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Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited?
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Total Votes : 64
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(last vote on : 4/24/2008 5:00:34 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/3/2008 4:16:39 AM
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caoimhin
Posts: 115
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I've been a fan of this pope since his message after the passing of JPII, critiquing postmodern relativism. He has the courage to say controversial things, although (unlike some) he doesn't deliberately court controversy. Although not Catholic myself, I see the man as a theologian and philosopher with much to say in relating Christianity to our day. Where American evangelicalism is often reactionary and therefore behind the curve, Benedict is clearly ahead of it.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/3/2008 8:48:06 AM
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WesP
Posts: 1761
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From: Where God needs me to be
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quote:
He has the courage to say controversial things, although (unlike some) he doesn't deliberately court controversy.
While he doesn't court controversy, he ends up distorting the truth and misguiding people. Christians cannot sway in their dedication to God regardless of the cost. We don't run in the face of persecution, and we don't tell lies about what is necessary for salvation. We don't disregard dialogue about salvic doctrines just so that we can avoid controversy. But...
After review by Pope Benedict's congregation, U.S. Father Charles Curran, who questioned church teaching against artificial birth control, was removed from his teaching position at The Catholic University of America in Washington in 1987. Earlier this year, Pope Benedict made a similar judgment about Jesuit Father Roger Haight, who was banned from teaching Catholic theology over his book touching on the divinity and salvific mediation of Jesus.
The pope also has focused on ordinary Catholics, saying there can be no compromise on dissent by the lay faithful. He helped prepare a papal instruction on the subject in 1998 and accompanied it with his own commentary warning Catholics they would put themselves outside the communion of the church if they reject its teachings on eight specific issues.
The same year, he issued a document on papal primacy -- a topic of intense ecumenical discussion -- saying that, as a matter of faith, only the pope has the authority to make changes in his universal ministry.
The pontiff warned that the world risked exposure to "the darkness of a new barbarism," and stressed that Muslim leaders must "guide Muslim believers and train them in the Islamic faith."
"Teaching is the vehicle through which ideas and convictions are transmitted. Words are highly influential in the education of the mind. You, therefore, have a great responsibility for the formation of the younger generation," the pontiff said.
< Message edited by WesSavedByGrace -- 4/3/2008 8:56:59 AM >
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
___________________________________
<--- BTW, this is the true function of corn! It is to help the oil industry and its functionaries, not detract from them! 
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/3/2008 9:39:44 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3274
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I didn't know the pope was coming until I saw this thread and I have to say I don't care in the least.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/3/2008 10:24:14 AM
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caoimhin
Posts: 115
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
The pontiff warned that the world risked exposure to "the darkness of a new barbarism," and stressed that Muslim leaders must "guide Muslim believers and train them in the Islamic faith."
I don't think he was teaching universalism, because that would be contrary to so many other things he has said and done. Since Benedict made this statement he has been under pressure from Muslim leaders worldwide to enter into dialogue. He is a subtle man. What I can imagine happening is something like this: he tells the Muslim leaders, "Since Islam does not in fact promote violence --right?-- then it is incumbent upon you to teach this correct understanding to your young people." Thus he avoids what to him is a more tangential issue --how Muslims want to be seen by non-Muslims-- so as to not be diverted from his main point: that Islamic terrorism needs to be stopped.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/3/2008 11:01:58 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 4613
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lurker
I think you may have misunderstood him. All Catholics believe that Protestants are fellow brothers in Christ.
No it is not hard to understand what his decrees were saying. He dissed Protestants, EOC, and anything not Catholic as not real.
Just Google "Pose Benedict Protestant" and read away.
You ask had we read anything by Benedict, Yes I have. and he just brings more division in the universal Church.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/3/2008 11:10:48 AM
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redeemedsaint
Posts: 522
Joined: 12/5/2005
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The pope is not a man of God and I'm not excited. Read about the history of the RCC.
_____________________________
Woody
Get off the track cause the freight train is coming - Coach Bobby Lee Duke from Facing the Giants
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/3/2008 11:56:28 AM
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Lurker
Posts: 731
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Silver Spring, MD
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lurker
I think you may have misunderstood him. All Catholics believe that Protestants are fellow brothers in Christ.
No it is not hard to understand what his decrees were saying. He dissed Protestants, EOC, and anything not Catholic as not real.
Just Google "Pose Benedict Protestant" and read away.
You ask had we read anything by Benedict, Yes I have. and he just brings more division in the universal Church.
Thanks
RC
Oh I have. I really do feel that he's quite simply being misquoted, or misunderstood. I've read quite a bit by him, various speeches, several books, his encyclicals, quite a few homilies, and I am constantly amazed at how much Benedict is in love with Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Consequently I too feel drawn closer to the Lord. :) It's wonderful and I'm really excited to see him. I'm sorry that you seem to think otherwise.
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/3/2008 11:57:38 AM
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Lurker
Posts: 731
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Silver Spring, MD
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: redeemedsaint
The pope is not a man of God and I'm not excited. Read about the history of the RCC.
Oh I did. That's how I went from being a Protestant to being Catholic. :)
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/3/2008 1:54:45 PM
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caoimhin
Posts: 115
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
How can you or anyone else substantiate telling someone to pursue eternal damnation? Teach the Islamic faith? What does that mean to you? Islam does not have the same god, so it is simply a veiled pursuit of satan.
I don't think that was his intent. Really, we're both just speculating because we don't have the full statement or the context. But if I'm right it wouldn't be that different from these statements from Jesus to the Pharisees:
Mark 2:16-17 (ESV) And the scribes of the Pharisees, when they saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
(Since these men were unbelievers, Jesus was obviously being facetious in referring to "the righteous.")
John 9:39-41 (ESV) Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind.” Some of the Pharisees near him heard these things, and said to him, “Are we also blind?” Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, ‘We see,’ your guilt remains.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/3/2008 2:05:22 PM
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WesP
Posts: 1761
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
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quote:
ORIGINAL: caoimhin
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
How can you or anyone else substantiate telling someone to pursue eternal damnation? Teach the Islamic faith? What does that mean to you? Islam does not have the same god, so it is simply a veiled pursuit of satan.
I don't think that was his intent. Really, we're both just speculating because we don't have the full statement or the context. But if I'm right it wouldn't be that different from these statements from Jesus to the Pharisees:
Mark 2:16-17 (ESV) And the scribes of the Pharisees, when they saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
(Since these men were unbelievers, Jesus was obviously being facetious in referring to "the righteous.")
John 9:39-41 (ESV) Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind.” Some of the Pharisees near him heard these things, and said to him, “Are we also blind?” Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, ‘We see,’ your guilt remains.
What is it about Catholic statements that they cannot be understood like any other English sentence? The pope said that the Islamic leaders should "guide Muslim believers and train them in the Islamic faith." There is no excuse for a Christian to tell someone to follow another faith. None! I am not speculating. I can read and comprehend what I have read.
Next, you compare the pope to Jesus Christ and in a totally different context. What validity is in that? Jesus ate with sinners and brought them the gospel. He did not tell murderers, thieves, etc. to follow another religion.
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
___________________________________
<--- BTW, this is the true function of corn! It is to help the oil industry and its functionaries, not detract from them!
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/3/2008 2:55:08 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 802
Joined: 7/31/2007
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quote:
What is it about Catholic statements that they cannot be understood like any other English sentence?
*sings the old Steve Taylor song "I am the English interpreter of English"*
I am curious about what specifically in Catholic history you read, Lurker, that caused your conversion. I have to admit a little hostility on my part toward Catholicism due to my upbringing (I'm working on that). Mostly because my grandmother was quite literally stoned (had rocks thrown at her causing injuries) by her classmates as an 8 year old child because her family had been excommunicated by the local drunkard-priest for suggesting that some of the money in the coffers could be used to help the people starving in their community during the Great Depression rather than being sent to the Vatican and lining the priest's own pockets. When I read the history of the Catholic church, many of the Popes got into office via bribery and political machinations. One was the illegitimate son of another Pope. Many of them appointed their teenage grandsons as Cardinals. One was a teenager himself (18) and turned the Vatican into a brothel. Many of the Popes were very, very immoral people and frankly I think Peter would have been horrified to hear them claim to be his successor. If you want a list there's an interesting one at http://us.geocities.com/paulntobin/papacy.html, though I disagree with some of the views presented there. There's also interesting info at http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1691450,00.html
Frankly, I think I prefer to stick with Jesus as my only Priest, read the Bible myself, reject traditions that are not Biblically based, and skip Purgatory entirely.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/3/2008 3:37:22 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3348
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
I for one am highly excited that Pope Benedict is coming to America this month. In fact, I might be getting tickets to go see his Papal mass in DC. That said, I'm curious how others feel.
Well then, I'd have to say I'm excited that you're excited and I hope you have a wonderful time!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
I weep for those who won't experience this because they have been deceived.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/3/2008 6:11:58 PM
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rnershigh
Posts: 1760
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: DC metro area
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When I heard he was visiting DC the first thing in my mind was, "Well, better not go into DC that day as metro and traffic will be a mess"  .
_____________________________
O Grave! where is thy Victory?
O Death! where is thy Sting?
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/5/2008 8:38:50 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1622
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CatholicCritter
This man is one of the greatest Christian theologians of our generation and I believe Protestants are worse for not having read his stuff.
It's never been about 'idolization' and it never will be. Read 'Jesus of Nazareth' and you'll learn a lot. Whether you believe he is the universal shepherd of Christ's Church on Earth or not, do yourselves a favor and explore this man's writings on God.
Greetings,
quote:
Read 'Jesus of Nazareth' and you'll learn a lot.
I'll read it and worship this man….only on one condition…That any representation of the image of Jesus as a dead corpse still hanging on the cross…. is removed,
Otherwise this man's writings on God… as you said,
The spirit of this man's writings on God is nothing I personally would want to read ….
But I am excited…. because it follows the same pattern here…
So I suppose the pope will be going to world trade towers…. much like his counter part from Iran wanted to…
…..So as to lay a reef over a dead economy.
http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/2006/07/why_islam_canno.html
It looks like Islam visited Emperor Constantine first, then the RCC made Constantine a Saint, because of what it written here below in bold
Christianity is evangelical, but its founders were building a religion of peaceful and voluntary association, and Emperor Constantine's fateful decision watered that mission down considerably . (But not completely.)
Then the RCC made Him a Saint, because Christianity "is evangelical",
Catholicism and Islam have co existed for centuries, and their worship is one in the same….so they made Constantine a Saint because he watered down the missions of the Christian evangelicals.
Much as we see going on today!
And in like manner they will most likely give sainthood to that which is called the AC, to the one who overcomes Christian evangelicals,
Original Islam represented the mindset of all imperialists of that time: outsiders are to be conquered or killed, and all who have been conquered must subscribe to the state religion. I cannot see how Islam can embrace pluralistic society and remain Islam
There is nothing is new under the sun!!,
Merging of the Catholic Churches in America has already begun in certain areas….
Catholicism is set on watering down the missions of the Christian evangelicals, as it has overseas for many years…..and now in America, by the same merging influences Islam gave to Saint Constantine.....
The pope’s visit is just checking up on his investments
But I am excited..... because of the prophecy that is written in the Book, concerning just such a thing.
Loyal Gypsy
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/5/2008 8:45:18 PM
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Yoelnatan780
Posts: 149
Joined: 12/18/2007
Status: offline
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I have a high church background but am not catholic, and do not know much about this present Pope..but it is really something when a pope comes to the states..I do respect the position of pope and it's history history
_____________________________
elôi elôi lama sabachthani o estin methermçneuomenon o theos mou o theos mou eis ti enkatelipes me
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/5/2008 10:18:31 PM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1661
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: redeemedsaint
The pope is not a man of God
Well i am honored that a you have graced us with your knowledge of what lies in the hearts of another. You must be a very special person to be granted that ability since it says in the Bible that we can not know the hearts of others.
_____________________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Engineers believe that "if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
features yet
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/6/2008 10:39:10 AM
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Yoelnatan780
Posts: 149
Joined: 12/18/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EverLearning
quote:
ORIGINAL: redeemedsaint
The pope is not a man of God
Well i am honored that a you have graced us with your knowledge of what lies in the hearts of another. You must be a very special person to be granted that ability since it says in the Bible that we can not know the hearts of others.
I feel ya...I am not even catholic but love and understand liturgical worship and am labeled a heretic because of it..I am so sick of itI cannot even mention church history saints, or the pope in any of my fellowships with out getting shunned
_____________________________
elôi elôi lama sabachthani o estin methermçneuomenon o theos mou o theos mou eis ti enkatelipes me
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/6/2008 9:18:05 PM
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Lurker
Posts: 731
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Silver Spring, MD
Status: offline
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I'm going! I got a ticket to see the Papal Mass! :D
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/6/2008 9:37:29 PM
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Lurker
Posts: 731
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Silver Spring, MD
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
quote:
What is it about Catholic statements that they cannot be understood like any other English sentence?
*sings the old Steve Taylor song "I am the English interpreter of English"*
I am curious about what specifically in Catholic history you read, Lurker, that caused your conversion. I have to admit a little hostility on my part toward Catholicism due to my upbringing (I'm working on that). Mostly because my grandmother was quite literally stoned (had rocks thrown at her causing injuries) by her classmates as an 8 year old child because her family had been excommunicated by the local drunkard-priest for suggesting that some of the money in the coffers could be used to help the people starving in their community during the Great Depression rather than being sent to the Vatican and lining the priest's own pockets. When I read the history of the Catholic church, many of the Popes got into office via bribery and political machinations. One was the illegitimate son of another Pope. Many of them appointed their teenage grandsons as Cardinals. One was a teenager himself (18) and turned the Vatican into a brothel. Many of the Popes were very, very immoral people and frankly I think Peter would have been horrified to hear them claim to be his successor. If you want a list there's an interesting one at http://us.geocities.com/paulntobin/papacy.html, though I disagree with some of the views presented there. There's also interesting info at http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1691450,00.html
Frankly, I think I prefer to stick with Jesus as my only Priest, read the Bible myself, reject traditions that are not Biblically based, and skip Purgatory entirely.
Well, for me it started when I tried to save a friend from "Romanism." Unfortunately (or rather fortunately) my friend pointed out that I was fighting a version of Catholicism that existed only in the fevered imagination of Jack Chick, Lorraine Boettner and others. But that the REAL Catholic faith was quite different from what I thought it was. They had quite a few strong arguments that blew my feeble attempts out of the water. I didn't decide then, but I realized that perhaps I could consider Catholics Christians. The final step to really deciding to become Catholic came about when I learned about a little man from Assisi named Francis. Suffice it to say, his example of staying faithful to the Church, and his shining devotion to living in the imitation of Christ moved me more than thousands of pages of academic and historical works. While those do help me reaffirm my choice to become Catholic, it was St. Francis of Assisi who by taking the words of Our Lord to heart, helped me realize that I had to become a member of the Church that had brought him forth into the world.
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/6/2008 9:45:54 PM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1661
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lurker
Well, for me it started when I tried to save a friend from "Romanism." Unfortunately (or rather fortunately) my friend pointed out that I was fighting a version of Catholicism that existed only in the fevered imagination of Jack Chick, Lorraine Boettner and others. But that the REAL Catholic faith was quite different from what I thought it was. They had quite a few strong arguments that blew my feeble attempts out of the water. I didn't decide then, but I realized that perhaps I could consider Catholics Christians. The final step to really deciding to become Catholic came about when I learned about a little man from Assisi named Francis. Suffice it to say, his example of staying faithful to the Church, and his shining devotion to living in the imitation of Christ moved me more than thousands of pages of academic and historical works. While those do help me reaffirm my choice to become Catholic, it was St. Francis of Assisi who by taking the words of Our Lord to heart, helped me realize that I had to become a member of the Church that had brought him forth into the world.
Lurker,
Thank you for sharing with us. Before I decided to come back to Church i worked at a hopital run by FMOL and to see the way the Francisscan Nuns shone the light of Christ in the way they ministered to the sick and dying touched my heart.
_____________________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Engineers believe that "if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
features yet
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/7/2008 12:32:00 AM
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Zhi
Posts: 802
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: offline
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I'm sure there are many wonderful and caring Catholics, and many who are true Christians (don't take that personally, not all Protestants are true Christians either), however, that does not mean that I should accept all the doctrine of the Catholic church, any more than the fact that I know many wonderful Mormons means that I should become LDS. There are plenty of truly wonderful Protestants out there on the mission field and working in hospitals as well.
Reading the Bible for myself makes it pretty obvious that there are many things wrong with the Catholic church, such as the idolization of Mary and "saints", the concept of Purgatory, the requirement of a priest for making confession, and not allowing priests to marry, just to name a few.
So, again, I have trouble caring much about a guy who was quite literally a nazi at one point in his life, who has told me that my church is completely invalid, and who is only the next person bearing a title that has belonged to people of seriously dubious moral character.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/7/2008 6:53:59 AM
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Lurker
Posts: 731
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Silver Spring, MD
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
I'm sure there are many wonderful and caring Catholics, and many who are true Christians (don't take that personally, not all Protestants are true Christians either), however, that does not mean that I should accept all the doctrine of the Catholic church, any more than the fact that I know many wonderful Mormons means that I should become LDS. There are plenty of truly wonderful Protestants out there on the mission field and working in hospitals as well.
True, but there's something different about Francis. Hard to explain. And I do think that the Reverend Billy Graham is a shining example of a Protestant saint. But seeing the example of Francis, and the thousands of other saints doing similar things is powerful.
quote:
Reading the Bible for myself makes it pretty obvious that there are many things wrong with the Catholic church, such as the idolization of Mary and "saints", the concept of Purgatory, the requirement of a priest for making confession, and not allowing priests to marry, just to name a few.
I know several married priests. That's not a 100% rule, it's a discipline and can be changed. But I think it's a good rule and it has plenty of scriptural precedent. After all, was Jesus married? Or Paul? There's actually considerable scriptural support for all the other questions you have. Most of which we have one stop threads for. You might want to check them out. Even if you don't agree with the Catholic interpretation, you might see that we're not just pulling things out of thin air. :)
quote:
So, again, I have trouble caring much about a guy who was quite literally a nazi at one point in his life, who has told me that my church is completely invalid, and who is only the next person bearing a title that has belonged to people of seriously dubious moral character.
He didn't have much choice with being a member of the Hitler youth. And he didn't care much for being drafted either but again, he didn't have a choice. As far as being invalid, you must understand what we Catholics and Orthodox believe regarding the term "Church". We hold the Eucharist to be the center of Christian worship. After all, we believe the Eucharist to be the literal Body and Blood of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus. (There's a one stop thread going over this too btw). Unfortunately, due to human failings, Christianity is not united anymore. And many communities of Christians don't believe the Eucharist to be the literal presence of Jesus. But we still recognize them as our beloved brothers in Christ, and we see that the Holy Spirit is indeed moving through them and we rejoice in their fervor and devotion to Jesus. But without the Eucharist, we feel that they're incomplete. I don't know if I'd personally use the word invalid, looking back in my past I don't think my old churches | | |
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