RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case

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rcjames -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/26/2008 6:23:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc Here in NYC, they ask us to submit to random searches on subways, in traffic, and occasionally even on sidewalks. They carry automatic weapons in times square and occasionally arrest people who accidentally bring pocketknives into the city. If that's not enough, they randomly shoot people. how does one "Accidently" carry an illegal knife? How about a link to the police "Randomly" shooting folks? Thanks RC

rnershigh -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/26/2008 7:02:11 PM)
It's pretty sad that the police are automatically assumed to be the guilty party and the criminal is always the victim. It's sad. In this case, I'm glad the police involved were found not guilty. Like someone else stated, the police are damned either way. If they don't do enough and the criminal gets away to commit another horrible crime people cry, "Where were the police here?!" If they are seen as doing too much, people cry, "The police are being too brutal, this is injustice" etc, etc, etc. We should just let the police do their job. Most of them are hardworking Americans doing a dangerous job to protect the rest of us. Sure there are bad apples, but we shouldn't let that color the whole bunch as most are decent people just doing their job.

lightshineon -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/26/2008 7:09:52 PM)
It would be a scary job, not knowing if you were coming home to your family, Always a battle zone, in some instances, with dealing with gangs and such. quote: ORIGINAL: rnershigh It's pretty sad that the police are automatically assumed to be the guilty party and the criminal is always the victim. It's sad. In this case, I'm glad the police involved were found not guilty. Like someone else stated, the police are damned either way. If they don't do enough and the criminal gets away to commit another horrible crime people cry, "Where were the police here?!" If they are seen as doing too much, people cry, "The police are being too brutal, this is injustice" etc, etc, etc. We should just let the police do their job. Most of them are hardworking Americans doing a dangerous job to protect the rest of us. Sure there are bad apples, but we shouldn't let that color the whole bunch as most are decent people just doing their job.

staticspark1947 -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/26/2008 8:44:17 PM)
To those who feel that the police were 100% in the right. O.K. What if it were not Sean Bell who was shot numerous times, but one of your loved ones? . How would you feel?

_jjp_ -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/26/2008 9:12:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: staticspark1947 To those who feel that the police were 100% in the right. O.K. What if it were not Sean Bell who was shot numerous times, but one of your loved ones? . How would you feel? This may be hard for you to believe but if one of my loved ones had attempted to mow down an officer of the law with his car then I wouldn't hold the officers accountable for the death of my loved one. I am a huge advocate of personal responsibility and I expect the same from my loved ones.

rnershigh -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/26/2008 10:50:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: _jjp_ quote: ORIGINAL: staticspark1947 To those who feel that the police were 100% in the right. O.K. What if it were not Sean Bell who was shot numerous times, but one of your loved ones? . How would you feel? This may be hard for you to believe but if one of my loved ones had attempted to mow down an officer of the law with his car then I wouldn't hold the officers accountable for the death of my loved one. I am a huge advocate of personal responsibility and I expect the same from my loved ones. What jjp said.[8D] This is just a hypothetical, but what if he had been successful in running over a police officer (or more than one) and murdering them? What if instead of trying to run down a police officer, this man had run his car into innocent bystanders in the way? Would the police have been justified in trying to stop this person? If the police had used too little force in the latter situation and an innocent got murdered when they could have stopped the perpetrator, I can guarantee there would be outcry and outrage at how the police failed the public it was supposed to protect.[8\|] Although none of the above events happened in the real situation that occurred, I think the police did right in trying to stop this man because let's face it, these criminals don't care about whether they hurt innocents or not. I've watched that tv show cops enough to know that when these guys are being chased or arrested by police, they have no regard for the lives of their fellow human beings. The police were trying to stop this man. It is clear he was intent on mortally wounding the officers at the scene and trying to get away. What, should they have just stood in the way and not raised their guns to protect themselves and innocents that could get in the way if they allowed him to get away?

blessedinnyc -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 2:14:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rcjames how does one "Accidently" carry an illegal knife? Thanks RC Very easily. When I was in sixth grade, a kid who was in boy scouts with me accidentally left his pocketknife in his backpack from a campout, and brought his pocketknife to school. Technically, it is illegal to bring a pocketknife into school in Illinois, and when a teacher discovered this, he was suspended for a week. Had this happened in NYC, he would have faced seven years in prison for carrying an illegal weapon. Don't pretend that something similar can't happen in New York City, which has commuters from another state who might accidentally bring in something that might be legal in New Jersey but illegal in New York. Given NYC's infinitessimal violent crime rate, I'm sure they arrest more people who make honest mistakes than violent criminals with these random unconstitutional searches.

rcjames -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 8:27:12 AM)
Well Al (Poverty Pimp) Sharpton is threatening to shut down New Your City over the outcome of the trial. see HERE, what a dirt bag. Thsnks RC

dinomax55 -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 9:19:29 AM)
This is a horrible situation.. but I'm not surprised, honestly. Another case where the burden of proof is on the victim. I'm not so inclined to blindly believe what the cops say in these situations, It's not like cops haven't lied about this kind of thing in the past.. Perhaps those not in the inner city don't understand why people would be so upset about this verdict. In the suburbs, the police are held in higher esteem, because generally they are there to 'serve and protect'. In urban areas, there is a lack of trust in the police, because there is a history of police harassment, intimidation, and brutality in those communities. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and critique the situation from out in the 'burbs, because you have a different experience with law enforcement. You've never been in a situation where you almost didn't want to call the cops because it would be more trouble than it's worth. I've personally seen where police try to intimidate people, and I have been pulled over and questioned for no reason (more than once!), so I know what goes through people's minds here. (and no- I don't have a record!)

1dblthnk02 -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 10:02:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rcjames If someone is disobeying the orders of police and trying to run down the law enforcement officers, shooting is warrented According to his friends, Bell was not aware that they were law officers. What if this was so? What if his actions were not knowingly against policemen, but rather just plain self defense? Is this possible? quote: Lordy an RPG would have been warrented. Sorry, but I don't know what you mean here . . .

rcjames -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 10:36:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dinomax55 This is a horrible situation.. but I'm not surprised, honestly. Another case where the burden of proof is on the victim. I'm not so inclined to blindly believe what the cops say in these situations, It's not like cops haven't lied about this kind of thing in the past.. Perhaps those not in the inner city don't understand why people would be so upset about this verdict. In the suburbs, the police are held in higher esteem, because generally they are there to 'serve and protect'. In urban areas, there is a lack of trust in the police, because there is a history of police harassment, intimidation, and brutality in those communities. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and critique the situation from out in the 'burbs, because you have a different experience with law enforcement. You've never been in a situation where you almost didn't want to call the cops because it would be more trouble than it's worth. I've personally seen where police try to intimidate people, and I have been pulled over and questioned for no reason (more than once!), so I know what goes through people's minds here. (and no- I don't have a record!) How about living a life where you don't ever have to call the cops, how about turning the inner city into a crime free zone like most of the subs, then the police could be just peachy in both places. It is the lifestyle of most of those in the inner city that bring about mistrust from the authorities by their high crime rates, covering for criminals, lying to the police, not obeying the police, etc. etc. etc. A policeman can come into my neighborhood and know that he is not going to be shot at, no bottles throwed at him, that he will be treated with respect, and if he has to arrest someone; they just arrest thme; no ripts, no scene, not uproar, no lying witnesses, etc. Big difference Thanks RC

earthless -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 10:38:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 Thank you. However, sarcasm isn't usually my style. You're welcome. [:)] quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 I could say the very same thing about many non-black televangelists. And rightly you should, and I certainely do. I guess you're not familiar with my posts against the Osteens, Hinns, Paula Whites, etc.. quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 And I suppose that Poverty Pimps is a completely neutral and technically correct term? It sure can be and has - but the reality is that it is most seen in the black community. That's not something that can be danced around or sugar-coated. quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 The article did. Yes, not me. And the article also mentions that two of the officers are black themselves. quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 What if the 60 year old woman is active in a gang and in the drug business? Not too many of those, and I do know that. quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 But seriously, gunning a man down in the streets and then justifying it after the fact by saying, "Well, looky there-- he had a record, so it's okay" sounds mighty hypocritical especially considering the victim's color. The place was a known drug and prostitution house - the officers knew that going in and that will raise the level of anticipation and danger when dealing with three young men coming out of it late at night. Especially when they outright disobeyed lawful commands which no one has a legal right to do. quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 Actually, I am challenging that you have a race issue. I have an issue with criminals - those who disobey lawful commands, disrespect authority, feel above the law, and use a deadly weapon to impose mortal danger/threat to those doing their job. quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 You say that the vicitm's color makes no difference, but let's be honest. Had the victim been white, would your attitude have been any different at all? Not at all - a criminal is a criminal. Again, please stop trying to make this a race issue when I have never made it into one. The article/the media can make it one - but you can't fairly pin that on me when I have said otherwise.

earthless -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 10:40:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rabstark In the case of the officer who fired two magazines in this case, he was a responder whose vehicle was rammed by the suspects' vehicle. As has been pointed out, a motor vehicle is considered a deadly weapon when it is being used as one, which it was. When an officer is under attack, he keeps firing until he's sure the attack has stopped... he doesn't stand there counting the number of rounds he's fired and think, "Hmmm, I wonder if I've fired too many?" Bingo! Officers are trained to do what it necessary to stop a mortal threat, to disengage it from causing serious bodily harm or death to innocent people and to themselves.

earthless -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 10:43:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: staticspark1947 To those who feel that the police were 100% in the right. O.K. What if it were not Sean Bell who was shot numerous times, but one of your loved ones? . How would you feel? If one of my loved ones was a known criminal, with gang associations, drug prior, coming out of a known (under surveillance) drug/prostitution house, disobeying repeated lawful commands that police use, then running into a van, then using that van to try and kill the officers? You reap what you sow. Every thing we do has consequences, be them good or bad ones.

earthless -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 10:46:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: _jjp_ I am a huge advocate of personal responsibility..... Sadly, that is not something a large chunk of the American populace adheres to. And even more sadder? A large chunk of the American Christian populace also does not - they want others to bail them out of their own self-caused problems due to lack of work ethic, lack of personal responsibility. So they cling to churches, to teachers, to movements that promise them health and wealth (regardless of their personal decisions). But that's a topic for another day and another thread.

earthless -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 10:47:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rcjames Well Al (Poverty Pimp) Sharpton is threatening to shut down New Your City over the outcome of the trial. see HERE, what a dirt bag. Thsnks RC I wonder how he feels that he is constantly inciting violence and the continual disrespect of all authority under the guise and banner of being a "Reverend".

1dblthnk02 -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 11:02:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthless It sure can be and has - but the reality is that it is most seen in the black community. That's not something that can be danced around or sugar-coated. Well, then I guess you'll have to give me some examples in the media, or of anyone using the term Poverty Pimp in a neutral manner. quote: Yes, not me. And the article also mentions that two of the officers are black themselves. As I told Jhud, this does not make it okay. It reveals a racist undercurrent when anyone unquestioningly considers the murder of a person of color by another person of color to be somehow better or more justifiable than an interracial murder. quote: The place was a known drug and prostitution house I question the accuracy of this. To me it sounds like semantic hyperbole and a bald-faced justification for what occured. quote: Especially when they outright disobeyed lawful commands which no one has a legal right to do. But he apparently didn't know that they were cops. Everyone conveniently ignores this little tidbit-- why do you suppose that is? quote: I have an issue with criminals Apparently you prefer street justice over the legal system. quote: Again, please stop trying to make this a race issue when I have never made it into one. It is a race issue whether or not you make it one. Had the victim been white, this whole episode would have been turned on its head. quote: The article/the media can make it one - but you can't fairly pin that on me when I have said otherwise. Yes I can when you unquestioningly condone the outcome of a trial acquitting the killers of an unarmed black man-- shot 50 times-- who was not even charged with a crime.

staticspark1947 -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 1:31:57 PM)
Two of my cousins in Tennessee have been carjacked recently in two separate incidents requiring medical care for minor injuries. Thankfully it could have been worse. With all that's going on these days perhaps if someone was approaching me I would run them over also. How am I to know it's an undercover policeman? UNCOVER by definition means he is hiding his identity as a policeman. Any thug can say"Halt, Police!!" . How many of us would really take them at their word especially outside of a strip club? My first instinct would be to try to get away!! It's too bad a cop was ran over in the process , however, we live in dangerous times. People are not always who they say they are!! Yes, these guys had criminal records..so do people from Enron, and Adelphia , they are now serving prison terms for fleecing many people out of millions of dollars. If some of them are ever released and decide to patronize a strip club and were shot under identical circumstances in a bloodbath..I guess that would be justified because they are also thugs , right?

earthless -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 2:18:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 Yes I can when you unquestioningly condone the outcome of a trial acquitting the killers of an unarmed black man-- shot 50 times-- who was not even charged with a crime. He was not unarmed, the car is a deadly weapon when used to hit/attempt to hit someone. Two of three officers were black, why do you continually take the above out of the equation. Poverty pimp used in a neutral manner? That's an oxymoron - for it, like I said, applies to the black community. I have no problem taking about race/ethnic issues - for my background, upbringing, and job more than qualify me to do so.

earthless -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 2:24:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: staticspark1947 I guess that would be justified because they are also thugs , right? If they disobeyed lawful commands and then used a vehicle to try and run over an officer, yes. Those two things are: 1) Warrants for arrest and charges of resisting, obstructing, etc.. & 2) aggravated attempt murder - 1st and 2nd degree felonies of AT MUR1 and AT MUR2. The officers were justified, whether some like it or not. Which is why we need to teach our kids to respect authority figures (be them cops, teachers, judges, lawyers, adults, period..).

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 2:28:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02 According to his friends, Bell was not aware that they were law officers. What if this was so? What if his actions were not knowingly against policemen, but rather just plain self defense? Is this possible? According to the judge the credibility of Bell's friends was said to be questionable... quote: quote: Lordy an RPG would have been warrented. Sorry, but I don't know what you mean here . . . Rocket Propelled Grenade... John

1dblthnk02 -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 3:42:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthless He was not unarmed, the car is a deadly weapon when used to hit/attempt to hit someone. . . . in self defense? I just might do the same thing if some unidentified rapscallions came after me with guns in their hands. quote: Two of three officers were black, why do you continually take the above out of the equation. I haven't. I have addressed this several times. Re-read my posts. quote: Poverty pimp used in a neutral manner? That's an oxymoron - for it, like I said, applies to the black community. . . . and is therefore a racial epithet. Do you deny this? quote: I have no problem taking about race/ethnic issues - for my background, upbringing, and job more than qualify me to do so. I didn't know that people had to be "qualified" to discuss racial issues.

1dblthnk02 -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 3:47:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe According to the judge the credibility of Bell's friends was said to be questionable... Well, of course. In court, a cop's word is always esteemed in higher credibility over the "bad guy's" word unless it can be absolutely proved otherwise. quote: Rocket Propelled Grenade... Ah, good one rcjames-- collateral damage along with execution by firing squad. Get twenty of "them" for the price of one. What a bargain.

buckifn -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 3:58:29 PM)
Being out with strippers is a very poor way to celebrate the fact you are getting married and says a lot about a person's moral values, but does that person deserve to be shot 50 times by some group of people because they have a badge? I say no. Moral corruption is not a grounds for execution in the U.S. but I guess that didn't matter in this case.

rnershigh -> RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case (4/27/2008 3:59:37 PM)
earthless, It's pointless arguing. Some people will think the criminal can do no wrong and the police are always wrong no matter what they do or don't do.[8D] I want to know is why is race entering the equation here? I hate it when people try to bring race into the discussion. The fact the man was black is not the main issue and is not the reason why he was shot at. Hmm...maybe it could be because he was trying to mow down cops with his car.....[8\|]

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