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[Poll]
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War in Iraq
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| We are in Iraq because of oil |
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| We are in Iraq to liberate the less fortunate |
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| We are in Iraq to protect Israel |
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| We are in Iraq to stop terrorists |
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| We are in Iraq for some other reason |
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Total Votes : 439
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(last vote on : 12/4/2008 4:41:44 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 8/27/2008 11:54:44 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2199
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Al Gore would be more fun...
Al Gore would definately get the water situation fixed. I can't imagine him living in a desert with so few trees for very long without irrigating. ; )
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: War in Iraq - 9/3/2008 10:09:42 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1578
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
I was discouraged to see only 34% get this
I believe that if Al Gore would have won in 2000 Iraq would be a super fortress for terrorists and we would have seen many more attacks here at home and suicide bombers would still be going on in Israel. Or a worse case scenario, Israel would have declared war on Iraq (or vice versa) creating an inferno of mass war in the middle east.
If you remember back in 2003 after we invaded, the media , and liberals, and liberal media, was repeating over and over again that we would see an increase in terror activity here at home because the terrorists would be mad at us.  Well just the opposite has occurred and we have experienced safety under President Bush's watch.
I AM SO THANKFUL THEY WERE WRONG AND BUSH DID THE RIGHT THING!!
What YOU believe about what Al Gore would or would not have done is irrelevant because Al Gore was not the president on the morning of September 11, 2001 or on the evening of March 19, 2003.
You are apparently one of the many people in our country who swallowed the claims made by the Bush administration during the run-up to war between the summer of 2002 and early 2003.
Bush has already openly stated that Saddam Hussein had NOTHING to do with 9/11, and the same verdict has been issued by investigations conducted by the United States – Saddam Hussein’s government and Al-Qaeda never had a collaborative partnership.
Iraq a super fortress for terrorists? This is a claim absolutely out of touch with historical facts, since Saddam Hussein’s government was secular; the Baath were notorious for persecuting Islamic radicals. Osama Bin Laden publicly disdained and hated Hussein and considered him to be an infidel. In fact, Bin Laden condemned the 1990 invasion of Kuwait and at the time, he even called for a holy Muslim army to liberate Kuwait from the Iraqi armed forces.
Suicide bombers in Israel do not attack because of Iraq. They attack because of what they consider to be extremely unjust policies by the State of Israel. Whether or not they truly are unjust, suicide bombings are not justifiable. But even if they were, they are not related to Iraq.
You’re lumping everything together and thusly you are guilty of an extremely simplistic way of looking at things.
Furthermore, Iraq would have never attacked Israel, since Israel has a nuclear arsenal and would not have hesitated to use it (and since Iraq had not attacked Israel other than the Scuds launched in 1991). And if Iraq had attacked Israel, Israel would have retaliated mercilessly (and the United States would have assisted Israel). Therefore, you are wrong on this as well.
As for safety here at home – no one wants attacks to happen, but blowback can take other forms. And as for the right thing: since you go by the moniker “letusreason,” reason the following consequences of Bush’s war of aggression against Iraq, a country who never attacked the United States of America:
- 4 million refugees, roughly evenly split between internal and external refugees (out of a population of 25 million Iraqis)
- as of 2006, as per the Lancet report from Britain, 600,000 dead Iraqis
- more than 4 thousand dead US servicepersons
- dozens of thousands of wounded and injured US servicepersons
- Iraqis still lack potable water and electricity 24/7
- Increased Iranian influence in Iraq
- Horrible levels of human suffering
- Women now subject to Sharia law – in the time of Saddam Hussein, women were permitted to attend schools and universities, to hold jobs, and to wear western-style clothing
- Kidnapping, rapes much higher
- an exodus of professionals (doctors, lawyers, engineers) to neighboring Arab states, creating a brain drain that may haunt Iraq’s recovery for many years
- the rise of Islamic extremism in formerly secular Iraq
- A bitter and bloody sectarian civil war which has affected millions of Iraqis and which will take perhaps a generation to heal
- Thousands of widowed women who now have no breadwinner in their homes
And this is “the right thing” that Bush did?
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: War in Iraq - 9/3/2008 10:58:09 AM
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rlj
Posts: 2199
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
And this is “the right thing” that Bush did?
Maybe he agrees with the intense persecution that christians in Iraq have suffered under since the invasion?
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: War in Iraq - 9/3/2008 1:10:16 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1578
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
And this is “the right thing” that Bush did?
Maybe he agrees with the intense persecution that christians in Iraq have suffered under since the invasion?
I wonder if Bush prays about that on Sundays - that is, if he is even aware that Iraq had and still has Christians. Wouldn't shock me if he didn't considering he didn't even know there were 2 major sects within Islam.
And don't forget RLJ that before the invasion, other than when Iraq fought Iran or was under bombings and sanctions (led by you know which superpower), Iraqis enjoyed free schooling up to the college level; they had free medical care; women's rights in Iraq were superior to anything in the rest of the Arab world (not to mention the tolerance given towards Christians and other non-Muslims, as you've pointed out).
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/6/2008 10:11:43 PM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1229
Joined: 3/21/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
I have said from day one and continue to say and believe that the reason we are in war with Iraq is becaue someone Or many people in Iraq were seeking to know the One True God and he chose to answer their prayers. God chose to open up that country so that those who chose to know him could hear the good news of Jesus Christ.
Those 28 million people now have a chance to hear about Christ and have eternal life. They inturn will tell their children and grandchildren about him. Meaning millions more will know how they can have "peace with God".
I do understand the heart to reach out.
Many nations are sending their missionaries to close nations, and they may have easier acess than others nationalities because they have in commom: ethinicity, similarity regarding looks and not "foreigner looks" ; "people person" similar to the cultures ("hot/cold" cultural perceptions), history as a colony not colonizer as many nations still are; politicaly "neutral"as not cause well know "offenses" around the world, their flags do not bring retaliations and etc; known to be good soccer nation, it does open doors. 
The Lord sure has His plans and when we may think "nothing" is going on because we are not seeing great action the way we picture or expect or are used to do mission is because he nature of those nations, it takes time. He is always working and moving different people He called out around the globe.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/6/2008 11:37:40 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2199
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Those 28 million people now have a chance to hear about Christ and have eternal life. They inturn will tell their children and grandchildren about him. Meaning millions more will know how they can have "peace with God".
They probably had a better chance under the Baathist regime since christians were allowed to live in peace under it. Since Sadaam was deposed and the rise of the militias Iraq has lost a majority of its christian population.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/7/2008 3:02:14 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2069
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Thanks for the laugh. I needed that today.
But I notice you can't refute what he said that gave you the aforementioned chuckle...
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/8/2008 9:41:26 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3948
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
Thanks for the laugh. I needed that today.
But I notice you can't refute what he said that gave you the aforementioned chuckle...
See post 5904
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/8/2008 11:44:27 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1958
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
Thanks for the laugh. I needed that today.
But I notice you can't refute what he said that gave you the aforementioned chuckle...
How many times does it have to be refuted?
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/9/2008 8:16:55 AM
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rlj
Posts: 2199
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Interesting, bribes ways are commom in many cultures..bribes expected but the prices there are exhorbitant but expected I think.
What bugs me is I once suggested that instead of taking the 2 trillion dollars or so that it is estimated we will spend on the wars and instead just bought people off so they'd be nice to each other I was ridiculed and told that would never work. As Rush once said SITYS! :P
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/9/2008 9:52:44 AM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1229
Joined: 3/21/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
quote:
ORIGINAL: AdrianaS
quote:
ORIGINAL: TaoPoohBear
A little bit of news about the "Surge" -
How Bush's military chiefs became outsiders
How many people there are in a 15 brigade? Brigades get there by plane, how many planes need to carry a brigade? or by navy vessels, How many brigades fits in a navy vessel ? I guess because they have to carry weapons, and cars and etc they may need to travel with all the equipment together..wow
sorry for asking I am curious and like to know details (if its secret information dont tell, of course.) 
quote:
Surge of cash: Americans send street money to Iraq
Politics & Money, 2 things Bush DOES know.
Glad to see the money at least worked; I'm frankly afraid to look up if it's negatively affected retention & suicides of our troops.
Interesting, bribes ways are commom in many cultures..bribes expected but the prices there are exhorbitant but expected I think. 
Thanks for both links.
How many soldiers are in a U.S. brigade?
Neat Q & A article.
Insofar as supplies - The comments by people at the end (of THIS article) sheds some light on how all this stuff comes in - 07/11/07 GAO criticizes Defense combat supply operations
If I remember correctly, my friend (who's served 2 tours in Iraq) said they took their personnal weapons & body armor on the plane with them but everything else (heavy weapons, Bradleys & tanks + other stuff) was waiting for them in Kuwait.
Have to ask him again about this, just to make sure; If I'm remembering wrong I'll post a correction.
Thank very very much for doing the homework of finding the numbers for me, I did just a single search, was in a rush.
I enjoy a lot to see the details, strategy, # and etc in organized format to better absorve in my brains because I can get short circuit in my brains and not absorve information and than learn, I have add...
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/9/2008 10:15:53 AM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1229
Joined: 3/21/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
Interesting, bribes ways are commom in many cultures..bribes expected but the prices there are exhorbitant but expected I think.
What bugs me is I once suggested that instead of taking the 2 trillion dollars or so that it is estimated we will spend on the wars and instead just bought people off so they'd be nice to each other I was ridiculed and told that would never work. As Rush once said SITYS! :P
And because the infrastructure was all mess up because the war things sure went out of control..for exemple as the governement was brought down what it left as organization struture, nada. And trying to reconstruct from "nothing" sure problematic as local people do take and took advantage as trying to help the USA but sure thing about their own interest not the peoples.
You know it makes very sad indeed because of Iraq losing their basic infra structures, I do guess many nations did have comercial and economic dealings with Iraq. There was a time Brazil (my original country) import 50% of its oil from Iraq (yep, Venezuela neighboor just less than 2%) and we "exchange" for constructing roads there and etc and sold weapons too. Even when oil crises around the world and Iraq went conflits of their own they always make sure Brazil got its oil.
But what I do know that the problem with dealing with Arab nation Iraq was that it mix economics and politics...and othe very much so Bazilian Exterior minister, the pressures Brasil to open an OLP/PLO office in Brazil etc now, I do know many countries as France and Russia were criticized for having their own dealings with Iraq. But still USA do have their own interess dealings going on...but Iraq was not the monster belic country it was played..plus the Iraq people are important, the Iraq people matters.
What I do think is that strategy is needed in many situations and to decide to go to war needs much planning and the help of nations, many nations..if you look at the more than 50 nations against the war is that they may have dealings with Iraq, yes sure not "clean" dealings and sure involved their own interests, still the USA can not criticize because it does the same.
Now, how to involve the military when you have other ways to appraoch the situation? And to use the best military in the world and all high tech stuff and so many etc to patrol and go ways of bribery, is not right at all in my view. But is the way it is now. As everybody else I think troops must come home..and just 8.000 is comming home, better than nothing, I supose.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/11/2008 2:12:05 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10949
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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And who'd a thunk that 60 plus years after WWII we'd still have troops stationed around the world...
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/11/2008 8:16:46 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1522
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
And who'd a thunk that 60 plus years after WWII we'd still have troops stationed around the world...
Huh? Winning a war and having troops stationed are two different things.
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Deb
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/13/2008 10:55:42 PM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 349
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
And who'd a thunk that 60 plus years after WWII we'd still have troops stationed around the world...
Huh? Winning a war and having troops stationed are two different things.
Not to some people.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/19/2008 1:01:00 PM
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AdrianaS
Posts: 1229
Joined: 3/21/2007
Status: offline
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Does anybody know anything about, and maybe a link, what the US Navy and something called "The 4th Fleet" that patrols Latin America, is doing in Brazilian waters, very near by the Petrobras (Brazilian Oil) plataforms? Just read in Brazilian news, that Brazilian President is very worry about the proximity of US Navy vessels to the plataforms and that Brazilian Navy must send vessels to patrol the plataforms and the "Pre-Sal" oil fields. The Brazilian Pres. preocupation is that the oil may be taken away" from Brazil by some "smart move" as the oil is in the ocean an etc..
It is kind of funny imagine the situation, at least into my head as most Brazilian vessels were bought from US Navy, they are old vessels dated maybe the Vietnam and older, I think..I know that because decades ago I had the opportunity to be inside few of them etc. Still have some stuff of US personal inside it, as helmet with a name on it..it was sold with it still inside. 
I'm asking this question here to not have to open a thread just about that and because it involve the US Navy and Oil. Thanks.
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RE: Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign - 9/19/2008 2:12:47 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 554
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AdrianaS
Does anybody know anything about, and maybe a link, what the US Navy and something called "The 4th Fleet" that patrols Latin America, is doing in Brazilian waters, very near by the Petrobras (Brazilian Oil) plataforms? Just read in Brazilian news, that Brazilian President is very worry about the proximity of US Navy vessels to the plataforms and that Brazilian Navy must send vessels to patrol the plataforms and the "Pre-Sal" oil fields. The Brazilian Pres. preocupation is that the oil may be taken away" from Brazil by some "smart move" as the oil is in the ocean an etc..
It is kind of funny imagine the situation, at least into my head as most Brazilian vessels were bought from US Navy, they are old vessels dated maybe the Vietnam and older, I think..I know that because decades ago I had the opportunity to be inside few of them etc. Still have some stuff of US personal inside it, as helmet with a name on it..it was sold with it still inside.
I'm asking this question here to not have to open a thread just about that and because it involve the US Navy and Oil. Thanks.
4/24/08 Navy Reestablishes U.S. 4th Fleet
quote:
No vessels or aircrafts will be permanently assigned to U.S. Fourth Fleet as part of the re-establishment. U.S. Fourth Fleet is an organizational fleet staffed to fulfill a planning and coordination mission.
U.S. Fourth Fleet will be focused on strengthening friendships and partnerships and will have five missions: support for peacekeeping, Humanitarian Assistance, Disaster Relief, traditional maritime exercises, and counterdrug support operations.
http://www.cusns.navy.mil/command%20info.htm
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