RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag

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SovereignIsHe -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 7:54:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 Sorry I didn't know I had to complete the quote to dispel any confusion over the meaning "AND GIVE TO GOD WHAT IS GOD'S"! Is that better now? Wasn't looking for the other part... From what you posted it would seem you were using the verse to say the girl should recite the government's pledge based on what is owed to the government... You said... Even Jesus said to "give to Ceasar ..." quote: Why couldn't a Christian when saying the words "under God" know that for him/her would mean under the Lordship of Jesus Christ? Why would a Christian wish to recite a government pledge from a government that doesn't honor God as its King? And no, a nod in the pledge of allegiance to the Flag, not God, isn't honoring God... John

GroupW -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 8:01:54 PM)
For better or worse, and risking a good thrashing here, I don't have a problem with not saying the pledge. In fact, I don't. I probably stopped about 5 or 6 years ago with no particular reason that I can articulate other than a wordless knot in my gut. I just couldn't do it. Maybe one day I'll start again, but for now I'll choose to stand quietly. Out of respect, I still stand and remove my hat etc. Doesn't stop my from singing the Star Spangled Banner though. I still love that. BT Edit: I am fully prepared to admit that this is a personal hang up of mine and should in no way be construed as taking a position on whether or not YOU should recite the pledge.

colliefan -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 9:06:23 PM)
She has the right to sit during the pledge.

mapachito13 -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 9:18:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colliefan She has the right to sit during the pledge. She has the right to sit but I don't see any theological reason not to recite it. There is nothing in the pledge that says you are worshipping the state. Allegiance does not equal homage. JW's, I thought, were the only major sect that advocated this.

1love1God1way -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 9:50:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 quote: ORIGINAL: colliefan She has the right to sit during the pledge. She has the right to sit but I don't see any theological reason not to recite it. There is nothing in the pledge that says you are worshipping the state. Allegiance does not equal homage. JW's, I thought, were the only major sect that advocated this. But theological reasoning is not the point of this thread. What happened was that her constitutional rights were trampled upon. Thank goodness they cleared it up for that poor girl so she can graduate. Shame on the principle for not knowing the law and acting in accordance to their own idea of what the law does or should say. . .

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 9:57:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 quote: ORIGINAL: colliefan She has the right to sit during the pledge. She has the right to sit but I don't see any theological reason not to recite it. There is nothing in the pledge that says you are worshipping the state. Allegiance does not equal homage. JW's, I thought, were the only major sect that advocated this. What does it mean to swear allegiance? John

lightshineon -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/25/2008 5:34:24 PM)
Well as much as I think, (just my opinion though) this is rebellious, she is within her rights by law. No one ask her to bow down to the flag, just stand. Though she is intitled to her freedoms, which much blood was shed for by our brave men and women to have her free speech. So she better enjoy it, or at the very least respect the sacrifice.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/25/2008 5:49:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lightshineon Well as much as I think, (just my opinion though) this is rebellious, she is within her rights by law. No one ask her to bow down to the flag, just stand. Though she is intitled to her freedoms, which much blood was shed for by our brave men and women to have her free speech. So she better enjoy it, or at the very least respect the sacrifice. Rebellious to whom? I don't pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States because I believe it's unworty pledge/oath. The government of the United States doe not hold Christ as King so how can I pledge my allegiance to it? John

mapachito13 -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/25/2008 5:53:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 quote: ORIGINAL: colliefan She has the right to sit during the pledge. She has the right to sit but I don't see any theological reason not to recite it. There is nothing in the pledge that says you are worshipping the state. Allegiance does not equal homage. JW's, I thought, were the only major sect that advocated this. What does it mean to swear allegiance? John You are taking a pledge (or making a promise) to be a good citizen of the US, an oath of loyalty to the US. Is there something sinister about that?

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/25/2008 6:51:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 quote: ORIGINAL: colliefan She has the right to sit during the pledge. She has the right to sit but I don't see any theological reason not to recite it. There is nothing in the pledge that says you are worshipping the state. Allegiance does not equal homage. JW's, I thought, were the only major sect that advocated this. What does it mean to swear allegiance? John You are taking a pledge (or making a promise) to be a good citizen of the US, an oath of loyalty to the US. Is there something sinister about that? Is the United State's government worthy of a Christian's oath of loyalty? I don't believe so... The government doesn't consider Christ its King, its leadership doesn't fear God, many of its laws are in direct conflict with God's law, and it see all beliefs as equal to the Truth... John

lightshineon -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/25/2008 7:02:44 PM)
Well John the thing the USA, that you say does not deserve your loyalty, is the very thing men die for, so you can say these things and keep your head attached to your shoulders. I do not worship the flag, but yes loyalty is an important concept in any good relationship. Think of it as unity. Without unity, we will fall, in scripture, Jesus said a house divided will not stand.I dare to say the USA, has most suredly, been good to you and me. What I think when doing the pledge, is not worship, but common unity, so maybe thinking of the USA in these terms, would be benifical. Of course it is up to you.[:)]

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/25/2008 7:26:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lightshineon Well John the thing the USA, that you say does not deserve your loyalty, is the very thing men die for, so you can say these things and keep your head attached to your shoulders. I do not worship the flag, but yes loyalty is an important concept in any good relationship. Think of it as unity. Without unity, we will fall, in scripture, Jesus said a house divided will not stand.I dare to say the USA, has most suredly, been good to you and me. What I think when doing the pledge, is not worship, but common unity, so maybe thinking of the USA in these terms, would be benifical. Of course it is up to you.[:)] I cannot have unity with a government that allows its citizens to muder the unborn(into the millions) while those who murder outside the womb are at times put to death... I just can't... Though the biggie for me is the country doesn't uphold the one true King of Kings... Allah gets the same regards as God in this country, and that goes all the way to the top... John

lightshineon -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/25/2008 7:44:16 PM)
Well it is up to you. We Christians who are American, unify, or should " "Under God" in these areas. like I said for me, not worship but a statement of unity under God. We each have to work out our own salvation though.[:)] quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: lightshineon Well John the thing the USA, that you say does not deserve your loyalty, is the very thing men die for, so you can say these things and keep your head attached to your shoulders. I do not worship the flag, but yes loyalty is an important concept in any good relationship. Think of it as unity. Without unity, we will fall, in scripture, Jesus said a house divided will not stand.I dare to say the USA, has most suredly, been good to you and me. What I think when doing the pledge, is not worship, but common unity, so maybe thinking of the USA in these terms, would be benifical. Of course it is up to you.[:)] I cannot have unity with a government that allows its citizens to muder the unborn(into the millions) while those who murder outside the womb are at times put to death... I just can't... Though the biggie for me is the country doesn't uphold the one true King of Kings... Allah gets the same regards as God in this country, and that goes all the way to the top... John

Ruthie -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/25/2008 11:28:10 PM)
I don't know. I find the whole concept of pledging allegiance to a piece of fabric incredibly creepy. No offense against your country and all, it just wierds me out.

lightshineon -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/26/2008 7:16:24 AM)
Hi Ruthie, it is not allegience to the cloth, but IMHO, alligence and unity as a group of people, under God. I am sure Canada has many traditions, we Americans might find strange. I really do not know, for sure. Like I said earlier the Bible says work out your own salvation with fear, and trembeling. I do not find it creepy, I guess it is just different perceptions. Blessings Light.[:)] quote: ORIGINAL: Ruthie I don't know. I find the whole concept of pledging allegiance to a piece of fabric incredibly creepy. No offense against your country and all, it just wierds me out.

Cloak -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/26/2008 8:22:25 AM)
I believe her act is unchristian! The Bible teaches us to "Give what to Cesar to Cesar and what is to God to God." Her behaviour implies trouble-making nature, creepy, and misrepresentation of Christianity that teaches us to love and respect one another including the government. It is sad to say that those negative Christians are the very ones who spoil the reputation of Christianity and Christians. [:'(][:(]

lightshineon -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/26/2008 8:33:17 AM)
That is my unpopular opinion also.[8D] quote: ORIGINAL: Cloak I believe her act is unchristian. The Bible teaches us to be "Give what to Cesar to Cesar and what is to God to God." Her behaviour implies trouble making nature, creepy and misrepresentation of Christianity that teaches us to love an respect every one including the governmental. It is sad to say that those negative Christians are the very ones who spoil the reputation of Christianity and Christians. [:'(][:(]

Cloak -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/26/2008 8:48:19 AM)
Right on and Ditto to us Lightshineon and all those who uphold this stand! [;)]

lightshineon -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/26/2008 10:34:16 AM)
agreed.[:D] quote: ORIGINAL: Cloak Right on and Ditto to us Lightshineon and all those who uphold this stand! [;)]

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/26/2008 2:18:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lightshineon Well it is up to you. We Christians who are American, unify, or should " "Under God" in these areas. like I said for me, not worship but a statement of unity under God. We each have to work out our own salvation though.[:)] I don't believe we can unify and not accept the good with the bad.... And the bad is such that I don't wish to be associated with anymore than I have to... I don't see how one can have unity with something that doesn't share even remotely even the slightest semblance of the Truth. And pledging allegiance to the flag or not has zero to do with those who choose to make the military a career in regards to respecting their choice and or sacrifice. I know I never wondered if people cared or whatever when I served... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/26/2008 2:34:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cloak I believe her act is unchristian! The Bible teaches us to "Give what to Cesar to Cesar and what is to God to God." Her behaviour implies trouble-making nature, creepy, and misrepresentation of Christianity that teaches us to love and respect one another including the government. The honor that is spoken of in the bible that Christians are required to show the government isn't a blanket requirement of anything the government so chooses. There are limits and given how much the bible stresses the seriousness of giving one's word, swearing other, etc I don't see how a Christian could swear anything to country that doesn't hold Christ King, and doesn't fear God... Your charge has not biblical standing and you're defending the perverse government over a Christian... Simply amazing... quote: It i sad to say that those negative Christians are the very ones who spoil the reputation of Christianity and Christians. [:'(][:(] Actually that would be the Christians who like the government and much of the population that believe such things as abortion, the homosexual agenda, ungodly laws, and a host of other plainly unbiblical things are perfectly fine because the government says so, regardless of the direct conflict with God�s word. Some even attribute these things to God... Yet a girl who doesn't swear an allegiance to a PROFESSED ungodly government that serves itself is acting unchristian... Things are surely turned upside down these days... John

lightshineon -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/26/2008 2:42:48 PM)
I Pledge Alligence to the Flag of the (United) States of America, and to the Republic in which (we )stand, (One) nation (under,) God (indivisible), with liberty and justice for all. Now that suggest Unity, not worship, we under God, are like minded. So what is wrong with it? No bowing offering sacrifices to the flag, but a pledge to unity, which without, we will fail. Are we unified under God? quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: lightshineon Well it is up to you. We Christians who are American, unify, or should " "Under God" in these areas. like I said for me, not worship but a statement of unity under God. We each have to work out our own salvation though.[:)] I don't believe we can unify and not accept the good with the bad.... And the bad is such that I don't wish to be associated with anymore than I have to... I don't see how one can have unity with something that doesn't share even remotely even the slightest semblance of the Truth. And pledging allegiance to the flag or not has zero to do with those who choose to make the military a career in regards to respecting their choice and or sacrifice. I know I never wondered if people cared or whatever when I served... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/26/2008 3:19:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lightshineon I Pledge Alligence to the Flag of the (United) States of America, and to the Republic in which (we )stand, (One) nation (under,) God (indivisible), with liberty and justice for all. Now that suggest Unity, not worship, we under God, are like minded. So what is wrong with it? No bowing offering sacrifices to the flag, but a pledge to unity, which without, we will fail. Are we unified under God? What's wrong with it? Everyday we are less a Republic... What little rule of law that is left is fleeting... We are not a nation under God... Christ is not King and many of our laws reflect that sad point... The "God" in the pledge is more a term, than a name... Liberty and justice for all? Hardly... This government allow its citizens to murder the unborn and we have the nerve to declare a ruler of another sovereign nation evil and invade... Major hypocrisy.... Anyone that believes the "Pledge" has anything to do with God is kidding themselves... Any unity with God in this country happens in spite of the ungodly government... John

lightshineon -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/26/2008 3:21:17 PM)
well what do you suggest? I mean I do not believe in those things, just like you. So are we not walking in unity. quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: lightshineon I Pledge Alligence to the Flag of the (United) States of America, and to the Republic in which (we )stand, (One) nation (under,) God (indivisible), with liberty and justice for all. Now that suggest Unity, not worship, we under God, are like minded. So what is wrong with it? No bowing offering sacrifices to the flag, but a pledge to unity, which without, we will fail. Are we unified under God? What's wrong with it? Everyday we are less a Republic... What little rule of law that is left is fleeting... We are not a nation under God... Christ is not King and many of our laws reflect that sad point... The "God" in the pledge is more a term, than a name... Liberty and justice for all? Hardly... This government allow its citizens to murder the unborn and we have the nerve to declare a ruler of another sovereign nation evil and invade... Major hypocrisy.... Anyone that believes the "Pledge" has anything to do with God is kidding themselves... Any unity with God in this country happens in spite of the ungodly government... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/26/2008 5:20:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lightshineon well what do you suggest? I mean I do not believe in those things, just like you. So are we not walking in unity. If you don't believe in those things why pledge to them? Or is the pledge whatever a person makes of it? If so, does it really have any meaning? And if that's the cas, why bother? John

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