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I'm not sure in what context Obama made his remarks....but I always thought fairness in America meant that any one, regardless of who they are or their background, could advance up the economic latter if they applied themselves (just as Obama himself has done). I thought fairness meant that CEO's would re-invest in their companies and their workers to ensure every one benefits from a company's success. In this age of coroporate greed and the sense that companies owe nothing to their home communities, states or even country, I can see how many people think America is loosing her economic fairness.

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ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Maybe not, but the Marxists sure have attached themselves to American liberalism and are having an influence on it.

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The fascists have attached themselves to American conservatism and are having an influence on it.

Both Marxism and Fascism as an ideology are dead, for the most part. They are both failed ideologies that don't work, and it is highly unlikely that either will take control of a major western power again.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

Who is a fascist in mainstream American conservatism?

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

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ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Maybe not, but the Marxists sure have attached themselves to American liberalism and are having an influence on it.

The fascists have attached themselves to American conservatism and are having an influence on it.

Both Marxism and Fascism as an ideology are dead, for the most part. They are both failed ideologies that don't work, and it is highly unlikely that either will take control of a major western power again.

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Who is Marxist in mainstream liberalism? Is there anyone out there that is claiming that the US should become a dictatorial federally-managed economy?

And don't cop out and say, "But there's people who want to raise taxes and strengthen welfare!" If you do that, I'm allowed to point to numerous individuals on the right who believe that abridging constitutional freedoms is acceptable.

I don't think you can point out a mainstream politician who out-and-out advocates turning us into a true Marxist/Stalinist state. The most you can do is find people who want to do things that Marxists might want to do, and if you do that, I'll come up with Conservatives who advocate things Fascists might want to do.

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ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
The fascists are actually attaching themselves to the liberal side of the aisle as evidenced in 400 kids taken into "protective" custody in Texas.

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ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

Taking kids away from their families with no proof of abuse is in no way moral.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
If you read through Obama’s biographies (which I related to actually in a number of ways, when he talks about his disaffected youth and the people he spent his time with) he talks a lot about class, the ‘narrative’ of his life, and his participation in organizations that are devoted to those struggles. Unlike me, he really seems not to have rejected those notions.

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

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ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

Taking kids away from their families with no proof of abuse is in no way moral.

Dude, some of these "kids" are 14 year-old girls married to 64 year-old men.

You, some NAMBLA members, and a few cult members are the only people angry about what happened here. Besides that, these marriages were illegal.

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ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
I do not want to take the thread off course, but for you to link me with the likes of NAMBLA is beyond the pale and offensive.

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I do agree that polygamy here in Texas is illegal and needed to be addressed. But the force brought against these families (for that IS what they are) was fascist in its nature. The social services do-gooders went too far.

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This is about child molestation.

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So in other words, you're saying he "sounds like a Marxist."

Fascism ultimately boils down to the concept that it's ok to sacrifice personal freedoms for the good of the state, and in all honesty, we see that at work with many Republicans. Sadly, we see many fascist ideas being floated around on these forums on a regular basis. Indeed, people here have advocated the use of torture on detainees who we don't know are guilty. (As a matter of fact, many of the detainees people here wanted to torture were finally released after it was determined they were innocent bystanders picked up by bounty hunters who wanted to make money more than catch terrorists) If this isn't sacrificing individual rights for "the greater good", I don't know what is.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
I think you are confusing 'sacrificing personal freedoms' with advancing government powers for the protection of the citizens of that state. The fact that the government monitors overseas calls for the sake of preventing terorism doesn't in any way limit my 'freedom'.

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Saying there's a difference between advancing government powers and weakening individual freedoms is sort of like saying "We're not making daytime shorter- we're just making nighttime longer."

If the government is bigger than it needs to be, it ultimately reduces civil liberties.

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The last sentence I agree with wholeheartedly...which is why reducing the size of government should be everyone's goal.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
The last sentence I agree with wholeheartedly...which is why reducing the size of government should be everyone's goal.

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The last sentence I agree with wholeheartedly...which is why reducing the size of government should be everyone's goal.

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Exactly, and the biggest component of government's size is the scope of what it can and cannot do. It's important to limit what the government can do to businesses, but it's even more important to limit what the federal government can do to people.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
Well, I don't think he reads Das Kapital every night, but I would say on the spectrum of Presidential candidates that ever ran, he is about as close as it gets.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
Part of the reason I recognize this is because I was a Marxist in my youth,

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If the government is bigger than it needs to be, it ultimately reduces civil liberties

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ORIGINAL: colliefan

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If the government is bigger than it needs to be, it ultimately reduces civil liberties

Then why does Barry want to expand government? Collect wind-fall profits from the evil oil companies. Prevent mortgage companies from foreclosing on homeowmers and force them to renogiate established legal contracts?

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Actually, what the government does best, indeed, what it's supposed to do, is protect us from enemies without and within, and adminster justice to those that would harm us. Beyond that, it should let us be to live out our lives as we best see fit.

Incidentally, I ran across this NYTs op-ed that reflects my feelings vis a vis Obama's 'Marxism'.

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If the government needs to violate human rights or civil liberties to do its job, then maybe we should reconsider the size and scope of its job.

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ORIGINAL: colliefan

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If the government needs to violate human rights or civil liberties to do its job, then maybe we should reconsider the size and scope of its job.

But according to both Barry and Hill, the unborn have no rights. Even a near full-term baby can have her skull crushed and killed.