met and married them, and the consequences for these men are still found today, as their wives sometimes have intimacy issues.

you can't possibly understand this and all the ramifications of if it in an hour and 23 minutes, even if you think you do.

he asked for advice, he has been given lots of it, though not all of it has been sound (mostly from those who have no clue about sexual abuse[8|] )

he'll take the advice that tickles his ear and ignore the advice that doesn't. but someday, this will probably come up again, and he is going to have to make a choice and decide if he's going to add to her guilt, or reassure her that it wasn't her fault and help her move on.


I agree.



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 12:12:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

quote:

ORIGINAL: deermousie

There are several things going on in this thread, and I'd like to address one that has been referred to several times but needs further notice. Here we have a young man 19 years old (not very old in regards to being an adult and facing some of the very hard things that we protect children from) who has been surprised by something very ugly that's suddenly in his face. His responses have been to ask for help, of compassion and a desire to learn to do things God's way. His initial post said:

quote:

"I can't even begin to imagine what it's like for her to live with those scars day after day. I am just asking you what you think I should do about my views toward her... What can I do about this?"
- Amherst

Many people have responded in grace and help; God bless you. The body of believers is being built up.

A few people have made emotional accusations and been remarkable grace-less, callous and sarcastic. I say this to your shame. God doesn't do this to you, please don't you do this to a person for whom Christ died. He's struggling to get a handle on this and do it right. Some of you can learn from his humble and gracious words to you in response to your unkind words to him.

I think some of you owe this young man an apology.


OK, I just have to say this. When a person starts a thread and asks for counsel on a specific issue, he/she needs to be open to all the counsel given...not just what he/she wants to hear. Several here have come at this from a different perspective than you have. That, in and of itself, is not wrong. Being honest and forthright does not mean God isn't in the counsel.

God's Word says that in a multitude of counselors there is wisdom. I think it's up to the poster to pray and seek the Lord regarding all the counsel He has received and God will be faithful to sort it out for him. Maybe there is something really off in his thinking that has caused his reaction to this girl over what she's been through. So, I don't think it's necessary for anyone to censure the views expressed or shame us for sharing them! Some of us have been victims of sexual abuse and have strong feelings about this and maybe the OP needed to hear the pain behind those feelings.
God can deal with us in very strong and direct ways when we have wrong thinking and views...He certainly has with me. Sometimes it's the only way He can get our attention!

There...I feel better now![:)] Back to the topic which was, "How to View the Molested," I believe.

Ooops, I posted over you, Elastic. Thanks for what you said...I guess I echoed some of it![;)]

And some people who have been molested, or raped, or worse admire him for stepping out and asking for help when he was unsure with what to do with his feelings.

I do hope he clings to them and not the ones slamming him for not knowing how to handle something that hopefully most people haven't dealt with but sadly more have then not.



elastic -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 12:21:07 PM)

quote:

And some people who have been molested, or raped, or worse admire him for stepping out and asking for help when he was unsure with what to do with his feelings.

I do hope he clings to them and not the ones slamming him for not knowing how to handle something that hopefully most people haven't dealt with but sadly more have then not.


i don't think anyone here has slammed him...possibly his choice of words stung a few people...but we are past that now.

it's a good thing that he has asked for help. i think we can all agree with that. but just because you get advice that you asked for, and it isn't something you want to hear, it doesn't make it bad advice. often, it's the adivce we don't want to hear that is the advice we should take. the truth is often very difficult to hear.



Kat_D -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 12:33:11 PM)

quote:

the truth is often very difficult to hear.


Can I get a witness?!? [sm=thumbsup.gif]



DaveW -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 1:44:17 PM)

I and DW got married when I was 22 and she a few weeks shy of 21.

I found out about 2 months later she had been molested. It severly affected our "husband and wife time" and that is how it came out. She also had 4-5 years of molestation before age 12.

It took me a long time to come to grips with that in a redemptive way - at least 15 years. Even now - after 30 years of marriage there are still issues.

Bottom line - it takes a LOT of work to get past all that. Your understanding and patience (assuming you marry her) will go a long way toward making a safe environment for her to heal.



SD456 -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 3:54:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elastic

quote:

And some people who have been molested, or raped, or worse admire him for stepping out and asking for help when he was unsure with what to do with his feelings.

I do hope he clings to them and not the ones slamming him for not knowing how to handle something that hopefully most people haven't dealt with but sadly more have then not.


i don't think anyone here has slammed him...possibly his choice of words stung a few people...but we are past that now.

it's a good thing that he has asked for help. i think we can all agree with that. but just because you get advice that you asked for, and it isn't something you want to hear, it doesn't make it bad advice. often, it's the adivce we don't want to hear that is the advice we should take. the truth is often very difficult to hear.


I find it strange that you feel more justified in your words by saying that, "it's something that he doesn't want to hear," as if that means you're speaking in love and wisdom and compassion.

You and a couple others have definately slammed him and have not been at all helpful. You react in emotion and criticalness and that isn't helpful either.



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 4:04:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: elastic

quote:

I think some of you owe this young man an apology.


i don't think anyone on here owes him an apology. i especially know Kat D's heart in this, and she was right to post what she posted. it's pretty obvious in reading some of these posts to see who has actually been a victim of molestation of some kind. i think Amherst can truly benefit by getting an opinion from someone on the victim's side. (from what could be her perspective)

I'm glad you know everyone on this board well enough to back your statement up.



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 4:05:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456

quote:

ORIGINAL: elastic

quote:

And some people who have been molested, or raped, or worse admire him for stepping out and asking for help when he was unsure with what to do with his feelings.

I do hope he clings to them and not the ones slamming him for not knowing how to handle something that hopefully most people haven't dealt with but sadly more have then not.


i don't think anyone here has slammed him...possibly his choice of words stung a few people...but we are past that now.

it's a good thing that he has asked for help. i think we can all agree with that. but just because you get advice that you asked for, and it isn't something you want to hear, it doesn't make it bad advice. often, it's the adivce we don't want to hear that is the advice we should take. the truth is often very difficult to hear.


I find it strange that you feel more justified in your words by saying that, "it's something that he doesn't want to hear," as if that means you're speaking in love and wisdom and compassion.

You and a couple others have definately slammed him and have not been at all helpful. You react in emotion and criticalness and that isn't helpful either.

[sm=thumbsup.gif][sm=thumbsup.gif][sm=thumbsup.gif][sm=thumbsup.gif][sm=thumbsup.gif]

Very well said.



elastic -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 4:11:33 PM)

quote:

I'm glad you know everyone on this board well enough to back your statement up.


I didn't say i know everyone on this board, but i do in fact know Kat D. we have been long time posters here and have spoken with each other on the phone and via alternate means...so I do know Kat D.

I also said it's easy to see *some* of the posters here, i never said all.
Just to clear up any confusion. [;)]


quote:

I find it strange that you feel more justified in your words by saying that, "it's something that he doesn't want to hear," as if that means you're speaking in love and wisdom and compassion.

You and a couple others have definately slammed him and have not been at all helpful. You react in emotion and criticalness and that isn't helpful either.



does anyone here understand written english? [8|] i never said "he" doesn't want to hear...i said if it's something "you" (meaning the collective you) don't want to you hear, then you (the collective you) won't listen to it.
like it or not, that is a choice that each of us makes when we ask for advice on a public forum. i have not slammed him or at any time acted 'unlovingly'. i have been honest. feel free to block or ignore my posts as you (the collective you) are not forced to read them.



elastic -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 4:20:52 PM)

quote:

You and a couple others have definately slammed him and have not been at all helpful. You react in emotion and criticalness and that isn't helpful either.


furthermore, i have not acted in emotion and criticalness. i would like to know exactly what i said that wasn't very helpful.

seriously , i would like to know what i have said that you disagree with so much.

i have tried to come at this from her perspective...and also, it would behoove him to read post 59 by DaveW. it took him, a man of God, 15 years to get a hold on it. that's being realistic.



WesP -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 4:29:30 PM)

Bashing each other over advice and opinion is undermining the love that needs to shine through here. This particular situation can cause an extremely tenuous existence. Molestation victims harbor resentments and self-hatred their entire lifetimes in way too many cases. The girl needs people who have lots of experience in dealing with these issues. As far as Amherst is concerned, I pray that he can provide emotional support and not be captive to the thoughts he first expressed. At this time in that girl's life, she certainly does not need any physical dependence on any person. She is in need of understanding the ramifications of true physical love expressed in a marital union, but that will occur over a period of time. There are several mental difficulties that need to be overcome before she can come to terms with intimacy at that level.



Kat_D -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 4:31:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_

quote:

ORIGINAL: elastic

quote:

I think some of you owe this young man an apology.


i don't think anyone on here owes him an apology. i especially know Kat D's heart in this, and she was right to post what she posted. it's pretty obvious in reading some of these posts to see who has actually been a victim of molestation of some kind. i think Amherst can truly benefit by getting an opinion from someone on the victim's side. (from what could be her perspective)

I'm glad you know everyone on this board well enough to back your statement up.


I think Elastic mentioned me and she does know me...but this thread is not about the other posters. It's about the OP and his inability to accept someone (an innocent) who was molested (through no fault of her own).

ETA: What Wes said![sm=thumbsup.gif]



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 4:37:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_

quote:

ORIGINAL: elastic

quote:

I think some of you owe this young man an apology.


i don't think anyone on here owes him an apology. i especially know Kat D's heart in this, and she was right to post what she posted. it's pretty obvious in reading some of these posts to see who has actually been a victim of molestation of some kind. i think Amherst can truly benefit by getting an opinion from someone on the victim's side. (from what could be her perspective)

I'm glad you know everyone on this board well enough to back your statement up.


I think she mentioned me and she does know me...but this thread is not about the other posters. It's about the OP and his inability to accept someone (an innocent) who was molested (through no fault of her own).

ETA: What Wes said![sm=thumbsup.gif]

Inability or inexperience? Ignorance isn't a sin...it seems he is aware he is ignorant of how to accept someone who has been tragically violated and wants to learn how to deal with it. I'm failing to see why he needs to be told to "move on" because he hasn't been there.



WesP -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 4:42:20 PM)

quote:

I'm failing to see why he needs to be told to "move on" because he hasn't been there.


I'm sure the concern is that she is very fragile from her experiences, and if someone maintains a close relationship with her, that person has to be stable, loving, and supportive without judgment. Otherwise, the relationship simply will reinforce the negativity within her because of what has happened.



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 4:45:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace

quote:

I'm failing to see why he needs to be told to "move on" because he hasn't been there.


I'm sure the concern is that she is very fragile from her experiences, and if someone maintains a close relationship with her, that person has to be stable, loving, and supportive without judgment. Otherwise, the relationship simply will reinforce the negativity within her because of what has happened.

That I will agree with, however I still give him huge kudos for wanting prayer and knowledge on how to accept it himself. Is anyone truly ready to deal with someone who has been through such a tragic incident? And at 19?



elastic -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 4:46:11 PM)

I don't think anyone has said "move on because you haven't been there". i think what we, or what I am saying rather, is, if you can't deal with this right now, then take a break from her. step aside and deal with your feelings, as she deals with hers. he can still be her friend, he can still support her without being in a romantic situation with her while these things get hashed out.

i'll say this as lovingly and as compassionate as i can,....Amherst, I do appreciate that you are trying to come to grips with all of this. I do know that in the beginning of this thread, you worded things a little bit offensively, and i truly believe that now, on page 3, you are starting to change your approach to this. I know that deep down, you know that the molestation wasn't her fault, and deep down, you will do whatever you can to help her get through this. but i also want you to know that people deal with things differently. she may need extra time, extra grace, extra support from you, from her friends, from her family. If you are going to be there for her, continue to date her, you need to be prepared for the eventuality of the memories of the situation to rear it's ugly head. it's not something you can just forget or brush aside. (not that you would do that, but i'm just letting you know).

nobody is saying you should abandon her, but we are saying that if she needs the space to heal, you should give it to her. if she needs the support of someone who won't look down on her, and you can be that person, then you need to BE that person, without doubt, without second thoughts, and without adding to her guilt by treating her as something dirty and used. that is what I am trying to say.



WesP -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 4:48:47 PM)

quote:

Is anyone truly ready to deal with someone who has been through such a tragic incident?


Some people are; yes. That is very rare individual.



buckifn -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 4:49:42 PM)

quote:

I find it strange that you feel more justified in your words by saying that, "it's something that he doesn't want to hear," as if that means you're speaking in love and wisdom and compassion.

You and a couple others have definately slammed him and have not been at all helpful. You react in emotion and criticalness and that isn't helpful either.

_____________________________


I don't think personal attacks are allowed here.



elastic -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 4:51:08 PM)

quote:

Is anyone truly ready to deal with someone who has been through such a tragic incident? And at 19?


some people had to deal with this at a much younger age.

some people have to grow up very fast. 19 is not so young. many people marry and have kids by the age of 19...you are an adult at 19, so...

i'm just sorry that anybody has to deal with it at any age. it's a horrible horrible thing. [&o]



Kat_D -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 4:58:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: buckifn

quote:

I find it strange that you feel more justified in your words by saying that, "it's something that he doesn't want to hear," as if that means you're speaking in love and wisdom and compassion.

You and a couple others have definately slammed him and have not been at all helpful. You react in emotion and criticalness and that isn't helpful either.

_____________________________


I don't think personal attacks are allowed here.


Sometimes the little red hand at the bottom of the posts comes in very handy! Once we press it, we don't have to see the personal attacks any longer. I just love that feature![:D]



Roberta_ -> RE: How To View The Molested? (5/1/2008 5:06:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

quote:

ORIGINAL: buckifn

quote:

I find it strange that you feel more justified in your words by saying that, "it's something that he doesn't want to hear," as if that means you're speaking in love and wisdom and compassion.

You and a couple others have definately slammed him and have not been at all helpful. You react in emotion and criticalness and that isn't helpful either.

_____________________________


I don't think personal attacks are allowed here.


Sometimes the little red hand at the bottom of the posts comes in very handy! Once we press it, we don't have to see the personal attacks any longer. I just love that feature![:D]


Yeah, I've had to use it a time or two myself!



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