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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 8:08:33 AM
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Consecrated2God
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This thread strikes me as strange. I've seen a lot of posts saying that the mother did a good thing here, and when threads have come up asking what age it's okay to leave your kids in the car when you run in the store, most of the people have said that they wouldn't leave a child younger than 12 in a car, or that 14 is too young to babysit. If you wouldn't leave a nine-year-old in the car for a few minutes while you run into the grocery store, why would you let her wander around the city by herself?
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<--Me at age fourteen
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 8:16:03 AM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10426
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I agree, Lisa. It seems like a huge double standard.
_____________________________
For I will pour water on the thirsty land,
and streams on the dry ground;
I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring,
and my blessing on your descendants.
~Isaiah 44:3~
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 8:26:00 AM
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CoeurdeLeon
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There's a difference between saying what *I* would be comfortable doing and telling someone else that they're wrong in what they're comfortable doing.
We protect our kids according to our fears and/or the likelihood of those fears being realized. The degree of our fear (all those "what ifs") directly affects how we raise our kids. While I believe that it's harmful to children to let parental fear override common sense, statistics and likelihood, I would never dream of telling another parent that they are wrong and overprotective. I don't understand why others feel they have the right to say that the mother in the OP was wrong in doing what she did when she clearly believed it was in the best interest of her child.
_____________________________
When I have a little money I buy Books.
If any left over I buy food and clothes.
Erasmus
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 8:38:40 AM
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Sunnymom
Posts: 1966
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
This thread strikes me as strange. I've seen a lot of posts saying that the mother did a good thing here, and when threads have come up asking what age it's okay to leave your kids in the car when you run in the store, most of the people have said that they wouldn't leave a child younger than 12 in a car, or that 14 is too young to babysit. If you wouldn't leave a nine-year-old in the car for a few minutes while you run into the grocery store, why would you let her wander around the city by herself?
I don't keep up with past posts and who said what when, so I can't answer that particular question. But I have a question- can we really make One-Size-Fits-All rules when people and situations are to varied to etch anything in stone? I think the author was within her rights to put her son to this test based on her knowledge of his capabilities. And she didn't let him loose to 'wander' the city. But can we really say 9 is too young, when we don't know the 9 yo? Can we say 14 is too young to babysit, when we don't know the 14 yo? Because 9 is too young for some kids to be alone anywhere, and 14 is too young for some sitters to watch a small infant, but not toddlers.
BTW, predators look for prey. They are looking for the lonely, frightened and vulnerable. They profile their victims just like a criminologist profiles bad guys. So a woman or child who appears confident and focused is not going to look like an easy mark. If the author's boy doesn't look and act like a victim, a predator is not going to perceive him as a victim.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 9:01:48 AM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
BTW, predators look for prey. They are looking for the lonely, frightened and vulnerable. They profile their victims just like a criminologist profiles bad guys. So a woman or child who appears confident and focused is not going to look like an easy mark. If the author's boy doesn't look and act like a victim, a predator is not going to perceive him as a victim.
Well put. I agree completely.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 9:03:14 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 1609
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
The problem is applying the "IF" factor to every aspect of your life, and none of us do that. More kids are molested by people they know- coaches, teachers, uncles, cousins, siblings, babysitters... than by strangers.
Living in fear is actually worse for kids than being too carefree, because anxiety about what might happen distracts us from responding to the dangers that are actually there. It also can prevent us from equipping our kids to handle potential situations by attempting to prevent every eventuality (which is not possible). If kids are thinking that the major danger will come from someone they don't know, they won't be prepared for unwelcome advances and inappropriate behavior from people who are care-givers and in other positions of trust and authority.
In spite of the fact that I know of a little girl was abducted from in front of her house, I let my kids play in the front yard, and even ride their bikes around the block. We talk about appropriate behavior from adults- ALL adults, and other children as well, as many child molesters are teens who are curious about sex and will experiment with their little brother's/sister's friends.
We must take reasonable precautions, but it is IMO more important to teach our kids how to live fearlessly and independently than to cocoon them.
Over protectiveness is not a result of applying the "What IF" factor to every aspect of our lives, that is something we all should do; over protectiveness is a result of not balancing the "What IF" factor with the "How Likely" and "How Bad" factors. If we stop our children from doing something because .0000001% percent of children have had something bad happen in that same circumstance then we really are teaching our children to fear unnecessarily, but if we stop our children from doing something because 50% of children have something really bad happen then we are being a responsible parent.
At 9 all of my children played outside alone, and even went down to the school and played alone, they rode their bikes around the neighborhood alone, etc... However, there is a big difference between how likely something might go wrong in those situations and how likely something might go wrong on a NY subway alone. You have spent a lot of time addressing the risk of molestation or abduction, but these are not really the biggest risks. The biggest risk to a 9 year old is that something unpredictable can happen and put the kid in a situation that he is not ready to handle. Most, I would assume, understand that a 5 year old is not ready for a trip like this because they apply the "What IF", "How Likely", and "How Bad" factors and realize the danger is far too great, at 9 years old I still believe the danger is too great to risk putting a child in this situation on purpose. If I lived in NY I would have been teaching my children how to ride the subway system for years by the time they were 9, but I assure you that at 9 I would not intentionally let them do it alone.
While I believe very strongly in preparing my children to handle any situation they might face, I also want to teach my children the wisdom to understand the difference between something they CAN do and something they SHOULD do. Something I tell my kids often is "Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do it". As an example, my oldest son has National titles on both Mountain and Road bikes. I have taught him the skills that would allow him to likely be able to safely ride his bike off of the roof of our home; however, I taught him these skills so that he would be prepared to handle any really bad situation that might arise in one of his races and hopefully avoid a bad crash, not so he could try something so STUPID.
While I strongly agree with your statement that "We must take reasonable precautions, but it is IMO more important to teach our kids how to live fearlessly and independently than to cocoon them.", I do strongly question the reasonableness of putting a 9 year old on a NY subway alone.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 9:08:59 AM
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PrincessDonna
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I think the reactions would be a lot different if we were talking about a 12 year old instead of a 9 year old. I would see this as a much more appropriate thing to do at that age, and I still think it would have been better done with another 12 year old with him.
_____________________________
For I will pour water on the thirsty land,
and streams on the dry ground;
I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring,
and my blessing on your descendants.
~Isaiah 44:3~
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 9:17:00 AM
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Sunnymom
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I agree benelchi- we must balance the "What If" with the "How Likely" etc... which was kinda' my point. Kids are more likely to die eating a hot dog than being abducted, and a child alone on a subway is not more likely to be a victim than a child in school. That is our perception, but it is not the reality, and that is one of the points of this thread that we need to understand.
When our perceptions, and what we think is intuitive is inaccurate, then we are protecting our kids from dangers that are not likely and ignoring the dangers that are. 80% of children who are molested are victims of someone they know. That is an overwhelming number, isn't it? And yet how many parents are vetting teachers and staff at school, the parents and siblings of families they regularly associate with, and their own relatives?
I am not saying that the average 9 yo is ready to ride a subway alone, but her son could and did, and I believe it was based on her intimate knowledge of her son. I think we need to be careful about 'blaming' the victim or the victim's parents here as well. If something bad had happened to her son, was it something that could have happened if he was playing in his yard? Lying in his bed? Just ask Elizabeth Smart or Jessica Lunsford about that.
We must compare our perceptions to the reality of where the actual risks lie, and prepare our kids accordingly.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 9:19:10 AM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
There's a difference between saying what *I* would be comfortable doing and telling someone else that they're wrong in what they're comfortable doing.
I didn't say she was wrong. I believe I said she had the IQ of a gnat. So, I have to apologize to the gnats. 
quote:
We protect our kids according to our fears and/or the likelihood of those fears being realized. The degree of our fear (all those "what ifs") directly affects how we raise our kids. While I believe that it's harmful to children to let parental fear override common sense, statistics and likelihood,
No, we protect our children out of WISDOM and COMMON SENSE based on potential for harm. I suspect most of those saying the woman was right have never stepped foot in New York City, much less ridden the subway system. We ain't talking Mayberry here.
quote:
I would never dream of telling another parent that they are wrong and overprotective. I don't understand why others feel they have the right to say that the mother in the OP was wrong in doing what she did when she clearly believed it was in the best interest of her child.
No? We have mothers in DC that think it's in the best interest of their child to toke a few puffs with mom and boyfriend. We've had others think it was in the best interest of their child to go into the back bedroom with their mother's boyfriend. Those who believe mother is always right should come visit with me to a few Headstart Centers and they might lose that Mayberry view of motherhood.
Why in the world do you think we have CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES?
Again, I apologize to the gnats.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 4/7/2008 9:28:21 AM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 9:35:23 AM
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Sunnymom
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quote:
We have mothers in DC that think it's in the best interest of their child to toke a few puffs with mom and boyfriend. We've had others think it was in the best interest of their child to go into the back bedroom with their mother's boyfriend. Those who believe mother is always right should come visit with me to a few Headstart Centers and they might lose that Mayberry view of motherhood.
T- we aren't talking about actions that are clearly damaging and illegal. This thread isn't about abusing children, so please stay on topic.
And btw- kids aren't 'safe' just because they are in Mayberry.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 9:47:03 AM
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CoeurdeLeon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
There's a difference between saying what *I* would be comfortable doing and telling someone else that they're wrong in what they're comfortable doing.
I didn't say she was wrong. I believe I said she had the IQ of a gnat. So, I have to apologize to the gnats.
quote:
quote:
We protect our kids according to our fears and/or the likelihood of those fears being realized. The degree of our fear (all those "what ifs") directly affects how we raise our kids. While I believe that it's harmful to children to let parental fear override common sense, statistics and likelihood,
No, we protect our children out of WISDOM and COMMON SENSE based on potential for harm. I suspect most of those saying the woman was right have never stepped foot in New York City, much less ridden the subway system. We ain't talking Mayberry here.
I'd like to think it's wisdom and common sense but I think there are many parents who let their fears override both. Just as there are parents who let neglect and unconcern override both. Balance is the key and that is very likely to be different for each family, each child within that family and each set of circumstances.
quote:
quote:
I would never dream of telling another parent that they are wrong and overprotective. I don't understand why others feel they have the right to say that the mother in the OP was wrong in doing what she did when she clearly believed it was in the best interest of her child.
No? We have mothers in DC that think it's in the best interest of their child to toke a few puffs with mom and boyfriend. We've had others think it was in the best interest of their child to go into the back bedroom with their mother's boyfriend. Those who believe mother is always right should come visit with me to a few Headstart Centers and they might lose that Mayberry view of motherhood.
Why in the world do you think we have CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES?
Again, I apologize to the gnats.
Well, I guess I made an assumption. I assumed that a columnist from The Sun wasn't in the same category as the mothers you've mentioned. Perhaps that makes me stupider than a gnat, too.
I certainly don't hold to the "the mother is always right" theory nor do I have a Mayberry view of motherhood. I just don't see how I can make a judgment about someone else's parenting skills or what they should or should not do based on a newspaper column. Not knowing her or her son personally, I'm going to lean toward giving her the benefit of the doubt.
Just my gnat-brained opinion.
_____________________________
When I have a little money I buy Books.
If any left over I buy food and clothes.
Erasmus
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 9:54:30 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 1609
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
I agree benelchi- we must balance the "What If" with the "How Likely" etc... which was kinda' my point. Kids are more likely to die eating a hot dog than being abducted, and a child alone on a subway is not more likely to be a victim than a child in school. That is our perception, but it is not the reality, and that is one of the points of this thread that we need to understand.
When our perceptions, and what we think is intuitive is inaccurate, then we are protecting our kids from dangers that are not likely and ignoring the dangers that are. 80% of children who are molested are victims of someone they know. That is an overwhelming number, isn't it? And yet how many parents are vetting teachers and staff at school, the parents and siblings of families they regularly associate with, and their own relatives?
It seems that the only risk you have considered is that of molestation; however, I think that is a small risk compared to many others that could present themselves on a NY subway. The biggest risk is simply getting lost, and while it is true that a lost kid will likely be found, it may take the involvement of the police to find him, and it may set the kid up to be unnecessarily fearful of the subway system in the future. And on a different note you said that predators "are looking for the lonely, frightened and vulnerable.", do you realize you just described about every lost 9 year old?
From a different perspective, your use of statistics here is completely invalid. While it is important for kids to understand that molestation is far more likely to occur with someone they know, than it is with a stranger, that statistic cannot be extrapolated to cover this case. It is like saying that kangaroos are far more likely to be killed by poachers in Australia that they are in Kansas; while statistically this is true, it doesn't necessarily mean the Kangaroos in Kansas are safer, it just means that there are so few wild Kangaroos in Kansas that no one has tried to study the risk. That extrapolation may be correct or it may be entirely invalid.
quote:
I am not saying that the average 9 yo is ready to ride a subway alone, but her son could and did, and I believe it was based on her intimate knowledge of her son. I think we need to be careful about 'blaming' the victim or the victim's parents here as well. If something bad had happened to her son, was it something that could have happened if he was playing in his yard? Lying in his bed? Just ask Elizabeth Smart or Jessica Lunsford about that.
We must compare our perceptions to the reality of where the actual risks lie, and prepare our kids accordingly.
Again if I lived in NY and regularly took the subway, I can assure you that my children by age 9 WOULD be able to ride the subway alone if circumstances required it; however, that doesn't mean that they SHOULD do it. I would prepare them for such a circumstance, but hope they were never required (at the age of 9) to prove that they could do it. I applaud this mother for preparing her son to ride the subway alone, but a greatly question her judgment in allowing him to be intentionally put in that situation.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 10:00:21 AM
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Sideways
Posts: 2297
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
When our perceptions, and what we think is intuitive is inaccurate, then we are protecting our kids from dangers that are not likely and ignoring the dangers that are.
You mean like how kids are far more likely to die from drowning in a pool, then being shot by a gun, but lots of parents refuse to let their children play in a house with a gun, but have no problem letting their kid play in a house that has a pool?
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 10:04:43 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4856
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
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quote:
I think the reactions would be a lot different if we were talking about a 12 year old instead of a 9 year old. I would see this as a much more appropriate thing to do at that age, and I still think it would have been better done with another 12 year old with him.
I agree. I think nine is too young for that.
quote:
T- we aren't talking about actions that are clearly damaging and illegal. This thread isn't about abusing children, so please stay on topic.
I don't think his point was about being abusive per se, but about not every judging the parenting decisions of others. I do believe in parental rights, and although I personally think her decision was less than wise, I wouldn't be calling CPS on her. I believe she had the right do it, stupid as it was. Of course, if the same mother had left her 9-year old in the car while she ran into the post office for a minute, someone would have called the police, but it wouldn't have been me.
_____________________________
<--Me at age fourteen
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 10:18:21 AM
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Sunnymom
Posts: 1966
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
And on a different note you said that predators "are looking for the lonely, frightened and vulnerable.", do you realize you just described about every lost 9 year old?
No, it doesn't. I know some 9 yos who would be fine in such a situation, because they have been taught not to panic and how to find help. Just as I was fine alone in the woods for hours, knowing that there were snakes and bears and mountain lions, the likelihood of an attack was minimal, and I didn't stay home for fear of what might happen.
quote:
From a different perspective, your use of statistics here is completely invalid. While it is important for kids to understand that molestation is far more likely to occur with someone they know, than it is with a stranger, that statistic cannot be extrapolated to cover this case. It is like saying that kangaroos are far more likely to be killed by poachers in Australia that they are in Kansas; while statistically this is true, it doesn't necessarily mean the Kangaroos in Kansas are safer, it just means that there are so few wild Kangaroos in Kansas that no one has tried to study the risk. That extrapolation may be correct or it may be entirely invalid.
This whole conversation is based on the likelihood of a child coming to harm or being abducted from a subway because he was alone. 'Likelihood' is based on statistical averages, so statistics are valid for use in weighing risks, and the point is that we often make decisions based on our perceptions of risk rather than the reality of risk.
quote:
Again if I lived in NY and regularly took the subway, I can assure you that my children by age 9 WOULD be able to ride the subway alone if circumstances required it; however, that doesn't mean that they SHOULD do it. I would prepare them for such a circumstance, but hope they were never required (at the age of 9) to prove that they could do it. I applaud this mother for preparing her son to ride the subway alone, but a greatly question her judgment in allowing him to be intentionally put in that situation.
I agree that just because something could be done doesn't mean it should- Evil Kneivel comes to mind. But every book and website I have read instructs parents to exercise their children in these situations so that they can do more than theorize about what they would do when faced with a difficult situation. Most of them don't recommend that a child be completely alone, and in any exercise with my kids, I am always in a position to observe, such as sending them inside a store while I stand outside watching the exit- but there is a back door, isn't there? They ride their bikes around the block but they have cell phones- but they could still get hit by a careless driver, right? So we are still weighing the reality of living our lives vs. the risks we take every day with what we consider to be 'normal' behaviors.
The author does go farther with her son than I would with mine, but after reading the article I am with CdeLeon that she gets the benefit of the doubt from me.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 10:20:49 AM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 6491
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quote:
No? We have mothers in DC that think it's in the best interest of their child to toke a few puffs with mom and boyfriend. We've had others think it was in the best interest of their child to go into the back bedroom with their mother's boyfriend. Those who believe mother is always right should come visit with me to a few Headstart Centers and they might lose that Mayberry view of motherhood.
Besides not talking about clearly damaging and/or illegal actions, this is an unfair comparison IMO. The mothers in your example probably don't think it's in their child's best interest. They simply don't think or care. Period. That's a whole 'nother animal than what we're talking about here.
I don't think that we can't or shouldn't judge parenting decisions in ALL cases. Things like the above examples are completely and totally reprehensible.
I just think that making statements and judgments about other parent's decisions when 1) we don't know them or their child and 2) it isn't clearly damaging or illegal and 3) they have thought it through and have come to a conclusion based on what they know about the dangers and their own child, that it's the same as someone telling a homeschooling mom that she is in the wrong just because they don't homeschool themselves and can think of a million "reasons" why it shouldn't be done and provide anecdotal evidence or even some kind of statistical evidence to support their judgment.
_____________________________
When I have a little money I buy Books.
If any left over I buy food and clothes.
Erasmus
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 10:23:47 AM
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stellaluna
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I have been to New York City and I have navigated the subway AND I have seen children riding alone, some of whom appeared to be younger than 9. In fact, the last time I was there, we rode a train from Coney Island into Manhattan (which is quite a long ride) with two girls--sisters, probably--who appeared to be about 8 and 10 years old. I have also seen young children playing on the streets in front of their buildings and in Central Park with no supervision. To millions of people, THIS IS MAYBERRY. It is a different lifestyle. This is how the parents and grandparents and great-grandparents grew up. These kids have no more fear than yours do playing in their own backyard. So by age 9, I think being able to navigate the subway and return home is not a stretch for a NYC child.
Likewise, I think by age 9, a child growing up on a farm would be responsible enough to milk cows and do other chores, possibly with farm implements your average parent might consider dangerous. I do know some kids around here who are allowed to ride four-wheelers and dirt bikes at age 4. I've known a couple of kids who were driving pick-up trucks around the family farm by age 10 and others driving back and forth to town at age 12. It's all relative.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 10:25:01 AM
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Sunnymom
Posts: 1966
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
When our perceptions, and what we think is intuitive is inaccurate, then we are protecting our kids from dangers that are not likely and ignoring the dangers that are.
You mean like how kids are far more likely to die from drowning in a pool, then being shot by a gun, but lots of parents refuse to let their children play in a house with a gun, but have no problem letting their kid play in a house that has a pool?
Yes- that is a good example. I heard something on the radio today about a kid who got expelled from school because he got magic marker on his shirt, and he sniffed at the mark. The teacher said he was trying to get high 'huffing' his shirt. This is a prime example of adults who have lost their cotton pickin' minds based on paranoia and fear rather than sense. It's like a new brand of hypochondria.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 10:33:08 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4856
Joined: 4/4/2005
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quote:
I just think that making statements and judgments about other parent's decisions when 1) we don't know them or their child and 2) it isn't clearly damaging or illegal and 3) they have thought it through and have come to a conclusion based on what they know about the dangers and their own child, that it's the same as someone telling a homeschooling mom that she is in the wrong just because they don't homeschool themselves and can think of a million "reasons" why it shouldn't be done and provide anecdotal evidence or even some kind of statistical evidence to support their judgment.
Well, the question was asked, so I don't think it's wrong in this case to make our statements and judgments concerning her parenting decision.  That's kind of the purpose of the forum, isn't it? Kind of like the thread on the Dugger family. There were plenty of people discussing their parenting decisions, too. I think she was kind of asking for it, too, by letting someone write an article on it.
In general, whether or not I would tell another parent if I thought their parenting decisions stupid or not would depend on the relationship I had with that person. It's not wrong to have an opinion, but whether or not we share it depends on the circumstances.
I do not believe that stupidity should be criminalized. However, if something had happened to the child, I think the mother probably should be held partially responsible.
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<--Me at age fourteen
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 10:36:09 AM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2921
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I have been to New York City and I have navigated the subway AND I have seen children riding alone, some of whom appeared to be younger than 9. In fact, the last time I was there, we rode a train from Coney Island into Manhattan (which is quite a long ride) with two girls--sisters, probably--who appeared to be about 8 and 10 years old. I have also seen young children playing on the streets in front of their buildings and in Central Park with no supervision. To millions of people, THIS IS MAYBERRY. It is a different lifestyle. This is how the parents and grandparents and great-grandparents grew up. These kids have no more fear than yours do playing in their own backyard. So by age 9, I think being able to navigate the subway and return home is not a stretch for a NYC child.
Likewise, I think by age 9, a child growing up on a farm would be responsible enough to milk cows and do other chores, possibly with farm implements your average parent might consider dangerous. I do know some kids around here who are allowed to ride four-wheelers and dirt bikes at age 4. I've known a couple of kids who were driving pick-up trucks around the family farm by age 10 and others driving back and forth to town at age 12. It's all relative.
Stella, you have given my thoughts exactly!
We can not sit in our homes in the middle of Kansas and say this mother was wrong. We have to put ourselves in HER position and the lifestyle her family lives in order to make the call whether it is right or wrong.
I do live in the middle of Kansas, and hear every year about a child on a combine getting killed, or their hand torn off, or some other horrible farming tragedy.
Does that make the parents wrong for allowing their child to work the fields with dad or grandpa?
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~Kimmie
When you go through menopause they don't tell you what you are becoming. I think I'm becoming my Dad.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 10:38:32 AM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 6491
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
Status: offline
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quote:
Well, the question was asked, so I don't think it's wrong in this case to make our statements and judgments concerning her parenting decision.
Okay, I'll go along with that.
I guess I just look at it as I'd rather make a statement about what I would or wouldn't do rather than say someone else is wrong for doing what they do.
To me, it's the difference between..
"I wouldn't do that"
and
"She was wrong to do that"
Does that make sense?
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When I have a little money I buy Books.
If any left over I buy food and clothes.
Erasmus
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 10:55:09 AM
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Sunnymom
Posts: 1966
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
quote:
However, if something had happened to the child, I think the mother probably should be held partially responsible.
And since nothing did happen, does she get the same courtesy? 
There is that aspect of reaping the consequences of placing oneself at risk. But what is risk? Jogging alone? Going out late at night? Wearing a short skirt? We see it in rape cases all the time- at what point do we legitimately 'blame the victim'? Aren't we just holding the crucifix of blame in front of us in an attempt to repel the vampire of tragedy? IOW, If the person does something wrong, and if we don't do what they did, then we have some kind of immunity?
Fact is, rapists target old women, young women, fat women, skinny women.... they are looking for victims, not sex. So those who victimize children are looking for victims, and a child is vulnerable regardless of their location. What they need are the tools to reasonably reduce their risk and to deal with the situations they are faced with. Since most kids are victimized by those they know and not creeps on a subway, we need to acknowledge and guard against what is most likely to happen, and I find that most parents are guarding against strange weirdos lurking in the bushes instead of the basketball coach or Uncle Fred.
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RE: Why I Let My 9 Year Old Ride The Subway Alone - 4/7/2008 10:56:09 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 1609
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
Well, the question was asked, so I don't think it's wrong in this case to make our statements and judgments concerning her parenting decision.
Okay, I'll go along with that.
I guess I just look at it as I'd rather make a statement about what I would or wouldn't do rather than say someone else is wrong for doing what they do.
To me, it's the difference between..
"I wouldn't do that"
and
"She was wrong to do that"
Does that make sense?
There I times when "I wouldn't do that" is the appropriate response, and there are times that "She was wrong to do that" is the appropriate response. In this case I would lean much more towards the latter response.
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