RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out adult son for refusing to goto church?
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[Poll]
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Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adult son for refusing to goto church?
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| I don't know. |
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Total Votes : 79
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(last vote on : 5/5/2008 12:34:43 PM)
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 9:25:13 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1100
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Renegotiation is on a different planet from what has been put forth by some here... That entails both parties coming to an agreement on the changes...
John
no it doesn't. the party in charge can simply give notice of rule change. if in a legally binding situation there would likely be a rule about how much notice.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 9:29:25 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2shaye
I disagree. If mom, for ANY REASON feels the need to renegotiate, or whatever words you want to use - change the rules, I believe she can! If the son does not agree with the new rules, he can move out!
That concept tends to run over the word renegotiate since that word would include both parties...
And like I have said before she's not the final authority,(well she shouldn't be) in the house, the word of God is and I believe given the OP, not a revised version she wrong to change the agreement... As well I don't believe it the prudent thing to do given what I believe to be her desire... And there is the idea of who is held to higher standard, the believe or the un-believer...
And so I don't seem one sided... All things considered the son should go to church(of course, well more so he should follow the word of God...) and be his own words he's not...
Even so, each person has to answer for their actions...
quote:
We've posted pages and pages (especially you, John)
Why thank you ;)
quote:
about this when it's really not that deep of an issue.
Depends on what issue we are talking about...
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Mom wants him to go to church, he doesn't want to = he needs to leave or suck it up and go! Why is there so much discussion about this?
Er.... You seem to have left out the part where they(not just him, or her) negotiated that he didn't have to go to church to live there... While you and others might not consider that a matter of consequence I do...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 9:36:47 PM
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2shaye
Posts: 5408
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: So. Cal.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Er.... You seem to have left out the part where they(not just him, or her) negotiated that he didn't have to go to church to live there... While you and others might not consider that a matter of consequence I do...
John
John, I'm just not following you. All I can do is compare it to my own situation. If I wanted to change the rules for my adult son I can. It's then up to him whether or not he wants to CONTINUE to live here. The situation MAY have changed for this particular family. WE DON'T KNOW because we are only getting one side!
I also don't get what on earth this has to do with mom being a Christian or not! She's making a new rule! So what? He can stay and abide by it or, for the zillionth time HE CAN MOVE OUT!!!!
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 9:38:10 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Renegotiation is on a different planet from what has been put forth by some here... That entails both parties coming to an agreement on the changes...
John
no it doesn't. the party in charge can simply give notice of rule change. if in a legally binding situation there would likely be a rule about how much notice.
Given THEY had negotiations in the first place I beg to differ... The word renegotiation infers both parties working something out, not one acting unilaterally. And we are not simply talking about a rule but a condition that was discussed and agreed upon, a pivotal one.
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 9:41:41 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1100
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an agreement can end. one party can say time for a change, or i want out.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 9:55:22 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2shaye
John, I'm just not following you. All I can do is compare it to my own situation.
I am taking the OP at face value... Something I have been told to do by the leadership of this forum in the past... Stick to the OP...
quote:
If I wanted to change the rules for my adult son I can. It's then up to him whether or not he wants to CONTINUE to live here.
Certainly your perogative, but God's word is the supreme authority on all things...
quote:
The situation MAY have changed for this particular family. WE DON'T KNOW because we are only getting one side!
What could have change other than the mother now, after saying it's not a condition that the son must attend church in order to live there...
quote:
I also don't get what on earth this has to do with mom being a Christian or not! She's making a new rule! So what?
It's about accountability... Christians are more accountable for their actions… Higher standards…
In my view it's not simply making a new rule... You can break it down to that, but it's more and it's not the same as your situation by you own admission.
quote:
He can stay and abide by it or, for the zillionth time HE CAN MOVE OUT!!!!
She can stay and abide by what she said... Let your yes be yes and your no be no...
Yes... He could and should move out, but that doesn't equate to the actions of the mother being right...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 9:56:53 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
an agreement can end. one party can say time for a change, or i want out.
Yes they can, but there are generally consequences for doing so...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 10:47:50 PM
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29redballoons
Posts: 675
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From: Georgia
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...and the consequences here can be...boom, he moves out. In simple black and white...if you don't like the rules of the house you live in, leave.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 11:00:41 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 29redballoons
...and the consequences here can be...boom, he moves out. In simple black and white...if you don't like the rules of the house you live in, leave.
The situation in this thread isn't that simple...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/22/2008 6:40:45 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2944
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From: just north of Florida
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Actually, if they really want to bring the law in you might be surprised, it is not so simple. In Georgia we are finding out that a simple verbal roommate agreement may require an official eviction notice and up to 60 days for removal. Now, the parties can take care of this in a friendly manner but if they bring the law in, it gets more complicated.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/22/2008 8:17:17 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6608
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
I like this one more... I am the Lord, I change not, therefore the sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Just so we are clear on this one, do you consider yourself so omniscient and holy that you have no need to change your mind ever; that you are always on the same wavelength as God?
If so, then words fail me...
Are you really asking me this, or is this just a game?
Sure, I want to know your answer. You keep making the absurd assertion that Christians and/or Christian parents should never change their mind because doing so makes them a liar-liar-pants-on-fire hypocrite of the worst kind. Then you quote a verse about God's character being unchanging.
Unless you are just posting for effect and have no point, in which case you can ignore the question and I'll ignore your posts.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/22/2008 9:28:53 AM
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phreddy
Posts: 278
Joined: 3/28/2007
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John,
So how long do you think his mother is required to allow him to live there based on their verbal agreement? What happens if her husband's job is relocated? Does he have to quit and stay in the same house because Zedd's mother promised he could live there? When she is 70 years old and need to move to a nursing home, can she sell the house to help pay for her care or does she have to keep it and allow Zedd to live because of a verbal agreement she made 40 years ago?
According to the Uniform commercial code any aggrement that last over 1 year has to be in writing to be enforcable. Don't you think that there is some time frame/effort that the mom could make that would relieve her obligation under her promise? I don't belive she must provide Zedd with shelter for the rest of her life based on a verbal agreement. From what I can ascertain she has made a reasonable effort to follow through on their agreement. If it were me, I would allow him to fininsh the school year under the previous agrrement, but he would need to abide by the new rules after that or find a new place.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/22/2008 10:34:38 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
You keep making the absurd assertion that Christians and/or Christian parents should never change their mind because doing so makes them a liar-liar-pants-on-fire hypocrite of the worst kind.
I never said, "they should never change their mind..." Those are your words... What you are posting is clearly false and you're attributing to me... I have made it a point to stick to the OP so you for you to say what you did means one of two things... You haven't read all my posts, or you are doing it on purpose, either way it's your problem and it not right...
quote:
Then you quote a verse about God's character being unchanging.
Yes a verse about God, certaintly not myself... I trust in God because of verses like that...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/22/2008 12:00:28 PM
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P31W
Posts: 3003
Joined: 6/13/2005
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My son moved out not long after he turned 18.
I don't tell him "anything". He is an adult and makes is own decisions. He is able to do this because he pays his own bills.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/22/2008 1:01:26 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phreddy
John,
So how long do you think his mother is required to allow him to live there based on their verbal agreement?
Whatever the time is they agreed on, apart from that I believe there is a time limit within reason... School year, degree, and or something along those lines...
quote:
What happens if her husband's job is relocated? Does he have to quit and stay in the same house because Zedd's mother promised he could live there?
Common sense would dictate the agreement would follow them to the next house, right?
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When she is 70 years old and need to move to a nursing home, can she sell the house to help pay for her care or does she have to keep it and allow Zedd to live because of a verbal agreement she made 40 years ago?
I wouldn't think so... Zedd should be out of school by then, and if not she would probably have just cause to remove him for slacking off... I figure the agreement is centered around him going to school to live there... Pretty much the same offer I was given...
quote:
According to the Uniform commercial code any aggrement that last over 1 year has to be in writing to be enforcable. Don't you think that there is some time frame/effort that the mom could make that would relieve her obligation under her promise?
Whatever they agreed upon first and foremost, after that I would have to say the school year or till he get's his degree... Given she allowed him to stay in the first place she mustbelieve as well that education has some importance...
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I don't belive she must provide Zedd with shelter for the rest of her life based on a verbal agreement.
Never do I and I have no argued for the above... My point has always been centered around the agreement as it pertains to him not having to go to church to live there... Whatever they agreed to apart from that is of no interest of me for the most part...
quote:
From what I can ascertain she has made a reasonable effort to follow through on their agreement.
How is changing what is arguably the most pivotal point of their agreement making a reasonable effort to follow through on their agreement?
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If it were me, I would allow him to fininsh the school year under the previous agrrement, but he would need to abide by the new rules after that or find a new place.
That's a lot more resonable than my way or the highway...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/22/2008 1:08:22 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1100
Status: offline
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what if the disharmony has become life threatening to her?
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/22/2008 1:45:59 PM
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psende
Posts: 86
Joined: 7/5/2005
From: The Land of Sky Blue Waters
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So, lets consider another scenario.
Suppose mom wanted Zeddy home so bad, she agreed to allow him to bed his girlfriend as well as not go to Church. Would she then be allowed to have a change of heart and change the agreed upon conditions?
My guess is that most here, (not just a majority) would demand that mom be allowed to change the rules.
Its her house, its her rules. Zedd will survive on his own and should make like a tree and get outa there.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/22/2008 1:49:31 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5693
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: psende
So, lets consider another scenario.
Suppose mom wanted Zeddy home so bad, she agreed to allow him to bed his girlfriend as well as not go to Church. Would she then be allowed to have a change of heart and change the agreed upon conditions?
My guess is that most here, (not just a majority) would demand that mom be allowed to change the rules.
And another, maybe the guy's religion which he will not share share with us includes sacrificing chickens and playing drums all night. That chicken blood is hard for a loving mom to clean up every morning.
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
< Message edited by rcjames -- 4/22/2008 4:00:07 PM >
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/22/2008 1:50:47 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1115
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SovereignisHe:
quote:
JimboFletch: You keep making the absurd assertion that Christians and/or Christian parents should never change their mind because doing so makes them a liar-liar-pants-on-fire hypocrite of the worst kind.
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SovereignisHe: I never said, "they should never change their mind..."
Quoting you:
quote:
What biblical right do the parents have to change the agreement? If they can change this agreement could they not renege on other agreements?
The laws about Christians breaking agreements they make stand and do not change...
That and his parents have no understanding that they are beaking God's law by going back on their word...
A Christian going back on their word is breaking God's law... And in the big picture who is held more accountable? The parent claiming Christ or the child who doesn't not going to church?
Breaking one's word is evil as well... I doubt the mother would wish to deal with the consequences of breaking an agreement back in the day when one could stone their children...
How they work it out is between them, but the IDEA that a CHRISTAIN can simply go back on their word without consequences is a fallacy...
Yes they do... Yet what is right and just is always the same, as well what is wrong and unjust... And that is written in the Word of God and cannot be revoked.
I don't see that you've allowed any parent to change their minds and change the rules in those comments.
You've been hit with your own logic several times and have come up short in your answers. First you say it's never okay to change a living agreement. But while you are still arguing that it's not okay for this particular mother - who's side of the story you don't even know - to change the rules [sin!! sin!!], you have conceded in post #277 that it IS okay to change the rules under circumstances that YOU don't like or approve of [not sin! not sin!!].
So which is it?? Where is this magic line you are drawing to determine right and wrong, sin and not sin?? If you're going to turn a living arrangement into a signed-in-blood contract with God Himself, then you should be consistent in your judgment.
In the future, if you agree to allow someone to live with you, then you had better allow them to stay for the duration of the agreement no matter what. Unexpected behavior you didn't account for - which could be anything from drugs in the basement to causing discord or eating you out of house and home - should make no difference whatsoever because you have determined living arrangements to be a non-negotiable contract that no one is allowed to change. You need to live under the same judgment you've put someone else under.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 4/22/2008 2:01:48 PM >
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