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'Soaking' - 4/8/2008 10:39:13 PM
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pezdispenser
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Does anyone know where 'soaking' services originated and when they entered evangelical circles?
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/8/2008 11:00:10 PM
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colliefan
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Don't know where the practice started but a year ago I went to a soaking prayer service at the Anglican Mission in America conference. Just an extended time of focused prayer and worship asking the HS to do His work in the lives of those present.
No prophesing. No speaking in tongues. No getting slain-in-the spirit. Some music but also extended times of silence.
found this
www.durrance.com/FrAl/intercessory_and_soaking_prayer.htm
< Message edited by colliefan -- 4/8/2008 11:18:12 PM >
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/9/2008 10:38:04 AM
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Kat_D
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IT came in with the Emerging Church/Contemplative Spirituality/Holy Laughter, etc. movements.
Steer clear.
P.S. There was a huge thread on this subject, but when I did a search for it, I couldn't find it. Sorry!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/9/2008 10:38:50 AM
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drfuss
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Don't know where the practice started but a year ago I went to a soaking prayer service at the Anglican Mission in America conference. Just an extended time of focused prayer and worship asking the HS to do His work in the lives of those present.
No prophesing. No speaking in tongues. No getting slain-in-the spirit. Some music but also extended times of silence.
found this
www.durrance.com/FrAl/intercessory_and_soaking_prayer.htm
drfuss: From the website, it says the following about soaking prayer:
"Soaking prayer is a form of intercession whereby we hold the person for whom we are praying in His presence for a longer period of time. It would seem that God takes more time to do some things than He takes to do others."
Wow. The above seems to suggest that a longer prayer is needed by God for Him to answer some prayers. I don't think so.
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/9/2008 4:00:40 PM
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rlj
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Soaking has been done for decades perhaps even centuries. I was doing it in the late '80s though we didn't call it "soaking". It's just listening to worshipful music and meditating on God, Praying, thinking about Him, etc. I used to love doing it to the old Integrity Instrumental series and that goes back to about 1990.
Colliefan got it exactly right.
"Soaking-Prayer" I have never heard of, but when I would lay there or sit there and listen to the songs it was just natural to want to pray sometimes. It's like meditating with music.
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1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/9/2008 5:02:22 PM
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colliefan
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I believe the term is associared with a long, lingering rainshower (aka, a soaking rain). Just an extended period of time focused on being in the presence of a Holy God. Also, inculded would be divine reading (lectio divina), the practice of reading scripture back to its author. Nowhere is there any sense of demanding that God move in our time.
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/9/2008 5:14:01 PM
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map4
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
I believe the term is associared with a long, lingering rainshower (aka, a soaking rain). Just an extended period of time focused on being in the presence of a Holy God. Also, inculded would be divine reading (lectio divina), the practice of reading scripture back to its author. Nowhere is there any sense of demanding that God move in our time.
Hmmm, speaking God's word to Him...
Seriously, I enjoy soaking in God's presence and listening to worship music. What is the purpose (don't know if that's the correct word to use) of reading the scripture back to its author in this setting? I'm just trying to get a mental picture of exactly what these services are like to see if it's like some I've been in.
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/9/2008 5:54:11 PM
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called2valor
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
I believe the term is associared with a long, lingering rainshower (aka, a soaking rain). Just an extended period of time focused on being in the presence of a Holy God. Also, inculded would be divine reading (lectio divina), the practice of reading scripture back to its author. Nowhere is there any sense of demanding that God move in our time.
Funny you posted about Lectio Divina, because without reading the thread yet, when I saw the topic "Soaking" that is immediately what came to mind.
I think that the intent and leading of the Spirit would determine whether any "soaking" practice was godly or not. Sometimes people just put new terms on old things and soaking oneself in the presence of the Lord certainly isn't a new practice. If some emergent people misuse it, that isn't God's fault ;)
Peace
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/9/2008 5:56:37 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
IT came in with the Emerging Church/Contemplative Spirituality/Holy Laughter, etc. movements.
Steer clear.
P.S. There was a huge thread on this subject, but when I did a search for it, I couldn't find it. Sorry!
No, it's been around for centuries and centuries. All of the early saints in history believed in being quiet before God and listening to Him. The term 'soaking' is simply a new term to describe an old pattern of praying.
There's nothing scary about it. God tells us to "be still and know that I am God" and that is basically all that people are doing. They are being quiet and allowing the HS time to speak to them.
It's a beautiful thing to do and really helps to bring rest as God will "give perfect peace to the mind that is stayed on Him." That's another benefit of being quiet and meditating on scripture and God in prayer - peace.
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/9/2008 6:00:01 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
I believe the term is associared with a long, lingering rainshower (aka, a soaking rain). Just an extended period of time focused on being in the presence of a Holy God. Also, inculded would be divine reading (lectio divina), the practice of reading scripture back to its author. Nowhere is there any sense of demanding that God move in our time.
I totally agree. My 'soaking' times were being quiet and never demanding anything from God. It's more for our benefit than God's.
I know for me, I'm so busy throughout my day that it can take quite a while for my mind to get quiet and I can focus on God in prayer. And it can really feel like a refreshing time under a 'rain shower', which is a good metaphor to use.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 4/10/2008 4:52:17 PM >
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/9/2008 10:50:37 PM
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colliefan
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Of course, the practice of lectio divina is not for God's purposes, but for ours. This helps tune the mind, soul, and spirit in an act of worship. Yes, pagans have co-opted this practice but it doesn't mean we should stop using it. As with anything, it is merely a tool to use in worship.
Even using the ACTS acrostic tool can be worshiped more than just a way to come into God's presence.
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/10/2008 3:07:22 AM
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cybrjewls
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Hello! Some people have them, at times at Church. However, it is written: But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
IT came in with the Emerging Church/Contemplative Spirituality/Holy Laughter, etc. movements.
Steer clear.
P.S. There was a huge thread on this subject, but when I did a search for it, I couldn't find it. Sorry!
< Message edited by .prophetica. -- 4/10/2008 10:37:51 PM >
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/10/2008 12:16:00 PM
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Lycea
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I guess I am not sure what would be objectionable in the body of Christ meeting together to pray and worship God in any context or format. But then again I am an Evangelical Quaker, and we've been meeting together in silence to worship for 335 years approximately, so my perspective is a little different.
Please tell me why it would be "scary" or wrong for God's people to do this.
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/10/2008 3:51:05 PM
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bluestone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
IT came in with the Emerging Church/Contemplative Spirituality/Holy Laughter, etc. movements.
Steer clear.
P.S. There was a huge thread on this subject, but when I did a search for it, I couldn't find it. Sorry!
Correct, Kat. This business was a big part of the Kansas City Prophet movement a few years ago, and it spread into the church I had been attending a few months ago.
This church, in addtion to getting into a lot of oddball teachings, began to have "soaking" services. Constantly. They decided to "Soak" the pastor's marriage in prayer, and the services were pretty wild. Wild as in Too Wild for an AOG church! Not seinging from the chandoliers wild, but quiet, mumbo jumbo touchy feely kinda wild.
Anyhoo, the church wound up leaving the denomination over this goo.
Another one of the emotionally unstable, stitched together with here and there scripture movements that winds up hurting people.
International House of Prayer In KC is where the pastor picked this stuff up. He was flying out there all the time, sending members there for the soak seminars, etc.
< Message edited by bluestone -- 4/10/2008 3:57:28 PM >
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/10/2008 4:51:20 PM
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SD456
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quote:
pagans have co-opted this practice but it doesn't mean we should stop using it.
Yes, that's a good insight. Pagans have co-opted so much of what's in christianity, here and there, that christians can sometimes be afraid of it.
Use all things for God's glory, whether eating, drinking, praying, dancing, etc., that's my motto (and it was Paul's also)
And spending silent times with God, soaking in His presence, or in other words 'waiting' in His presence which is how scripture terms it, is very good for the soul.
Ps 37:7
Be still before the LORD, and wait patiently for him
Ps 25:5
Lead me in thy truth, and teach me, for thou art the God of my salvation; for thee I wait all the day long.
Isa 40:31
but they who wait for the LORD shall renew their strength, they shall mount up with wings like eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint.
La 3:25
The LORD is good to those who wait for him, to the soul that seeks him.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 4/10/2008 5:04:57 PM >
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/10/2008 9:22:53 PM
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colliefan
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Would we throw out the practice of Communion b/c the Church of Corinth abused it?
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/13/2008 6:54:55 PM
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SD456
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I would tend to question people who include in their statements: "be afraid of", "run from" "have nothing to do with" "steer clear" in their conversations all the time.
We are not to have a spirit of fear and some christians are very motivated by fear. Fear blinds us and often gives us poor judgement.
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/13/2008 8:17:15 PM
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themoodyexperience
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I would tend to question people who include in their statements: "be afraid of", "run from" "have nothing to do with" "steer clear" in their conversations all the time.
We are not to have a spirit of fear and some christians are very motivated by fear. Fear blinds us and often gives us poor judgement.
Yeah, cause God never told anybody to steer clear of anything.
One person's fear might be another one's discernment. Blanket acceptance often give us poor judgment as well.
< Message edited by themoodyexperience -- 4/13/2008 10:33:14 PM >
_____________________________
If you question what I'm teaching you
You rebel against the Father too.
- Steve Taylor from "I Manipulate"
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/13/2008 8:34:55 PM
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earthless
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The middle-ground is discernment, which many today want nothing to do with.
The other two extremes are:
a) acceptance of anything and everything a Christian advocates
or
b) not believing God does miracles today, that there are indeed acts of providence done by Him, because of His grace
So far I have not seen anyone in these discussions be part of the 'b' group. But many are indeed of the 'a' group and that's a problem.
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/13/2008 10:38:28 PM
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themoodyexperience
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
The middle-ground is discernment, which many today want nothing to do with.
The other two extremes are:
a) acceptance of anything and everything a Christian advocates
or
b) not believing God does miracles today, that there are indeed acts of providence done by Him, because of His grace
So far I have not seen anyone in these discussions be part of the 'b' group. But many are indeed of the 'a' group and that's a problem.
I guess I'm part of a 'C' group that believes in God's miracles, His divine providence and will and His amazing grace, but I don't go along with everything man does in His name and claims it's of him. I don't accept everything with the fear that I might be judging someone.
When you start doing that you welcome everything from prosperity gospel to false prophecy and more things that should never have a place in the body of Christ. That being said I believe in corporate worship and personal meditation (should i say quiet time; meditiation being another term pagans have preverted), but when you say 'hey look at us, here's God and we're soaking in Him', that's when I believe the practice is misused.
< Message edited by themoodyexperience -- 4/13/2008 10:46:02 PM >
_____________________________
If you question what I'm teaching you
You rebel against the Father too.
- Steve Taylor from "I Manipulate"
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/13/2008 10:47:06 PM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I would tend to question people who include in their statements: "be afraid of", "run from" "have nothing to do with" "steer clear" in their conversations all the time.
We are not to have a spirit of fear and some christians are very motivated by fear. Fear blinds us and often gives us poor judgement.
Yeah, cause God never told anybody to steer clear of anything.
One person's fear might be another one's discernment. Blanket acceptance often give us poor judgment as well.
I didn't say 'blanket acceptance", so you are putting words in my mouth.
I said when people's conversations are full of "be afraid", "run from" "steer clear", then I would question that person since they seem afraid of quite a lot.
quote:
but when you say 'hey look at us, here's God and we're soaking in Him'
I've never heard another christian speak that way before. "Hey look at us?" Any christian I've seen 'soaking' in God's presence is so completely focused on jesus that they don't even remember that there are other people around them.
I'm not sure what kinds of christians you've hung around, but that attitude is foreign to anyone I've ever met. That's a strange negative motive to project onto another christian. Have you actually heard a christian talk this way before?
< Message edited by SD456 -- 4/13/2008 10:56:14 PM >
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/13/2008 11:10:10 PM
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themoodyexperience
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I would tend to question people who include in their statements: "be afraid of", "run from" "have nothing to do with" "steer clear" in their conversations all the time.
We are not to have a spirit of fear and some christians are very motivated by fear. Fear blinds us and often gives us poor judgement.
Yeah, cause God never told anybody to steer clear of anything.
One person's fear might be another one's discernment. Blanket acceptance often give us poor judgment as well.
I didn't say 'blanket acceptance", so you are putting words in my mouth.
I've never seen you disagree with any practice us fuddy-duddies have questioned on these forums. I drew my own conclusions. You never said the words 'blanket acceptance'. Those were my words.
quote:
I said when people's conversations are full of "be afraid", "run from" "steer clear", then I would question that person since they seem afraid of quite a lot.
quote:
but when you say 'hey look at us, here's God and we're soaking in Him'
I've never heard another christian speak that way before. "Hey look at us?" Any christian I've seen 'soaking' in God's presence is so completely focused on jesus that they don't even remember that there are other people around them.
I'm not sure what kinds of christians you've hung around, but that attitude is foreign to anyone I've ever met. That's a strange negative motive to project onto another christian. Have you actually heard a christian talk this way before?
Oh, the majority of people I've seen 'soaking' in God's presence are doing it genuinely. I merely stated that anyone doing it for show or acceptance has the wrong motives. I can't know their soul, but if they are doing it for those reasons they are projecting enough of a strange negative motive on themselves without any help from me.
If you took some offense from my use of the pronoun 'you'
quote:
but when you say 'hey look at us, here's God and we're soaking in Him'
i meant it in the general sense.
< Message edited by themoodyexperience -- 4/13/2008 11:21:16 PM >
_____________________________
If you question what I'm teaching you
You rebel against the Father too.
- Steve Taylor from "I Manipulate"
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/13/2008 11:23:28 PM
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SD456
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quote:
You never said the words 'blanket acceptance'. Those were my words.
Oh, I thought so. It would help with conversations if we didn't exaggerate each other's comments and add things in that the other didn't say.
quote:
I merely stated that anyone doing it for show or acceptance has the wrong motives.
I agree. If people have a motive like that than it would be wrong. But since it's not the easiest thing to do, spend an extended length of time waiting on God, I can't imagine too many people out there are doing it for show.
But I see what you're saying.
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/13/2008 11:53:11 PM
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themoodyexperience
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
You never said the words 'blanket acceptance'. Those were my words.
Oh, I thought so. It would help with conversations if we didn't exaggerate each other's comments and add things in that the other didn't say.
quote:
I merely stated that anyone doing it for show or acceptance has the wrong motives.
I agree. If people have a motive like that than it would be wrong. But since it's not the easiest thing to do, spend an extended length of time waiting on God, I can't imagine too many people out there are doing it for show.
But I see what you're saying.
Yeah, I would see how that would be sort of difficult. But like every other thing done in a church around other people, it can be done for show. I just happened to be in this thread when that hit me.
_____________________________
If you question what I'm teaching you
You rebel against the Father too.
- Steve Taylor from "I Manipulate"
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RE: 'Soaking' - 4/14/2008 1:48:00 AM
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sue244
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quote:
Oh, I thought so. It would help with conversations if we didn't exaggerate each other's comments and add things in that the other didn't say.
Like saying people that disagree with you are afraid?
Discernment is lacking in todays Christianity. It is not a cool gift and is looked down upon in many circles.
If we could get away from straw man arguments about censensilist not believing in the gifts of the spirit, that is an over gerneralzation, because in fact they do believe in the gifts of the spirt just not the sign gifts that are so popular in some circles.
and the starw man that people that are exercising discernment are afraid then maybe we could get somewhere.
After reading a few web sites on soaking the problem I see with it is that its involves emptying the mind, and we are never commanded to empty our minds in scripture, in fact we are told to do the opposite, and fill our minds with scripture and meditate on scripture day and night. Anything that requiers emptying ones mind is not biblical by any streach of the imagination.
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Spurgen
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