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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/18/2008 7:35:36 PM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbow
I guess he want's to be sure he is safe down in Plains, GA. If he is negotiating I can't think of who else he could be negotiating on behalf of... Plains I reckon because the State Dept is not involved.
I hate that he is from GA, he is such an embarassment. He is such and embaarassment....
An embarrassment? Are you serious? Is it so embarrassing that somebody from your state founded an organization which has led an effort to eradicate guinea worm? They've currently reduced the global infection rate by 99.8%. Take a look at this and tell me he's an embarrassment.
What the heck is with some of you people. On one hand you decry the intrusiveness of government, but then when somebody goes outside the bounds of government bureaucracy to actually try to make some good in this world, you turn your back on him. What more do you want?
-Dan.
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It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/18/2008 9:00:58 PM
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relady
Posts: 970
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From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
This is the man that removed the Shaw of Iran and ushered in the brutal reign of radical Islam in the middle east. Oh, please, Carter had nothing to do with that except that he gave the Shah assylum. I doubt that would have happened had he been in collusion with the radicals. Sheesh.
He wasn't the best Prez we've ever had, but he certainly wasn't the worst either. At least he was honest - in all areas of his life.
quote:
If Obama gets elected, I'll offer 2:1 odds that he's a one-term president. I hope you're wrong but i wouldn't bet against you on that one. 
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/19/2008 1:11:56 AM
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GroupW
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Dan-
Thanks for stepping up to defend a fellow Christian. He has done a lot of fine, fine work.
BT
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/19/2008 7:37:31 AM
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SteveSund
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
There is a law that covers these actions of Mr. Carter.
The Logan Act.
It's time to use it.
I doubt that the Administration would benefit from prosecuting a former President under a law that may not be Constitutional and has never been used to prosecute anyone. The CRS has a good analysis of the law. Frankly, I agree with the court in Waldron v. British Petroleum Co., 231 F. Supp. 72 (S.D.N.Y. 1964). The law is too vague.
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/19/2008 6:06:12 PM
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relady
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quote:
Thanks for stepping up to defend a fellow Christian. He has done a lot of fine, fine work. Yes, he has indeed. And while I do love Mr. Carter and support his work and efforts, I do question the wisdom of this visit..... 
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/19/2008 6:17:21 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
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I have to thank Mr Carter. He came along as president when I was at a young, impressionable age. His handiwork in the office of the presidency helped to make me the conservative I am today. Thank you for at least that much, Mr. Carter.
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John Galt '08
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/20/2008 11:07:35 AM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
Thanks for stepping up to defend a fellow Christian. He has done a lot of fine, fine work. Yes, he has indeed. And while I do love Mr. Carter and support his work and efforts, I do question the wisdom of this visit.....
America has never negotiated with terrorists, so at the very least, this visit might give us some idea of what happens when people talk with terrorists.
I don't think Carter's visit legitimizes Hamas. Generally, if you get a visit from Carter, it means that everybody else is so ticked off that you really have nobody else to talk with.
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/20/2008 11:09:03 AM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
Generally, if you get a visit from Carter, it means that everybody else is so ****ed off that you really have nobody else to talk with.
With this I can agree.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/20/2008 11:18:22 AM
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relady
Posts: 970
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quote:
I don't think Carter's visit legitimizes Hamas. Generally, if you get a visit from Carter, it means that everybody else is so ticked off that you really have nobody else to talk with. Ha Ha Ha! LOL, no kidding. However, the fact that he is willing to visit and talk rationally with people no one else will talk to speaks volumes about the kind of person he is. I am still thinking this visit may be questionable, but I guess we'll see.
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/21/2008 8:21:58 AM
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stamper_ben
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Carter said recently "In a democracy, I realize you don't need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels, When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that's the dictator, because he speaks for all the people."
Jimmy's World in the WSJ.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/21/2008 8:57:25 AM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Carter said recently "In a democracy, I realize you don't need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels, When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that's the dictator, because he speaks for all the people."
Jimmy's World in the WSJ.
The author's "charitable" explanation of that quote sounds the most plausible to me.
-Dan.
_____________________________
It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/22/2008 9:24:13 AM
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cybrjewls
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Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called the sons of the Living God. I tell you settle a matter with your adversary ahead of time before he takes you to court. For Solomon said something like: you may not like the ruling that you receive if the matter comes before me, the ruling will be final. How much more scary will the ruling from God be, when a matter gets brought into His Court? I tell you that some will not get out of jail, until they pay back the last penny. For Christ taught: You wicked servant, I forgave you all of that debt that you owed me, and you held all these debts against your neighbor and beat them down when they owed you very little. You were the 'chosen' people of God and had eternity with Christ Jesus. What about these? Some, instead, chose a better Country: The New Jerusalem Holy City which God has hidden in the hearts of peoples. Some Country is worth Living and 'dying' for. For greater love has no one than this: that they lay down their lives for their Bretheren.
Some could realize that God had prophesied concerning a people, long ago, that their hand would be against everyone and everyone's hand against them. Also, when they get restless; they will break the yoke of Jacob from off of their necks as has happened before in history during the Ottoman Empire and the Crusades.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MyCatSmokey2006
Former President Jimmy Carter met another top Hamas official Thursday in a Cairo hotel and planned to meet more officials in Syria Friday, drawing the ire of dozens of U.S. lawmakers.
Sen. Joseph Lieberman, I-Conn., told FOX News that "at best, President Carter is being naive" in trying to negotiate with avowed terrorists. "There is a long list of people who thought they could reason with dictators and killers, going back to Neville Chamberlain and Hitler in the 1930s, but it has been shown to be absolutely wrong."
Rep. Sue Myrick, R-N.C., told FOX News that she advocates revoking Carter's passport and supports a measure to withdraw all federal funding from his Georgia-based institution, the Carter Center.
LINK
I think that not only should his passport be revoked, but also his U.S. citizenship. If he were an ordinary citizen instead of a former president, he'd be tried for treason.
< Message edited by ..... -- 4/22/2008 12:56:52 PM >
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/22/2008 10:15:48 PM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
I don't think Carter's visit legitimizes Hamas. Generally, if you get a visit from Carter, it means that everybody else is so ticked off that you really have nobody else to talk with.
So in other words, whether or not it's right to disparage him, he plays a necessary role in the world- especially when governments refuse to negotiate with terrorists.
I don't think that talking has ever really hurt anybody, and we can hardly say that Jimmy's visit does any damage by legitimizing Hamas. Jimmy's met with much worse world leaders (and I would argue that Bush's visit to the Saudi royal family was as bad as anyone Carter's ever visited), and I'm sure he'd agree to meet with anyone if he thought it might improve the situation somewhere in the world.
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/22/2008 10:45:14 PM
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GroupW
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"Blessed are the peacemakers" is one verse that comes to mind.
BT
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/22/2008 11:06:37 PM
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rabstark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
I don't think that talking has ever really hurt anybody, and we can hardly say that Jimmy's visit does any damage by legitimizing Hamas. Jimmy's met with much worse world leaders (and I would argue that Bush's visit to the Saudi royal family was as bad as anyone Carter's ever visited), and I'm sure he'd agree to meet with anyone if he thought it might improve the situation somewhere in the world.
Tell that to the Czechs in 1938. Talking hurt them quite a bit. And in this case, what did it accomplish? Carter leaves gushing about how conciliatory Hamas is, only to have them turn around the next day and basically say "belated April fool!, we don't want a real cease-fire after all!" As usual, Carter believes everything the bad-guys tell him and comes off looking like an idiot, which reflects badly on the US government because a lot people outside the US seem to think that because he's a former president, he somehow continues to represent the US rather than just representing his own desire to create a legacy of something more than being the most useless president of the 20th century.
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Romans 10:1-2
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/23/2008 9:05:43 AM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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Oh, the perfect person for the job because he did OOOooohh so well when he was in office.
*chokes*
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/23/2008 9:17:09 AM
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RichLP
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If merely "negotiating" with terrorists is reprehensible, then the government of the United States should be morally censored by you folks just as you are doing to Jimmy Carter. The US government has not only negotiated, but worked with, abetted, and assisted groups that have been identified as "terrorists."
In other words, if you're going to demonstrate moral indignation, don't be selective about it because of who's involved.
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/23/2008 9:17:58 AM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rabstark
Tell that to the Czechs in 1938.
Sure thing. Talking or no, they would have been invaded by Germany because Chamberlain didn't want to do anything. Chamberlain's decision to at least talk- rather than do nothing at least may have delayed the invasion of Poland.
Had Chamberlain done absolutely nothing- not even talked- the war would have started sooner and lasted longer. At least talking was doing something.
Apparently, the US doesn't want to do anything when it comes to the Israel-Palestine situation.
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 4/23/2008 12:23:56 PM >
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/23/2008 10:42:44 AM
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stamper_ben
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But alas, all that talk was all for naught.
Carter-Hamas meeting achieved nothing: Palestinians
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/23/2008 11:59:43 AM
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mcp
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quote:
If merely "negotiating" with terrorists is reprehensible, then the government of the United States should be morally censored by you folks just as you are doing to Jimmy Carter. The US government has not only negotiated, but worked with, abetted, and assisted groups that have been identified as "terrorists."
In other words, if you're going to demonstrate moral indignation, don't be selective about it because of who's involved.
The problem with this, statement is that you make a false association with what your opponents on this thread believe. The issue here is authority and subversion of US official protocol.
For most conservatives, if the function of the federal government is for anything, it is for foreign relations and a common defense [right or wrong]. There may be other methods, but this is the best structure in our eyes; just like our fallible courts system.
Yes, we have always used the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" strategy because the principle of beating the "evil" at hand was of immediate concern. We have also generally paid or bribed the middle east region to appease their relations with us; happened during the end of the 1st Barbary wars for example. We worked with Stalin in WW2, because without him, post 40s would be a wholly different world of struggles than the cold war. There was anamous for stalin even among the allies' leaders; but what could be done?
Both strategies almost always come back to bite the US in the rear, but in the fog of foreign relations, we weigh the odds and move forward with the plan.
To turn around your (and others) false analogy with another general argument---
I find it amazing that more liberal-leaning individuals cannot find common ground or the ability to have a diplomatic "summit" with their political adversaries here in the relative safety of America (note the filibuster and lack of bipartisanship in Congress; this doesn't surprise Conservatives that either side would use this tactic). Yet, the Carter types think that a logical discussion with overseas dictators will sway the heart or that their proposal will be considered fair by both parties soon enough. I guess the zealous, polarizing obstinence of conservatives is just not persuaded by logic and has to be shouted down and/or ignored. What if by these actions, conservatives send out a video tape stating that due to this marginalization in the Westernized/liberalized institutions, we are going to lash out due to our victimization? Would you come meet with us then to feel our pain? Will we get a seat in the human rights council of the UN with equal vote?
The reality is that, yes, we (US govt) do have plans on discussions/summits with all heads of state. But principles and strategies are weighed in on the timing and approaches used in all situations. As for Bush talking to the Saudi royals- one, Bush is head of state with authority to represent the US in this way; two, the Saudis have issues and can be dangerous, but their history with the US and colonial powers of Europe proves them a promise of help in our struggle to bring peace to the middle East. Yes, oil figures into the strategy; it has since the late 1800s.
I see it foolishness to assume that discussing concessional arrangements with certain leaders at any place, any time always equals the work of a peacemaker. How should we define peacemaker?- I don't believe it easy (after all, verses in Rom 13 complicates the turn-the-other-cheek-of-others deductions), but due to the principles and strategies needed to bring peace, phrases like "Peace through strength", "Peace through deterrence" and "war, in order to preserve the peace" should be considered imho.
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/23/2008 4:53:57 PM
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AmazedByMercy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
Oh, the perfect person for the job because he did OOOooohh so well when he was in office.
Perhaps he wasn't the best president we have ever had - okay, change that to absolutely he wasn't the best president we have ever had. We can't be "our brother's keeper" - oh wait, yes we can and we are called to do that. However, I say if you know that your brother is a drunk, and you are pretty sure he will show up at the White House soused, perhaps you should stay out of the White House yourself. I will admit that the Carter family was good for more than a few chuckles - "The Grin Wins," I believe was one headline after the election.
Has anyone out there taken a trip to Plains, GA recently? I have and believe me, there's a lot he could do there. The townsfolk there seem to be so proud of Jimmy. I'm not knocking the good folks of Plains because they are truly hospitable people. He needs to either just retire in Plains or build more houses in the U.S. where he is NEEDED.
All of that history aside, as a former president, aren't there bodyguards, etc. who are assigned to a former president? If so, aren't they paid by taxpayers' dollars? If so, no one asked me if I wanted to fund this ridiculous trip. If Jimmy wants to take it on himself to "talk" then by all means go for it - we do have freedom of speech. But that doesn't mean that we have to foot the bill.
< Message edited by AmazedByMercy -- 4/23/2008 5:15:17 PM >
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/23/2008 5:24:08 PM
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coleel
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I believe Mr Carter may be a bit mentally unstable. Combine that with being anti-semitic and you have a disoriented man that can cause a lot of misery for the innocent citizens of Israel, both Jewish and Arab.
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/23/2008 5:31:00 PM
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rabstark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: coleel
I believe Mr Carter may be a bit mentally unstable. Combine that with being anti-semitic and you have a disoriented man that can cause a lot of misery for the innocent citizens of Israel, both Jewish and Arab.
While Carter is anti-Israel at best, anti-semitic at worst, I think at this point his over-riding goal is to re-invent his legacy. I find it interesting that his interest in being a globetrotting private diplomat began shortly after Richard Nixon died. Nixon managed to reinvent his on legacy pretty effectively by doing the same thing... The difference is that Nixon was actually good at it, and he always made sure that his diplomatic efforts were pursued with the knowledge and approval of whomever the current administration was, rather than trying his level best to undermine whomever happens to be in office at the time (Carter pulled similar stunts to this one during the Clinton administration).
_____________________________
Romans 10:1-2
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RE: JIMMY CARTER'S NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!! - 4/23/2008 5:35:31 PM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rabstark
While Carter is anti-Israel at best, anti-semitic at worst, I think at this point his over-riding goal is to re-invent his legacy. I find it interesting that his interest in being a globetrotting private diplomat began shortly after Richard Nixon died. Nixon managed to reinvent his on legacy pretty effectively by doing the same thing... The difference is that Nixon was actually good at it, and he always made sure that his diplomatic efforts were pursued with the knowledge and approval of whomever the current administration was, rather than trying his level best to undermine whomever happens to be in office at the time (Carter pulled similar stunts to this one during the Clinton administration).
I don't see why Carter has to reinvent his legacy. He already has an excellent one. His efforts helped America become more fuel-efficient and in better shape to deal with food crises, prevented millions of abortions, and helped Israel secure peace with a neighboring country for the first time in its history.
Some of his activities seem to be- at least from his perspective- a logical extension of the work he did in office.
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