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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 8:28:36 PM
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betterisoneday
Posts: 175
Joined: 1/10/2008
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My personal opinion, I think one should be just as careful trusting a sex offender as trusting anyone else. The people I have personally known who committed something like that were never found out, so I wouldn't think that someone was alright because they aren't on a list.
If they're attending church it would seem to me that a couple of the older men/women (whichever the person is) should start encouraging and discipling them. I would hope people would accept them at a Bible study, let them ask questions, share their thoughts on whatever the passage is.
As for children, well (my opinion only) I don't like the idea of children's programs at church, no matter how many security steps you take it won't make it impossible for something bad to happen.
Kids run around together outside after service but I'd dare to say that parents/adults would already be keeping an eye on that.
_____________________________
No reserves. No retreat. No regret.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 8:58:34 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3454
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
i'm not condoneing the crime,i just want us as christians to realize because of the media & politicians,they want you to believe that if someone's on the sex offender registry that they must have had sex with a child or their crime was against a child etc.....
Your assumptions are wrong as far as I'm concerned. The registry, media & politicians have not made me feel the way I do about sex offenders. The one I met up close and personal at the age of 9 is the reason I feel like I do about sex offenders.
Again, if a sex offender repents and God forgives them...."Oh, Happy Day" for them!! As for me, while I am always glad when a sinner repents, I would still watch that repentant convicted sex offender like a hawk just in case he/she has a change of heart. To me, the price is too enormous for a victim to pay if the convicted sex offender backslides and it won't ever happen on my watch.
Edited for clarity....lthough I don't know how good of a job I did! 
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 4/16/2008 9:05:59 PM >
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
I weep for those who won't experience this because they have been deceived.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/16/2008 11:12:57 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1063
Joined: 4/8/2005
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Percussionlover,
I get the impression that you are not reading through and digesting the posts in response to yours. While we are to love our neighbor, no matter who are neighbor is, we cannot "forget" what the sex offender has done in the past. Forgetting, from our humanly perspective, allows an offender to reenter the world of deviant fantasy and the grooming/manipultation of new/potential victims. While true repentace changes a persons heart, how they think and act, our memories do not erase the tapes. Having lived a very promiscuous past myself, a thought, a scent, a sound, the sight of a particular female at a particular moment can send my mind into erotic thought. I have learned to capture those thoughts and surrender them to Christ. Not every "Christian" is able to do this. More "Christians" fall into sin than are willing to admit. Again, while your desire to reach out and accept is commendable, your words indicated a vast propensity for blindness.
_____________________________
You can take the man out of Alaska, but you can't take Alaska out of the man.
Me
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 1:36:33 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2844
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
most of you are in thinking that most all sex offenders are child molestors/predators & a great deal of them are not & their crimes were not against a child. there is a major difference between a child molestor/preadator(pediphile) & some one on the registry thats labled a sex offender cause they urinated in a public place/peeping tom/was 18 & had sex with their 17 yr old girlfriend/boyfriend etc....
i'm not condoneing the crime,i just want us as christians to realize because of the media & politicians,they want you to believe that if someone's on the sex offender registry that they must have had sex with a child or their crime was against a child etc.....
Most sex offenders are child molesters and 80% of the time it's family or a very close friend of the family... I know since all four of my kids were either molested or raped and I spent hours going over cases during the year plus of court dates... As for the 18 year old having sex with the 17 year, break the law deal with consequences he has only himself to blame. The “Peeping Toms” are nothing more than pedophiles in training and the registry isn't filled with those caught peeing in public...
As for how the church should treat a former sex offender... Gentle as a dove and wise as a snake...
John
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 8:56:41 AM
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percussionlover
Posts: 73
Joined: 2/29/2008
Status: offline
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thanxxx to everyone for their awesome responses.....
here's what christian author/speaker.. John Bevere says about forgiveness from his book:::"the bait of satan"....
"a person who cannot forgive has forgotten how great a debt God has forgiven them."
also john bevere includes this passage...Mark 11:24-26 therefore i say to you.whatever things you ask when you pray,believe that you receive them,and you will have them.and whenever you stand praying,if you have anything against anyone,forgive them,that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your tresspasses.but if you do not forgive,neither will your Father in heaven forgive your tresspasses.
john bevere also adds...luke 6:37 forgive,and you will be forgiven.
john bevere says this from his book..."the bait of satan"......"i wonder how many christians would want God to forgive them in the same way they have forgiven those who have offended them.yet this is exactly the way in which they will be forgiven. because unforgiveness is so rampant in our churches,we do not want to take these words of Jesus so seriously.rampant or not,truth does not change.the way we forgive,release,and restore another person is the way we will be forgiven."
here's some more things john bevere says about forgiveness in his book"the bait of satan"............
mathew 18:21-22peter asked,lord,how often shall my brother sin against me,and i forgive him?up to seven times?"Ido not say to you,up to seven times,but up to seventy times seven"..
then john bevere says this.."in other words,forgive as God does,without limits."
john bevere also adds these points about unforgiveness & the consequences of not forgiving our brothers & sisters.....
matthew 18:23-24...matthew 18:25-27...matthew 18:28...matthew 18:29-30....matthew 18:31-33...matthew 18:34-35
here's what john bevere says about these scriptures that apply to forgiving.
"now lets look at how this parable applies to being offended.when an offense occurs,a debt is owed.you have heard it said,he'll pay for this. so forgiveness is like the cancellation of a debt.the king represents God the Father,who forgave this servant a debt that was impossible for him to pay.a person who cannot forgive has forgotten the great debt for which they were forgiven.when you realize that Jesus delivered you from eternal death and torment,you will release others unconditionally.there is nothing worse than eternity in a lake of fire.there is no relief,the worm does not die,and the fire is not quenched.that was our destination until God forgave us through the death of His Son,Jesus Christ.hallelufah! if you have a hard time forgiving,think of the reality of hell and the love of God that saved you from it."
just something to think about folks.. when it comes to forgiving,even if its a brother or sister who is a sex offender attending your church & is saved & has repented of their sins...............
_____________________________
PERCUSSIONLOVER
SURFIN FOR JESUS
CONGA MAN
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 9:13:47 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 4691
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
just something to think about folks.. when it comes to forgiving,even if its a brother or sister who is a sex offender attending your church & is saved & has repented of their sins...............
There is a big difference between forgiveness and opening up the children in your Church to probable mosestation from a convicted sex offender. The reason it is probable is because the re-offend rate is so very high.
I cannot tell you the number of Churches who have welcomed with open arms a sex offender who is out of prison; and paid dearly for it with the loss of innocence of a child, not to mention law suits, etc.
When a wife has been beaten repeatedly by her husband she is to forgive him, but is she to openly give him opportunity to repeat the beatings. I say not until the husband has proven (not claimed) that the beatings will not happen again. Then the relationship should be approached slowly with just visiting, going to a movie together etc.
The same is true for Churches.
A Church that openly accepts pedeophiles is just cruisin for a bruisen.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 9:22:11 AM
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percussionlover
Posts: 73
Joined: 2/29/2008
Status: offline
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just like 2 get your thoughts on what i just wrote....
quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
thanxxx to everyone for their awesome responses.....
here's what christian author/speaker.. John Bevere says about forgiveness from his book:::"the bait of satan"....
"a person who cannot forgive has forgotten how great a debt God has forgiven them."
also john bevere includes this passage...Mark 11:24-26 therefore i say to you.whatever things you ask when you pray,believe that you receive them,and you will have them.and whenever you stand praying,if you have anything against anyone,forgive them,that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your tresspasses.but if you do not forgive,neither will your Father in heaven forgive your tresspasses.
john bevere also adds...luke 6:37 forgive,and you will be forgiven.
john bevere says this from his book..."the bait of satan"......"i wonder how many christians would want God to forgive them in the same way they have forgiven those who have offended them.yet this is exactly the way in which they will be forgiven. because unforgiveness is so rampant in our churches,we do not want to take these words of Jesus so seriously.rampant or not,truth does not change.the way we forgive,release,and restore another person is the way we will be forgiven."
here's some more things john bevere says about forgiveness in his book"the bait of satan"............
mathew 18:21-22peter asked,lord,how often shall my brother sin against me,and i forgive him?up to seven times?"Ido not say to you,up to seven times,but up to seventy times seven"..
then john bevere says this.."in other words,forgive as God does,without limits."
john bevere also adds these points about unforgiveness & the consequences of not forgiving our brothers & sisters.....
matthew 18:23-24...matthew 18:25-27...matthew 18:28...matthew 18:29-30....matthew 18:31-33...matthew 18:34-35
here's what john bevere says about these scriptures that apply to forgiving.
"now lets look at how this parable applies to being offended.when an offense occurs,a debt is owed.you have heard it said,he'll pay for this. so forgiveness is like the cancellation of a debt.the king represents God the Father,who forgave this servant a debt that was impossible for him to pay.a person who cannot forgive has forgotten the great debt for which they were forgiven.when you realize that Jesus delivered you from eternal death and torment,you will release others unconditionally.there is nothing worse than eternity in a lake of fire.there is no relief,the worm does not die,and the fire is not quenched.that was our destination until God forgave us through the death of His Son,Jesus Christ.hallelufah! if you have a hard time forgiving,think of the reality of hell and the love of God that saved you from it."
just something to think about folks.. when it comes to forgiving,even if its a brother or sister who is a sex offender attending your church & is saved & has repented of their sins...............
_____________________________
PERCUSSIONLOVER
SURFIN FOR JESUS
CONGA MAN
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 9:26:27 AM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10709
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
Status: online
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Of course Christians are called to forgive even the most heinous of crimes. Even if the person is not repentant, I believe we are called for forgive. But we are not called to be stupid and allow those convicted of sexual abuses and perversions access to our most innocent and valuable assets...our children.
_____________________________
Does God see?
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen,
but on what is unseen. 2 Cor. 4:18
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 10:22:49 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2844
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
just like 2 get your thoughts on what i just wrote....
quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
thanxxx to everyone for their awesome responses.....
here's what christian author/speaker.. John Bevere says about forgiveness from his book:::"the bait of satan"....
"a person who cannot forgive has forgotten how great a debt God has forgiven them."
also john bevere includes this passage...Mark 11:24-26 therefore i say to you.whatever things you ask when you pray,believe that you receive them,and you will have them.and whenever you stand praying,if you have anything against anyone,forgive them,that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your tresspasses.but if you do not forgive,neither will your Father in heaven forgive your tresspasses.
john bevere also adds...luke 6:37 forgive,and you will be forgiven.
john bevere says this from his book..."the bait of satan"......"i wonder how many christians would want God to forgive them in the same way they have forgiven those who have offended them.yet this is exactly the way in which they will be forgiven. because unforgiveness is so rampant in our churches,we do not want to take these words of Jesus so seriously.rampant or not,truth does not change.the way we forgive,release,and restore another person is the way we will be forgiven."
here's some more things john bevere says about forgiveness in his book"the bait of satan"............
mathew 18:21-22peter asked,lord,how often shall my brother sin against me,and i forgive him?up to seven times?"Ido not say to you,up to seven times,but up to seventy times seven"..
then john bevere says this.."in other words,forgive as God does,without limits."
john bevere also adds these points about unforgiveness & the consequences of not forgiving our brothers & sisters.....
matthew 18:23-24...matthew 18:25-27...matthew 18:28...matthew 18:29-30....matthew 18:31-33...matthew 18:34-35
here's what john bevere says about these scriptures that apply to forgiving.
"now lets look at how this parable applies to being offended.when an offense occurs,a debt is owed.you have heard it said,he'll pay for this. so forgiveness is like the cancellation of a debt.the king represents God the Father,who forgave this servant a debt that was impossible for him to pay.a person who cannot forgive has forgotten the great debt for which they were forgiven.when you realize that Jesus delivered you from eternal death and torment,you will release others unconditionally.there is nothing worse than eternity in a lake of fire.there is no relief,the worm does not die,and the fire is not quenched.that was our destination until God forgave us through the death of His Son,Jesus Christ.hallelufah! if you have a hard time forgiving,think of the reality of hell and the love of God that saved you from it."
just something to think about folks.. when it comes to forgiving,even if its a brother or sister who is a sex offender attending your church & is saved & has repented of their sins...............
Forgiveness of sins isn't a blank check to believe that if a person raped a child since they asked and received forgiveness on an Ecclesiastical level that it’s ok to have them run the Youth Group. While God knows the hearts of man we don’t and we are instructed to be wise and test all things. If the person who raped children is truly repentant he/she would understand there is going to a skeptical approach towards him or her until trust can be retored… To do otherwise is foolish and not wise.
You can't take what you posted and simply apply to every situation and there are two types of consequences for sin, eternal and temporal. While God and even man forgive and eternally forgiveness is granted the temporal consequences linger because of the severity of the crime/sin…
John
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 10:38:17 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3748
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: percussionlover
just like 2 get your thoughts on what i just wrote....
What is your personal connection with this individual? That might help us understand your tenacity in wanting to give this person carte blanche at church.
_____________________________
Wenn zuerst Sie nicht gelingen, Versuch, versuch wieder. Geben Sie dann auf. Es gibt keinen punkt, in ein zu sein, verdammt Narren darum. -- W. C. Fields
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 10:38:39 AM
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bluestone
Posts: 1734
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: Saturn
Status: offline
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After an embezzler is saved, should they count the offering? no! it could lead to temptation.
I have seen gays fall back into the lifestyle after starting a "gay outreach", and sex offenders recommit when given enough leeway in the church setting.
forgiveness does not equal trust.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 11:21:42 AM
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phosadaud
Posts: 8003
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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((((Shar-Mar)))) Thank you for sharing. If I could give stars, I would.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
The easily offended...
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 11:41:42 AM
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Qtman
Posts: 11244
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
Status: offline
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I agree with the stars. And so did someone else.
Another poster, PrincessDonna I think, said it very well. We do not have to be come blind and stupid just because we forgive someone. Forgive them? By all means. Stop watching them not on your life.
_____________________________
Please Remember our Military Past and Present. ALL gave some, SOME gave all.
Qtman's Musings
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 11:53:31 AM
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phosadaud
Posts: 8003
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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Yep!
_____________________________
~Kristin~
The easily offended...
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 12:36:38 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1198
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
cow451: What is your personal connection with this individual? That might help us understand your tenacity in wanting to give this person carte blanche at church.
I think that's an excellent and valid question.
percussionlover: There's a few other questions that were asked but I noticed you did not respond. Here they are again:
How do you feel about background checks for potential ministry workers? Good idea, bad idea?
Would you leave your children alone with a known sex offender in your church?
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 12:53:11 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3454
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
But, especially in a LARGE church like mine (26,000+ members....5,000 or so in each service), anyone can walk in to church and attend the service. How would one know who they are (sex offenders)? They just don't announce who they are once they walk in the door. Or, maybe they are supposed to....I don't know..... Of course, like many others, we have a full security team on site at all times, and during "high traffic" times (like sunday morning), a fair number of uniformed, off-duty police officers.
Well, obviously we are speaking of the ones we know about, and yes, this is exactly what happened in my church and why we really started looking at the issue. A convicted sex offender presented himself to one of the pastors asking if he could attend our church.
There also had just been a great big deal in the papers regarding two other local churches that had the same thing happen. Actually one of the churches had the congregation vote as to whether or not they would allow a particular convicted sex offender (whose crime was against a child) to attend ...they voted "Nay."
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
I weep for those who won't experience this because they have been deceived.
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