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Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited?
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Total Votes : 64
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(last vote on : 4/24/2008 5:00:34 PM)
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 6:43:55 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2529
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Self-righteous Christians have done more to lead people away from the faith than to it!
You have a verse to support this claim? I see it posted a lot and never supported with scripture...
John
How does some of the preposterous allegations that are leveled on this forum build up the body of Christ? If a non-Christian sees someone bitterly make a preposterous accusation (such as the idea that the Pope had 150 million protestants killed in the middle ages) against another Christian, how does that shine the light of the truth of the Gospel into their hearts?
The bible says what about non-Christians? How do they view God and His people, even at their best? I believe words like foolishness and hate are used...
The statement: Self-righteous Christians have done more to lead people away from the faith than to it! is hyperbole and not founded in much truth... It's a nice sound bite and typically used to justify actions such as support for abortion, homosexuals and other ungodly behavior... And my evidence of this can be found on this very forum...
Btw... Since you brought it up perceptions. What do you think people think of the sex scandal and the subsequent cover up that of course led to even more children being raped? And please don’t try to push this away with some claim of preposterous allegations.
John
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 6:56:15 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1490
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Self-righteous Christians have done more to lead people away from the faith than to it!
You have a verse to support this claim? I see it posted a lot and never supported with scripture...
John
How does some of the preposterous allegations that are leveled on this forum build up the body of Christ? If a non-Christian sees someone bitterly make a preposterous accusation (such as the idea that the Pope had 150 million protestants killed in the middle ages) against another Christian, how does that shine the light of the truth of the Gospel into their hearts?
The bible says what about non-Christians? How do they view God and His people, even at their best? I believe words like foolishness and hate are used...
The statement: Self-righteous Christians have done more to lead people away from the faith than to it! is hyperbole and not founded in much truth... It's a nice sound bite and typically used to justify actions such as support for abortion, homosexuals and other ungodly behavior... And my evidence of this can be found on this very forum...
Btw... Since you brought it up perceptions. What do you think people think of the sex scandal and the subsequent cover up that of course led to even more children being raped? And please don’t try to push this away with some claim of preposterous allegations.
John
OK. It caused me to leave the church for a few years because I saw these self-righteous hypocrits acting in a fashion that I can only consider evil. They take every opportunity to exclude "I'm saved, you're not because....." Then I realized that the church is made up of SINNERS (including me) and only Jesus is perfect. Then I became more tolerant of my brother's speck because Jesus wants ME to remove MY PLANK!!!
So I will not judge anyone, Christian or non-Christian as warranting eternal damnation. I won't be so presumptuous as to usurp GOD's authority as Judge!
Ghandhi's famous quote, "I'll become a Christian when I finally meet one." shows that globally Christians don't have all that great of an image.
BTW, found this web page on church membership numbers over the years.
http://www.demographia.com/db-religusa2002.htm
< Message edited by mapachito13 -- 4/17/2008 7:04:46 PM >
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 7:07:46 PM
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martyfran
Posts: 525
Joined: 7/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Btw... Since you brought it up perceptions. What do you think people think of the sex scandal and the subsequent cover up that of course led to even more children being raped? And please don’t try to push this away with some claim of preposterous allegations.
John
People should be outraged at the sex scandal. The abuse of children in that way is wrong, whether done by a Catholic priest, a Protestant youth minister or a school teacher. It can never be justified. Of course, you hear the same thing from Pope Benedict as well.
Now, are you saying that it is perfectly appropriate to make allegations that have no basis in fact, just because those allegations are against the Catholic Church? For example, we have a claim that the Vatican ordered 150 million protestants killed during the middle ages. Are you saying there is nothing wrong with making such a claim? This is a simple question requiring a yes or no answer. So what it it, yes or no?
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 7:27:55 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 793
Joined: 7/31/2007
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quote:
People should be outraged at the sex scandal. The abuse of children in that way is wrong, whether done by a Catholic priest, a Protestant youth minister or a school teacher. It can never be justified. Of course, you hear the same thing from Pope Benedict as well.
Sure I do. Then I see that he was part of the coverup, see that the people who are guilty of abusing children are retired in style while he protects them from criminal prosecution, see that instead of censuring the bishop who is known to have been guilty of reshuffling pedophile priests to open even more children to abuse, he has placed that bishop in his entourage.
The phrase "whitewashed tomb" comes to mind.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 7:55:04 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2529
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
OK. It caused me to leave the church for a few years because I saw these self-righteous hypocrits acting in a fashion that I can only consider evil. They take every opportunity to exclude "I'm saved, you're not because....."
It gave you an excuse.... They are responsible for their behavior but no less than you were for leaving...
quote:
Ghandhi's famous quote, "I'll become a Christian when I finally meet one." shows that globally Christians don't have all that great of an image.
You quote a self professed idolater who had no love for God or true love for fellow man regarding the view of God's people...
I have to believe an enemy of God isn't going to have a unbias view of His people...
quote:
BTW, found this web page on church membership numbers over the years.
http://www.demographia.com/db-religusa2002.htm
The number don't speak to why...
John
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 8:00:32 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2529
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
People should be outraged at the sex scandal. The abuse of children in that way is wrong, whether done by a Catholic priest, a Protestant youth minister or a school teacher. It can never be justified. Of course, you hear the same thing from Pope Benedict as well.
Talk is cheap... The Vatican was part of the means that hid priests and the FACT that some priests and bishops were protected by the church is beyond any sound biblical reasoning and REAMAINS a problem to this day.... The desire to save the church led to more children being raped... And for the cherry on top the name of God was invoked in all this... You don't think there is a price to pay for such behavior? And I am not talking about money...
quote:
Now, are you saying that it is perfectly appropriate to make allegations that have no basis in fact, just because those allegations are against the Catholic Church? For example, we have a claim that the Vatican ordered 150 million protestants killed during the middle ages. Are you saying there is nothing wrong with making such a claim? This is a simple question requiring a yes or no answer. So what it it, yes or no?
Of course it's wrong to make unfounded allegations, but the bigger problem facing the Roman Catholic Church is it's own actions not unfounded allegations lobbed by whomever...
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 4/17/2008 8:09:06 PM >
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 9:37:18 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1606
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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Greetings,
If you like truth, here is a good link
LINK
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 10:55:40 PM
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martyfran
Posts: 525
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
Greetings,
If you like truth, here is a good link
LINK
LG
Perhaps you could summarize the point of the video for us.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 12:08:46 AM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1683
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
Greetings,
If you like truth, here is a good link
LINK
LG
I am pretty sure we are well past the age of the prophets.
_____________________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Engineers believe that "if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
features yet
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 2:49:36 AM
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Leon_Figg3
Posts: 435
Joined: 4/24/2005
Status: offline
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As some other posters have pointed out, it is really disheartening to see and hear how quick we Cristians are to bash and find fault with one another, find fault with one denomination or another. It is no wonder that many non-Christians see Christianity as a bunch of myths, and us Christians as a bunch of phonies. We don't remember where we came from and how Jesus has worked in our lives through various people and various denominations.
We forget that the Catholic church, as well as all the other Christian denominations are man-made institutions established so that God may work His will through its members. However, because they are man-made, each and every denomination is vulnerable to sin and capable of doing great wrong.
Yes the sex scandals that have plagued the church, in recent years, has been bad, by the expectations and standards we seem to hold the church to today. Peophilia has long been a issue and a problem in the church. When the issue has come up, the church, like it has handled most other issues throughout the years, seeks to address the issue "in house". To many people that is not good enough. My question would be; has society, as a whole, really managed to addresse the ssue any better?
Years ago, my favorite aunt-a nun, was said to have told my mother that what goes on within the walls of the church, is not all that different that what happens in the rest of society.
I was born and raised a Roman Catholic. I remember growing up questioning the church's interrpretation of the Bible. I grew up troubled by the church's history and influence. I also grew up amased and astonished by what I learned of God's great love for us humans, and the price His son Jesus payed to demonstrate that love. I grew up interested and inspired by the many saints who sought a relationship not with the church so much as a relationship with Jesus and God. They were rewarded as they allowed Jesus to work through them. In the end, I have come to realize that despite. (maybe even because of' its faults), the Cathlic church has been greatly used by God over the centuries. (ie we probably would not have the Bible as we know it, if it wasn't for the Catholic church)
The bottom line is that, in any man-made institution you have to take the good and the bad
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 8:58:15 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10840
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
He had some really cool red shoes. In my own opinion, this ranks as one of the best posts in the whole thread. 
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 10:04:38 AM
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jbow
Posts: 837
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: jbow
That would be me.
You are right that many of these things are hard to prove because the Vatican will not open it's books. There are the allegations of laundered nazi wealth stolen from jews. There is all the wealth that came into the catholic church in the middle ages, not to mention the reports of about 150 million people, (protestants), tortured and killed in the midle ages.
So, I apologize for stating things as facts that I cannot prove. I do not want to do that but I still believe them to be true, that is my opinion.
I will continue to research but I don't expect to find concrete evidence because they would not leave it out there for all to see, sometimes you have to read between the lines.
In any case the truth will one day be known. Until then I will have my opinions and will have no use for a pope or for the strange teachings of the RC.
Again, to the OP... no I am not excited, I am poped out. I'll be happy when he goes away.
On the "all pope all the time news" yesterday I saw a street interview with a young lady about why she wanted to see the pope parade. I thought it was really sad. She thinks that the pope has some kind of magical powers. She actually said that she hoped seeing him would give her faith and make her want to go back to church... it sounds like idolatry to me.
In all this, I mean no offense to you personally. I believe that there are Christians in the catholic church but I do not view the pope as a Christian leader.
As far as all the art. I see no justification for keeping it when it could be sold and he money used to help. (No, I am not Judas and neither is the catholic church Jesus). It, the art, will all be burned up one day anyway. All of it's value will then be lost. It does not become a church to hold great wealth.
J
I accept your apology. I am happy to help you with your sanctification  .
As to your 150 million protestants killed by the pope, can you provide a citation of where you got your data? As has already been addressed, the number seems quite high. It would seem to suggest that you tend to take anything negative you hear about the Catholic Church at face value. I think the body of Christ would be much better off if we developed some better critical thinking skills.
Yeah, I wasn't there so I don't know. In any case, lots of people were tortured and killed for "heresy".
Now, Geneva was not a place I would have wanted to live either. From what I have heard Calvin was quite intolerant.
My problem with the RC church is doctrinal. I will not go into that here. I will say that any organization as large as the RC church and that has existed as long as they have has the problem of mankind. Anything as large as the RC church and asw old will, by the nature of men in this world, have been and will be corrupted. Because of men.
Personally, I think that they should sell their art and gold. I see no proper use of it for a church. I just don't think that the Lord intended for the church to set itself up as a nation and to hold such power and wealth.
The doctrinal issues, the things that men have made up and added to scripture make me suspect about the wealth and power.
I need no help with my sanctification. Sanctification is the work of God, through faith, not the work of man.
J
< Message edited by jbow -- 4/18/2008 10:53:01 AM >
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 10:51:57 AM
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martyfran
Posts: 525
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Yeah, I wasn't there so I don't know. In any case, lots of people were tortured and killed for "heresy".
If you don't know, then why did you bring up the subject in the first place? You make an allegation that is preposterous on its face, and then when you are called on it, you claim that you don't know anything about what happened in the middle ages. It would seem that if you were really interested in the truth you would think and do a little research before you made such comments. How does your behavior build up the body of Christ?
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 12:50:06 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1490
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
You quote a self professed idolater who had no love for God or true love for fellow man regarding the view of God's people...
I have to believe an enemy of God isn't going to have a unbias view of His people...
Sorry. I forgot Jesus only died for true believers like yourself. Obviously Ghandhi felt that all the Christians he came in contact with were hypocrits. India was under the control of a "Christian" nation at the time.
quote:
quote:
BTW, found this web page on church membership numbers over the years.
http://www.demographia.com/db-religusa2002.htm
The number don't speak to why...
John
Why would anyone leave a church? They are not finding God there would be my first choice. That or it's football season.
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 1:32:25 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 1923
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline
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Martyrfan,
This really isn't the thread to discuss middle ages. Maybe it would be best to just let it go?
_____________________________
-Ben-
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 3:28:32 PM
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martyfran
Posts: 525
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
Martyrfan,
This really isn't the thread to discuss middle ages. Maybe it would be best to just let it go?
Actually, if you look back in this thread, I am not the one who brought up the middle ages. I just asked for proof regarding some of the rediculous allegations that were brought up by others. The relevant question is: If Christians really are supposed to be pursuing the truth, why is there such a reckless disregard for the truth when it comes to the Catholic Church?
To suggest that the Catholic Church had 150 million protestants killed during the middle ages is dishonest. It is dishonest, because the poster could have easily looked into the issue before making the claim. One of the commandments is to avoid bearing false witness against your neighbor. If you make a statement, and you don't bother to check your facts first, how is that not bearing false witness? After all, as you said, the middle ages is not relevant to this thread, so why did the poster have to make such a false statement?
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 3:51:11 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10840
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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More to the point of what this thread is about....
Tancredo to pope: Stop promoting amnesty
quote:
The pontiff, asked by reporters on his flight to the U.S. Tuesday if he would address Hispanic immigration, said the U.S. must do "everything possible to fight ... all forms of violence so that immigrants may lead dignified lives."
Tancredo, a former Catholic, told House colleagues, "I would like to know what part of our lax immigration policy is considered 'violent.' I fail to see how accepting more refugees than any other nation while providing free health care, free education, free housing and free social service benefits to millions of illegal aliens in this country is any way 'degrading' to them or 'undignified.'"
Tancredo also took exception to the pope telling U.S. bishops Wednesday in Washington, "I want to encourage you and your communities to continue to welcome the immigrants who join your ranks today, to share their joys and hopes, to support them in their sorrows and trials and to help them flourish in their new home."
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 4:03:02 PM
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WesP
Posts: 1761
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
More to the point of what this thread is about....
Tancredo to pope: Stop promoting amnesty
quote:
The pontiff, asked by reporters on his flight to the U.S. Tuesday if he would address Hispanic immigration, said the U.S. must do "everything possible to fight ... all forms of violence so that immigrants may lead dignified lives."
Tancredo, a former Catholic, told House colleagues, "I would like to know what part of our lax immigration policy is considered 'violent.' I fail to see how accepting more refugees than any other nation while providing free health care, free education, free housing and free social service benefits to millions of illegal aliens in this country is any way 'degrading' to them or 'undignified.'"
Tancredo also took exception to the pope telling U.S. bishops Wednesday in Washington, "I want to encourage you and your communities to continue to welcome the immigrants who join your ranks today, to share their joys and hopes, to support them in their sorrows and trials and to help them flourish in their new home."
The end is near! The Pope is taking over the US and changing our laws! 
This truly does cause hostility. Everyone has a judgment of everyone else. Sawdust and planks aside, where is the truth in that first judgment?
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
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<--- BTW, this is the true function of corn! It is to help the oil industry and its functionaries, not detract from them!
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 4:20:47 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10840
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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If the Vatican was being overrun and overwhelmed by the torrent of non-citizens that we are seeing I think the Pope might be playing a different tune. No doubt his holiness might be asking for help from parishes of the world...
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 4:54:54 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10840
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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I didn't say he was going to violently force the parishes to give money.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 5:46:15 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1490
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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The Pope seem to have 100% of the people on this board excited (annoyed?) at him being in America.
With three out of four people not excited or marking "Who" it interesting that this is the third most active thread (with fourth place not even close) behind two long running threads "homosexuality" and "Israel in the News".
Seems like all of us who marked "no" (myself included) were fibbing! 
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 9:40:48 PM
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Leon_Figg3
Posts: 435
Joined: 4/24/2005
Status: offline
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mapachito13,
I tend to disaggree that the poll shows who marked "no" were fibbing. I think that it shows that those who marked no to the question actually are not excited but they are not sure why, or why anyone should be. The pope is a head of state, and he is also the head of a religion recognized around the world. In many cases Pope Benedict's predecessors quickly put their mark on the position they held. I do not believe Pope Benedict has other than as being the head of state.
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 9:52:02 PM
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Lurker
Posts: 732
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Silver Spring, MD
Status: offline
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CHRISTOS VOSKRESE!
Man, you go away for a few days due to work and whatnot and I come back to a thread doubled in size! :) That said, I made it to the Papal Mass yesterday in DC and had a wonderful time. I woke up at 3:45 to get ready and catch the bus at 5am. My friend Henry and I were going to get some breakfast before the Mass and he needed to go to confession prior. Having not officially been received yet I couldn't participate fully, but it was truly heartwarming to see the long lines of people waiting to partake in the sacrament of reconciliation. I was moved and thought of the words of Our Lord, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." It was amazing to realize that though the were looking at a priest, in reality it was Our Lord Himself who was offering them His forgiveness. :)
I soon found Henry and he was joyful. We headed in and found our seats after grabbing some coffee and muffins. We were among the first to the section and just enjoyed the view. Soon it started filling up. We could see the clergy arriving on the field and finding their seats. And all around us were people coming in, young and old and representing any sort of ethnic group you could think of. :) I remarked to Henry about this being a prime example of how catholic this gathering was. We were soon joined by a young man named Ritch, dressed in a fine cassock. It turns out Ritch was nearing the end of his seminary life. He is to be ordained a deacon in May, and then God willing, will be ordained as a priest in November. He was VERY happy and surprised to hear that we were both Byzantine rite Catholics like himself. So we quickly started became fast friends. :)
As time progressed, the sun started to shine brightly on us, and the seats near us where filled with a wide variety of families, religious types (I saw quite a few Franciscans and Dominicans), and regular lay people. :) I met a few Ukranian Catholic nuns who were ecstatic to see the Pope, and several sisters of a wide variety of orders. (The IVE nuns I think have the nicest habits though). Finally though, the Pope arrived. It was really something wonderful to hear the swell of noise grow as he drove around in the pope mobile. Shouts of "Viva el Papa!" and "Benedicto!" came out. :) Then it was off for him to get vested for the Mass. The Mass itself was amazing. Hearing 46,000 people reciting the Lord's Prayer at once in joyful praise of the Lord simply is amazing. And his homily was spectacular, he even addressed the sexual abuse cases directly. (And he also met with some of the victims in private to talk with them and hear their stories). I am ever so grateful to the Lord for giving me the opportunity to hear the one He chose as successor to Peter in person. It takes my breath away at times to realize how much closer to Christ I come through the words of Benedict. I find myself seeing the Lord in a new and clearer fashion and am drawn ever closer to Him. Indeed, through the wonderful guidance of this humble man I feel ever closer to the Lord Jesus.
Glory to you Lord Jesus Christ!
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/18/2008 9:53:42 PM
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Lurker
Posts: 732
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Silver Spring, MD
Status: offline
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I also have pics to upload at some point. It's been a very exhausting but wonderful past two days. :)
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Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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