RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

What is your opinion about denominations?


They are of the devil!
  14% (10)
They are divisive.
  20% (14)
They are helpful for knowing a church's doctrine.
  22% (15)
They are a necessary evil.
  1% (1)
There's nothing wrong with them.
  14% (10)
They are all cults (excpt mine, of course).
  2% (2)
Denominations are a part of God's plan.
  8% (6)
Other
  14% (10)


Total Votes : 68
(last vote on : 7/5/2008 3:09:44 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message

walterquez -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/26/2008 7:50:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloak

Eastern Standard time?
Central.

How about yours? Is there a meal at the end?



1love1God1way -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/26/2008 7:54:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: walterquez

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

We have joint fellowship, joint services, etc. on a regular basis. We are full gospel holiness and I am having a SBC Pastor speak tomorrow morning
I was not talking about having a guest speaker. Joint with "all" Protestants? LCMS, ELCA, SBC, PCA, PCUSA, Anglicans, Methodists, AOG, and others? Are you allowed to take communion in any of them? How about water baptism? If someone was baptized as an infant in one of the others, is that good enough for you? Or for the other denominations in general?


I can't speak for all denoms, or for RC, but. . .

As a part of the AOG, we celebrate open communion, meaning, you don't have to be a part of the church or the denomination to partake, all you have to have is salvation found in Christ the Lord.



quote:

I teach 9 Bible studies a week and we never have strife, sometime there are civil discussions and we study the Word until all come to unity on all salvic issues.
Why did you end with, "until all come to unity"? And then "on all salvic issues"? Who determines what is salvic and what is not, since each denomination have their own take on it?

Again, not to answer questions that aren't for me, but the criterion of salvation is clearly laid out in Scripture, and if a denomination is teaching something other than what is in Scripture concerning the major points (minus secondary issues), then I would be hardpressed to consider them a Christian denomination.



walterquez -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/26/2008 8:03:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

I can't speak for all denoms, or for RC, but. . .

As a part of the AOG, we celebrate open communion, meaning, you don't have to be a part of the church or the denomination to partake, all you have to have is salvation found in Christ the Lord.
Communion in the sense of taking communion, but not in the sense of being in communion with other denoms. I know the AOG does not allow someone from a different denom to be a pastor of an AOG, especially if they don't believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.



Cloak -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/26/2008 8:04:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: walterque

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloak

Eastern Standard time?
Central.

How about yours? Is there a meal at the end?



I will be there at Central time. I will attend a service online. There is no Orthodox church nearby sadly. Right now, I am listening to Eastern Hymns which I adore and they make me tearful and wistful.

Usually what we do is go to midnite mass/service and then when we get back we eat the coloured eggs.

Ideally, this is the big feast in the Orthodox Church where people fast the big fast (Great Lenten), so we have a small snack before we go to church.

Easter meal is tomorrow, I will be baking a salmon fish in the oven with some mashed potatoes and salad.

Walter! What is the traditional Easter meal in your customs, is it the same as me?

OMG, I am getting nostalgic!!!! [:(]



walterquez -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/26/2008 8:13:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

Again, not to answer questions that aren't for me, but the criterion of salvation is clearly laid out in Scripture, and if a denomination is teaching something other than what is in Scripture concerning the major points (minus secondary issues), then I would be hardpressed to consider them a Christian denomination.
Who determines what are the major vs minus points? Each denom make the same claim that the criterion for salvation is clearly laid out, or the sole authority of the scripture, but despite this, they all have different interpretations. Why do we have OSAS vs Arminians vs others? Why is there strife with what are called core beliefs?

One group believes, and these signs will follow true believers, and since your denom don't have these signs, they are not true believers. And the other group, since these signs were for that time, and since you're practicing these things, it can only mean they are demonic in nature, because it was done away with.



walterquez -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/26/2008 8:21:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloak

I will be there at Central time. I will attend a service online. There is no Orthodox church nearby sadly.
[:(]
Non at all? Greek, Antiochian, Russian, Romanian, or any other? I was fortunate to find one where I live. And there is also another Greek and one Antiochian about an hour away.

Have you tried searching here? http://www.scoba.us/directory.html

quote:

Walter! What is the traditional Easter meal in your customs, is it the same as me?
We will be having lambs after the service. It is one of those rare times I eat a full meal around 2 in the morning.[:D]



Cloak -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/26/2008 8:37:47 PM)

Thanks for the Link, I will check it out!

There is one Romanian Church somewhere in my area, though I can't recall where exactly. We also have 2 Greek Orthodox churches somewhere where I was baptized; but since I have no Orthodox friends, I celebrate it here with the Lord. My place is a little chapel filled with the presence of the Lord with Easter hymn playing all day long and incense filling the air. It really looks like a lil church my place here, you can feel and touch Jesus here.

Lambs is the traditional meal for Easter?! This is very much like my Jewish friends when they celebrate Passover!

Waiting for you here at 10:30 - 11 Central time which means 11:30 - 12 while on the verge of starting to eat my Easter eggs with my herb tea!!! [sm=flower.gif]



walterquez -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/26/2008 8:44:30 PM)

Oh, the eggs. We hit it against each other to see whose egg doesn't break. If yours doesn't, you win. Well, not sure what you win, but you win. Last year I tried it with several friends and it never broke. I think the egg I got was probably still frozen inside. [:D]

I know we're having lamb, and had it for several years, but can't say that is the Greek tradition. I'll ask the priest tonight, if I remember to ask.



Cloak -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/26/2008 8:47:53 PM)

Happy and Blessed service/Mass to you and your family!!! God's speed!



walterquez -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/26/2008 8:57:21 PM)

For those not familiar with Orthodoxy, the Orthodox services are called, "Divine Liturgy" as opposed to "Mass" for the RCC, or services for all others.



Cloak -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/26/2008 9:01:08 PM)

Sorry Walter, my apologies. Funny, I've always found it written Mass. Thanks for this invaluable info!!!

Happy and Blessed Divine Liturgy!!!



Heavendweller -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/26/2008 9:14:47 PM)

quote:

If you try hard enough, every single disagreement can be made a heresy. "You aren't changing your mind even though I used BIBLE VERSES to prove my point... you don't believe the Bible is true, that's heresy, away you evil doer!" The problem is that much of our understanding of the Bible is highly subjective because of the multitude of ways in which we read what is in front of our face. One reads the Bible with the mindset of a 21st century Christian, another reads it with the Greek Rationalistic mindset, and yet another is attempting to read it with a 21st century Christian's understanding of the Ancient Jewish mindset. This is how five people can read the exact same chapter and come up with 5 different opinions on what it means.

Adam,
You are on to one of the major problems within modern Christianity. And sad to say, but those churches who are breaking away from a particular denomination (such as Methodist, Reformed, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, etc.) to become "non-denominational" will not avoid the problem of which you speak.

Heavendweller



Cloak -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/26/2008 11:13:47 PM)

It's a pouring rain tonight on Holy Saturday. How symbolic of the Lord's Crucifixion!!! Hosanna in the Highest for the Son of God, the King of kings!!!

Christos Anesti!!! Christ is Risen in Greek!!! [sm=christianity.jpg]



CropDuster -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/30/2008 6:44:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God

Do you think that having different denominations in the body of Christ is a good thing or not?


Denominations are necessary for the maintenance of our freedom of religious expression. In order to be free in our worship, we must be able to choose communities, doctrines, religions, and religious denominations that appeal to us. As a Christian, however, I encourage believers to not mistake their denominations for Jesus Christ. To me, they're not the same. Christ is Christ. Christ is God. One's denomination is simply a multi-dimensional interpretation of Christ. The fact that there are so many denominations, and that there has been so much Christian in-fighting since the beginning of Christianity, serves as proof-positive that there is no standard, uniform interpretation of Christ, and never will be. Therefore, we should work harder to celebrate our greatest commonalities -- Jesus Christ and Christian Civilization -- and downplay our differences. I'm certain that in the final analysis, our differences mean little to our Lord, as long as we don't go to extremes and hurt others in doing so.



Catholicandloveit -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/30/2008 9:11:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: walterquez

For those not familiar with Orthodoxy, the Orthodox services are called, "Divine Liturgy" as opposed to "Mass" for the RCC, or services for all others.


As I was reading this thread I was wondering if the Orthodox used the term Mass or something else. Learned something new today thanks! [:D]

Cloak and Walterquez - I hope you had a blessed Easter.

Consecrated2God - I don't know if having different denominations is a good thing or not. I see the bad, but I think the good is having the right to worship in any denomination we wish and that is important. Plus to be honest we would never agree on a singlar denomination, or 2, or 3, or . . . .

I think what is important is that Christians of any denomination are all trying to do the best they can to love and serve the Lord.

Pax,
Mary



Cloak -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (4/30/2008 3:11:59 PM)

Thanks Mary for your well-wishes!!! [;)] God bless you hon!



rcjames -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (5/1/2008 9:47:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: walterquez
quote:

Also am I to understand that there is never a member of the EOC that has a question concerning their doctrine?
I don't think having question is what we're talking about, but about having a different position.


OK Walter, you dodged that question like an all star dodge ball player, let me try again.

In all the EOC there has never been someone who had a different opinion (postion) on anything and it got resolved.

That the EOC has never had high level meetings to iorn out some differences (The Pope vs. bishops dealy comes to mind), that no one ever questioned the act of veneration of a painting hung on the wall, etc. etc.

I find that very difficult to digest.

Thanks
RC



walterquez -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (5/1/2008 7:26:29 PM)

Dear rcjames, please forgive me for not being clear. Sure many have questions about certain doctrines.

If there are any disputes, it is compared to the faith of the Church which was handed down from our forefathers all the way back to the beginning. Someone may say, the Trinity is a false doctrine. And if this went to a council, each bishop will say what was handed down to him and say the Holy Trinity is what we were taught, and what our forefathers were taught, and theirs. And another bishop will say, we too have the same tradition, etc... And the next bishop would say the same, we also were handed down this tradition. And the rest, each stating the deposit of faith handed down to them. Eventually, they will exclaim this is the deposit of faith handed down to all the bishops.
But it doesn't stop there. If there were other Saints or prior Councils that talked about this topic, their votes would be counted as well.

So even if the person can somehow show that there is no such thing as a Trinity, it will not be accepted, no matter how credible it may sound, and how weak our explanation may be. It is not for us to redefine, or reinterpret the deposit of faith once given. The matter has been settled, and all must accept the deposit of faith. If not, after several attempts to convince them to reject this innovation, they are cast out as heretics.

So it is not a matter of we will believe this, and you can believe whatever you want as long as we agree on the essentials. This is not how it works. You either take it all or none of it. It is not up to us to choose to believe what we want. We are one, because we all believe the same deposit of faith. It doesn't matter if you go to a Greek Orthodox, a Russian, Antiochian, or any other Orthodox groups, the deposit of faith is the same. It is not, we believe on the essentials, but differ on this other parts.



rcjames -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (5/1/2008 7:34:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: walterquez

So it is not a matter of we will believe this, and you can believe whatever you want as long as we agree on the essentials. This is not how it works. You either take it all or none of it. It is not up to us to choose to believe what we want. We are one, because we all believe the same deposit of faith. It doesn't matter if you go to a Greek Orthodox, a Russian, Antiochian, or any other Orthodox groups, the deposit of faith is the same. It is not, we believe on the essentials, but differ on this other parts.


That is exactly what I said about my denomination agreeing completely on all things salvic (the essential things). Now there can be differing opinions on non-essentail (non-salvic issues, and it is not a problem) We do not have knock down drag out nomatter what you may have been told.

By the way when I refer to salvic issues I am referring to the elements of our faith that would allow one to be a child of God or deny them.

Thanks
RC



walterquez -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (5/1/2008 10:19:42 PM)

This is one of those point I tried to explain to you. It is not about believing what you think are essential, and be okay with others having their own interpretations for what you think are non-essential.

I hope you do realize that "essential" is subjective.



Ezra -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (5/2/2008 12:38:47 AM)

It's interesting to examine the poll itself. There are almost as many views about denominations are there are denominations (and they don't number in the thousands either).

Now when it comes to the RCC and the EOC, each one claims that the other is a split-off from itself. They use the term "schism" instead of denomination, but it boils down to the same thing. Their doctrines do not coincide. Therefore they are two denominations, if you will.

God did not ordain denominations, but He uses them to bring truth to light. The real Body of Christ is one -- Christ the Head and those who are in Christ the members. THe outward scene does not represent the spiritual and heavenly reality.

Externally, Paul said there would be divisions among Christians and so they are. And so they will remain. However, it behoves every Christian to search the Scriptures and seek the Lord's face to determine where and with whom they will fellowship.

It also behoves every Christian to "Prove all things, [and] hold fast that which is good". The two most ancient churches are rife with error.

Had all the churches established by the apostles stood fast on Scripture, there would be no divisions. Church history proves that error and false practice crept into the churches very early and very rapidly. And error continues to abound in Christendom.



gmc4Jesus -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (5/8/2008 9:44:12 PM)

The word "denomination" means "divided". It originate as churches divided primarily from Catholocism and later from one another. This is not what Jesus prayed for in John 17 and what the Apostles adressed in Acts 6. Paul also spoke out against division in I Corinthians 1 and Galatians 1.

You might join the discussion on "What would build unity in our churches?" Instead of lamenting the disunity of denominations, why don't we build on the unity (not uniformity) that will help us be more effective in evangelizing the lost.

On the one hand, there is nothing inherently wrong with having different opinions on non-essential matters. However, when we make those issues of separation, then we get caught up in trying to persuade other Christians to our version of "rightness" instead of focusing on reaching the lost for Christ. Our intentions are generally good, but our focus gets off of the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20) and the devil gets in to interfere with what God has called us to do. What kind of example do we then present to the world?

From my perspective of over 50 years, denominationalism has done more harm to the church than good. Oh that we could focus on what unites us and reach the lost instead of trying to straighten one another out at the expense of reaching the lost for Christ.

God bless us as we seek to build His Church.



Heavendweller -> RE: What is your opinion about denominations? (5/9/2008 6:58:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus

The word "denomination" means "divided". It originate as churches divided primarily from Catholocism and later from one another. This is not what Jesus prayed for in John 17 and what the Apostles adressed in Acts 6.

I agree with you on this. Should one think of the reason for these various and sundry denominations, then all the more one realizes that denominations are not the will of God. Rather, they are a result of human beings.

quote:

You might join the discussion on "What would build unity in our churches?" Instead of lamenting the disunity of denominations, why don't we build on the unity (not uniformity) that will help us be more effective in evangelizing the lost.

I haven't joined in on this discussion, but perhaps I would be surprised and actually find some unity in doctrine, goals and purpose on this thread. As it stands thus far, what I have come to discover since joining Crosswalk.com is that Christians have a difficult time uniting in just about anything. Hey, do we all like church picnics? AMEN! Now there's something we can unite in. [:D]

quote:

On the one hand, there is nothing inherently wrong with having different opinions on non-essential matters. However, when we make those issues of separation, then we get caught up in trying to persuade other Christians to our version of "rightness" instead of focusing on reaching the lost for Christ.

And just what would be those "non-essential matters?" I'm curious to know. In fact, I bet dollars to donuts that if I began a discussion on what these "non-essentials" of the faith are, there would be quite a bit of diversity and disagreement expressed.

Since the internet and the explosion of t.v. evangelism, I am unpleasantly surprised at the lack of unity within Christendom. What seems to have happened on a rather large scale is so many Christians think of themselves as qualified to take their Bibles and teach everyone else what
quote:

they
think the truth is. Thus it is that we have all these "teachers" within Evangelicalism and so few students.

Heavendweller



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