Divorce And Pornography Question (Full Version)

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Vachristian -> Divorce And Pornography Question (4/29/2008 3:37:12 AM)

I had a real struggle with pornography back in 2003 that led to me
and my wife being apart for the past 4 years.We have been dating
for the past 8 months and get along 90 percent of the time and the
other 10 percent we argue and try to work things out.We are going
to be counciled soon by our pastor to see if he can help us understand
our differences.I admit it was my fault that so much happened and
I did look at pornography 90 percent of the time and 10 percent went
into chat rooms talking unapproiate things but I never once tried to
contact any certain person and never made any sexual contact with
any other person other than my wife.We have been married for 20
years and I have never been with anyone other than her in all that
time.After our son was born she put our marriage third and our child
above our marriage.We were intimate a lot prior to our child coming
but after that she placed more value on our child than our marriage
and the things she would say to me made me hurt a lot and our intimacy
suffered a lot by the way she acted towards me.It seems that she got
what she wanted in a having a child and since then he came first always.
I felt frustrated and hurt by her actions towards me and isolated and I
turned to pornography and sometimes general chatrooms where hundreds
of people are and I did wrong by doing this.Pornography is mainly what
I was addicted to and never once in twenty years did I ever physically
cheat on my wife and never thought about it.I was just trying to find a
release for my hurt as she was not being attentive to my needs as a man.
Pornography is wrong and I was wrong and I have paid dearly for my
actions and talking vulgar in a chat room was also wrong and sinful.I did
not go to church for 4 years but I now go to weekly Bible study for the
past 8 months and have also started going back to church.I could not
feel Gods power or presence in my life for 4 years also.The Lords let me
feel his presence and power again last august and I am so on fire for
Jesus and his delivering power after he delivered me from a tremendous
spirtual attack that you would not believe.I am more in Love with God
than I have ever been in my life and cant get enough of his word.I love
my son more than life itself and none of this is his fault and I thank God
everyday for him.The problem is my wife says she forgives me but she
has so much anger and bitterness towards me it is destroying the bond
we have as she cant release it and she is also a christian but very
hardhearted towards me.I have apologized a 1000 times and asked for
forgiveness and also forgiven her for the way she treated me and walked
out on me in 2004.She believes if we cant work things out this is spirtual
grounds for divorce and I disagree strongly as I never once ever touched
any other person or had a desire to do so when I was sinning by engaging
pornography in my life when I was deceived by the enemy so strongly.
Jesus said divorce is permissable only for the act of adultry and I never
once commited that act with anyone physcially.I will admit that I did lust
by looking at pornography spirtually and it was wrong but I never touched
any one else and never wanted to.Jesus said that anyone that looks at
a person with lust in there heart has commited adultry in his heart but he
did not say that spirtual adultry was a reason for divorce only for the act
of adultry and I did not do that and never would.I bet that ninety percent
of christians who are married since they have been christians have lusted
by pornography or lusted in there hearts and if this is the case then that
is a simple justification for divorce and Jesus did not mean it that way as
I believe he said that as he wanted us to search our hearts and to know
that it is morally wrong to think like this and I agree.God has totally
set me free from lustful thoughts and pornography and I want to be used
by the Lord to witness to other men and and women about the dangers
of that and any other addiction that the enemy uses against us as I love
the Lord with all my heart and my will is to plese my saviour and Lord.
So after all this my question is do you believe what I confess to what I
did by lusting by lookin at pornography and talking vulgar in a chatroom
is Biblical grounds for divorce or must it be a physical act as I believe
the scripture says it is.My hearts desire is to work out our marriage as
I know God brought us together and so does my wife and I am totally
giving this to the Lord and pray he will use it for his glory.My prayer is
that God will deliver my wife from anger and bitterness that the enemy
is constantly bringing up to her and to restore us as one.Any thoughts
you share is appreciated! In Christ,Mike



maddog4god -> RE: Divorce And Pornography Question (4/29/2008 5:44:51 AM)

quote:

I did look at pornography 90 percent of the time and 10 percent went into chat rooms talking unapproiate things but I never once tried to contact any certain person and never made any sexual contact with any other person other than my wife.


quote:

I felt frustrated and hurt by her actions towards me and isolated and I turned to pornography and sometimes general chatrooms where hundreds of people are and I did wrong by doing this.Pornography is mainly what I was addicted to and never once in twenty years did I ever physically cheat on my wife and never thought about it.I was just trying to find a release for my hurt as she was not being attentive to my needs as a man.


You said the above two things and while you are close, you are not exactly there. You are justifying what you did repeatedly by saying you never physically cheated. That does not make it less wrong nor make you a better person. Your justification makes you sound insincere (as it would me also or anyone else for that matter). Porn use is wrong period, regardless of whether you ever make contact with anyone else or not. Your wife no doubt picks up on this as well. The words we choose to use are always very telling no matter how nice we make them sound. Honestly porn is very devestating to a wife - it's one thing to compete with another actual woman who may have flaws and a whole different story to compete with thousands of perfect twenty year olds who are taking up room in your head. I don't think you understaand the depth of your wife's pain because you would not be so quick to justify away your sin if you did.

You are also blaming your wife for your choices. My spouse does a lot of things wrong, but he is NOT my standard - Jesus is. he is not my sufficieny - God alone is. I do not say, "Well if he is good to me today and meets my needs I will choose not to sin". Like I said, you are close, but you are not quite there yet. You are responsible for your sin alone regardless of how others, including your wife treat you. The bible doesn't say, Well as long as everyone is good to you, don't sin, but if you feel neglected, go ahead and sin. Not trying to be harsh, just sharing something I have had to learn the hard way.


quote:

The problem is my wife says she forgives me but she has so much anger and bitterness towards me it is destroying the bond we have as she cant release it and she is also a christian but very hardhearted towards me.I have apologized a 1000 times and asked for forgiveness and also forgiven her for the way she treated me and walked out on me in 2004.


If you say the things you say above to her - your apologies do not mean much. If you say, I am sorry I looked at porn but if you would have met my needs I would have never done that - that's not an apology, it may feel like one to you, but it comes across as a dig.

If you truly want to save your marriage, dig yourself only. Check your heart and keep your eyes on the Lord. If you continue to move forward, your wife iwll notice. You can't blame her for being skeptical of where you are at. You destroyd her trust in you and you continue to hurt her with the things I have pointed out.



lastblast -> RE: Divorce And Pornography Question (4/29/2008 7:50:25 AM)

I agree that you need to stop saying that you only turned to porn because your wife wasn't there for you. ALL of us can be guilty of not meeting another person's needs, yet the truth is, we can only blame ourselves in how WE respond if we choose sin.

We can choose to walk uprightly irregardless of another's treatment or we can turn to sin because another has sinned causing us to suffer. Christians are called to a higher response than how the world responds to hurt/rejection/suffering. Did your wife do wrong in how she neglected you? Absolutely and that is why Paul told married people not to put each other off, so that they would not be tempted. You were put off, then tempted, then succombed to that. However, if you have discussed your hurt with your wife you need to leave it. You now need to focus on YOUR guilt-----acknowledging how far short YOU fell, letting her know how pornography hurt her and possibly caused her to have a bad self image----and then let the Lord bring conviction to her concerning her part in this. She also needs healing and you need to let her have the time. You may think it's been long enough, but for her, it may not be. Love is LONGSUFFERING and patient (I Cor. 13), remember that----for the good of your marriage, k?

As to divorce, for those who believe the exception clause means one can divorce for adultery, according to Jesus' definition of adultery(Mt. 5), then yes, one would think the exception clause pertains to pornography, not just the "act". However, I do NOT believe adultery (physical or of the heart) is a reason for dissolving what God has joined together. If this is a first marriage for you and your wife, the LORD has declared that you are joined for life. Check out the links in my signature line.

Blessings Brother!



YZGUY -> RE: Divorce And Pornography Question (4/29/2008 8:35:26 AM)

Mike,

That's great that you have been getting closer to the Lord. It sounds like you have been coming to grips with your sin. Like the above posts state, there does seem to be some justification - or are you explaining the situation?

Your question, though was more about this being a reason for divorce. Let's say that most people disagree with her thinking that this is grounds for divorce. What will you do with that info? If you say that you checked with other people to convince her not to divorce you, then what? Whether you're right or wrong about divorce in this situation, it matters little if she is the one making the decision. I think that this is something that she must explore. Do all you can to understand her feelings, the impact of your sins on her. Just focus on listening, repeating what she said in your own words to let her know you are listening and trying to understand (this is intimacy (into-me-see). Then, after you have a better understanding and she knows you understand, then start working on her understanding you and your decisions.



karlie -> RE: Divorce And Pornography Question (4/29/2008 11:44:34 AM)

Attention: Moderator's Note:

Just a reminder that this thread may NOT turn into debating or even discussing divorce. If you wish to discuss the topic of divorce, please follow the link below.

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Please do not reply to this message within the Community, or send me PMs regarding this.

Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.

Sincerely,

Karlie
Forums Moderator



Hislittleone -> RE: Divorce And Pornography Question (4/30/2008 2:50:58 AM)

quote:

maddog4god: You are justifying what you did repeatedly by saying you never physically cheated. That does not make it less wrong nor make you a better person. Your justification makes you sound insincere (as it would me also or anyone else for that matter). Porn use is wrong period, regardless of whether you ever make contact with anyone else or not.


I completely agree with everything maddog4god posted. I am a wife whose husband used to indulge in porn and lied about it for years. So I can understand how your wife feels and what she is going through.

quote:

maddog4god: I don't think you understaand the depth of your wife's pain because you would not be so quick to justify away your sin if you did.


Agree 100%. Vachristian, you may understand that this has hurt your wife but you apparently don't understand the extent, the depth of her pain. True healing couldn't begin for us until my husband understood the depth of my pain. We are almost 1 year into the healing process. My husband "gets it" and takes TOTAL responsibility for HIS sin, HIS choices. PTL! Without that we wouldn't be doihng nearly as well as we are today.

quote:

maddog4god: You are also blaming your wife for your choices
.

Saying that you chose to sin because she wasn't fulfilling your need is a total copout. You need to take TOTAL responsiblity. Your sin, your choice, your responsibility.

quote:

maddog4god: If you say the things you say above to her - your apologies do not mean much. If you say, I am sorry I looked at porn but if you would have met my needs I would have never done that - that's not an apology, it may feel like one to you, but it comes across as a dig.


Again, I totally agree. Never follow an apology with a "BUT".....meaning never follow it with an excuse or an explanation. That only negates the apology.

If, after all of this, your wife chooses to stay married to you then you are indeed a blessed man.

Pray that God will open your eyes to the truth....His truth. Also, these books and website have been greatly helpful to me and my husband in our journey. Man of Her Dreams/Woman of His, Livin' It and Lovin' It by Joel and Kathy Davisson and Every Man's Battle and Every Heart Restored (it's written for wives but will help you gain a deeper understanding of how this affects your wife....how deeply it hurts her) by Fred Stoeker

http://www.joelandkathy.com/

http://www.fredstoeker.com/home.shtml

I highly recommend you get in touch with Joel and Kathy Davisson. They will disciple you in how to become a Christlike husband and how to win your wife's heart back. They offer phone counseling (private and group) and have a forum where you can ask for advice. My husband does the phone counseling 2x per week with Joel and Kathy and has read both books. It has helped us SOOOO much! I really hope you will consider doing this.



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