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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 3:53:32 PM
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Sunnymom
Posts: 1974
Joined: 4/11/2005
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From the MTA website-
quote:
It is our goal to provide transportation for persons of all ages. Nonetheless, to safely use the commuter rail system, customers must be able to understand written signs and displays, such as those which show train destinations and track numbers, and to follow instructions issued verbally by employees or over the public address systems in station and on trains. Riders should also have the maturity to be able to react to unexpected situations that may arise in any transportation system, such as train delays, cancellations or other service disruptions. For these reasons, MTA Metro-North Railroad recommends that children under the age of 8 be accompanied by an adult or a responsible youth (at least 12 years old) when riding its trains.
Children age 8 and above may ride alone, but we strongly suggest the following:
1. Children should carry identification showing their name, address, home phone number and the name and phone number of the person who will be meeting them.
2. Parents and guardians should review the details of the trip with their child prior to travel, including the name of the line they will be riding and the station where they will be getting on and off the train. For young children, this information should be given to the child in writing, as there are a number of stations with similar names, and a small child may get confused in the excitement of traveling.
3. Since many of our stations have two or more platforms and multiple stairways and exits, make sure that you establish a specific location at the station where your child will be met.
4. No child should be traveling unaccompanied during late night hours.
The most important point is to make sure that the child knows that if they have any questions or problems, they should look for a police officer or railroad employee in uniform.
It appears that children riding alone is more normal than we think.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 3:55:09 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 2345
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
I have a friend who left liquid Tylenol out on a counter, and her toddler drank the whole bottle, Was that neglect?
Not to derail the thread, but did the child make it?
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 3:59:22 PM
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Sunnymom
Posts: 1974
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
I have a friend who left liquid Tylenol out on a counter, and her toddler drank the whole bottle, Was that neglect?
Not to derail the thread, but did the child make it?
Yes- it takes an amazing amount of Tylenol to poison a child. The kid slept all day and was fine.
And to address what someone said earlier, I understand an 'accident' is different than a deliberate act of endangerment. The problem comes when we define neglect by the outcome instead of by the act. If it is neglectful for a pool not to be gated and locked, then can a parent be penalized for that before a child drowns, or only after?
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 4:07:43 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 2345
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I think a parent can and should be penalized in some fashion for not taking proper steps to protect a child, like gating and locking a pool. But the penalty will be worse if someone is actually hurt or dies. People get arrested for driving while intoxicated; they go to prison for a long, long time if they actually kill someone because they were driving while drunk.
If this particular child had been hurt on his little adventure, I don't think the mom should've been penalized. She was trying to teach her child how to be an adult, and how to function in NYC. She may have made an error in judgment, but it wasn't neglect.
I let my son run around on concrete. If he falls and splits his skull, should I go to prison for child endangerment?
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 4:12:44 PM
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Sunnymom
Posts: 1974
Joined: 4/11/2005
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The story of the author and her son is pretty big- check out this article and video on MSNBC.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 4:22:05 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10539
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From: Cow country, Upstate NY
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quote:
If this particular child had been hurt on his little adventure, I don't think the mom should've been penalized. She was trying to teach her child how to be an adult, and how to function in NYC. She may have made an error in judgment, but it wasn't neglect.
At 9? Why not 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, or 17? There were plenty more years to do this kind of exercise. Why does a 9 year old need to learn to be an adult? They aren't adults.
A sidenote...as a kid, my nose was always in a book. So much so that when I was 16 and got my license, I didn't know how to get anywhere outside of my small town. It was okay to learn then, and learn I did. 
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For I will pour water on the thirsty land,
and streams on the dry ground;
I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring,
and my blessing on your descendants.
~Isaiah 44:3~
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 4:26:18 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 2345
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I've said before that in my opinion, 9 is a bit to young. 11 or 12 would be to my taste, but that's my personal opinion, and I don't think the mother was neglectful for training her son to use public transit alone a few years earlier then I would be comfortable doing.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 4:34:20 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 5107
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We used to walk or ride the bus all over the place. My parents refused to give us rides to friends houses, movies, mall, pool, etc. They never gave it a second thought.
The very walk (about 3/4 mile through a residential area) that we made everyday to school is something that my neices (ages 10 & 7) have never made. My sister refuses to let them make that walk, even though there are many kids on our block who do. Sis doesn't understand how I can be at peace about letting my 15 yo dd walk home from school everyday. She walks about a 1/3 of a mile through a residential area and small neighborhood park.
Different kids mature differently and different parents allow different things at different stages.
< Message edited by DenimDiva -- 4/7/2008 4:40:26 PM >
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 4:58:15 PM
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DenimDiva
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I only read the first page and this page of the thread.
What was the reason the mom felt this was important for her son to learn now? Was it just that they both felt he was ready or was there another reason?
What if she was/is a single working mom and this was the only way her son could get home from school?
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 8:55:29 PM
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W.O.F.
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the reason she felt it was important was because HE wanted to do it...and she felt he was ready.
One thing to keep in mind...a lot of people are freaking out about her doing it in NYC...but a recent experiment showed that in NYC people are actually MORE aware of what is happening with a small child than in the average small town. I can't remember which news show I was watching, but they did an experiment where a small child (about age 8) would yell help...in the small town park, people responded to the cry at about the third or fourth yell.....in NYC when they did the same experiment...people responded on the first yell...which would actually do more good because if someone is snatching a child..chances are they aren't going to give the kid 3 or 4 chances to yell.
While I would not let my child continually ride on the subway alone....I would not be against a prepared dry run like this IF the child was ready (I would however probably do the mommy PI thing and follow them unseen or get a friend to do so...).
I had two nephews get lost in NYC when they were 8 and 4 (in Central park no less) and within 20 minutes, not only were they safe at a police station, but my brother had them back in his arms....all because about 15 people saw two little kids crying in the park and went to help...and called a cop.
I think we tend to be more afraid of big cities than they deserve....and too confident in small towns.
_____________________________
"It is better to debate
an IMPORTANT matter without settling it
than to settle it without debating it"
~Anonymous~
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/8/2008 12:17:58 AM
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DenimDiva
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quote:
ORIGINAL: W.O.F.
I think we tend to be more afraid of big cities than they deserve....and too confident in small towns.
How very true!
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/8/2008 8:35:51 AM
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garsyt
Posts: 1962
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From: the bottom of the laundry basket
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quote:
Let kids be kids as long as they can I say, like Donna said, they have years to grow up and learn things.
I tend to agree with this, but each and every parent does things differently. There are things Donna (not picking on you but yours is the first name I saw) lets her eldest do that I would never even consider letting my child of the same age do and there are things I let my kids do that she wouldn't even consider an option right now.
It's not that those things are neccessarily wrong, but it's that we are different families and different families have different priorities, rules and requirements.
Blessings,
Garsy
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Leave me alone - I'm old and deserve a nap!
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/8/2008 9:07:07 AM
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Sunnymom
Posts: 1974
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I linked to the MTA website in post #101- it is clear to me that it is not considered illegal or neglectful for kids as young as 8 to ride the subway alone. They wouldn't have a policy and procedures in place if it was something NYC considered unacceptable.
If you watch the video or read the transcript on the MSNBC link I posted, NYC got a safety rating equal to that of Provo, Utah (if I remember it right). Apparently NYC isn't the same city portrayed in movies and television as The Murder Capital of the World. I bet LA or Washington DC get that dubious honor.
The interview with the mom makes it clear that this was something the boy wanted to do, and was prepared for.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/8/2008 9:44:44 AM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1917
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
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quote:
My parents refused to give us rides to friends houses, movies, mall, pool, etc.
See to me, that's my job!  I may grumble at times, but God has blessed us with a good paying job for dh and I can stay home and be home for everyone.
I remember being thrilled when my kids turned 10 because I could drop them off at the pool! They're both good swimmers and behave, well at least as far as I know because I've never gotten a phone call from the park district!  Anyway, we were first on our block to let the kids go to the park, a few blocks away, by themselves. This before cell phones were popular. I don't think I'd let my child ride the bus alone at 9, but I think my mom use to at a young age, back in the 50's.
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Deb
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/8/2008 9:52:15 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3274
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
If you watch the video or read the transcript on the MSNBC link I posted, NYC got a safety rating equal to that of Provo, Utah (if I remember it right). Apparently NYC isn't the same city portrayed in movies and television as The Murder Capital of the World. I bet LA or Washington DC get that dubious honor.
I feel much safer walking in NYC, alone, at night, than I do in the much smaller city I now call home.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/8/2008 11:15:27 AM
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Tinkerbell_
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I agree so much with those who say each situation is different for each kid.
Just recently my parents took my brother and I and our familes on a cruise. Everyone had room keys and since my boys had been on a cruise ship before they were allowed to roam at their discrection. My youngest son, Thing 2 who's 8, got turned around and ended up at the bottom of the ship. He merely asked the nearest steward for help, (which was quite interesting because the man had a very thick accent) and got back where he needed to be. He was level headed and mature enough to get help, follow directions, and get back to where he needed to go. This is also the same kid who lost his room key...not once, but twice.  On cruise ships those room keys are as good as your passport.
I'm shocked at how...judgmental (for lack of a better term) some people are behaving towards this mother. NYC is a completely different world than even Suburbia USA. You adapt to the culture. When I was 9 and 10 years old, I was able to hop on a city bus, go to downtown Honolulu, have lunch with friends, go to the beach, get back on the CORRECT bus and back home before dark just about everyday.
But I had never been exposed to things of the country so when someone took me 'snipe' hunting at the age of 14 I was quite lost and very scared. I ended up sitting on a dirt road bawling my eyes out until some old man in a beat up pick up truck stopped and picked me up. He bought me a snowcone and took me to my grandma's house. Come to find out I was only a block or so away from the edge of town so I wasn't too lost, but to this city girl I was in the middle of a jungle for all I knew.
I feel comfortable allowing my boys to roam the mall together alone (they're 11 and 8) yet I won't let them outside after dark. It's all a matter of perspective. *shrug*
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/8/2008 11:41:25 AM
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Ellie-Mae
Posts: 4255
Joined: 4/9/2005
From: The EMPIRE state!
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quote:
But I had never been exposed to things of the country so when someone took me 'snipe' hunting at the age of 14 I was quite lost and very scared.
LOL! You poor thing. Oh, Dear. Talking city kids snipe hunting is very popular county pass time.
I wouldn't allow my kids very many places by themselves. They have to take a buddy just to use the bathroom at a store or restaurant.
I think that the whole thing with Sarah Wood has affected mast folks where I live. I was almost abducted from my front yard by a stranger. Years later a boy that I knew was almost taken from his front yard (right around the corner from where Donna lives now). These were strangers in a tiny country town of a few hundred people. How rare is it really? I have to wonder if kidnappings by strangers are rarer because we are keeping our kids under better supervision then in the past.
_____________________________
Isaiah 40:29
He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/8/2008 2:33:24 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 5107
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quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
quote:
Let kids be kids as long as they can I say, like Donna said, they have years to grow up and learn things.
I tend to agree with this, but each and every parent does things differently. There are things Donna (not picking on you but yours is the first name I saw) lets her eldest do that I would never even consider letting my child of the same age do and there are things I let my kids do that she wouldn't even consider an option right now.
It's not that those things are neccessarily wrong, but it's that we are different families and different families have different priorities, rules and requirements.
Blessings,
Garsy
Well said.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/8/2008 8:51:22 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 1852
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
I linked to the MTA website in post #101- it is clear to me that it is not considered illegal or neglectful for kids as young as 8 to ride the subway alone. They wouldn't have a policy and procedures in place if it was something NYC considered unacceptable.
If you watch the video or read the transcript on the MSNBC link I posted, NYC got a safety rating equal to that of Provo, Utah (if I remember it right). Apparently NYC isn't the same city portrayed in movies and television as The Murder Capital of the World. I bet LA or Washington DC get that dubious honor.
The interview with the mom makes it clear that this was something the boy wanted to do, and was prepared for.
Actually D.C and Richmond VA fight for that dubious honor...even over L.A.
_____________________________
"It is better to debate
an IMPORTANT matter without settling it
than to settle it without debating it"
~Anonymous~
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/8/2008 8:53:05 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 1852
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: an ignoble beginning
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ellie-Mae
quote:
But I had never been exposed to things of the country so when someone took me 'snipe' hunting at the age of 14 I was quite lost and very scared.
LOL! You poor thing. Oh, Dear. Talking city kids snipe hunting is very popular county pass time.
I wouldn't allow my kids very many places by themselves. They have to take a buddy just to use the bathroom at a store or restaurant.
I think that the whole thing with Sarah Wood has affected mast folks where I live. I was almost abducted from my front yard by a stranger. Years later a boy that I knew was almost taken from his front yard (right around the corner from where Donna lives now). These were strangers in a tiny country town of a few hundred people. How rare is it really? I have to wonder if kidnappings by strangers are rarer because we are keeping our kids under better supervision then in the past.
actually kidnappings have risen in number due to parents being more confident that they are doing a better job of supervision...
_____________________________
"It is better to debate
an IMPORTANT matter without settling it
than to settle it without debating it"
~Anonymous~
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/8/2008 8:53:41 PM
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Ellie-Mae
Posts: 4255
Joined: 4/9/2005
From: The EMPIRE state!
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I remembered that about Richmond. I have relatives there, and so we are aware of this when we go to through places in Richmond that are unknown to us. I never watch the news when I am visiting there.
_____________________________
Isaiah 40:29
He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/8/2008 8:55:54 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 2345
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessGiselle
I feel comfortable allowing my boys to roam the mall together alone (they're 11 and 8) yet I won't let them outside after dark. It's all a matter of perspective. *shrug*
You're absolutely right. Now, my dad for example, was in the Florida mall when Adam Walsh was abducted (a boy who was horribly assaulted before he was murdered), so my dad was naturally a little more nervous about his kids in malls.
Just perspective.
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