Native American Christians? (Full Version)

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glimmerinthedark -> Native American Christians? (4/11/2008 3:22:06 AM)

I've been seeing alot of activity going on within the Native American community. Mainly the Hopi tribe? Or the "Rainbow Warriors"? I see alot of Native Americans are turning to Jesus. They say they believe in the same God Christians do. They believe everything in the Bible that is said. However when I researched further about what they believe, like practicing "earth religion", the "great spirit", that we are part of the earth, and the earth is part of us, ect. It made me kinda go, uhh, I don't know about that. Can anyone enlighten me? I mean they seem like they are really peaceful people. Their music is also extremely calming. I find I can concentrate on God and his word alot better, and feel his peace, when i'm listening to certain songs of their's. Yet, I can't stop thinking that they were somehow fooled into also following new age teachings? Because sometimes when I think about what they believe, and what new agers believe, there seems to be alot of similarity. Anyone know more about them?



cobblestone -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/11/2008 3:41:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: glimmerinthedark

I've been seeing alot of activity going on within the Native American community. Mainly the Hopi tribe? Or the "Rainbow Warriors"? I see alot of Native Americans are turning to Jesus. They say they believe in the same God Christians do. They believe everything in the Bible that is said. However when I researched further about what they believe, like practicing "earth religion", the "great spirit", that we are part of the earth, and the earth is part of us, ect. It made me kinda go, uhh, I don't know about that. Can anyone enlighten me? I mean they seem like they are really peaceful people. Their music is also extremely calming. I find I can concentrate on God and his word alot better, and feel his peace, when i'm listening to certain songs of their's. Yet, I can't stop thinking that they were somehow fooled into also following new age teachings? Because sometimes when I think about what they believe, and what new agers believe, there seems to be alot of similarity. Anyone know more about them?

Just that their traditions are much the same as anyone elses. They see the eagle and are reminded of the strength of the great spirit, seeing an owl they think of his wisdom and that sort of thing. The legends get more intricate and harder to relate to the biblical versions, but just like any aboriginal religion theres a lot of truth and you cant throw the baby out with the bathwater, You need to take the truths and relate them directly to scripture not combine them to make a pagan/christianity.



nativemary -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/11/2008 5:52:24 AM)

Easter Bunny and Santa Claus observed the same day as Christ's resurrection and birth...That is pagan and permitted by many denominations. People observe that as a reminder. No different is it? It seems to me a purer form of worship that pleases the Lord should be considered. I dont' observe those anymore and ashamed to say I ever allowed that to be introduced to my babies...But everyone thinks it is okay...Wrong folks...It is all wrong.



timf -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/11/2008 8:33:56 AM)

Native American Christians?

There is a tribe that was Christian before the Revolutionary War, the Stockbridge Mohican. Their type of Christianity mirrored the community around them, the Puritan. Their church followed the same exclusionary and authoritarian principles such that only a few privileged people could actually be members. This approach did not serve them well just as it failed the New Englanders whose descendants are now some of the most atheistic secularists you can find.

Native culture and tradition resulted from a survival mode of life. The influx of Europeans turned this into a subsistence mode of living by forcing many native people onto reservations. Some native people were helped by those who told them about Jesus, others were bullied into new traditions of "church". It is a shame that "church" and Jesus are so often far apart.

Many native people today try to resurrect old traditions. However, without the connection to the life from which they were drawn, these traditions can seem artificial and even uncomfortably pretentious. Jesus warned His disciples about the danger of hypocrisy (from the Greek word for actor). If we turn from truth to pretense we are in danger of losing our connection with our Lord.

Just as the larger Western society is turning away from Jesus and blending Eastern and secular ideas with Christianity to make this turning more palatable to marginal Christians, the blending of traditional native images with Christian thought, also stands in danger of pretense and leading one away from instead of closer to truth.



cherokeehippie -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/11/2008 5:30:43 PM)

Check out Broken Walls, Jonathan Maracle...Native worship music!!!

http://www.youtube.com/user/brokenwallsFN



cobblestone -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/11/2008 5:36:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cherokeehippie

Check out Broken Walls, Jonathan Maracle...Native worship music!!!

http://www.youtube.com/user/brokenwallsFN

No offence intended but I just don't find that music enlighting or calming. Do you?

I'm quick to add that one of my favorite books is "bury my heart at wounded Knee"



cherokeehippie -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/11/2008 5:38:46 PM)

http://wiconi.com/?cid=595

www.brokenwalls.com
http://firstnationsmonday.com/



cherokeehippie -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/11/2008 5:43:02 PM)

I love it....You didn't hear the words in english, did you??? It's worship to the LORD!! I was on cloud 9 when I went to my first Native christian gathering!!! Actually, there is a cd that you may like better...I'll find the link to it!!

http://www.worshipmusic.com/jlmcd007.html

Listen especially to the song, River of LIFE!!

http://www.worshipmusic.com/jlmcd005.html



cobblestone -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/11/2008 5:47:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cherokeehippie

I love it....You didn't hear the words in english, did you??? It's worship to the LORD!! I was on cloud 9 when I went to my first Native christian gathering!!! Actually, there is a cd that you may like better...I'll find the link to it!!

http://www.worshipmusic.com/jlmcd007.html

Listen especially to the song, River of LIFE!!

http://www.worshipmusic.com/jlmcd005.html

My soundsystem doesn't work so can only listen to utube, sorry



Kath -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/11/2008 9:14:50 PM)

In case some of you have forgotten the OP;

This is the OP, please stick to it.

However when I researched further about what they believe, like practicing "earth religion", the "great spirit", that we are part of the earth, and the earth is part of us, ect. It made me kinda go, uhh, I don't know about that. Can anyone enlighten me? Yet, I can't stop thinking that they were somehow fooled into also following new age teachings? Because sometimes when I think about what they believe, and what new agers believe, there seems to be alot of similarity. Anyone know more about them?

Sincerely
Kath

Please do not comment on this action in the community or send me a PM about it. If you have questions, comments or concerns please email Fritz at community@salemwebnetwork.com allowing time for a reply. Thanks!



SonInMe1 -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/11/2008 9:25:37 PM)

Being simular with God does not make you God.



cherokeehippie -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/11/2008 10:46:53 PM)

By the way, the native worship links I posted are those at Native CHRISTIAN gatherings...the Lord is having Native Believers break into freedom of worshipping Him with Native style worship....like it or not, the traditional english hymns is not the only style of worship to Jesus! I and many Native christians have gone thru healing with Jonathan Maracle's native worship...I prefer my hippie "Enter the WOrship circle" cd's and my native christian worship!! Not southern gospel and stuffy formal hymns. Oh yeah, I love JEwish music, too!!! Especially Arutz 7, many Jewish Israeli songs are set to scripture!!

THe ancient Native, Cherokee(my tribe), and Jewish are very similiar,....I get tired of our faith being so set in traditional southern white cultural ways.. Yes, there is that not of God, but that doesn't mean we are to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are even much more stuff that is not of JEsus, in the mainstream white or european culture that isn't of Him, eitehr!

I wish I was able to go to Israel this year...there is a native chrisitan gathering in Jerusalem this year!! I would love to take my flute and my pine needle baskets and play my flute and sell my baskets on Ben Yehuda St!! (I've been to Israel 4 times!) in Jerusalem....



cherokeehippie -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/11/2008 10:52:15 PM)

An example of 'pagan' white european customs totally not of Jesus, is the fact that many cathedrals in Europe were built over pagan mother goddess sites, and how mother goddess worship was incorporated into the church, especially black madonna worship in France(the real background of the mary magdalene Davinci Code yucko stuff) ...so the europeans are just as much guilty of mixing stuff!!! There is occult symbols in those cathedrals, too!!



SonInMe1 -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/12/2008 8:10:20 AM)

What does culture have to do with...Jesus?

Praise and worship ( music ) is probably individualistic to each church. Wether its a hymn or rock or native american music, it should all edify our Lord. The beat means nothing spiritually.

If Jesus is preached it doesn't matter where or how. All that other stuff...while it may be more comfortable for you....its not important.



cherokeehippie -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/12/2008 8:46:10 AM)

I know,...but some, unfortunately don't believe that, and they believe any other kind of worship to Jesus is to be an anglo white, traditional form,...that's how the Natives were forced to conform to by misguided eurecentric missionaries in the past, causing Natives to feel bad about themselves, inferior, low self esteem, thinking tat white culture was better than native, etc.


In a way, it is IMPORTANT that there is different cultural forms of worship to the LORD Jesus, because God created us all different...He did not create us to all be southern twangy types.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/12/2008 2:01:57 PM)

quote:

anglo white, traditional form,...


I can assure you, us anglo white people worship in many different ways and forms as well. Though, I do understand what you are saying.



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/13/2008 3:58:30 AM)

Okay, there can be a lot of weirdness when you crash a culture with a religion that is not native to it. That is true of Anglo-Caucasian culture just as much as it is with Native American culture. Ever wonder why there is so much emphasis on Tradition in the Church? Victorian England was the birthplace of American Christianity. So now, lets get back to the OP's dilemma.

quote:

However when I researched further about what they believe, like practicing "earth religion", the "great spirit", that we are part of the earth, and the earth is part of us, ect. It made me kinda go, uhh, I don't know about that.
Lets face it... man was made from the dust of the ground. So yeah, we are part of the Earth and the Earth is part of us. That is really simple.

According to the Bible, God is Spirit. Since there are none equal to him, let alone greater... it makes much sense to me that he would be referred to as the Great Spirit. So it's not really THAT weird, just different terminology for the same idea.
quote:

Yet, I can't stop thinking that they were somehow fooled into also following new age teachings? Because sometimes when I think about what they believe, and what new agers believe, there seems to be alot of similarity.
Let us consider that the New Age did not originate the vast majority of their beliefs but rather pulled ideas from many different religions and cultures. So really the similarity that you are noticing happened in the reverse order than you seem to think they did.

Adam



SD456 -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/13/2008 10:38:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cherokeehippie

Check out Broken Walls, Jonathan Maracle...Native worship music!!!

http://www.youtube.com/user/brokenwallsFN


Yeah, someone knows about Broken Walls? I love their worship music. It really helps me in my intercession times especially. But then I've always been partial to Native American drums.



elliemaejune -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/14/2008 12:14:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: glimmerinthedark

I've been seeing alot of activity going on within the Native American community. Mainly the Hopi tribe? Or the "Rainbow Warriors"? I see alot of Native Americans are turning to Jesus. They say they believe in the same God Christians do. They believe everything in the Bible that is said. However when I researched further about what they believe, like practicing "earth religion", the "great spirit", that we are part of the earth, and the earth is part of us, ect. It made me kinda go, uhh, I don't know about that. Can anyone enlighten me?


Sounds like error to me.

There is only one God. He did not send His only Son to preach an "earth religion," or the "great spirit." We are not part of the earth, nor is the earth part of us; we are made in the image of God.

Any religion which does not preach Christ and Him crucified is a false religion.

quote:

I mean they seem like they are really peaceful people. Their music is also extremely calming.


This does not mean that they are worshiping the one true God.

quote:

I find I can concentrate on God and his word alot better, and feel his peace, when i'm listening to certain songs of their's. Yet, I can't stop thinking that they were somehow fooled into also following new age teachings? Because sometimes when I think about what they believe, and what new agers believe, there seems to be alot of similarity. Anyone know more about them?


It they do not believe that we are all sinners, that we are separated from God because of our sin, that the wages of sin is death, that the gift of God is eternal life, and that the shed blood of Jesus cleanses us from all unrighteousness, then it is a false religion.

God loves them and has plans for their lives. That plan requires that they leave behind any false beliefs. This is true of *all* people, regardless of their race or culture.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/14/2008 2:56:57 AM)

While you can worship in many ways, there is only one gospel.



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/14/2008 6:51:27 AM)

quote:

Yeah, someone knows about Broken Walls?
Jonathan Miracle is an awesome individual. I love their cd's as well, because I've always been fascinated by Native American languages. It all sounds like vowels to me, but it is telling a story that is just as complex as Shakespeare. Admittedly, there is a lot of weirdness to be found in legends and such, but the music and languages are really sweet.
quote:

We are not part of the earth, nor is the earth part of us; we are made in the image of God.
In the image of God? Yes......... but let us not forget, "From dust I came, and to dust to I go..." - Job.
quote:

Any religion which does not preach Christ and Him crucified is a false religion.

This does not mean that they are worshiping the one true God.

It they do not believe that we are all sinners, that we are separated from God because of our sin, that the wages of sin is death, that the gift of God is eternal life, and that the shed blood of Jesus cleanses us from all unrighteousness, then it is a false religion.

God loves them and has plans for their lives. That plan requires that they leave behind any false beliefs. This is true of *all* people, regardless of their race or culture.
...................... Which is not under dispute...................
quote:

While you can worship in many ways, there is only one gospel.
......................... which is also not under dispute..................

The question to be answered is whether or not the specific group being referrenced by the OP is worshipping anything other than God. That is the mark of error. So really, there isn't enough information here to make a judgement call on this specific group of people. However I do know several people who are missionaries on Indian Reservations and thre does seem to be the rumblings of an awakening amongst the American Indians. May God pour out the spirit of Wisdom and Revelation on our nation....

Adam



TJStarfire -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/15/2008 12:58:08 AM)

quote:

glimmerinthedark However when I researched further about what they believe, like practicing "earth religion", the "great spirit", that we are part of the earth, and the earth is part of us, ect.


Christians worship the great spirit also, we came from the dust we are flesh and spirit. I believe that when we get to heaven there will be Indians there also. Remember that the beings of heaven are not hung up on labels like some humans are "I AM" is sufficient to them. great spirit, holy spirit, holy ghost wouldn't matter to the real being.



doinkdom -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/15/2008 12:06:47 PM)

Talk about culture and tradition and trying to walk out the Gospel...whew.

My mother is Cherokee. I understand the culture and the traditions.

glimmerinthedark - you might try reading something by Thomas Mails - he actually took the time to engage the culture of several Nations and strived to understand what or who they worshipped. He was quite surprised by much of it being very similar to what happens in many regular old American churches today.

You do have to dig a little deeper to get a true picture of what any sub-group might be worshipping, but can get to a point of recognizing those who are Christian and those who are not.



glimmerinthedark -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/15/2008 5:57:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

Talk about culture and tradition and trying to walk out the Gospel...whew.

My mother is Cherokee. I understand the culture and the traditions.

glimmerinthedark - you might try reading something by Thomas Mails - he actually took the time to engage the culture of several Nations and strived to understand what or who they worshipped. He was quite surprised by much of it being very similar to what happens in many regular old American churches today.

You do have to dig a little deeper to get a true picture of what any sub-group might be worshipping, but can get to a point of recognizing those who are Christian and those who are not.


I know, don't get me wrong everyone. I love their songs, and alot of things about them. There were just a few things that made me a little confused about what they believed. So I came here to see if anyone would know a little more about them.

P.S. I love this song, Ly-O-Lay Ale Loya, it's very calming and nice. http://youtube.com/watch?v=ccGJwivIymI [:D]



Casper22 -> RE: Native American Christians? (4/16/2008 6:19:55 AM)

I had to mark out what you said because it was mixing my words up with yours sorry.............. Hi cobblestone My family are basically Cherokee what stopped me from being full blooded is my mom because her dad is German and Irish her mom my Nana is Full Cherokee as well as my dad and his folks. Now I can only base my opinion on my own experiences and what my Mamaw passed down to me. Mamaw was a very dedicated Cherokee even when she converted to Christianity. Even as a Christian she still refered to God as Grandfather and sometimes would refer to Jesus as the white man who will come from the east. Although Christ obviously wasnt white he still is thought of as a white mans religion by some tribes. Native American religion true Native American religion that is isnt something they where fooled into believing as you seemed to speculate by other people there religion in a sence goes back 1000s of years before the 1st Christians even set foot on American soil. Its steeped in tradition and the spirit realm so to speak. Mamaw believed every living thing had a soul even the rocks were sentient in some way. The Cherokee believe they come from the heavens in a way they consider themselves the 1st star people. There creation stories are absolutely beautiful even though it doesnt sit well with Christianity besides Christianity Native American religion can be considered the 2nd oldest religion at least from my point of view and how I was raised to believe before I was saved. When my mom became a Christian back in my preteen years we werent allowed to be taught in the Native American tradition anymore Mamaw was allowed to tell us the stories and traditions but not as fact when she was saved it was was very hard for her because her traditions that she believed for nearly 60 years where at war with her new found faith. In alot of ways I think some of the things she got into after her conversion was her way of holding onto both natures. She got into extreme Pentacostalism and what I meen by that is she joined a snake handling church in Kentucky. She told my dad one time holding a poisonous snake brings back the wildness of the Cherokee for her. And the speaking in tongues and the shouting and fainting and the frantic worship of her church took her back to the days of the drum circles and powwows. I dont think she regretted her salvation but I think she wished the Cherokee way and the Christian way could somehow coexist with each other. But anyway I dont know if my 2 cents helped but this sort of turned into a novella ; ) I do love my heritage though and honestly I sometimes miss the old days. It was simplistic and uncomplicated. But I will never regret becoming a Christian. Without I would never have survived my moms death. take care my friend casper



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