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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 6:03:43 AM
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mapachito13
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Just wait. Soon the Saudis will want us to pay in Euros and then the price is USD will go up even more.
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And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 8:07:41 AM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Just wait. Soon the Saudis will want us to pay in Euros and then the price is USD will go up even more.
And we can blame the non-regulated Federal reserve for the falling value of the dollar.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 9:24:32 AM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
If you look at the price of oil and the price of gasoline you can see that they always rise and fall in conjunction. There is no (nor ever have been) any price controls on this most valuable commodity so the oil companies can raise the price of gas to whatever they want. This means they control the profit margin and can keep it within their acceptable percentages. This industry has never sustained a loss and the higher the price of gas goes (even with the weakening dollar) their profits go higher every year.
But oil companies aren't a monopoly.
I'll admit that an oligopoly becomes a problem if/when the commodity it supplies becomes so demand-inelastic that it can increase its own revenues by decreasing supply. However, I don't think this is happening.
quote:
A company cannot claim they are barely making any money and then post a profit that was greater than any in US history at the same time. Our politicians and the oil companies that buy them (excuse me, give them large campaign contributions) really do think Americans are that dumb. Are we???
By the time you're done, roughly 40% of the profits from pumping oil- and roughly 25-30% of the total market value of oil actually goes to the oil companies. So if you pay $110/barrel for oil, the oil company gets about $27-$33. The federal government, on the other hand, gets a whole lot more.
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 9:26:55 AM
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sisatnip
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yes. we are on a fixed income due to my husbands disability and when gas prices go up his check does not it is very hard on us as every thing else goes up too
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 12:14:13 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10820
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Where's the plan Nancy?
quote:
“Two years ago this week, you stated that House Democrats had a ‘commonsense plan’ to ‘lower gas prices,’ ” the letter said. “In light of the skyrocketing gasoline prices affecting working families and every sector of our struggling economy, we are writing today to respectfully request that you reveal this ‘commonsense plan’ so we can begin work on responsible solutions to help ease this strain.”
In a press release dated April 24, 2006, Pelosi said, “Democrats have a commonsense plan to help bring down skyrocketing gas prices by cracking down on price gouging, rolling back the billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies, tax breaks and royalty relief given to big oil and gas companies, and increasing production of alternative fuels.” The letter cited policies put in place during the GOP control of Congress that the Speaker claimed had raised prices on American consumers to benefit oil companies.
The House GOP leaders’ letter points out that the price of gasoline has spiked $1.18 since Democrats took over in January and stands at $3.51.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 12:25:23 PM
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Jhud
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The best possible thing for the environment, for the development of alternative fuels, and I think in many ways, for our communities, is rising fuel costs.
Capping them would be the stupidist thing we could do at this point; let the prices rise enough so the market reacts, and then we will start to see change.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 1:32:29 PM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
The best possible thing for the environment, for the development of alternative fuels, and I think in many ways, for our communities, is rising fuel costs.
Capping them would be the stupidist thing we could do at this point; let the prices rise enough so the market reacts, and then we will start to see change.
The problem is that oil not only affects the price of our commute but of everything that is a by-product of it. Food prices go up because it costs more to run the combines, to get it to market and even its packaging (plastic). Electrical energy is mostly produced using natural gas.
The market will react by tanking the GNP. The government needs to do what it should have done in 1973, take Saudi Arabia out of our oil picture and demand that Detroit produce more hybrids and raise the MPG on all cars and trucks.
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 1:52:22 PM
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mcp
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quote:
The market will react by tanking the GNP. The government needs to do what it should have done in 1973, take Saudi Arabia out of our oil picture and demand that Detroit produce more hybrids and raise the MPG on all cars and trucks.
unfortunately, this too affects the GNP negatively, especially if the move is "short-termed". The problem is that due to the recent history of our government's brakes on the swing of the economy, we think that we shouldn't suffer the effects anymore of the adjustments. We could cap prices off to solve the pain at the pump-- people will just have to live with the pain of not being able to get to a pump (with fuel). If you commute, you may have to adjust your lifestyle or your job. Due to adjustments in the economy, the company where you have a job may have to relocate due to the employee adjustments. Your solutions are still long term considerations and won't solve our immediate pains. That is why this pain (as Jhud infers) will drive the long term strategies.
People who can't afford the higher prices in fuel and food, probably shouldn't be out buying the newest and latest vehicles, be they the new hybrid or good MPG vehicles.
...Oh, I know, then we subsidize Detriot and the poor who commute with large displacement vehicles. That can't hurt the GNP that bad, can it?
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 2:01:38 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
The problem is that oil not only affects the price of our commute but of everything that is a by-product of it. Food prices go up because it costs more to run the combines, to get it to market and even its packaging (plastic). Electrical energy is mostly produced using natural gas.
The market will react by tanking the GNP. The government needs to do what it should have done in 1973, take Saudi Arabia out of our oil picture and demand that Detroit produce more hybrids and raise the MPG on all cars and trucks.
No one is going to do anything until it is economically feasible to do so, and the government can't simply 'demand' that new technologies be invented.
Both are best driven by the market, and that means that high oil prices will have to drive the changes, as it should.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 2:48:00 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Let us hope so.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 2:55:18 PM
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StephK
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That would take care of the landfill issues too.
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Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 4:27:58 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
The federal government, on the other hand, gets a whole lot more.
On this we agree; here in NC the total tax is over $1 a gallon. Thank God the Reps had enough votes to place a cap on the tax instead of leaving it as a per centage of the price per gallon.
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 4:51:00 PM
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Shrommer
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At first I got a real chuckle out of the topic question. Let's cap gas prices at $3 a gallon, and then it costs $3.25 per gallon to buy it from OPEC, so who's going to pay the other $0.25 cents per gallon? Why not cap the price of a new home at $100,000, or cap the price of a Lexus at $15,000? I mean, as long as we're trying to make life affordable ....
I think what we need are pedestrian communities where you can live a week on foot without having to drive anywhere - work, school, groceries. Then cars are used for special trips or for weekend entertainment. It is ridiculous that we have designed our geographical layouts so that one needs an automobile to live life. Of course, new fuel sources (like water) are on the way. Try searching "water cars" or "burning seawater". With all the global warming and rising oceans, we will now have more water on hand to use as a fuel.
Anyway, I realized later (after my initial chuckle) that we could put a cap on the profit amount or the profit percentage, instead of putting a cap on the price per se.
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 4:55:33 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
I think what we need are pedestrian communities where you can live a week on foot without having to drive anywhere - work, school, groceries. Then cars are used for special trips or for weekend entertainment. It is ridiculous that we have designed our geographical layouts so that one needs an automobile to live life. Of course, new fuel sources (like water) are on the way. Try searching "water cars" or "burning seawater". With all the global warming and rising oceans, we will now have more water on hand to use as a fuel.
We have designed them that way because for about 100 years gas has been cheap, and so we could.
This of course might be another benefit of rising fuel costs.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 4:58:41 PM
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Shrommer
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A joke for the person who talked about Americans not wanting to walk across the parking lot:
This modern American drives to the Wal-Mart and drives around looking for a space to park. Not finding one, he goes to this weird spot near the front of the store where hardly no cars ever stop.
He steps out of the car, and falls through a time and space warp which brings him to the Sea of Galilee in the first century, standing next to Jesus.
Jesus says, "Oh, an American! You have all kinds of technological wonders in your culture, so you can probably believe that I can walk on water. I was just going out to the disciples' boat, and if you have faith, you can walk out with me."
The American stares in wide-eyed disbelief.
Jesus says, "Oh, don't worry about a thing. I've done it hundreds of times."
American's jaw drops open!
Jesus says, "What's the matter? Don't you believe that I created water and gravity and I can control the forces of nature however I will?"
The American finally replies. "It's not that, Lord. I believe that we won't sink, just like you say. It's just that that boat must be three hundred yards out to sea, and I've never walked that FAR before!"
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 5:01:58 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
The American finally replies. "It's not that, Lord. I believe that we won't sink, just like you say. It's just that that boat must be three hundred yards out to sea, and I've never walked that FAR before!"
"Can't we just use a jet ski?"
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/23/2008 5:30:20 PM
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mcp
Posts: 109
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quote:
A joke for the person who talked about Americans not wanting to walk across the parking lot:
This modern American drives to the Wal-Mart and drives around looking for a space to park. Not finding one, he goes to this weird spot near the front of the store where hardly no cars ever stop.
He steps out of the car, and falls through a time and space warp which brings him to the Sea of Galilee in the first century, standing next to Jesus.
Jesus says, "Oh, an American! You have all kinds of technological wonders in your culture, so you can probably believe that I can walk on water. I was just going out to the disciples' boat, and if you have faith, you can walk out with me."
The American stares in wide-eyed disbelief.
Jesus says, "Oh, don't worry about a thing. I've done it hundreds of times."
American's jaw drops open!
Jesus says, "What's the matter? Don't you believe that I created water and gravity and I can control the forces of nature however I will?"
The American finally replies. "It's not that, Lord. I believe that we won't sink, just like you say. It's just that that boat must be three hundred yards out to sea, and I've never walked that FAR before!"
Joke or indictment? funny, though.
And the boat was for fishing? I thought fish came in stick form from the frozen section of the grocery. I should know, cause I pass them in my motorized shopping cart every week.
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/24/2008 5:31:09 AM
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Strider33
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I understand how big a problem rising gas prices is. But a price cap would do more harm than good. As others have pointed out, a price cap just causes shortages, and long lines at the pump. Shortages due to price controls go all the way back to the times of the ancient Roman Empire.
I want to mention one sidelight to the whole discussion.
In addition to all the other reasons for gas price hikes, there's the inflation of the money. Since January, the Fed has been agressively increasing the money supply. When there is more money in circulation, but the same amount of goods as before, people bid up the prices.
Gas is one of those things for which demand is fairly inelastic. That means that the price gets bid upward real easy. On the other side, when there is an oversupply, the price gets pushed downward real easy.
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/24/2008 8:07:45 AM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
No one is going to do anything until it is economically feasible to do so, and the government can't simply 'demand' that new technologies be invented.
Do you have smog controls on your vehicles? Car companies wouldn't put these on cars if "left to the market" because it drives up the cost of producing the cars which is not good business sense. Also, hybrids wouldn't exist if the government didn't demand this either.
Japan is demanding that their cars and trucks have a 47 mpg rating. That's 12 mpg more than what Washington is demanding. Maybe that's why the Japanese have taken over in car innovation and design leaving Detroit in the dust.
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/24/2008 12:22:20 PM
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mhfleenor
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A new idea: One day each week, personal vehicles (non commercial) which get less than 20 MPG are banned from the highways. If we reduce demand from fuel inefficient vehicles, the laws of supply and demand might bring some price relief.
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/24/2008 12:48:00 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7384
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Do you have smog controls on your vehicles? Car companies wouldn't put these on cars if "left to the market" because it drives up the cost of producing the cars which is not good business sense. Also, hybrids wouldn't exist if the government didn't demand this either.
First off, there is a difference between regulating something, and putting price caps on something.
Secondly, the biggest thing driving the sales of cars like hybrids is probably fuel prices, which is as it should be.
Thirdly, the government can only demand that industries employ technological strategies that already exist in some form. The government couldn't simply demand that cars compnaies make a certain number of fusion powered vehicles next year.
quote:
Japan is demanding that their cars and trucks have a 47 mpg rating. That's 12 mpg more than what Washington is demanding. Maybe that's why the Japanese have taken over in car innovation and design leaving Detroit in the dust.
Well sure; which is another economic incentive for American car companies -competition.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/24/2008 1:01:09 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10820
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From: Lone Star State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mhfleenor
A new idea: One day each week, personal vehicles (non commercial) which get less than 20 MPG are banned from the highways. If we reduce demand from fuel inefficient vehicles, the laws of supply and demand might bring some price relief.
Oh great. I take it then that you are going to supply that 20% of my income that I miss because you are banning my commute to work. I'm glad you will be able to afford that, for we all know that talk is cheap.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/24/2008 5:50:03 PM
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inthysite
Posts: 632
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quote:
A new idea: One day each week, personal vehicles (non commercial) which get less than 20 MPG are banned from the highways. If we reduce demand from fuel inefficient vehicles, the laws of supply and demand might bring some price relief.
Making fuel efficient vehicles will help in the long run as they become more and more affordable. However, in the short run this won't do a thing. You can't just take property away from people (or can you, eminent domain?).
My point is that the number of new vehicles on the road is a very small percentage of the total vehicles currently in use. Actually the highest percentage of vehicles on the road are 5 years old or older.
I personally cannot afford to purchase a new vehicle and if I could the payments would cost me more than the amount of money I would save in gas.
_____________________________
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Thy sight, O LORD, my rock and my Redeemer - Psalm 19:14
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RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? - 4/24/2008 6:20:02 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2019
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
First off, there is a difference between regulating something, and putting price caps on something.
I went back through all my previous posts but I am still missing the part where I said I was for a price cap. I've said that I think the oil companies always play games with the oil and gas supplies to inflate the price of their product at the detriment of the economy as a whole.
quote:
Secondly, the biggest thing driving the sales of cars like hybrids is probably fuel prices, which is as it should be.
Thirdly, the government can only demand that industries employ technological strategies that already exist in some form. The government couldn't simply demand that cars compnaies make a certain number of fusion powered vehicles next year.
No, but government helps in the creation of these new technologies by expressing the need for it and giving grants to scientists to explore ways of making it a technical reality. A colleague of mine is researching the effect that radiation from nuclear plants has on the steel tanks in the long term to develop new materials to handle this job. Innovation fueled by government funds not the private sector.
quote:
quote:
Japan is demanding that their cars and trucks have a 47 mpg rating. That's 12 mpg more than what Washington is demanding. Maybe that's why the Japanese have taken over in car innovation and design leaving Detroit in the dust.
Well sure; which is another economic incentive for American car companies -competition.
But you missed the point. Do you think the car companies in Japan would be doing this without this mandate from the government? I think not. That's innovation spurred on because of a government mandate.
The car companies in this country whined at the 35 mpg requirement and fought to keep it a reality. Bush and congress kowtowed to them lowering it from the proposed higher mpg requirement. The American public would love their cars to have a higher mpg so the market wants it but the car companies don't. They'd rather just give us Sync or OnStar and call that innovation.
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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